Frightened out of my mind re: Suboxone

[4mymere]

Hi to all,
What a wonderful site.  I have been reading the member experiences concerning Suboxone, as I just began taking this medication 2 days ago (today is my 3rd).  I think the dose my physician prescribed is extremely high due to what I've read on various sites and I am at this moment wondering if I've opened a proverbial Pandora's Box.  I've had an addiction to prescription pain med.'s for approx. 25 yrs. and have tried everything.  I really thought the Sub. would be the answer, but again, am reading more and more about withdrawals from it, even with slow tapering.  I'm now wondering if I should start tapering off right now before I get caught up in the wrath of Suboxone, tho I DO understand every person has a different experience.  Years and years ago I was in a detox. facility for 6 days and then prescribed Naltrexone.  That was a miracle drug for me and to this day, I can't remember why I quit taking it.  I feel I should try to get off of the Sub. before I even get another refill and just not go back to the Sub. clinic.  Day 1, I took 12 mg., yesterday 16 mg. and today am supposed to take 24 mg. and continue that dose for at least a week.  I have felt terrible since the first tablet and have a headache that is horrible.  I'm jittery, can't sleep and have no appetite.  I just wonder if I shouldn't start tapering off of the remainder of the prescription (filled for 7 days) and then see if I can find a physician to prescribe the Naltrexone for me.  Needless to say, I plan on counseling/attending meetings and staying in close contact with my SO supportive family.  I don't know what to do and am literally scared to death at this point.  Any advice or feedback would be greatly appreciated.  In advance, thank you so much.  :(

[kim715]

You have gotten a lot of good advice here.Just wanted to offer my support...All the best...Kim

[mistakes76]

I have detoxed off suboxone, or I should say that I am detoxing off suboxone currently. Before I started suboxone I was using 2 -10mg tablets of methadone each day. I had tried to go cold turkey from methadone but the w/d are horrible, I even once tried using pot to ease the withdrawls i lasted about a month I wasnt ready to quit. When I decided to quit using, it was a decision made by myself and my finance, he is an addict as well. It was time to come clean. So I started looking for treatment and this is where i was blessed. I made my appointment with one doctor and my fiance had  a different doctor. My doc made an initial visit to determine the problem and some kind of plan, then I had to be in full on withdrawls, he would not see me with anything less than 3 days. That three days was living hell.Then he gave the suboxone and I had to stay in his office so he could check me for problems for the next 6 hours. I then was on suboxone and I was on 2 of 8mg/2mg tablets for the first month, He wanted me to slowly taper over like 6-8months. OK?? then my fiance went to his doctor who brought him in, asked questions, oh should know my fiance has abused pain medecine for 15 years. Well he told my fiance ok you should be done in a month, get the pills, go full withdrawl, take one tablet wait 1 hour take another half tablet and continue until you feel better and that is your dose. From there every 3 days reduce your dose by 1/4 of the pill. Thanks BYE. WOW WOW WOW , I couldn't believe how different they were. We do not have insurance to pay for this so it was costly. I started tapering immediately and continued to see my doc. He wasn't happy but if I had no w/d then ok. In the end we stayed on suboxone for about 3-4 months, we tried to tapered down 1/4 every 3-4 days but there was a couple weeks were I couldn't get below 1/2 and that is when I had to push mentally. Then none, The first week was pretty crappy but nothing, nothing like w/d off methadone. I am not done but I am 13 days into, I have some ambien to sleep at night, and the first 5-6 days I had benzo's to help with the muscles. I went crazy at the vitamin store and worked out as much as I could. Oh and yes I took a week off work. I am back to work and as long as I stay busy I feel pretty good, the nights are hard because I don't sleep great but every minute that passes is one drug free. I do think suboxone can be helpful, I am not sure I would be were I am without suboxone or maybe I was just dedicated to getting clean. I think the suboxone helped. But I do know suboxone has hurt a lot of people, please be careful. Hope this helps.

[dizzy83]

I agree with the guy above refusinbondage

I've been on SUBUTEX for 6years now ( i know way way too long) and like the comment above says ... i wish i'd knew what i do now back then.Insted i'm stuck on 16mg subutex and am scared and horrified and that detox off subs stories i've read on here.

I'm looking at going into a hospital detox in near futre , im just waiting for place to become available.Untill i find a date i can't bloody taper off the subs it's a living nightmare for me and i'm so scared of what's going to happen after 6years on subs when i finally come off.

I don't wanna bore anyone but quickly i'll just add .. i suffer with anxisty and take valium and i suffer with servere depression and take 2x antidepressents plus zopidem to sleep.

So i'm scared of the depression and anxisty tipping me over the edge when i'm in detox.

Also to the starter of topic....................subutex with me gave me headaches for the first week .Also subs don't kick in and make you stable for the first fewdays upto week it takes to feel comfortable with no bad side effects .

The funny thing is still now everyday i wake i've a head ache but looking back before subutex came about and when i was on methadone/herion or clean i never sufferd with headaches.So it does make you wonder if it's subutex/subxone itself causing headaches.

My advice to the starter of the topic is to get off subs after 3weeks of use they say a 21day of tappering and the stop .This will minimise any withdrwals when you stop .

Please,please don't do what me and above did and stay on subs years because then you'll be fxxked .

I'm sure you can't afford to be on subs for long anyway as they're so dam well exspensive .Luckly in the uk here we get subutex/subxone/naltrexone/methadone all funded of NHS system .Unless you're rich and then you only pay £6.oo /$12.00 pounds/dallors for one script which is cheap anyway.

I feel sorry for you gys form America etc .

what a wonderful thread and wonderful site .thank you guys for your help with the original starter so nice of you indeed .weldone for your help here xxx

[refusingbondage]

Hey again.. just fyi - the headaches are very common with suboxone.  My were so severe at first that I would have to lay in the dark in order to not puke all day long!  They improved but I still got the sub headache almost every day I took it..I would take the suboxone and within a half hour the headache came on (to me it felt like the worst sinus headache ever .. like I wanted to take a hammer and smash it in between my eyes).. advil/tylenol sinus mix helped.. and, like I said, after the first week they got better.  Also re the Naltrexone - Suboxone is 1 part Buprenorphine (the opiate) and 1 part Naloxone (the opiate blocker -- similar to Naltrexone).. if you dont trust your doctor trust your body..if your sick (and I dont mean dope sick or withdrawal sick) your taking too much.  Take less.  You are getting really good advice above.  I totally WISH I would have found this site when I started suboxone, not years later when I was trying to quit suboxone.  

[cattalina]

Type as much as you want or need to  - that's never an issue. Unfortunately, the dispensing of this medication has quickly become a joke. Not to get to much into - as everyone knows I can do!! - but suboxone in and of itself is not an evil or bad medication... it's the lack of information about it and the misdirection with which patients are led that becomes the problem. My battle has been epic, so when I make that comment I do so with open eyes. I've been on sub for 2 years now - which was NOT my original plan, however, my own lack of knowledge put me in the spot I'm in. Now - you have a long abuse timeline but as fas as amount you're in the less than extreme category. The opiate in sub is actually very very strong, much stronger than what you were taking for opiates per day previously. So you have to decide if you want to go thru a taper/detox process with a medication that will be potentially worse than your doc OR switch to Naltrexone, which you've had previous success with. I'd recommend that you do some research online about both avenues and spend some time thinking about what's best for you in the long run. Alot of people think that suboxone will prevent you from having withdrawals... well, it's true. You won't have wds from your drug of choice but you WILL have withdrawals from the sub when it's time to come off. There's also these really crazy side effects - an extreme headache being one of the early ones. (I've noticed different side effect clumps depending on how much/how long.) I also had the nasty headache - it's actually from taking too much suboxone - mine lasted 5 weeks... You really have to weigh your options. Honestly sub may be putting you in a worse position overall than with the percs. IMO you should really consider the Naltrexone. That being said, this is your decision to make as I won't be living your life for you, so you have to do what you think is best for you at this point. Just know that suboxone is very tricky and many of us got stuck on it very long term... 2, 5, 7 years in some cases. This is no joke and really needs to be considered fully. This is only my opinion - but I think only certain groups of people should be on suboxone at all. Everyone's addiction is their own and everyone's nightmare is their own - but sub is really serious, especially with the lack of knowedge it's even more serious, and many people end up worse off than when they started. I'm really stuggling not to go off on one of my tangents so I should probably quit while I'm (sorta) ahead! lol  Send me a PM if you'd like - we could rant and rave together - I'm all for it!!   :)  

[4mymere]

Hi.  I swear, y'all are so nice.  You just don't know how much support (free, catt...lol) I'm feeling/receiving from each of you.  Fist of all, please accept my apology for typing such a long 'comment'. ;-)  That's the kind of typing frenzy I would engage in when I was using.  
catt, to answer your question, I've been addicted to prescription pain med.'s for approx. 25 years and for the last few, about 10-12 Percocets a day along with an occasional Oxycontin, Vicodin or anything in that family.  I tried the detox. mentioned in my initial post years ago, but the Naltrexone really helped me when I got out; and, that was when I was only taking a few pills a day, so it's gotten increasingly worse as the shame and guilt has also increased, you know?  I've tried CT a few times over the years, but didn't have what it took to go through it.  Sometimes when I had no choice (no pills to find) I'd have to go through a day or two, but then something would become available...you know how shifty we become when we need to feed our addiction!  I hope I've given you enough information; if not, I'll be glad to tell you anything.  I can't get over how involved and nice y'all are in trying to help me and I'm so thankful.  catt, since cable posted what he/she did, i'm now wondering about alcohol.  I failed to mentioned that I began drinking beer more often to compound the effects of the Perc.'s, etc. and before I knew it, I was like cable, drinking about half a 12-pack every single night.  During my initial consultation the dr. asked if I was sure I wan't drinking more than that.  OH.....NEWSFLASH:  after the blunt message I left on the clinic voice mail yesterday before I posted here, she called me at 8:30 last night!  My mother had said on the phone that she bet I'd hear from them after the message I left, lol.  The dr. asked me what was going on and when I told her about the severity of the headaches, she asked how much I had been drinking.  I told her I hadn't had anything to drink and had not touched anything, which is true.  I'm really wondering if alcohol plays a bigger role in this kind of treatment.  I finally took half an 8 mg. tablet around 3:00 p.m. yesterday (Mon.) and that was going to be it; then when the dr. called, she told me to take another half (and again, this was at 8:30 at night) and today to take a half in the a.m. and another half around noon or early p.m. as they tend to keep people from sleeping (contradiction??).  So, I did as she directed and finally went to sleep with an impending headache to awake this a.m. feeling like every nerve ending in my brain was on fire; it was so bad that I had tears running down my face, but I'm sure a lot of that was my being so tired of the pain and general discouragement.  Right now, I don't know what to do.  From what you're all saying, maybe I should just take a fourth of the 8mg. tablet and then a fourth later (?).
Yeah, I'm quite disgusted with this oh-so-nice clinic and it was obvious the dr. didn't particularly want to be on the phone with me; I found myself apologizing to her for my message, as a way of explaining to her that I didn't know what to do since no one had called me back all day.  And the COW form....had I been told to be in mod. withdrawals when I first called, she would have made the determination instead of sending the form home with me, as you said!  I have an appt. tomorrow and am going to go mainly because I've already forked out $350 for the initial visit and a week's worth of Sub.  I can't help but wonder if the higher the dose, the longer one has a patient paying big bucks for an extended period of time, right?
I would like to ask, if you don't mind....in order to take Naltrexone, all opiates have to be out of the body for 6 days or one will get very sick.  Am I correct in that the Sub. is now said opiate in my body that I'll have to be off of for 6 days before I can find a dr. to prescribe the Naltrexone?
Ok, I'm typing too much and don't want to take advantage of anyone's kindness anymore than I already have.  I'm worried about cable.
to cable:  are you drinking on the Sub.?  If I can help in any way, please advise.  Thanks so much for your support, also.
to allaboutmary:  thanks!  Me thinks they're going to dread seeing me tomorrow, lol!  I appreciate y'all so much!

[cable]

Give it 2-3 days the Subs will work. Be strong you can do it. Think of all the effort you have focused into getting drugs and focus it into being sober with subs.

[allaboutmary]

Totally agree with cattalina.  Hound them until you get all your questions answered.

[cable]

I have been on Subox for about 3 years. I feel I am trapped. I have been able to get myself down to 2mg a but any less am I am in arthritic pain. I even once planned on quitting being down to 1mg a day but once it wore out I was suffering. I am an alcoholic(6-pack, half pint a nite) and am worried about getting kicked off of subs. But it seems like the only way is to get back on codine pills or benzos. Any suggestions?

[cattalina]

Totally understandable to be frustrated with the clinic and the doctors. You said one doctor is a psychiatrist and the other is an addictionologist so... you should be under good care. However, the steadily increasing by double dosage everyday seems very odd especially coming from doctors who are specially licensed? I may be biased as my doctors were such complete and total jokes... but I would recommend you hound them as much as need be. It's not preferential treatment, it's a patient needing direction and care which is, in fact, their JOB!! As far as the COW list and whatnot - when you are in withdrawals you would absolutely know. I can't believe they didn't explain better than just giving you a form?? What type/amount of pain meds were you on previously? What is your general addiction history like? As in, have you tried to quit the pain pills on your own in the past? Through an inpatient detox or physican-directed home detox? There's alot of factors you need to consider before you decide to just quit the sub. It can be very helpful, mostly for people with a long severe addiction history with chronic relapses... Yes it can be a double-edged sword, there are many negative drawbacks to sub but in some instances the drawbacks may be worth it. I'm not a doctor but from what I've observed suboxone seems to best served in short term treatment - no longer than 3 months max. Also, a lower dosage seems to be most effective with less side effects - lower dosages being in the 1-4 range... that's been my experience at least. And I was on 32mg/day at one point, down to about 1/2mg and that's how it's worked for me. Keep posting - BAD JOKE WARNING - our support is free!! lol

[4mymere]

Good grief, I hope this is the way to reply to each of you.  Y'all don't know how much I appreciate the great advice and time you each put into helping me.  That's just so nice and I'm very grateful.
After my initial post yesterday, I didn't take anymore Sub., still wasn't able to sleep much but woke up this a.m. with my headache subsiding.  Around noon I started feeling energetic and quite functional; however, I'm now so disgusted with my Dr. I could scream.  I don't mean to bore anyone, but when I first called for an appt. last Wed. I was told that I did NOT have to be in mild-mod. withdrawals.  Needless to say, when I left the clinic on Thurs. after my initial consultation I had to wait until the next day in order to be in the midst of withdrawal.  When I picked up my script on the way home, the pharmacist (who I know) pulled me aside and voiced her concern over the dose and the 'way the medication had been called in' which was the 2nd red flag for me.  Friday, I had gone 20 hrs. since taking 3 Percocets, a beer and 2 valium.  I called the clinic to discuss the COW form I had been given, as I wasn't really able to determine my pupil size, nor did I feel I should be the one making that kind of determination as to moderate withdrawal; I didn't know if it was time for me to take my 1st dose.  Of course I reached voice mail and it was about 2-3 hrs. before they called me back to say I could begin the Sub.  One of the Dr.'s told me to call back in about an hour to let them know how I was feeling. I did, and got the voice mail again; it was 4 hrs. before they called me back.  I was told by one of the two 'Dr.'s (one is a psychiatrist and addictionologist and the other a P.H.D.) to call over the weekend if I had any concerns/issues.  I didn't want to bother them (I'm an idiot), so I didn't contact them about the adverse effects until this a.m.  Got voice mail again and it was 2 hrs. before someone from the clinic (who goes in to answer calls, etc.??) called me back.  I didn't know if I should take a half tablet, not take anymore at all or what.  The lady I spoke with told me she'd try to reach the Dr. and that it would be a couple of hours before she'd be able to call me back.  That was at 11:30 a.m. and I have not heard one D*MN word since.  However, I just called and left a message on the now memorized voice mail and it was obvious I was fed up.  I stated that I had been waiting all day to hear back so that I could follow my physician's instructions and that this was a very critical time for me as far as withdrawal, side effects, fear, stress and recovery in general and that I just didn't know what I was supposed to do with no information.  I was quite curt.  I really, really like the the Dr.'s and the male nurse on my initial visit and felt they were very compassionate despite the misinformation. Also, I had to ask the Dr. to please jot down how many mg.'s I was supposed to take each day and when, as I knew I wouldn't be able to remember the daily increase.  For the 2nd day she wrote down 4 tablets OR 2x1/2.  Imo, that was a major contradiction, also.  Now I'm feeling that something just isn't right.  If these clinics can now take 100 patients and mine doesn't accept my health insurance, I'm really doubting everything now.  From my first phone call to not hearing a word all day.....arrrgh.  I certainly don't expect any kind of preferential treatment, but I can't imagine she has 100 patients who are all just beginning the Sub. AND having adverse effects, so what is a patient to do?  Am I thinking clearly about this?  The clinic was so nice, the staff have great credentials, etc., but these 'mistakes' honestly bother me, along with a seemingly lack of continuity with everything I told the other staff person this a.m.  My poor mama is being affected by all of this, too, and is disappointed in this medication and the phone tag issue.  I'm so sorry for typing a novella!  But, PHEW, I feel better, lol.  I would so appreciate what y'all think, if I should seek another physician, just taper off the Sub. I have left and go CT or what.  I don't mean to ask for medical advice, but each of you seem very knowledgeable about addiction, recovery and Sub.  I feel like I'm in limbo.  Again, I truly thank you each for taking your time to be here for me.  Every single reply was priceless.  I've had more support here in one day that I have from the clinic in 5!  God bless.

[refusingbondage]

4mymere - I too say talk to your doctor.  However, sometimes *we* know our bodies best.  In my opinion-- and let me say I am not a doctor but I have experience, starting, using and quitting suboxone-- you should take the least amount needed to feel right.  Remember your not trying to feel *high, or dizzy or lightheaded, or a rush of any kind* in the beginning you should just feel 'not in withdrawal'... a little goes a long way with suboxone.  Try 8mg.  Wait an hour.. if you feel like your still in withdrawal, add another 2mgs.   This is how my doctor did it in office, until my withdrawal went away.  I've not heard of increasing the dosage as your doctor is recommending either. I was pretty sick the first week on suboxone.  It wasn't dope sick -- it was my body getting use to the suboxone.  Tired, nauseous, headache.  It went away though.  24mg is a lot and you would be surprised how far 8mg will go.  Cattalina is 100% right.  Without getting into the good vs. evil dabate re suboxone - its imperative to educate yourself on it.  You cannot learn enough about this, or any medicine you put in your body for that matter.  Familiarize yourself with it and make a plan, set some goals and stick with them.  Good luck - dont hesitate to post more - lots of current and prior sub users here..

[cattalina]

Allicat: Suboxone is like most other opiates... it's great in the beginning then turns on you at some point - not to sound totally ominous there! I truly believe that knowledge is the key to success with suboxone... read, learn, absorb, deduce, set a plan and stick to it. Please don't just assume your doctor is right - many of us did that and we all regret it!!

4mymere: With a 25 year addiction... you are the ideal candidate for suboxone. Having said that I do not mean you need a crazy amount of sub but it could potentially help you. I hate to say talk to your doctor, but talk to you doctor! Hopefully you have a doctor who is knowledgeable about this medication and addiction in general. If not, above advice applies. Many of us have had less than stellar experiences with our sub doctors as they tend to not know a whole lot about this. Requirements for dispensing this med are low, no knowledge or background needed, just add water... so 'buyer beware' and all that. I could go on and on as many people know - there's a chunk of us with sub experience and good advice, talk to us and ask questions. Those of us who have taken/are taking it are the real experts... in my humble opinion. :)

[Allicat0117]

I just started sub as well. I felt the same way the first two days I was on it. It was better by the 3rd day and gone by the 4th...which was yesterday. I went to see my general physician and he told me I was jittery  and not sleeping becuase of the w/d from the hydrocodone and it should subside after the sub gets in your system. It did and I actually got 8 hrs of sleep last night. I am not a dr but I surely would not INCREASE my dose daily. I dont know??? I would talk to your dr about that and ask him why he wants you to do that. I also had bad migraines the first few days and they were gone by yesterday as well. So hang in  there...it will get better. I feel great today.

[allaboutmary]

Why is your doctor increasing your dose everyday, and to do this when your are not sleeping and jittery ???????

[avisg]

I would contact your doctor tommrow and let them know how you are feeling .Try to see if he will taper you down  .It will be ok we are here to help :)