How can I withdraw from Methadone ?

[Saul]

I was sniffing heroin for 7 monhts and tried for 3 months to quit. I went to a detox doctor and got clonidine,some muscle relaxers and shots of buprenorphine. He said it did not come in a pill so I had to do the shots. I got the stuff and took it home but I was too terrified to take the shots.My fiance offered to inject me and I let her give me one of the 3 shots because I was so sick from the withdrawl. I went into a panic and have not been able to face another one. This is hard to explain but I have not had any medical work done in years that requires a needle. I guess it's a phobia. So I have these 2 shots left from January. I was able to get methadone under the table from my heroin supplier and have been on it for 2 weeks now and want to get off it really fast. It has helped me with the heroin which I had been on a small maintenance dose for a month. Since supply and cash were no problem maybe I should have just stayed on the heroin. Why don't they use morphine or just less and less heroin to detox from the heroin? I am having a hard time getting off this stuff. The cravings are really bad. Is there a way to stop them? This is the only reason I kept relapsing from the heroin. Will Naltrexone stop cravings? I wouldn't take that pellet from the doctor because if it doesn't stop the craving I'm afraid I might use and od. He didn't have an answer for this and said maybe I shouldn't get it afterall. I appreciate your help.

[Francoise]

Strongly recommend you visit the following site and read every word:

http://www.ibogaine.co.uk/

And so should everyone else who is either an addict and wants off their drug, or who is an addiction medicine specialist.

My $0.02.

Francoise

[spook]

So far Ibogaine represents the closest thing to a one dose? cure! for Euphorigenic drug Addiction.
If you want to detox using a non Opioid,use Clonidine and Quinine and then taper off the Clonidine(slowly) and stop the quinine.
Nothing stops the cravings(except maybe Ibogaine temporarily),and other drugs of abuse(amphetamine,cocaine,heroin,etc)
I have stopped using Opioids,ie Heroin,Methadone,etc(clean for a year) and it can take months for the craving to stop and even when it does,you may start using again(I did even though I felt fine),now I stopped again??,it is like opening a door and eventually it closes,BUT you can never LOCK it again.
Changes in Neurons occur as a consequence of long term Euphorigenic drug use,addiction is Psychological,yet still supported by Neurological systems,just different ones.and they take TIME to correct.The locked door is the Psychological aspect,a learnt behaviour,response to stress is modified and Opioid recall manifests,this can be permanent,this is the purpose of Psychotherapy,to learn to deal with life without drugs.
The Buprenorphine(BUP) is now available in Australia as a NHS approved sublingual(no need to inject)tablet to "Help" heroin addicts,if you have a big tolerance and bad withdrawal symptoms,it will either do nothing or worsen the withdrawals(as it has antagonist properties that predominate in doses required to abolish withrawals)
Its mild agonist properties mean that once sufficiently detoxed(over most of withdrawals)it will stop the craving,but then you have to get off the Buprenorphine-Right?(maybe not,its your life),but it is better than long term methadone maintenaince as Withdrawals from that take months,whereas getting off BUP is very easy,although you may not feel ready for a while,the good thing about BUP is that if you try to abuse it by taking large doses,it has the opposite effect and will cause withdrawal.
Keep trying and do not feel like a failure if you relapse,All of the people I know who are ex drug addicts and have NEVER relapsed have had a PROFOUND change in their view of their lives,you are dealing with a dilemma that is so difficult,and all of the answers are within you,although at times you may think the problems exist in the outside world,unless you can change them, you need to alter your interpretation of that world/your life,society,etc.You may never succeed in total permanent abstinence from Opioids.
Approx 80% do not,so you will not have to feel weak or not normal.I wish you luck in this project,as nothing you do in your life will require as much dedication to achieve.
No wonder DR`s do not want to prescibe Addictive drugs and our governments Ban them,they can ruin a persons life.
Good luck and may god lend a hand.  

[spook]

So far Ibogaine represents the closest thing to a one dose? cure! for Euphorigenic drug Addiction.
If you want to detox using a non Opioid,use Clonidine and Quinine and then taper off the Clonidine(slowly) and stop the quinine.
Nothing stops the cravings(except maybe Ibogaine temporarily),and other drugs of abuse(amphetamine,cocaine,heroin,etc)
I have stopped using Opioids,ie Heroin,Methadone,etc(clean for a year) and it can take months for the craving to stop and even when it does,you may start using again(I did even though I felt fine),now I stopped again??,it is like opening a door and eventually it closes,BUT you can never LOCK it again.
Changes in Neurons occur as a consequence of long term Euphorigenic drug use,addiction is Psychological,yet still supported by Neurological systems,just different ones.and they take TIME to correct.The locked door is the Psychological aspect,a learnt behaviour,response to stress is modified and Opioid recall manifests,this can be permanent,this is the purpose of Psychotherapy,to learn to deal with life without drugs.
The Buprenorphine(BUP) is now available in Australia as a NHS approved sublingual(no need to inject)tablet to "Help" heroin addicts,if you have a big tolerance and bad withdrawal symptoms,it will either do nothing or worsen the withdrawals(as it has antagonist properties that predominate in doses required to abolish withrawals)
Its mild agonist properties mean that once sufficiently detoxed(over most of withdrawals)it will stop the craving,but then you have to get off the Buprenorphine-Right?(maybe not,its your life),but it is better than long term methadone maintenaince as Withdrawals from that take months,whereas getting off BUP is very easy,although you may not feel ready for a while,the good thing about BUP is that if you try to abuse it by taking large doses,it has the opposite effect and will cause withdrawal.
Keep trying and do not feel like a failure if you relapse,All of the people I know who are ex drug addicts and have NEVER relapsed have had a PROFOUND change in their view of their lives,you are dealing with a dilemma that is so difficult,and all of the answers are within you,although at times you may think the problems exist in the outside world,unless you can change them, you need to alter your interpretation of that world/your life,society,etc.You may never succeed in total permanent abstinence from Opioids.
Approx 80% do not,so you will not have to feel weak or not normal.I wish you luck in this project,as nothing you do in your life will require as much dedication to achieve.
No wonder DR`s do not want to prescibe Addictive drugs and our governments Ban them,they can ruin a persons life.
Good luck and may god lend a hand.  

[Frankinscense]

Methadone is a long acting synthetic opiate that can help opiate addicts if taken as prescribed. It SHOULD NEVER be bought on the streets!! My advice to you is to enter a methadone program and continue the methadone treatments for a period of time. You must make up your mind that you want to quit. It sounds as though you have not reached that plateau. Methadone should be accompanied by counseling from a substance abuse counselor and twelve step meetings are a must. These two treatments are available at most methadone clinic. Make up your mind and go you life WILL improve if you get legitimate help from a well rum methadone clinic. Besides methadone most clincs offer Laam as an alternative. Laam is a longer acting cousin to methadone that allows you to go to the clinic 3 times a week. Again,staying on methadone will allow you to get you life together, simply because you are not chasing you next high. You must be supervised and your need to find your adequate dose if you want to get the therapeutic effects from methadone.                                                                                                                         Detoxing from methadone can be achieved by doing a very slow dose lowering regime. One milligram a week for the fasted techinique. The most comfortable with the least amount of discomfort can be achieved doing one mgm a every 4-6 weeks until finished. (10mg,9mg,8mg,7mg etc) I have successfully been clean of opiates for seven years using my local methadone clinic. The important thing is to make up your mind to stay focused with your program. Best Wishes, Stay Focused, Be Spiritual!
Dan..

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Welcome back, Dan!  I've had no experience with methadone except what I scored on the street.  It was called Dolophine in Germany and I did'nt think much of it at the time...but it did kill the "sickness" when morphine or heroine was not available.

I agree that a well run methadone clinic may be the best solution for many addicts in this country.  More importantly, I hope people read the last two sentences of your post over and again.  What you have said here is the key to any kind of recovery whatsoever!  J.B.

[Gina]

Hey "Doc", nice to see you are still with us. Remember me... I started the methadone clinic in January and have maintained for the past month at 70 mgs. They are going to let me start LAAM in the next few weeks and told me that this would be another adjustment....Evidently you can't figure out that 70mgs of methadone equal ?? mgs of LAAM. Do you have any experience with this switch over? I have to say that even though I drive an hour to the clinic every morning and an hour back I have never felt better. I do not crave, I have energy and I feel "Normal!" It is not a high it is just so amazing that I know this is the way you are supposed to feel. My insurance is suppose to reinburse me 70% after a $300.00 deductable. So I am currently awaiting to receive a $500.00 check from them. I figure it costs me $20.00 a week instead of the $70.00 fee. That is not counting gas but...to me it is so worth it. My problem lies with my husband who doesn't understand why I am not reducing my dose so I can be free of all drugs. I know he hates me driving there (time,gas)and fee since I haven't received my insurance check yet. I tell him how good I feel now and he says I am subsituting one drug for another. He doesn't understand that this is not some sort of high. He won't say anything for a couple of weeks than wham.....he starts saying, "When are you going to get off the program and get your **** together?" I get frustrated and think to myself..Fine,k I'll get off and just find another dr to get pain meds. I know that is just anger talking but I don't know how to get him to understand. My counselor has offered to have a meeting with him to help educate him.Sorry this got so long but I have noone else to tell. That's why I really appreciate all you guys (and girls) help! Dan, thank you for personally answer my detox question to my e-mail. Can you answer the LAAM question? Thanks everyone!!

[CHAD FROM PHILLY!!!]

I just wanted to say hi and see how you have been. Chad

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I'm still me!  Ironically though, I've had my own problems to deal with and have felt like there was no one to talk to.  I'm really happy for you in your decision to seek help for your Oxy addiction.  You always knew that it was coming and just needed a little "nudge" to fall into the program.  I don't really want to discuss my problems here, but I will tell you that I wrote a letter of appreciation to my doctor today for helping me with my pain.  That's what I find ironic!  For years I abused narcotics for the "high" and now I need them just to function due to real medical problems.  I still practice the twelve steps everyday.  That statement probably sounds a bit strange but if you stick with the program, you will understand what I mean.  J.B.

[CHAD FROM PHILLY!!!]

I think a guy like you might have the strenth not to abuse them. You are obviously well versed in the 12 steps of NA. I however can't even think about them, let alone do them. I guess you know that I never really needed them after my surgery. I think that I might have truly needed them for like 3 days after the operation. The thought that is going through my mind is thatI say hey! why not just swallow them instead of chewing them. I guess that's the addict in me talking. Twoo weeks ago I was crying like a little girl, I HAVE to remember that pain.........chad

[Brighty]

I hope you read carefully the dosage information that Dan gave you. Methadone is a very difficult drug to get off of.... so if you couln't get totally off the heroin in spite of your small maintenance dose I am not sure you will be able to get off the methadone unless you are very accurate and disciplined in tapering yourself with it. There is a reason that it's a very controlled drug. If everyone had easy access to methadone it would probably not be much use as a maintenance drug; in fact lots of people would be addicted to it. There are people in some countries where this is the case. I think Israel is one of them. The methadone problem is worse than the heroin problem. I wish you all the success in the world. You seem determined to get clean .... but it would be better to have it done professionally where you are not holding your own healing potion...drugs in the hands of an addict are easily misused.... I would not want to see you go from the fry pan into the fire. God bless you and I hope you come back and read... there's good information here.

Love, Brighty

[Brighty]

I had to read Saul's question a few times to really get the idea that he may be in need of some more information that you can share. It seems to me that he wants to detox, not to maintain... but of course I can't be sure. Isn't the 2 weeks he's been on the methadone a little long for detox ?? I know they used methadone in a couple of the detox places my daughter was at. But I think after the week, that was it.

Can you explain the dosages used in a detox and the dosages used in a maintenance program ?? Is Saul beyond detox now and having to work on a maintenance taper ??

I got worried after reading his question because someone told me that getting off methadone can be fatal if not tapered correctly. I don't know if this is true but it just came to my mind and I am hoping this fellow has the best information for his situation.

Also, he said he has been using for 7 months. Don't most methadone clinics suggest that users under one year try to forego the methadone ?? I am sure there is lots of misinformation out there that I have heard. I know you can clear them up.

Thanks for your replies which will enlighten me and help this guy out (I hope)--. Love, Brighty

[Brighty]

I was especially impressed with your response to Saul... your compassion is evident... but also you seem to have this whole business of the facets of addiction very well in perspective. It is very complex and I often find in your responses to others, the answers to questions I have had in my mind but have not yet asked. So much of this I have agonized and pondered in my mind for several years now... and I also find that those things I though there were no answers to really do not have answers.... not evident to mere humans anyway !!:-)) Thanks for adding to or verifying my jumbled information !! Love, Brighty

[Jimenez]

Here's why Methadone is not much more than big business. I don't care what anyone says, the reason it stops cravings is because it's made up of the same stuff we all love. Yeah, it's long acting. Big deal. You're still using. If someone actually uses methadone and stops really overdoing it, like most of us do eventually, great. More power to you. But remember, you have to get off this stuff too, don't you?

Okay, someone on this thread said that Methadone is costing her $20 a week...she's currently at 70 mgs. According to Dan:

"The most comfortable with the least amount of discomfort can be achieved doing one mgm a every 4-6 weeks until finished."

So let's say you're tough and can do one mg. every 4 weeks (1 month) for math's sake. If the person in question goes down 1 mg. a month at 70 mgs. constantly and consitently until the end, she will take 70 months to get off her current "regimen" right?

That's almost 6 YEARS!

52 weeks a year at $20 a week (not including time, gas etc.) = $1040 per year x 6 years = $6,240. Now, this is all under the assumption that no relapses occur or no mg. dosages go on longer than a month.

6 years is a long time. I'm not trying to burst anyone's bubble or put down anyone's attempt to get over their addiction. I think that's commendable and very cool. But to me, I think stretching out this regimen for this long is just putting off the desired inevitable - being drug free and staying drug free. Take a couple of months, or a few weeks with Bup and get it over with. Confront your issues with drugs and what is happening in your life that makes you want to do drugs as an escape with a shrink or support group and get the actual drugs out of your system. The longer an addict stays in a "drug routine" the more apt they are to continue thinking about drugs in general. The more apt they are to relapse.
"spook" already said that it's a tough go and that over 80% relapse. Is someone that has been on methadone for 16 years not a drug addict? I think they are, but they are keeping an industry afloat too. It's a lot of money. It's a lot of time. There has got to be a better way to spend this time and money getting off the drugs altogether. $100 a month for a shrink (less if you have insurance and a co-pay). 20 hours a month at support groups. There are more proactive ways to approach getting off drugs than taking different drugs. The main goal is to get off drugs right? Is a 6 year program that isn't guaranteed itself a great risk both physically and financially? I don't know. Any semblance of a "normal" life is worth all the money in the world so don't get me wrong here. I just think when you get to a place where you want off, you have to get off. Period. The withdrawals are being staved off just like Tom staves them off with Darvon. Not much of a difference. If the mental scaffolding for drug addiction is still in place, the cravings will always be just beyond the next corner. Tear down the scaffolding and your off to a better start. I could say more on this, but I won't. I haven't done either, methadone or quit, so I'm in no place to judge. But when I do do something, I would hope that I could look back in a year or two from that day and think about it in the past tense. Not in the augmented present. Thanks for the ear as usual. Just food for thought. I commend anyone who has even gone as far as the methadone step. God Bless.

[Brighty]

Thank you for your candor.... it's good to know that some people are brave enough to speak their truth. I do not disagree with much of what you say. In fact when my daughter wouldn't get clean and we (our family) were in and out of court with her  charges, I was really on my knees. They sent her to a methadone clinic and I was very upset for the reasons you mention... prolonging the drug syndrome.  She was not happy either because she also espoused the same philosophy as you. The problem was she was breaking the law to get heroin and about to go to jail. She was essentially told that she could have her cake and eat it too by "purchasing" methadone.Also, the dose would be controlled so she would not get high..just satisfied.  As fate would have it, when the clinic interviewed her they found her to not be a good candidate because she was detoxed and clean for a short time, and they had a wait list. By the time she relapsed and was Baker Acted for a suicide attempt she ended up in a long term treatment program that mainly treated mental health issues. Their philosophy was long term deep therapy rather than long term maintenance. I am not sure what the future holds but she does have a year clean, is free of cravings, working a recovery program and grateful to be where she is. It is likely that had fate turned the other palm she would still be in the methadone clinic program. My understanding is that there are some people who simply cannot get clean no matter what is offered. Who knows why ?? Maybe it's permanent damage to the neurotransmitter system, maybe permanent psychological dysfunction, resistance to healing.... any number of things... but in cases like that I would opt to have a person on methadone rather than the alternatives. No matter how you cut it, it's all an industry. Methadone is a creation of the Rockefeller foundation... need we say more ??? Drugs,both prescription and on street are also big business, as is the profit from making criminals out of addicts... it's all immoral. The difference is that methadone is legal and it removes the need to struggle and revert to criminal activity. I am not sure why they don't just keep people on heroin in a clinic with controlled doses. I was told because it's so plentiful that it can't be truly controlled. Yet we have JB and Saul attesting that they got methadone on the street...so I am not sure it's so controlled afterall... so I suppose I don't really understand why it's used instead of other opiates. Maybe that it's long acting. I hope Dan will respond to our dilemmas here. Love, Brighty

[Brighty]

I hope you read Saul's comment.. he has 2 injections of the bup left... maybe he will tell you where he went.... hmmmmm.... wonder if it's a possible mail order product :-)) ??? Did you check those sites I sent you ?? Any luck ?? God bless you. Love, Brighty

[Thomas02]

Dear Brighty,
Hope you and your daughter are well. yes, I checked out a number of the clinics on your list. Many of them look suitable for what I need. Unfortunately, the "dot.com" stock market debacle has put me out of work, leaving me with no med insurance. Until I find another job and hook up with some med insurance benefits, I'm in a holding pattern when it comes to getting off of any drugs. All these programs reqire money. So, in the mean time, I use what I have in order to maintain, but until I get some coverage, I won't be able to afford any of the programs on your list. According to CSAM, bup will not be legalized for private treatment of opiate addiction in California until sometime in the third quarter of 2001. So, while they're holding training seminars for doctors in San Franscisco as we speak, the drug won't be OK's for opiate addiction treatment until later this year. So I'm just playing my usual waiting game -- placating my habit with propoxyphene and Xanax and just waiting, waiting, waiting for the legislature to vote in the measures governing clinic treatment of opiate addiction with buprenorphine. Wait. Wait. Wait ... that seems to be the name of the game. Thanks again for the research and the list. I fully intend to use it when 1) I am gainfully employed and can afford the treatment and 2) it's finally legalized for use as an addiction treatment. I could get it now if some doctor wanted to prescribe it as a pain killler, but I don't know any MD's who will "fudge" things in order to make that work. I guess I have to just wait. Give my best to your dear daughter. I do hope she is better.
Peace.

[Patrice]

Hi Dan
Remember me, its Patrice, you are the one who helped me make up my mind to get on methadone maintenance.  It has been a bumpy (but good road) they are still trying to ajust my doseage as I am finding it hard to stay clean.  I have been totally honest with them, and I am going to make it one day at a time!!!!  I have a VERY important question to ask of you.  My husband Mike is on MMT with me, and he isnt doing too good mentally.  He was on it in the 60's when they would dose you so high, you would walk around like a zombie.  Mike needs to talk to a successful person like you to tell him that its ok to be on mwthadone, and let him know hes not a loser (thats what he thinks he is right now)  If you could just e mail him once, and let him know how good you are doing.  Our addy is ***@****.   I am sorry for bothering you, but he needs help right now, and you helped me soooooooooooo much!!!!  Thank you Dan, and sorry I swayed from the topic a little.

Take it easy

Patrice

[spook]

Buprenorphine(sublingual) is now available in Australia and quess what?,I am not going to get my Doctor to prescribe it to me because,It is an Opioid and addictive,it costs $3.20 for about a weeks supply,now that I am OFF opioids I feel UNREAL,absolutely bloody ecstatic,what a waste of a life being trapped on them,I am stronger than that,then again maybe in a month or two I will have a little binge on Buprenorphine(no hurry),actually I went cold turkey from 130mg of methadone used for 2 years and It was Overall a positive experience.those that fear life,fear pain,those that accept pain,acquire pleasure.
   Their are no answers in life just solutions,make sure you do not dissolve your brain in them.
I had A girlfriend who hurt me more than any drug I have ever used,**** drugs and girlfriends,stuff life.I could die now and not care,"freedom is having nothing left to lose".

[Frankinscense]

Mr. Jimeniz remarks are very logical. But there is nothing logical about opiate addiction. There are few treatments that work to help this brain disorder. Methadone when used properly can produce positive results. Opiates deplete or slow the production of several neurotransmitters, endorphins being one that is effected. Methadone must be taken for at least 12-18 months for four things to happen. 1.)Allow the addict to look at his life and face some very important unresolved issues. 2.)Find a therapeutic dose 3.) attend counseling to find solutions for these issues.4.)allow the brain to readjust. Methadone maintenance is hard to understand by people. That is why there are so many myths written about it.Methadone and LAAM helps the brain replenish the N/trans. that have been effected negatively from years of drug abuse. The fact is MMT stops crime and the spread of HIV when used with a good program. Like any other program,it must taken seriously by the participant.                  Dan...

[Brighty]

Hi Dan...

I know you are busy so I am sorry to bother you... I did post some questions for you which are above & dated 3-26. It appears you missed them.

What is a normal detox dose, used for a week lets say, compared to a dosages for a long term maintenance? It seems that's what Saul who asked the question that started this thread wanted to know. I don't think anyone answered that yet.

Also, is it true that withdrawl from methadone can be fatal ? Spook just said he went cold turkey off 130 mg !!! Is that unusual ???

Why do clinics not use maintenance of a tapering dose of the original drug of choice ?? I realize that some are long acting so maybe you can enlighten me here.

Is it true that the govt. has put tracers in the methadone so it can be detected in the urine longer than normal opiates ?? ( May sound silly but I have heard that many times !!) Actually, how long does it stay in the urine ?

How controlled is methadone ? I thought it was very hard to get on the street... now reading here it seems it's not so hard afterall. ( ?? )

Thank you for your comments which shed positive light on a drug that many of us are not well informed about. Patrice made a comment about her husband being on the stuff years ago and he was like a zombie. Many of us are over 30 :-)) and that's the stereotype ( a correct one by the way) that we remember and it did seem that it was just going from one drug to another. It did get a bad name for that and similar readons. I think there is better use of methadone now.

Hope to hear from you. Love, Brighty

[Jimenez]

You know Brighty - re: your questions about the "controlling" of methadone.

Matthew Perry, who just landed himself in yet another rehab after suffering bouts of addiction and pancreatitis from said addiction, had/has a Vicodin and Methadone Problem. His co-stars on Friends raided his dressing room after suspecting that Matthew was once again in active addiction. They found quantities of both Vicodin and Methadone. Now, from what I've heard here, NO clinic allows you to walk out with your single dose let alone 100 or so. This leads me to believe that M.Perry was using methadone off the street to either get "high" or to maintain himself when the Vicodin ran out. This is about the 3rd story I've heard in the last week, including here, that methadone could be found on the steet. Methadone can be found in pharmacies. I knew a guy that was into the 300-400mgs of Morphine a day. How'd he get that? Pharmacy. His dad owned it. Same pharmacy I used to get my Vicodin from. Under the table. So it's all to be had. You just have to look. Methadone clinics aren't sole proprietors of the drug so it's always possible that these drugs are making it out on the streets - and they are.

If methadone is anything like a "super" Darvon, I'd rather pass anyway. I absolutely hate even a maintenance dose of Darvon (they're in the same family - methadone and Darvon) Of course, like Tom, Darvon is way better than withdrawals, but not a fun feeling regardless. Especially if you go a little over. Can anyone here attest to the "feeling" of methadone? Is it a related feeling to propoxyphene? (spook? whatdya think?) If so, I can count it out immediately. Darvon actually makes me want to get Vicodin etc. in order to really be satisfied cravings-wise. Anyway, I'm off on a tangent now, sorry about that. (also, spook: in your post from a week or two ago, you were enjoying a beer. In the same post you said it didn't feel as good as the "shot of heroin" that you had some weeks before. I might be prying, but in other posts you have said that you are over a month clean and before that on 130 mgs. of methadone. Were you using other drugs while on the methadone or am I losing my mind and just confusing your posts and stories? Sorry if I am. Just want to make sure I'm on the right page.)

[Gina]

I'm the girl who wrote about the MMT and cost per week. The way the clinic detoxs is 5mgs every 1 or 2 weeks depending on the individual's comfort level. I was in group today and a girl went from 80 mgs to 30mgs using the minus 5mgs per week and stated she felt no discomfort at all. The counselor stated that it starts to get a little harder at around 20 mgs, you can experience discomfort. PATRICE....I remember when you started and felt fantastic, I was the same way but started to crave again so they upped my dose so I could reach a blocking dose. I started to think it wasn't possible because after an increase of 5mgs week by week it seemed to only hold me for 2 weeks . Now I have been at 70mgs. for 1 month and I have finally arrived. No more cravings. Just increase until you reach your blocking dose. I remember not wanting to go higher but my counselor stated it doesn't matter if you are at 60mgs or 90 mgs its not harder to come down (just longer)since its not until you reach around 20mgs or so that you feel the discomfort and then you just stay there for awhile. I want Jiminez to know that you must attend 3 NA meetings a week, 1 inhouse group meeting and individual counseling while on the methadone so you can have a foundation built when its time to detox. I was leary of the program too. I got caught stealing pain pills from work, lost my job and had to go through pre-trial intervention. I will be able to have my criminal record expunged in a few months. This program does help those of us who break the law to get our fix. I never thought it would happen to me, since I am not a thief. The addiction helped me become a liar and a cheater. I have tried outpatient therapy at a rehab but went back. I know I am subsituting one drug for another at present but I am working the steps and receiving counseling. I have never felt better. I am working on my issues for the first time in my life and I am 37 years old. I am doing positive things and am not destroying my liver with all the acetametaphine. I guess its a personal decision we must all make for ourselves.

[spook]

I went cold turkey from 130mg,because my previous withdrawal from 80mg took 2 years and I had constant MILD withdrawals the whole time,even when on 80mg and stable I had withdrawals in the morning before my dose,I HATE methadone,jumping off 130mg is not at all life threatening,their are currently NO documented Medical cases of ANY person dying from Opioid withdrawals.
130mg Methadone daily equals about 600mg of Morphine daily,about the same as 800mg Hydrocodone(ie 80x 10mg Vicoden tablets).I was over 90% of it in 5 months,follows by the usual depression **** that lasted another 6 months or so,not sure.Did it hurt you bet ya.

[Jimenez]

Thanks Gina - for the info. I truly hope that you don't think I was putting down your decision to go the Methadone route. I commend you beyond belief. Of course, I'm sure many people get in and out of there in a month or two. But there's also the ones that are there for years and years. I guess it all comes down to what "kind" of an addict you are. A lot of people want to categorize all addicts in the same bin. The 8 times a day heroin shooter who just beat an old lady up to get $15 and the guy who takes 20 Vicodin a day that are prescribed by a doctor are both addicts - but they are definitely different. One has sunk much further morally than the other. That's not to say we're not all CAPABLE of becoming that heroin addict. It's just that if you're not there yet, you shouldn't be treated as if you were. What the hell am I talking about now? Tangent yet again. Thanks for the info. I don't know much about methadone, but I do know myself and my addiction. I would try to find a way to get high on the methadone. That's for sure. I'd attempt to stick Tuesdays dose under my tongue, tough out the night and then get high as a kite on Wednesday with a double dose. Sick huh? It would really have to be all or nothing for me. If it's true that I now have a permanent endorphin shortage - God help me, and us all. If I could actually quit, but never feel "normal" because my endorphin levels are screwed then what kind of quality of life is that? I think a non-damaging opioid for the endorphin challenged would be the best thing for all/most of us. Especially for us that HAVE to take something for chronic pain. But the money that is being generated by Vicodin (consitently in the top 100 prescribed meds in the country) along with Tylenol #3,4's, Oxycontin (which is unbelievable expensive), Vicoprofen (over a buck a pill) etc.- there are HUGE industries that never want us or anyone in any methadone clinic to get "free". Of course, there will always be more coming down the pike, but what the hell? Might as well get the new ones AND keep the old ones right? We're all part of a system that people are making money off of. It's the American dream.