Withdrawel

[Broken Bones]

Hell-o, Life is a living hell,years of bad injuries, had to take Lortab,ect. It was so bad I made the mistake of getting on Methadone. Traded one nightmare for one that was much worse. I've gotten off methadone and went right back to Lortab 10/650, about 25 a day.I cut back to 14 a day and really want out of this nightmare but it seems the more times you quit, the harder it gets each time and cold turkey is not an option. A bullet would be better.The lower I get, the harder it is.IF I ever get off, the pain from injuries makes life unbearable. Anyone know if there is any way out? Can't take much more.I almost died from the cold turkey method.Also out of money, job, ect. Also, I wanted to say thanks, BEFORE I CRAWL OUT OF MY SKIN...Broken Bones

[Witchywoman]

Thomas,
5 HTP stands for 5 hyroxytryptophan. It is an amino acid. It comes from the seed of the Arfican Guarian plant.  It is the direct chemical precusor to seratonin.  When tryptophan was legal, folks took tryptophan to raise seratonin. Tryptophan converts in the body to 5 HTP, which then converts to seratonin, which elavates mood.

The thing is, tryptophan alone is ineficient, in that the liver gets its hands on it and destroys a lot of it before it can become 5 HTP in the body. So taking 5 HTP bypasses that step.

Basically, it achieves the same effect as the ssri's in that more seratonin is available in the body, but it does this simply by letting body make more seratonin rather than blocking the uptake of seratonin.  So, you don't get the nasty side effects that the ssri's give.

I've researched the hell out of 5 HTP this past few weeks, and discovered the original medical studies on it. The studies data analysts concluded that 5 HTP is as effective or more effective than paxil, prozac, zololft etc, with none of the side effects.

I've been on prozac, and it worked for me, but I went off due to the sexual side effects. The 5 HTP works as well or better for me than the prozac did, and no side effects. I'm a happy camper!

People already on ssri's shouldn't take it, and folks wanting to switch to it should research carefully and talk to their docs before going off an antidepressant.

here's a link with a little more on it:

http://www.mineralconnection.com/5htp.htm

love,
WW

[cindi]

JB,,,I am with Thomas,,right behind him as a matter of fact,,,,I don't know what I would have done without you guys and few past timers here the past 8 months..once I get through this next week of being as busy as I am I will be back posting  more,,it has been the week from hell....and ANGELICA ,,,,you are included in there,,,,,,,,,,,,love you all   cin

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Thank you so much!  I used to post several times a day to help me and you stay on course.  I'm happy to see that so many people here have been listening to our messages of hope and strength.

This has become a kinder, gentler forum in the past few months which is good by all means.  Witcthywoman, you have been very helpful here and I for one appreciate your involvement!

BTW:  I've been taking L-tyrosine, B-6, 5HTP and a multimineral and can hardly believe the benefits.  All this works quickly and has none of the side effects of some of the AD's I've tried.  Thanks for the recipe!  J.B.

[Thomas]

what is 5HTP?

Thomas

[niccee]

I have tried to find 5HTP and can't. Can someone help?

[clean]

I've been off the methadone for 26 days. I went cold turkey (checked into a nut ward for a week) I am still throwing up alot and have terrible back pain, yawns, runny nose and eyes, and the runs. The vomiting is more from reflux than nausea. However, I don't have the slightest desire for herion today. I'll explain. I really believe today that my last bottom was a blessing. See, I've been in and out of treatment centers, halfway houses,and na for 15 yearas. I'm 33. Now that my ass is whipped almost to death I am ready to finally do what my sponser says. like it or not.I am willing to listen to the chessy slogans and hug people I don't really like. Mainly because I beleive it gets better. I beleive today that how it works it really how it works. My bitterness and anger are still with me I guess. For me, it all boiled down to one simple question. Will I live or Will I die. Recovery is a ***** sometimes. I needed the nut hut instead of an expensive more comfortable kick. (buprenex is almost painless if you can get it) When I detoxed on buprenex I thought "****, I can do dope, I just need buprenex or ibogaine to come off it.I was off again. Don't give up. Love, Clean

[Witchywoman]

Wise words JB, and I'm writing them down in my notebook.

Honestly...I have a notebook with things that I have written down to read for when the cravings to take the meds hit me.

I've got quotes in there from you, Thomas, Cindi, Angelica, Jenny, Wizard, jbear, Lea, Milo, and many, many others from this site who have reached out with their words of wisdom.  I think if I invest as much energy in my recovery as I did in feeding my addiction, I have a pretty good shot at staying clean.

I also wrote letters to myself in the worst of the withdrawals...LOL  I titled them "To my future self, when the addiction beast tries to tempt me"

It works.  

But it is still a one day at a time thing. I can do one day at a time...sometimes an hour at a time.

JB, you were the first one to answer my very first post here, and I want to thank you for reaching out. Please know that you have helped me get my life back.

love,
WW

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

You have been such a good friend over the last 18 months!  

Looking back, I remember a much fiestier J.B. and Tom and a few others who've fallen by the wayside.  Hopefully, some of the past posters found a better way of life and are well into recovery now.

A terrible thought occured to me a while back...what if there are no more recoveries left for me?! In the past, I've had the strength to rebound from anything thrown my way.  I thought I was immortal, running rough shod through life and wearing a bullet proof vest.

The point is that for many of us, there may be no more recoveries other than the one we are working on today.  Take it seriously!  I've played with alcohol and narcotics for 30 years and now am paying the piper.  Protect your health by staying clean and sober!  J.B.

[Thomas]

my great good friend, please take care of yourself. I'm sure Marty does what she can, but still, I don't think you realize how devestating your loss would be to all of us. I don't even want to think about it. I hope your condition is at least improving. If I could give you a spare liver I'd put it in an Eskimo cooler and FedEx it to you right now ... Take care, my one-of-a-kind compadre. The idea of losing all your experience and wisdom to some disease saddens me no end.

Bobbie sends her best to you and Marty as well. She knows how long we've been corresponding and likes reading the posts that reveal your gentle philosophy on life and your compassion for your fellow man ... stay with us, JB, or I'll dig you up and beat the **** out of your corpse!

Your friend,

Thomas

[Angelica]

....Just for the record: You always give very good advice, and I look forward to what you have to say, and value your opinion.  Not sure how my response, made you re-think yours.  LOL  Your definately one who speaks from experience, and all pain is valid.  So, give yourself a pat on the back, cause you've done quite well in your decision making process, where this is concerned.  Opiate pain meds aren't for everyone, and how we view our pain is very different and individualized.  I think, given the circumstances, and personalities.... one should consider this as a last resort.  I was in pain for over 8 years, and it was progressing to the point of no return... I had to accept the fact that I would be an addict, not in the traditional sense, but nevertheless, an addict.  Once you take this route..... there is no turning back.  Your body requires this medication.... minimal pain or severe.  Francoise can attest to this.  So, W.W...... you have to speak out on this forum, and make people question their decisions....  It's of most importance.  You are a genuine person w/ integrity, I can tell.  Thanks for your time, and concern in helping others....we need more people like you. (:
Love,
Angelica

[Witchywoman]

Broken, after reading Angelica's post, I realized I mispoke when I last posted to you. If you are in the kind of pain that you are in, it may not be at all in your best interest to go off the meds. I am not trying to give you a rationalization to keep using, but just a reality check, that you might instead need to work toward learing how to use the narcotic for pain appropriately.  There is no virtue in torturing yourself.

I am in pain too, but it is not the level of pain that you are in. If I could not function without the meds due to pain, I would take them. Period. Right now I am limited due to pain, but my surgery recovery is not done, and the doc still expects progressive pain relief over the next three months.

Anyway..just didn't want to send you the wrong message. Have you talked to a pain management doc?

WW

[Angelica]

..... I had severe injuries from mva some years ago, and after being told that pain medicine wasn't an option and I had to learn how to live w/ the pain (..and several surgeries later) I decided to do a little research and find out what my options REALLY were.  What I discovered is that, Doctors werent no more concerned about my being addicted than aliens reaking havoc on the planet.  They were concerned (through no fault of their own)about loosing their lively-hood, and their medical licenses.  Anyway, finally coming to terms w/ a life, ahead, filled w/ pain that will only get worse, I had two options (after trying everything) Learn to live w/ the pain (as if thats humanly possible), or find a treatment that I could live w/ long term.  Something that won't tear my stomache lining, and esophogus to shreds, and something that wouldn't deystroy my liver/internal organs.  Well, what could that be??? Opiate pain meds.  I didn't jump into this over-night.  I thought long and hard about this.  I came to this forum and discussed my problems w/ these wonderful people, such as Thomas, JB, CIndi.... Brighty, etc.  Needless to say, 25 broken bones, several surgeries, and many many doctors later, I have decided (once I found a doctor willing to take a chance on me) long-term opiate pain meds was my only choice.  I have been pain free for several months now, and yes battling w/ the dependance a bit, but nothing comes w/o a price, and now I can focus on my life.  I am not one to crawl up and die..... otherwise I would have just wished to die in the accident. To lay it all out on the table: I have to tell you that my only fear is being sooo tolerant to pain meds, knowing that I will have more surgeries, but I'll cross that bridge when I get there. I'm not here that much these days, but I do pop in every now and then...maybe.. I can lead you in the right direction, and maybe help in some way.  Feel free to talk to me any time.  Hang in there...... There is always an answer......to any problem.  
Angelica

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Thanks for the kind words of support as usual!  Marty is doing really well these days considering the fact that she has to take care of me for a change.

My cellulitis flared up again and I had some problems.  I'm glad I don't live alone!  I need help getting dressed, on and off the toilet and can't drive,etc.  Kind of scarey for sure.  Marty bought me a Lazy Boy over the weekend and told me to stay there.  It's hard to do...stay off of my feet, that is.

I hope you are doing okay with the benzo situation.  I am still on narcotics for pain but have resigned myself to the fact that they really are necessary.  No buzz like when I was using them for fun...just pain relief.  Hug Bobby for us!  J.B.

[rtrain]

Hello people.  I'm one of those on my last leg.  2 years ago I went out into the shop to try to help catch up and got all 8 fingers 3/4 severed on a big machine.  Many operations later I still have them but they don't feel and don't bend and STILL hurt.  After each operation they gave me hydrocodone.  I would take it for 3 weeks and then it would be gone and... no big deal. Then after my last operation the Dr. wanted me to take ultram so I would not get addicted to the real stuff.  Since then I am so addicted I cannot function.  Lately it doesn't even help so I am trying for the 5 or 6th time to quit.  I did not know you could be so sick.  Everything you've all discribed.  My everything hurts.  My eyes, my teeth, my legs hurt so bad I can barely stand and oh my god my stomach problems.  I have a job.  A lot of people depend on me.  I cannot just stop working and go to some detox.  I cannot quit alone.  I do not know what to do.  I really don't feel this life is worth living anymore but I can't go yet.  It would hurt so many people.  Thought I was strong.  Have been all these years.  But this... I can not do.  Cannot believe the doctors don't know about this ultram.  Like I said... I never had any trouble with hydrocodone.. but this stuff is going to kill me.

[Thomas]

witchywoman, thanks for the kind words. It really helps to know I'm appreciated ... Your words made me feel good. By the by, I think you're pretty cool as well ...

katie r, curious thing, but even when i was butt miserable from withdrawal, two benedryl put me right to sleep (over the counter, of course). But do, do try to get some benzos like valium or xanax to see you through your detox. Surely, you've got a grandma somewhere who took two valiums and left the rest in the medicine cabinet(!). We can only live in hope ... wish it were legal to send you some, but unfortunately it isn't it. Also, I've read that it takes a month of Kava to realize its effects. I wouldn't count on that stuff for the short term.

Thomas

[Thomas]

I know witchywoman already warned you about tapering off the ativan. But there's more to it than that. Take it from a guy who's had three Xanax-related seizures this year (xanax is almost identical to ativan). First, a little background, all benzodiazepines (valium, ativan, xanax, librium, klonopin, halcion, dalmane, etc) are all metabolalized in the body into the same substance, benzodiazepine. The only difference is the speed at which the drug is converted and delivered to the benzo receptors in the brain. There are basically two kinds of benzos (short half-life and long half-life, meaning the amount of time it takes for the drug to leave the body). Xanax and ativan have half-lives of as little as 8 hours, depending on the individual tested. This means when you try to get off of them, you put your brain, that has become used to having the benzos, on a "dosage rollercoaster" that can result in some cases in potentially fatal seizures (complete loss of consciousness for 5 to ten minutes -- imagine this happening while you're driving a car). The problem with tapering off xanax or ativan is that they're already so potent that the normal dose is as little as .5 of a milligram -- that doesn't give you much to taper with, does it? My life changed for the better when, curse me for not remembering who, but either Francoise or Milo told me about Doctor Heather Ashton's web site devoted to safe detoxing from benzos using Valium. It was the best advice I've ever gotten. Not only can you get Valium in 10, 5 and 2.5 mg dosages to make it easier to taper, but, much more importantly, Valium has a half-life of as much as 200 hours per dose! Compare that to the 8 to 16 hour half-lives of Xanax and Ativan ... Valium's 200 hour half life means the drug leaves your body very, very slowly (it takes more than 8 days for half the dose of a single Valium to leave your bloodstream, regardless of the actual dosage). This means your brain has plenty of time to gradually and safely adjust to, first, the lower dosages of benzos, then get used to eventually doing without the benzos completely.

DO NOT TRY TO TAPER FROM THE ATIVAN! ESPECIALLY IF YOU'VE BEEN ON IT FOR A WHILE.

Go to a search engine and search for Heather Ashton. You'll find an excerpt from her book that you can take to your doctor when you ask him/her to switch you to Valium. It saved my life and, who knows? It might save yours, too. Good luck.

Your Friend,

Thomas

PS: whether it was Francoise or Milo, I hope you both know I love you both for your friendship and your loyalty. Along with my brother JB, CHAD FROM PHILLY, Jennyfla, cindi, angelica, kerrie, and many, many others, you two are both permanent members of my "A" list of cool people. I haven't communicated much lately, and for that I apologize. But all of you have been in my thoughts each and every day. JB, you've been in my prayers as I pray every day for your recovery. You're one of a kind, my brother, and I simply can't do without you. (give Marty a big smooch for me, while you're at it). I've forgotten to mention so many, but I hope you forgive me and know that you're in my thoughts as well,

Your friend to the end,

Thomas

[susanlea]

Have you ever tried Toradol?  It now come's in a pill form.  Last year when my now ex had kidney stones and was in the ER with them,  the Dr. gave him shots of Toradol,  it took his pain a way.  I think the ER Dr. knew he was addicted to opiates because of the way he looks.  Long hair, very massy looking.  Toradol is a non narcotic and has a very high success rate... Let me know.
On another note, I will email you about my son's interest in being a pagan.  I will get him that book that you suggested.  His interest lies in good spells and that kind of thing.  I am paying attention when he is on the internet, and so far it's pretty much kid stuff, so I am not too worried at this point.  He asked me to light incense for him tonight, so he could free his mind and get to sleep (first day of school tomorrow)  I am interested in making sure he sticks to this side, the good side.  He is only 12 and I do not want to squash him in any way, since he is really against formal religion, but I do want him to have a belief in himself.  Any info would be appreciated.  Thanks and I will pass on to Jenny later this week your regards....Susan

[Witchywoman]

Hi Katie,
Yes, I did get your email last night..and sent you one back in response..did you not get it?

That is amazing that you are doing so well!! I'm really happy that you are not suffering with withdrawals..are you also using the zinc/magnesium supplements that pillpoppa recomends?
I did all that..all the supplements, and started before my detox, and still had bad withdrawals.  Please let me know if you continue to be off the meds without the bad symptoms, and let us all know exactly what you've done to get this effect.

love,
WW

[mickytim]

Man did you come to the right place in the right time!
You are now amoung like minded people who have ask ourselves the same question many, many, times, and still asked ourselves. Welcome!
Check out alot of the past posts, including my own from not to long ago and you will find many of us who looked into the same mirror and saw and felt the same shame.

I can tell from your honest and heartfelt plee for help, that you will find that the people you will meet here, will give you the best non judgmental advice, and welcome you with open arms as they did myself and all new posters.

You already analized the situation and have taken a big step in asking about it, now comes the hard part in doing something about it and sticking to it( everyone raise your hand if you failed, mine is up a few times ).

You really should ask your Dr about a pain mgmt clinic, and way your options before you start anything drastic if possible.
because as you read on, the next step is a big one and if you want it bad enough, I mean really want it, we are all here to help support you and give you the best ear anytime you need it, that step is getting of the meds.

Don't be ashamed you are amoung friends

Lots of power and strength on your journey!

Peace

mickytim

[constant cycle]

Thanks, I will keep checking your forum and I only wish I had looked online for something like this before.  I guess I have been too ashamed to admit my problem to the world.  Only someone that has been there can understand.

Thanks,
constant cycle

[katie r]

Hello Everyone! Well, one of two things is happening to me. Either I am having NO withdrawals or Thomas's recipe really works!  Since I was taking 15-20 lortab's (10/500) a day...it must be the recipe! I took my last dose of lortabs yesterday morning....last night I was experiencing clammy skin and a few other signs of withdrawals. This morning I started on the "cold turkey recipe" and I feel fine right now. I didn't have any valium but I started on the L-Tyrosine and the B-6 and the others and I actually feel normal. Usually by this point I'm laying on the couch, wallowing in self pity, making calls to people to see if they have "a couple vicadins" and wishing I could climb right out of my skin.I'll post again tomorrow and let you know how it's going. Witchy woman??? I sent you an email last night.....did you get it? Ok folks...later! And Thomas....thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you.

[constant cycle]

Why do I keep doing this to myself?  It all started innocently enough back in the mid 80's when I got hurt at work and was prescribed Vicodin for the pain.  Being on workman's comp the doctor, therapist and pharmacy were more than happy to keep me supplied with plenty of Vicodin long after I really needed to take them.  I had no idea that "addiction" meant that the body physically craves the narcotic and all the will power in the world will do you no good.  I found out the hard way that codeine is PHYSICALLY addicting and your body "needs" it or you get really sick and suffer terrible withdrawal.  Since that time, I have been injured a number of times and been prescribed codeine for the pain.  Of course, I soon found out that I loved the euphoric feeling it gave me and the fact that it seemed to give me energy.  Since the mid 80's I have been actively addicted most of the time.  I have been through withdrawals so many times that I cannot even remember the number.  Of course, each time I swear to myself that I will never ever touch the damn stuff again and then something happens.  It could be a stressful situation or pain from some of my old injuries but next thing I know I am doing the "doctor circuit" going from doc to doc and eating more and more codeine every day.  I finally got up to taking 15-20 Lortab 10/500's a day and a script of 100 sure doesn't last very long.  Now that I am just about totally broke I know that I cannot keep it up and in fact I was tapering off slowly but still suffering from symptoms.  I made it down to taking only six tabs per day.  This being a holiday weekend I knew that I did not have enough to get through till I could see the doc again.  In a total panic, I kept calling the doctor and he finally gave me 40 to last until Tuesday (tomorrow) when I have an appointment with him.  Of course, having that many pills let me "reward myself" for being so good at getting down to six per day.  I know now that I will just have to start this whole process all over again.  Why do I keep doing this to myself?  I know that I am prolonging my suffering but I have already taken nine today and it is all I can do to keep from taking another handful.  Yeah, right now I "feel" pretty good but I will be paying a very high price in more ways than one before this week is out.  For twelve long years I have been doing this to myself and living a lie.  Only one other person knows (my brother) and he is in even worse shape than I am with the painkillers.  Right now we are both in the same boat and thank God that I have him to talk to.  NO ONE that has not been through this can POSSIBLY understand just how bad this is.  Most of the time I don't even want to live.  I look in the mirror and hate myself for being so weak.  I just want to give up.  There is no way that I can keep on living like this.

[Witchywoman]

Hey there Kristen,
It is so good that you told us about your relapse, rather than keeping it to yourself. That is the best thing to do...let it out, and keep working on taming the Dragon, as Wiz would say. Trying to stay clean is hard enough when life is going smoothly, I'm sure it is harder still when you are dealing with the pain of a bad relationship.

I hope you don't mind if I'm a bit blunt here..but from what you have written to us about your boyfriend, it doesn't sound like this relationship is one that is really healthy and good for you. He's broken up with you at least one, or two other time recently, if I remember your past posts correctly, and it has never sounded like he truly supports living a life of recovery and health.  I know it is easy to say this from my perspective, and a lot harder to live through..believe me..I do know.  But I hear such a striving for freedom and I see such a strength in you..I think you deserve better than how he's been treating you.

Hang in there Kristen..we are here for you, and I just want to thank you for your honestly.

love,
WW

[susanlea]

Are you ok?  Please take care of yourself.  I know not having your boyfriend for love and support hurts.  Was he addicted to pain meds or any other drug?  Why did he leave?  Be strong and pray.  Stay on the forum for support.  Get your head and body cleaned of the meds and then think about him.  I survived a boyfriend of 6 years who was addicted to oxy's and methadone, he went into detox, came out and relapsed very long story.  My kids and I put up with verbal and emotional abuse from him.  He lied, stole my meds, withdrew from us and punished us.  I don't know how your boyfriend treated you, but if he knows what you are going through and is not there to support you and care for you he sounds alot like my ex.  In a few months you will see how much better off you are without him.  If he hurt you and it makes you want to take pills to numb the pain there is something wrong here.  Everyone here will be there for you.  Look into your soul and get yourself to an AA or NA meeting.  You need a sponser, someone you can call and see to be there with you.  It's hard enough to go through the withdrawals cold turkey.  It would be ideal if you could go into a detox center, but I realize this isn't always possible.   I go to Al-anon and now I sponser others.  I am involved with a program for recovering addicts and some have told me that when they were having bad withdrawals they would watch some religous channels.  They said it took their mind of their pain because of all the positive energy.  Take care of yourself, make sure you drink plenty of Gatorade and eat if you can.  Nourishment will help ease the withdrawals and their symptoms.  Everyone knows if you eat alot it makes it easier to sleep.  Take care my friend and I am here.....God bless you.....Susan