Aa
Detoxing, dealing with setbacks...........help!!!!
Hey guys, I had a minor set back over the holidays, I took 40mg of oxycontin last night, the good news is, I felt awful(mentally), I was so upset at myself. I was with my girlfriend and I was so mad that I I felt like I needed to get fu... up to be there. I completely regret it, It was just another sign that I know I'm done with these things. It was weird, it was like I was an addict all over again, like I had to depend on going to get some before I saw her, WHAT AN AWFUL FEELING, I can't tell you guys how incredible it is to be able to do what you want whenever you want Anyway, I have restless leg today and I have to work, but I can make it through, I know I can, my question is, how long do you think I will feel this restless leg?? I don't know if I have any other wd symptoms cause I have bronchitis and an ear infection so I'm very out of it. Well, I have to get going, but this was just a minor setback, I don't want anyone to think that I"m going back to using because I"m not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I hope all is well, keep your head up!!
gwh
I hope all is well, keep your head up!!
gwh
You are responding to a seven year old post (2001!) You need to post somewhere else.
My husband is addicted to Oyy. He has lost everything we have, including our house, and owes money that he borrowed to my kids. He is a wonderful guy, and I love him, or else I would be gone, and also because he said if I left he would kill himself. He has been on suboxone, but seems to keep going back to Oxy, even while he has suboxone. His suboxone doctor released him because he missed appointments???? I don't even knon when he tells me the truth anymore, I don't trust him. He had cancer twice, at the age of 23 and again at 26. He had been off drugs since then, but 2 years ago, I got cancer, and he started taking my pain meds. I didn't know he was because I didn't take them at all, they made me sicker. I feel that it is my fault he got addicted because I should have been paying more attention to what was going on, but I never thought about the pain meds. I was worried my cancer would bring back bad memories for him, but he seemed fine, and was very helpful to me. My question is how do I help him? We have not been married very long (second for both of us.} but I can't walk away. My kids are grown, and don't live at home anymore, and we are both in our forties. Our lives could be easy, and carefree, well sort of, I just found out I am sick, but I am not telling him. I found another doctor for him to go to, but how do I keep him from going back to Oxy? Should we both take a week off from work and get him to go cold turkey? I need help from someone who has been there.
Thanks, and God Bless All of You,
CS
Thanks, and God Bless All of You,
CS
Yeah its called chlortrimetron...there is a 4 hr/a 6 hr/8 hr and 12 hr...time released...it helps you stay running on a hell day..but still waithdrawl just knocks you down HARD.
I wanted to add something to this thread and a few other threads.Just when I thought I would be stuck on hydrocodone for life? My post deppresion is what held me back the most,and I do have some depressing stuff going on,but I asked myself? So other people deal with this and they dont lay down and die over it even though you want to when you have someone dying on ya).So I go to my psyche two weeks ago( psyches only prescribe drugs and work with brain chems) They dont do talk therapy about what a shitty childhood you had which if you are a drug usuer it is likely there is something to that,but when you use drugs you alter your brain chems drastically and deplete your feel good hormones.So I've been on serzone (SSRI)for 2 weeks and I feel like I can finally kick this monster of hydrocodone without all the mental drama I was experiencing post and during withdrawls.So yesterday I hear my sisters first boyfriend dies of unknown causes? They think the hospital screwed up.The truth of it is this: He was a body builder and all looked A-ok from the exterior.Lo and behold..the guy and his wife are strung on Oxycontin...Ah good ole OXY...better than hydro but the wife has a felony conviction for faking scripts,and I think they both turned to internet docs for hydro for the last two years.So he finally wants off drugs and wants to get clean,wants to fix some old broken body parts/goes to outpatient to get his bursitus in his shoulder tweaked,and his wife who is still current addict and using tells docs NO PAIN MEDS,he is a recovering addict,so of course he wakes up in severe pain after procedure because after you abuse opiates your pain receptors are NOW set on HIGH...like anything as little as stubbing your toe is a BIG ouchee! Pain tolerance is low guys.So when he wakes up in pain this dingy bzatch gives him 5 or so valium to sleep..He OD's they run him to the ER while he is passed out pumping his stomach the whole way there..since the wifey is stoned outta her mind on Oxy still and has felony she wont say **** to paramedics as to what he is taking,much less that SHE gave it to him ya know,so they dont know what he took ...turns out they pump him and give him gastric lavage treatments to clean him out..you know? like enemas and that sort of thing so he can survive the OD situation....well when you abuse opiates long enough many times you have an intestinal block because they constipate ya,the colon shuts down after time and many times can and will become an ER situation...so he had a hidden intestinal block and all of this rapid cleansing literally dumped so many toxins in his body he died,in spite of them trying to remove his colon surgically once they discovered that was the problem...he was 32.And he is dead.
32 man....no one is invincible to the hidden dangers of these drugs we take so freely.
I think that is what is finally hitting me...that you can and will die if you use hydro long enough...will you OD? not usually because we spend our days and BEST efforts titrating our buzzes so perfectly and have opiate tolerances like horses..so doubtful you'll OD/unless you use street Heroin and then **** you never know what dose is in the next bag so good luck every shoot its a maybe this time baby?...but the old intestine thing...forgot about that problem.
My mother tells me there is a woman who has been in intractable pain and has been for years.Medical Morphine addict...long before Morphine she did Oxy and hyrdro/had verifiable scripts for it...her colon shut down @ 50 yrs old..she is now an older woman of her years in a Nursing home and has had a colostomy bag for 15 years to deal with because of drug damage to her intestines.
This is something that does make me feel not so invincible anymore.I walk by my stash and I dont want to take another pill as long I live...my bones hurt my life is shot my house is a wreck..my career and marriage will soon be shot if I keep using..it is true..death institutions or jail...thats the end of the road unless you get sober...
Im just even hoping that I can fix all the damage that has been done in my 5 years of using.My body is tired my life is tired and my soul is tired...it is no longer a one way ticket...its gonna be one day at a time man...I'm kicking this **** once and for all.OVER IT!
I think I realize now how selfish it is to take drugs..everyday a part of you dies and your family loses you to drugs....its a slow suicide and not cool to the ones left to bury you over it.
everytime I look at that dope Im gonna think about that kid...and what happens when you use...where it leads,,,its nowheresville...just leads no where but down.
Get help get off and get clean...not worth it..its just not worth it...Life on a colostomy bag...not fun..not worth the high ever.Its my first day ,not using dope first thing outta bed and hitting the floor with a stone cold buzz on hydro to make it through another walking dead day..and I feel a new awakening to what I am really doing by using...killing myself.It will kill you.but we all feel so invincible by drugs as they take away every ache pain etc etc... When you dump it?... your body will tell you what is wrong...it hurts and it hurts for a reason ...the body hates drug abuse?
It is dying you just dont feel it on drugs and the denial is HUGE.
Addicted part just takes you down and you are along for the ride like the walking dead on drugs..what a bizzarre phenomena...dying and cant even tell?
Poppies are evil ****.
dee*
I wanted to add something to this thread and a few other threads.Just when I thought I would be stuck on hydrocodone for life? My post deppresion is what held me back the most,and I do have some depressing stuff going on,but I asked myself? So other people deal with this and they dont lay down and die over it even though you want to when you have someone dying on ya).So I go to my psyche two weeks ago( psyches only prescribe drugs and work with brain chems) They dont do talk therapy about what a shitty childhood you had which if you are a drug usuer it is likely there is something to that,but when you use drugs you alter your brain chems drastically and deplete your feel good hormones.So I've been on serzone (SSRI)for 2 weeks and I feel like I can finally kick this monster of hydrocodone without all the mental drama I was experiencing post and during withdrawls.So yesterday I hear my sisters first boyfriend dies of unknown causes? They think the hospital screwed up.The truth of it is this: He was a body builder and all looked A-ok from the exterior.Lo and behold..the guy and his wife are strung on Oxycontin...Ah good ole OXY...better than hydro but the wife has a felony conviction for faking scripts,and I think they both turned to internet docs for hydro for the last two years.So he finally wants off drugs and wants to get clean,wants to fix some old broken body parts/goes to outpatient to get his bursitus in his shoulder tweaked,and his wife who is still current addict and using tells docs NO PAIN MEDS,he is a recovering addict,so of course he wakes up in severe pain after procedure because after you abuse opiates your pain receptors are NOW set on HIGH...like anything as little as stubbing your toe is a BIG ouchee! Pain tolerance is low guys.So when he wakes up in pain this dingy bzatch gives him 5 or so valium to sleep..He OD's they run him to the ER while he is passed out pumping his stomach the whole way there..since the wifey is stoned outta her mind on Oxy still and has felony she wont say **** to paramedics as to what he is taking,much less that SHE gave it to him ya know,so they dont know what he took ...turns out they pump him and give him gastric lavage treatments to clean him out..you know? like enemas and that sort of thing so he can survive the OD situation....well when you abuse opiates long enough many times you have an intestinal block because they constipate ya,the colon shuts down after time and many times can and will become an ER situation...so he had a hidden intestinal block and all of this rapid cleansing literally dumped so many toxins in his body he died,in spite of them trying to remove his colon surgically once they discovered that was the problem...he was 32.And he is dead.
32 man....no one is invincible to the hidden dangers of these drugs we take so freely.
I think that is what is finally hitting me...that you can and will die if you use hydro long enough...will you OD? not usually because we spend our days and BEST efforts titrating our buzzes so perfectly and have opiate tolerances like horses..so doubtful you'll OD/unless you use street Heroin and then **** you never know what dose is in the next bag so good luck every shoot its a maybe this time baby?...but the old intestine thing...forgot about that problem.
My mother tells me there is a woman who has been in intractable pain and has been for years.Medical Morphine addict...long before Morphine she did Oxy and hyrdro/had verifiable scripts for it...her colon shut down @ 50 yrs old..she is now an older woman of her years in a Nursing home and has had a colostomy bag for 15 years to deal with because of drug damage to her intestines.
This is something that does make me feel not so invincible anymore.I walk by my stash and I dont want to take another pill as long I live...my bones hurt my life is shot my house is a wreck..my career and marriage will soon be shot if I keep using..it is true..death institutions or jail...thats the end of the road unless you get sober...
Im just even hoping that I can fix all the damage that has been done in my 5 years of using.My body is tired my life is tired and my soul is tired...it is no longer a one way ticket...its gonna be one day at a time man...I'm kicking this **** once and for all.OVER IT!
I think I realize now how selfish it is to take drugs..everyday a part of you dies and your family loses you to drugs....its a slow suicide and not cool to the ones left to bury you over it.
everytime I look at that dope Im gonna think about that kid...and what happens when you use...where it leads,,,its nowheresville...just leads no where but down.
Get help get off and get clean...not worth it..its just not worth it...Life on a colostomy bag...not fun..not worth the high ever.Its my first day ,not using dope first thing outta bed and hitting the floor with a stone cold buzz on hydro to make it through another walking dead day..and I feel a new awakening to what I am really doing by using...killing myself.It will kill you.but we all feel so invincible by drugs as they take away every ache pain etc etc... When you dump it?... your body will tell you what is wrong...it hurts and it hurts for a reason ...the body hates drug abuse?
It is dying you just dont feel it on drugs and the denial is HUGE.
Addicted part just takes you down and you are along for the ride like the walking dead on drugs..what a bizzarre phenomena...dying and cant even tell?
Poppies are evil ****.
dee*
Is the antihistimine you mentioned sold over the counter? It never occured to me to try something that is designed to actually help with the watery eyes and nose stuff, too simple for me to figure out. Anyway, what's the scoop on which ones work and which don't. I really like your posts so stick around, love, Telby
Well being retoxed for the 500th time I know I dont have much to offer for staying detoxed,but as far as detoxing and its insidiuos symptoms of withdrawl I will give the info that helped me through the worst of it.Day 10 is the magic number to really be clean BTW...10 days no more no less as far as acute symptoms of HELL and satan beating on your door to come in for a visit..
I posted on another thread of what does help me and if I stick to it it works....but its the pain of life that gets me retoxed.. I guess that is why everyone here turns back to their old friend of "the dope"Life most times is kinda shitty at times and its the pain of it that is hard to avoid clean when you know a pill will put you on an "I dont give a damn" level.
For energy and care of the ailing body?...aside from bathing and eating( geez those are hard ones for some reason when you are using) its like your body needs nothing and you feel nothing while actively using drugs hence the use of drugs to escape pain of life and life is painful and is full of major probs that will awlays tempt the addict
But antihistamines help me a lot in detox the first week for energy
Chlortimetron time relaeased OTC works for energy daytime and kills of the histamine dump that opiate withdrawl sets in ( runny nose and feeling basically sick like flu symptoms?
and then benedryl for sleep ( benzos work beautifullly but they are dangerous to kick without taper so use with caution if you have em and DONT do benedryl and benzos..you might not wake up.they potentiate each other a bit too well.
And Immodium AD helps with the cravings as it is an opiate agonsist9 antagonist i get em mixed up but acts on the dopamine receptor like opiates and has a little boost for the brain),,and works pretty decently on the wds and vomitus diarreahitis...really man it helps a bunch.The chewable or the liquid all work the same and all OTC...good thing there.
And actually my accupuncturist helped speed up my body getting rid of all the poisons in my liver from tylenol..blech..but its pricey and at 30 detoxed attempts ..hell I cant use her everytime so I am trying hypnotherapy today from an expert in heroin addiction and resetting your brain and cravings etc...its the smoking man that will kill me...if I take a pill I immediately need a pack of ciggs...more dopamine brain says..more more more! Nictotine potentiates the dope quite well unfortunately so they go hand in hand for me/if I kick dope I kick ciggs but never one or the other alone..Its Just never enough to satisfy an opiated brain recpetor that has been tampered with ya know?
Ill let everyone know how the hypno attempt goes...did NA..that was f.up and there was not one person I would even consider for a sponser in that crazy bunch...plus being a woman they really work that 13th step a lot in there...they try to cruise ya and hit on you..if you have any attractiveness left and are a new addict/you just get cruised ?...so the support i was offered had ill intent to it ... so that NA stuff no workie for me really and honestly.
There was something to it though as far as when you go? you realize your life is not THAT bad...man I have seen some people take their life to a pretty shitty level so I do leave there feeling like ,Damn! life can always be WORSE! So if just for that I may keep going back...but its not the total answer for me.
Stay tuned...and BTW?.. a GREAT BOOK...and a good read for any addict to any dope of any kind..."Quitting drugs for Good" its very inspirational and had some good info in it for me? Just wanted to share..maybe it will do the trick for someone..hell maybe even me?
Ill keep reading coming back and let you know on this hypno deal?
take care...Dee*
I posted on another thread of what does help me and if I stick to it it works....but its the pain of life that gets me retoxed.. I guess that is why everyone here turns back to their old friend of "the dope"Life most times is kinda shitty at times and its the pain of it that is hard to avoid clean when you know a pill will put you on an "I dont give a damn" level.
For energy and care of the ailing body?...aside from bathing and eating( geez those are hard ones for some reason when you are using) its like your body needs nothing and you feel nothing while actively using drugs hence the use of drugs to escape pain of life and life is painful and is full of major probs that will awlays tempt the addict
But antihistamines help me a lot in detox the first week for energy
Chlortimetron time relaeased OTC works for energy daytime and kills of the histamine dump that opiate withdrawl sets in ( runny nose and feeling basically sick like flu symptoms?
and then benedryl for sleep ( benzos work beautifullly but they are dangerous to kick without taper so use with caution if you have em and DONT do benedryl and benzos..you might not wake up.they potentiate each other a bit too well.
And Immodium AD helps with the cravings as it is an opiate agonsist9 antagonist i get em mixed up but acts on the dopamine receptor like opiates and has a little boost for the brain),,and works pretty decently on the wds and vomitus diarreahitis...really man it helps a bunch.The chewable or the liquid all work the same and all OTC...good thing there.
And actually my accupuncturist helped speed up my body getting rid of all the poisons in my liver from tylenol..blech..but its pricey and at 30 detoxed attempts ..hell I cant use her everytime so I am trying hypnotherapy today from an expert in heroin addiction and resetting your brain and cravings etc...its the smoking man that will kill me...if I take a pill I immediately need a pack of ciggs...more dopamine brain says..more more more! Nictotine potentiates the dope quite well unfortunately so they go hand in hand for me/if I kick dope I kick ciggs but never one or the other alone..Its Just never enough to satisfy an opiated brain recpetor that has been tampered with ya know?
Ill let everyone know how the hypno attempt goes...did NA..that was f.up and there was not one person I would even consider for a sponser in that crazy bunch...plus being a woman they really work that 13th step a lot in there...they try to cruise ya and hit on you..if you have any attractiveness left and are a new addict/you just get cruised ?...so the support i was offered had ill intent to it ... so that NA stuff no workie for me really and honestly.
There was something to it though as far as when you go? you realize your life is not THAT bad...man I have seen some people take their life to a pretty shitty level so I do leave there feeling like ,Damn! life can always be WORSE! So if just for that I may keep going back...but its not the total answer for me.
Stay tuned...and BTW?.. a GREAT BOOK...and a good read for any addict to any dope of any kind..."Quitting drugs for Good" its very inspirational and had some good info in it for me? Just wanted to share..maybe it will do the trick for someone..hell maybe even me?
Ill keep reading coming back and let you know on this hypno deal?
take care...Dee*
still watchin telby, gut it out. your friend hjp
First day of detox, woke up and got hit with sickness big time. I amd determined to do it this time, I have no benzo's or other meds so it's the real deal. Got one whole day behind me - my second day is always very hard so send me good thoughts the next 24 hours. I'm not letting myself be afraid, I am fearless. love telby
You are invincible! Keep goin Telby,, send me some of your pain. your friend, hjp
Today was awful, my second and third days are always the worst. I had dry heaves all day which I have not had before. The withdrawals get worse every time which is what I need to remember. I am still hanging in there, taking my vitamins and keeping my mind from wandering into dangerous territory. I am very sick but very determined to see his through and get my life back. Your the best hjp and I thank you for your help, love, telby
telby, where are you"? waiting to hear.......hjp
Alright flattery will get you anything with me. I will first finally go to bed and shoot for a good night sleep and then I will pick myself up and try this again. Just think how impossible I'll be if I ever do succeed? I'll really be telling everyone what they should do. Really, thank you for the attention it is just what i needed tonight. It ain't over til its over and there seems to be no easy or soft way to get there. love, Telby
come on telby, you're my hero. I've read everything you've written on this site. You're a smart girl, and a logical thinker, so figure out a detox method that'll work for you. Make it complicated if you have to, just follow it. Question is when you're sober where are you? Lots of pain? Bad marriage? Bad job...What is it? Stay tough....we're all praying for you. hjp
I can't seem to get on the other board so I was just re-reading through the posts and there to my surprise was your sweet message. I can't tell you what a delight it was to see it, definatly the nicest thing that anyone has said to me today. I have been feeling very discouraged and hopeless as I blew another detox attempt and now Im back to square one or minus one really. This oxycontin problem has truely gotten the best of me as no other problem has, I am usually optimistic regardless of what crisis befalls me but this thing has gotten the best of me. So thank you for your kind words, and remember knowing what to do and doing it are sometimes many miles apart. They say we get what we need and tonight, I needed you and poof there you were. Thank you, love, Telby
I wanted to tell you, that there are several things that you wrote recently that I have printed out and hung on my bulletin board, so that I could read and re-read them every time I want to use. Your words have helped me gather the courage to do the right thing.
littleguy
littleguy
Hello everyone, this is my first time on this site, and I am glad there are places like this for people to go, and be with people that don't judge them. My first comment is to Kerryfine. there is always temptation, it is how you deal with it that makes or breaks the situation. It sounds like your making it; good luck, and best wishes. My next comment is for the skipper. Man do I feel your pain. The lack of not being able to sleep is what kills me. I have the RLS or (Restless Legs Syndrom), and boy is it fun. When I try to go to bed, my legs start to do the cha-cha, and the Waltz, all by themselves. I never noticed my legs so much, until I started this de-tox. I am on my forth day; cold turkey, which is the only way I can do it. I cant taper down; its all or nothing. Usually all!!! To your answer about the sleeping, it is different for each individual person, based on how much you were taking, body fat, etc.... But know one thing, it doesnt last forever, and that is all that matters. It does go away and the sun does shine again. I wish all who read this a blessed new year; drug free I hope.
Hey!:
forgot to tell ya, i shaved for the first time since my last dose
of oxy. even without the beard i think i could send a shiver up
the spine of some god-fearing,pig's ass kisser of a paramacist out
there this morning...anybody up for fun at the poision shop today!
need all of you so
keep an angel on your shoulder
kip
forgot to tell ya, i shaved for the first time since my last dose
of oxy. even without the beard i think i could send a shiver up
the spine of some god-fearing,pig's ass kisser of a paramacist out
there this morning...anybody up for fun at the poision shop today!
need all of you so
keep an angel on your shoulder
kip
hey people:
day-5 oxy-free! painlevel +7
slept some last night without taking anything. My wife had gotten
some kavva kavva and valerin root to try out last night. fell a-
sleep before taking any! the bard part is i awoke at 2;30 am. have
been up and banging around the house waiting for daylight so i can
walk dog. i'm sure glad wife is out of town as she can't sleep when
i can't. anyhow i tried the valerian and kava kava. not much has
happened. so...drank 3 cups real strong coffee. why not i go see my regular md today...between day 5 stuff and all that coffee i should have my bp up enough to keep him entertained-any how this detox stuff isn't his business at this point. HEY WITCHY WOMAN when does sleep return to normal? i seem to remember you having this problem last summer.
can't (or shouldn't) take HTP5 as i take wellbutron. the first 3
nights i've been goofballing myself asleep with klonipam. kloniam
is supposed to be the safest of the benzo's...i'm not so sure of
that...the sooner a person shakes off the benzo's the beter.
know what? i don't think i've wished everyone a year of painless
growth, or at least growth and movement...clean or on the nod...
eyes bright or cancelled out like some old street peddler selling
brooms, talking honest or talking faster than an md...
best of the year and
keep an angel on your shoulder
kip
day-5 oxy-free! painlevel +7
slept some last night without taking anything. My wife had gotten
some kavva kavva and valerin root to try out last night. fell a-
sleep before taking any! the bard part is i awoke at 2;30 am. have
been up and banging around the house waiting for daylight so i can
walk dog. i'm sure glad wife is out of town as she can't sleep when
i can't. anyhow i tried the valerian and kava kava. not much has
happened. so...drank 3 cups real strong coffee. why not i go see my regular md today...between day 5 stuff and all that coffee i should have my bp up enough to keep him entertained-any how this detox stuff isn't his business at this point. HEY WITCHY WOMAN when does sleep return to normal? i seem to remember you having this problem last summer.
can't (or shouldn't) take HTP5 as i take wellbutron. the first 3
nights i've been goofballing myself asleep with klonipam. kloniam
is supposed to be the safest of the benzo's...i'm not so sure of
that...the sooner a person shakes off the benzo's the beter.
know what? i don't think i've wished everyone a year of painless
growth, or at least growth and movement...clean or on the nod...
eyes bright or cancelled out like some old street peddler selling
brooms, talking honest or talking faster than an md...
best of the year and
keep an angel on your shoulder
kip
Amazing how I get what I need. I was just thinking that I post too much. I'm not fishing for a compliment but I wonder if I'm not on the boards too much. I wonder if I sound like "little ms knowitall" I just really love the process of give and take and after not communicating with anyone for so long it feels really good to have something to say and to feel what others are saying. I guess I'm still pretty insecure because I worry alot that I have said something badly or that I put myself in everybody's face too much. Anyway, that was where my head was at and then I see this really sweet post from Skipper (truely my idol) and I again felt that great conection. So I POSTED AGAIN! Skipper, thank you for always knowing just the right thing to say. love, Telby
Telby:
was just rereading old posts and the one you sent to Seamtress and
Elvira (dec. 27) was one of the most outstanding description of what lies in the guts (and other visceral matter of every other addict) I have always felt on the outside looking in. (sort of like the song by the Hollys. this was before drugs, on drugs, recovery from drug, and back to using drugs.
anyhow keep up the good work , an insight on a day like this goes a
long,long way.
keep an angel on your sholder
kip
was just rereading old posts and the one you sent to Seamtress and
Elvira (dec. 27) was one of the most outstanding description of what lies in the guts (and other visceral matter of every other addict) I have always felt on the outside looking in. (sort of like the song by the Hollys. this was before drugs, on drugs, recovery from drug, and back to using drugs.
anyhow keep up the good work , an insight on a day like this goes a
long,long way.
keep an angel on your sholder
kip
Hi Girl, I wrote to you up at the top so hope you read it!!!
Bless you
I was wondering if you could contact me via email my addy is ***@**** I have found a wonderful site I think you might like. I saw that you feel no one here responds much to you an I feel really bad. I 'll give you the link to the site if you email me Elvira
Hello jbear, I want to wish you a happy new year. You have helped me alot. For some reason people don't really respond to me too much, but you have and I appreciate it.I have always felt kind of on the edge of things and your kind words have given me strength. I sincerely wish good things,peaceful moments and clear thoughts for you. I wonder if you could tell Wizard hello for me too? Thanks Audrey
I was thinking about Skipper and how even though he needs the meds, and deserves the meds, he still struggles with the effect they have on his life. The difference maybe between narcotics and heart medicine, or insuline is that they don't effect every area of ones life. In the old days we believed somewhat anyway that drugs brought people closer together, closer to inlightenment and spirituality. Found out the hard way that is not true, they often block us from those things and more. Become an obsticle in clearly seeing ourselves and our place in the world - in the ability to have true intimacy with others. So I take my hat off to Skipper, he is continuing to challange the role drugs play in his life. I think it is a brave and couragous battle and he is the top dog. love ya Kip, Telby
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