Aa
Liver test results normal, but really?
I've taken Hydrocodone for a little over a year now. I take large amounts per day when I have them. I try to do CWE whenever possible but can't always. I am ready to put these nasty little demons down and take my life back. I've been having some right upper quadrant pain and serious nausea. I was very concerned about it so I went to the hospital and told them what was going on. They did an ultra sound and blood work. The doc said everything looked great and my liver test levels were even on the low side. But the pain is still there and the nausea is horrible. Is it possible that my liver is still damaged even though everything came back normal?
Hi! Just got your message. I'm bumping this up for you. Not sure why you're unable to post a new question but I want you to have full support (not just mine!) ABN above is absolutely right re: the liver thing!
The symptoms you mentioned in your PM are pretty standard and I hear you when you say that RLS was the most debilitating for you. However! It doesn't last that long & there are a couple of things you can use to mitigate it. The first would be a Cal/Mag/Potassium supplement (powdered -- used as directed.) The other would be Neurontin, (generally prescribed for nerve-related pain) used just through your acute w/d's.
How're you doing, my friend?
We're here!
The symptoms you mentioned in your PM are pretty standard and I hear you when you say that RLS was the most debilitating for you. However! It doesn't last that long & there are a couple of things you can use to mitigate it. The first would be a Cal/Mag/Potassium supplement (powdered -- used as directed.) The other would be Neurontin, (generally prescribed for nerve-related pain) used just through your acute w/d's.
How're you doing, my friend?
We're here!
Do not rely on liver enzyme tests or an ultrasound for the true state of your liver. Those tests mainly pick things up in acute stages....I had chronic HCV for years with normal liver enzymes...Its true that a liver biopsy is the gold standard in diagnosing any liver ailments but I personally would go a more non invasive route. They have two tests now....one called the FibroSure which is a blood test that matches certain specks of your blood with blood from various stages of liver fibrosis. Then theirs the FibroScan which is a machine that scans your liver for fibrosis...but, its new and only some big city hospitals offer it. Personally, Id ask for the FibroSure blood test in your situation. They are performed at LabCorpse all over the U.S.
Right upper quadrant pain and nausea are symptoms of Tylenol overdose. Just because you overdose does not mean your liver will fail and you will die. Dont get me wrong...you very well can! You may be taking yourself right to the edge of it. Tylenol overdose usually affects the body for many days. Often times, the body and liver recovers but there may be one time that it doesn't.
"I am ready to put these nasty little demons down and take my life back. "
Thats great! Hope you stick around here.
Right upper quadrant pain and nausea are symptoms of Tylenol overdose. Just because you overdose does not mean your liver will fail and you will die. Dont get me wrong...you very well can! You may be taking yourself right to the edge of it. Tylenol overdose usually affects the body for many days. Often times, the body and liver recovers but there may be one time that it doesn't.
"I am ready to put these nasty little demons down and take my life back. "
Thats great! Hope you stick around here.
Geeze Melissa!
Wow! I'm so honored that you shared that. You are INDEED, self-aware ;-)
I don't under stand how I can be so tough and so weak at the same time, how I can sit here knowing that I am headed for hell and reach into my purse anyway like I am being controlled by some unseen force. But I guess that's just it isn't it? I am very self aware. Like to the point that I feel like I am going nuts sometimes.
I gotta' say that when I read that, a slow smile spread across my face (particularly the first & last lines.) -- it was like looking into a mirror. The middle section is the great 'mystery' of addiction -- for me, that was always the core of it -- how I could know something intellectually but not 'get it' spiritually. (i.e. that I was destroying myself.) Any 'education' I have comes from long years of use, watching others, research, my own struggles to get and stay clean & from what others have shared on MH. I think that final piece comes when we truly are able to admit that we're simply different from others -- that we must surrender completely. If you're tough, If you've got pride/defenses in place this can take quite a while. I hear you on the Xanax/alcohol period as being horrific. I think it's truly one of the most devastating combos out there.
RE; your question about Imodium & work. If you were - say - coming off M'done/Suboxone, etc. I'd be more concerned but hopefully, it should do the trick. I totally understand your worry though, I bartended and waitressed for many years. ;-)
Please, reach out to your bro & sister-in-law!! It will be such a relief & will help with the stress & guilt you're experiencing. The thing that I've learned during my year at MH is that while we fear judgment & condemnation for our use, what happens the vast majority of the time when we come out to those near and dear to us is that they're not so much bothered by the fact of the addiction but that we kept it from them for so long! (This in itself, the pride/shame/guilt are part of what holds us in a self-reinforcing cycle of use, self-recrimination, use!!) Secrets are poison to us!! So, if your intuition is that they'll be supportive, I urge you to lean on them. When you mentioned fearing the disappointment in your son's eyes, all I could think of was that that would happen if you CONTINUE are you are. NOT if you stop. He'll be proud of his mother if and when you decide as a family to share it with him. You're worthwhile & deserve to feel better about yourself. You've got your hands full, you're trying to do something way brave and positive, here. Let's Do it right. Let's make it stick ;-)
Wow! I'm so honored that you shared that. You are INDEED, self-aware ;-)
I don't under stand how I can be so tough and so weak at the same time, how I can sit here knowing that I am headed for hell and reach into my purse anyway like I am being controlled by some unseen force. But I guess that's just it isn't it? I am very self aware. Like to the point that I feel like I am going nuts sometimes.
I gotta' say that when I read that, a slow smile spread across my face (particularly the first & last lines.) -- it was like looking into a mirror. The middle section is the great 'mystery' of addiction -- for me, that was always the core of it -- how I could know something intellectually but not 'get it' spiritually. (i.e. that I was destroying myself.) Any 'education' I have comes from long years of use, watching others, research, my own struggles to get and stay clean & from what others have shared on MH. I think that final piece comes when we truly are able to admit that we're simply different from others -- that we must surrender completely. If you're tough, If you've got pride/defenses in place this can take quite a while. I hear you on the Xanax/alcohol period as being horrific. I think it's truly one of the most devastating combos out there.
RE; your question about Imodium & work. If you were - say - coming off M'done/Suboxone, etc. I'd be more concerned but hopefully, it should do the trick. I totally understand your worry though, I bartended and waitressed for many years. ;-)
Please, reach out to your bro & sister-in-law!! It will be such a relief & will help with the stress & guilt you're experiencing. The thing that I've learned during my year at MH is that while we fear judgment & condemnation for our use, what happens the vast majority of the time when we come out to those near and dear to us is that they're not so much bothered by the fact of the addiction but that we kept it from them for so long! (This in itself, the pride/shame/guilt are part of what holds us in a self-reinforcing cycle of use, self-recrimination, use!!) Secrets are poison to us!! So, if your intuition is that they'll be supportive, I urge you to lean on them. When you mentioned fearing the disappointment in your son's eyes, all I could think of was that that would happen if you CONTINUE are you are. NOT if you stop. He'll be proud of his mother if and when you decide as a family to share it with him. You're worthwhile & deserve to feel better about yourself. You've got your hands full, you're trying to do something way brave and positive, here. Let's Do it right. Let's make it stick ;-)
Thanks for all of what you said! You seem very educated on what needs to be done. Concerning my previous addictions, I started with xanax in 2004. I took it for anxiety, for which it helped. But I quickly stopped wanting to take a medication so I turned to alcohol. But that didn't work as well for the anxiety but since I was already hooked on both, I just did both. It was one of the most horrible times of my life when I was mixing those two things. I thought I was gonna die many many times and its a wonder that I did not. But I never, "abused" xanax. As a matter of fact, I took them either as prescribed or way less. Since I was addicted to them, if I didn't take one, I would have an anxiety attack. I met my current boyfriend at the end of 2009 and he absolutely hated the idea of me taking the pills so he asked that I quit. I told him to get ready for one hell of a ride! Lol! So I went to the doc and she prescribed Klonopin to ease withdrawals and instructed me to taper those starting immediately. It worked. But I kept drinking until January 2012. I was just tired of feeling like ****. I drank evey night. I drank beer and did it to get drunk. I also smoked cigarettes. One day I went to the doc and told her I was very moody so she prescribed Zoloft. The thought of mixing the new med with alcohol scared me cuz of went I went thru with mixing the xanax with alcohol. I quit drinking and smoking in the blink of an eye. I was done and that was that. It was so easy! Then last year in May 2012 I broke my foot. The doc prescribed the hydros. And now I sit here with y'all. I don't know how to stop this. The urge to take them is so powerful and I don't under stand how I can be so tough and so weak at the same time, how I can sit here knowing that I am headed for hell and reach into my purse anyway like I am being controlled by some unseen force. But I guess that's just it isn't it? I am very self aware. Like to the point that I feel like I am going nuts sometimes. I am also very prideful. I see some of my friends get on Facebook admitting to addictions and I tell myself that I will never let anyone know about this! And I cant, I just can't. If people find out about this I will have to move away. I can't destroy the good reputation that I have built among my friends and family. I can't have my son look at me with disappointment in his eyes. The only people that I can share this with is my brother and sister in-law. They already know that I take them, just not how much. They live about an hour away from me though. But they will help me in any way that they can. I bet my sister in law would even come stay with me if I needed her to.
Yes, I took the mag citrate so I could clean myself out. Since I went to the doc and he said that my organs were just fine, I figured since I haven't been using the bathroom normally that I was constipated and that it was making me sick. I don't use that stuff often. Its so nasty! Will immodium really work good enough to keep me out of the bathroom completely? I am a waitress so it would be so important that I seem as normal as possible. How long do you think it will take for me to get back to normal? I am so scared. Scared of what will happen if I continue this way of life, and scared of what will happen if I don't have the pills. That's why I feel like this addiction has been my hardest.
Yes, I took the mag citrate so I could clean myself out. Since I went to the doc and he said that my organs were just fine, I figured since I haven't been using the bathroom normally that I was constipated and that it was making me sick. I don't use that stuff often. Its so nasty! Will immodium really work good enough to keep me out of the bathroom completely? I am a waitress so it would be so important that I seem as normal as possible. How long do you think it will take for me to get back to normal? I am so scared. Scared of what will happen if I continue this way of life, and scared of what will happen if I don't have the pills. That's why I feel like this addiction has been my hardest.
Hi Melissa ;)
'Its effecting my relationship with my child in that we don't spend time together anymore and I'm very moody and emotional on or off the pills. I've gotten lazy and I don't ever feel good. I'm broke and I've pawned everything I own that has any monetary value. Its a disgusting thing. I'm not this kind of person. So I have to stop. I've battled alcohol and won. Ive battled xanax and won.'
First. thanks for your thoughtful individual responses above.;) I pulled this bit from your post as it really resonated with me and basically said it all. I hear you on the poly-abuse. (I'm like that too, minus the benzo + H & M'done.) I give you Huge Respect for kicking Alcohol & Xanax. (Btw, don't know how long you used either of these or if you used these concurrently but both are hard on the liver.) I dunno', but in my experience is that those are pretty 'evil' as well. (Hard to make a choice!) The thing is, I've come to realize that for those who abuse with multiple drugs, kicking them one at a time is a bit like transferring water via a sieve. We're always trying to find ways to change our chemistry be it 'cause of stress, boredom, sadness, anger or 'cause it's Earth Day. (There's always an excuse & always will be;)) So, the plain fact of the matter is that we've gotta' accept that we can't use PERIOD. We might fall on the journey (I know I have!) but we've got to keep moving forward and adjusting our game plan.
You sound pretty self-aware & I hear you on every point: You're sick to death with this consuming you/your life & are disgusted w/ the whole thing (including yourself.) That's exactly the descriptor that I used when I finally decided to do it!
I'm sorry that you have to work two jobs while doing this! Do you have support at home? Friends or relatives that you can reach out too? This is the wisest, most life-affirming decision -- probably the most important thing you'll ever do -- for yourself & your family. So, if you've made this brave commitment to take your life back -- you've got to be all in -- you've got to move heaven & earth to make it happen. Nothing is more important. The keys to a successful detox usually include: Careful planning, Understanding that you're an addict & always will be & what that entails, Soul-searching for your triggers/root causes, cutting any and all sources & staying away from people, places and things that have to do with use or could easily 'trigger' you, 'coming out' to those close to you & your doctor in order to protect yourself & get support, a good attitude & patience with yourself and the process & finally, some form of aftercare.
I would suggest reaching out to friends and family for help at home with cooking/cleaning/errands/childcare while you're going through this. You're going to need this help, not just physically, but emotionally as well. Would this be possible? I know you say that you can't miss work (& I understand!) but if you could schedule your detox so that -- say -- you start on a Thursday (don't take anything) & work Friday (as hard as that will be) Then, day 3 & 4 [usually the roughest] will fall on the weekend. It won't be a picnic but if you really want it, it's Doable. You deserve this!
Hey, may I ask why you were drinking Magnesium Citrate? That's pretty brutal stuff. It'll definitely give you the runs & possibly cause nausea and light-headedness unless used as directed. I hope you're hydrating (2 to 3 liters of plain water per day.) Did you take it because you were backed up?
Imodium will be your best friend at work during your kick ;)) I'm more concerned about the sweating, sneezing & fatigue you'll be experiencing than the runs. Do you think if they saw you in that condition that they'd send you home? (That might work.) There are other things that will help you during detox that we can talk about as you put your plan into place. I'm not sure what your typical dose is per day (I know you mentioned that you take whatever you can get [I hear you {smile}]) but if you're going to do this and you're down pretty low and have to work, I wouldn't taper. I'd just bite the bullet and get it over with instead of an extended period of feeling ill beforehand. What it really comes down to is sleep. If you're able to sleep while tapering then it's probably a good thing. If you're sick enough that you're not sleeping anyway, it's best to just toss the rest as you're not truly kicking 'til you go a day without anything.
Please, Melissa, let us know what you think & how it's going. You sound like a fighter & I want you to know that we're in your corner & pulling for you.
Annie
'Its effecting my relationship with my child in that we don't spend time together anymore and I'm very moody and emotional on or off the pills. I've gotten lazy and I don't ever feel good. I'm broke and I've pawned everything I own that has any monetary value. Its a disgusting thing. I'm not this kind of person. So I have to stop. I've battled alcohol and won. Ive battled xanax and won.'
First. thanks for your thoughtful individual responses above.;) I pulled this bit from your post as it really resonated with me and basically said it all. I hear you on the poly-abuse. (I'm like that too, minus the benzo + H & M'done.) I give you Huge Respect for kicking Alcohol & Xanax. (Btw, don't know how long you used either of these or if you used these concurrently but both are hard on the liver.) I dunno', but in my experience is that those are pretty 'evil' as well. (Hard to make a choice!) The thing is, I've come to realize that for those who abuse with multiple drugs, kicking them one at a time is a bit like transferring water via a sieve. We're always trying to find ways to change our chemistry be it 'cause of stress, boredom, sadness, anger or 'cause it's Earth Day. (There's always an excuse & always will be;)) So, the plain fact of the matter is that we've gotta' accept that we can't use PERIOD. We might fall on the journey (I know I have!) but we've got to keep moving forward and adjusting our game plan.
You sound pretty self-aware & I hear you on every point: You're sick to death with this consuming you/your life & are disgusted w/ the whole thing (including yourself.) That's exactly the descriptor that I used when I finally decided to do it!
I'm sorry that you have to work two jobs while doing this! Do you have support at home? Friends or relatives that you can reach out too? This is the wisest, most life-affirming decision -- probably the most important thing you'll ever do -- for yourself & your family. So, if you've made this brave commitment to take your life back -- you've got to be all in -- you've got to move heaven & earth to make it happen. Nothing is more important. The keys to a successful detox usually include: Careful planning, Understanding that you're an addict & always will be & what that entails, Soul-searching for your triggers/root causes, cutting any and all sources & staying away from people, places and things that have to do with use or could easily 'trigger' you, 'coming out' to those close to you & your doctor in order to protect yourself & get support, a good attitude & patience with yourself and the process & finally, some form of aftercare.
I would suggest reaching out to friends and family for help at home with cooking/cleaning/errands/childcare while you're going through this. You're going to need this help, not just physically, but emotionally as well. Would this be possible? I know you say that you can't miss work (& I understand!) but if you could schedule your detox so that -- say -- you start on a Thursday (don't take anything) & work Friday (as hard as that will be) Then, day 3 & 4 [usually the roughest] will fall on the weekend. It won't be a picnic but if you really want it, it's Doable. You deserve this!
Hey, may I ask why you were drinking Magnesium Citrate? That's pretty brutal stuff. It'll definitely give you the runs & possibly cause nausea and light-headedness unless used as directed. I hope you're hydrating (2 to 3 liters of plain water per day.) Did you take it because you were backed up?
Imodium will be your best friend at work during your kick ;)) I'm more concerned about the sweating, sneezing & fatigue you'll be experiencing than the runs. Do you think if they saw you in that condition that they'd send you home? (That might work.) There are other things that will help you during detox that we can talk about as you put your plan into place. I'm not sure what your typical dose is per day (I know you mentioned that you take whatever you can get [I hear you {smile}]) but if you're going to do this and you're down pretty low and have to work, I wouldn't taper. I'd just bite the bullet and get it over with instead of an extended period of feeling ill beforehand. What it really comes down to is sleep. If you're able to sleep while tapering then it's probably a good thing. If you're sick enough that you're not sleeping anyway, it's best to just toss the rest as you're not truly kicking 'til you go a day without anything.
Please, Melissa, let us know what you think & how it's going. You sound like a fighter & I want you to know that we're in your corner & pulling for you.
Annie
EvolverU, no worries my friend! It does look like Marc! Lol! Its a mix between my first name, Melissa, and my brothers middle name. Please call me Melissa everyone! I am about to be 34 yrs old and have been taking the pills for a little over a year, but heavily for about 4 months. How would I go about getting a biopsy? Can I just request one? Thanks for your reply. I Like your energy. :)
Ben, I do have pain from a broken foot, bursitis in my shoulder, and arthritis in my spine. Neither one are severe enough to justify the amount of meds that I take though. I could probably be just fine with a couple of ibuprofen. Thanks for responding!
WalkTall, wow! I am so glad you made it through that. The human body is a very amazing thing. Everyones strength is different though. Just because you made it doesn't mean I could, and I realize that. My organs may not be as tough as yours. I am so glad you were able to quit too. Congratulations!
DominoSarah, I'm so sorry to hear that you are hurting. I'm glad you are not using anymore and I wish you weren't suffering with the kidney problem. I am glad though, that you are still here with us and are trying to help people like me! Thank you!
I am really very ready to stop this mess everyone. Is just getting to be too much. Its effecting my relationship with my child in that we don't spend time together anymore and I'm very moody and emotional on or off the pills. I've gotten lazy and I don't ever feel good. I'm broke and I've pawned everything I own that has any monetary value. Its a disgusting thing. I'm not this kind of person. So I have to stop. I've battled alcohol and won. Ive battled xanax and won. But this, its different, it is more evil.
Anyway, I drank some magnesium citrate yesterday and used the restroom all night. The pain is little to nothing now and I'm not having any nausea at this time either. I'm attributing all of that to using the bathroom because it's the first time I haven't hurt in about a month, maybe even two. Can y'all please give me some advice on how to get through this with having 2 jobs and a family? I can't take off any time from work or life for that matter. I have to keep on truckin'. Will letting someone hold the remaining pills and dispensing only as needed be a good idea? I'm most worried about the diarrhea at work, but also the anxiety because I already suffer with anxiety. Thanks again everyone!
Ben, I do have pain from a broken foot, bursitis in my shoulder, and arthritis in my spine. Neither one are severe enough to justify the amount of meds that I take though. I could probably be just fine with a couple of ibuprofen. Thanks for responding!
WalkTall, wow! I am so glad you made it through that. The human body is a very amazing thing. Everyones strength is different though. Just because you made it doesn't mean I could, and I realize that. My organs may not be as tough as yours. I am so glad you were able to quit too. Congratulations!
DominoSarah, I'm so sorry to hear that you are hurting. I'm glad you are not using anymore and I wish you weren't suffering with the kidney problem. I am glad though, that you are still here with us and are trying to help people like me! Thank you!
I am really very ready to stop this mess everyone. Is just getting to be too much. Its effecting my relationship with my child in that we don't spend time together anymore and I'm very moody and emotional on or off the pills. I've gotten lazy and I don't ever feel good. I'm broke and I've pawned everything I own that has any monetary value. Its a disgusting thing. I'm not this kind of person. So I have to stop. I've battled alcohol and won. Ive battled xanax and won. But this, its different, it is more evil.
Anyway, I drank some magnesium citrate yesterday and used the restroom all night. The pain is little to nothing now and I'm not having any nausea at this time either. I'm attributing all of that to using the bathroom because it's the first time I haven't hurt in about a month, maybe even two. Can y'all please give me some advice on how to get through this with having 2 jobs and a family? I can't take off any time from work or life for that matter. I have to keep on truckin'. Will letting someone hold the remaining pills and dispensing only as needed be a good idea? I'm most worried about the diarrhea at work, but also the anxiety because I already suffer with anxiety. Thanks again everyone!
COMMUNITY LEADER
My kidneys took a beating during my use and i felt the way you do. I am now battling a bad kidney. Please get off this rollercoaster ride to hell you are on. Talk honestly with your doctor and come up with a good recovery plan.
I took an average of 25 Norcos per day for 5-years. Think about it - that's over 8,000 miligrams of acetaminophen daily, AND I usually mixed the pills with alcohol.
Got my liver checked every 6-months, and miraculously, no elevated enzymes or signs of trouble. That's a true testament to the resiliency of the human body.
No doubt, however, that the liver can't take that type of abuse long term. I would have died if I hadn't quit.
Having someone hold them is a great way to keep your usage down! Do you have chronic pain? Have you looked into alternative ways to manage it? If you want to quit taking those pills, read through the posts here, and keep posting yourself! It's usually slower on the weekends. And take note of Evolver's post above - while I doubt taking vic's for a year is causing liver issues, you should keep a close eye on it.
Geeze! So sorry to call you 'Marc' when you're actually 'Meric79' -- All Apologies! (everyone here is used to my mistakes..hope you'll stick around long enough to tolerate them too!) Again, thanks for posting... ;-)
Hi there, Marc! Welcome & I'm so glad that you posted. : -)
You say you're having upper right quadrant pain? How long has this been going on -- & is it specifically located there? I'm not sure how old you are or how long you were using pills -- but this sort of pain is usually a warning, even if undetected in a blood panel. What you should know is that the numbers in these unspecific panels are rather 'loose' and don't indicate anything but 'acute' or escalating abnormalities (as opposed to developing/incipient infection/disease.)
What I'm trying to say, is that I've learned -- (after many years of liver 'kick - back' ;) -- to do the research, talk to other people in the same boat & research as much as I can.. YOU know what you're experiencing. (I suffer from a lackluster liver & my symptoms include fatigue, nausea, etc.(so, I'm with you, my friend !)
The true 'gold standard' for a liver exam is a Biopsy -- without that, not much can be truly determined.
Hey, it's verrrrrrrrry likely that you're absoutely fine -- We're here! ***** Annie
You say you're having upper right quadrant pain? How long has this been going on -- & is it specifically located there? I'm not sure how old you are or how long you were using pills -- but this sort of pain is usually a warning, even if undetected in a blood panel. What you should know is that the numbers in these unspecific panels are rather 'loose' and don't indicate anything but 'acute' or escalating abnormalities (as opposed to developing/incipient infection/disease.)
What I'm trying to say, is that I've learned -- (after many years of liver 'kick - back' ;) -- to do the research, talk to other people in the same boat & research as much as I can.. YOU know what you're experiencing. (I suffer from a lackluster liver & my symptoms include fatigue, nausea, etc.(so, I'm with you, my friend !)
The true 'gold standard' for a liver exam is a Biopsy -- without that, not much can be truly determined.
Hey, it's verrrrrrrrry likely that you're absoutely fine -- We're here! ***** Annie
Thank you. I'm really wanting to, very badly. I don't enjoy them anymore, they are more of a pain in the *** than anything. They don't make me feel good. I have quite a few left from my scrip and am thinking of letting someone hold them for me and dishing out only ones absolutely needed. Like 1 or 2 so I won't crap on myself at work.
Anything is possible, but based on what you describe, it's likely your liver is fine. Long-term opiate use can back up your GI tract. If you had an ultrasound and bloodwork, you can be pretty certain your liver is fine (for now). I'd be willing to bet you're feeling some intestinal pain.
I can't tell you have much better my life has been since I quit. I hope you chose to make that happen soon!
I can't tell you have much better my life has been since I quit. I hope you chose to make that happen soon!
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