Aa
My Dr. response
I told my former addictions Dr. that I've been taking Methadone (10-20mg) for the last 5 weeks... I was expecting him be angry with my actions, esp. the fact I've obtained them illegally. He was was fine with it! Other than breaking the law of course, he said had I gone to a methadone clinic as I'd planned, I'd be up to 150mg my now. He said it'd have taked a year to get off it. He was happy I haven't used vics for over a month. He said now the plan should be to come in on the 1st of Oct. and switch to a low dose of Sub. for the remainder of my taper, and maybe 'short' maintence.
My dealer even called today and I told her no again... Something I NEVER would have done before....
Any thoughts or opinions? I'm still VERY VERY scared of meth/sub w/d....
My dealer even called today and I told her no again... Something I NEVER would have done before....
Any thoughts or opinions? I'm still VERY VERY scared of meth/sub w/d....
I wish I would have studied methadone better, before I got on it. i went through hydro wd's probably 20 times cause I ran out of pills........it always $uckd bad, but after 12-14 days I seemed like I was back to normal. I only wd from methadone once.........and it was back on june 3rd. I use to taper off the vikes, and it worked better for me in the past. I made the mistake of doing a short fast taper on the 'done. IT was a nightmare compared to hydro wd's. had every wd symptom you have heard of, magnified to the max. 2 weeks later I was wondering ,wtf????? man is this dragging on!! my brain/body must have went into fight back mode eventually.........after two weeks of no sleep, It finally started forcing sleep. I swear it takes 4-5 times as long. two months to get your bowels back to normal??? thats F-D up. I still sneeze now and then, and I never had allergies my entire life.
not trying to freak people out, but I think its important to understand how it works, so a few weeks down the road,your not freaking out, and you realize its just going to take longer. us 'done addicts have to really earn it. But many have done it, and like I have often said..........there are many more WORSE things that you could be going through!!
the experience may have actually helped, believe it or not. I have zero desires to touch any pills now,because of it.......
btw, I posted a thread about the govt study on methadone.....http://www.gao.gov/htext/d09341.html
docs have been prescribing it for pain !!! its use has gone up 8 fold since the 90's
thats f-d up.........once again, a messed up doc system
not trying to freak people out, but I think its important to understand how it works, so a few weeks down the road,your not freaking out, and you realize its just going to take longer. us 'done addicts have to really earn it. But many have done it, and like I have often said..........there are many more WORSE things that you could be going through!!
the experience may have actually helped, believe it or not. I have zero desires to touch any pills now,because of it.......
btw, I posted a thread about the govt study on methadone.....http://www.gao.gov/htext/d09341.html
docs have been prescribing it for pain !!! its use has gone up 8 fold since the 90's
thats f-d up.........once again, a messed up doc system
I hate to see vicodin addicts become methadone addicts. I think you said you are getting your meth from the street and that's not good but the clinics of today have many vicodin addicts and encourage them to get on and get sucked into the system. The only thing better about methadone is that it doesn't have liver killing tylenol in it. In some cases this may be a good choice in the harm reduction sense but in most cases methadone for vicodin is like trying to put out a fire with gasoline. I belive methadone has a place in the treatment of more serious hard core addictions like heroin, and high dose oxy etc. but I don't like to see vicodine addicts get on meth or sub maintenece in most cases. There are always some exceptions. all the best
Everyone is correct here... please try to stay as far away from methadone and those clinics as possible!
The clinic I went to basically let me dictate my own dose... because I was private pay and paying out the ears each week for the methadone.
I started methadone on 25mgs daily, and over my 6 year "Career" at the clinic managed to get up to a prescribed daily dose of almost 700mgs daily.
I wont begin to get into the horrible horrible side effects that this had on me, and all the negative ways this impacted my life.
I was lucky enough to have some strong will, and supporting family and over the course of a year I tapered down from 700mg to 30 mg, and then did my 40 hours of no methadone and switched to Suboxone.
The changes have been amazing, and while I did struggle for awhile with abuse of the suboxone as well, I am again very close to completeing my suboxone taper.... Its not been easy, nor w/d free. The w/d's from sub are quite uncomfortable, but very different from full agonist w/d's. I would say for me, there has been no stomach cramping, diarrhea, vomiting like with the other drugs Ive w/d'd from. Its more of an irritable, sleepless, wanna jump outta your skin feeling is the best way I can describe it. Keep in mind that this is after being on sub for 2 years. Follow your doctors advice, and stick to a short taper if you can handle it! Im sure you will make it through this like a champ!
Best of luck!
The clinic I went to basically let me dictate my own dose... because I was private pay and paying out the ears each week for the methadone.
I started methadone on 25mgs daily, and over my 6 year "Career" at the clinic managed to get up to a prescribed daily dose of almost 700mgs daily.
I wont begin to get into the horrible horrible side effects that this had on me, and all the negative ways this impacted my life.
I was lucky enough to have some strong will, and supporting family and over the course of a year I tapered down from 700mg to 30 mg, and then did my 40 hours of no methadone and switched to Suboxone.
The changes have been amazing, and while I did struggle for awhile with abuse of the suboxone as well, I am again very close to completeing my suboxone taper.... Its not been easy, nor w/d free. The w/d's from sub are quite uncomfortable, but very different from full agonist w/d's. I would say for me, there has been no stomach cramping, diarrhea, vomiting like with the other drugs Ive w/d'd from. Its more of an irritable, sleepless, wanna jump outta your skin feeling is the best way I can describe it. Keep in mind that this is after being on sub for 2 years. Follow your doctors advice, and stick to a short taper if you can handle it! Im sure you will make it through this like a champ!
Best of luck!
Don't stay on the methadone for a long period of time, It will be the worst. Read more info and stories on this site. Someone posted before when you get to the point of addiction you pay for your choices there are no get out of jail free cards. You will go through wd's it will be tough but don't swap the vics for sub or methadone that's my advice. But if you can't keep yourself on the right side of the law take them but becareful if you can give someone close to you your meds and have them give them to you it may be the best thing for you. I never got over 60mg per day on methadone, most days I stayed at 40 my dose was nothing compared to most here. That was only 4 pills per day, 4 per day and my wd's were the worst. I had it easier coming off of Fentynl, Follow Gnary_1 start tapering you can do this!!!
Quick,
I just wanted to clear up a large myth regarding suboxone and subutex that came up with your advice to the OP.
You stated that there is a drug in the suboxone that "Pulls" the methadone out of their system... to try subutex, and that it wont do that.
Very wrong on both accounts my friend. You are indeed correct that Suboxone contains the drug Naloxone which is a Opioid Antagonist used to reverse the effects of opiates and opioids. However when suboxone is taken the correct way (Orally) the Naloxone in the pill is completely inert.... does not effect you at all.
The reason is that Naloxone has a very poor bioavailability through the oral mucosa, meaning that it absorbs very poorly and minimally through the lining of the mouth. Naloxone in its clinical form is in that of an IV injection used for Opiate overdoses. Naloxone was added to the Suboxone tablet to discourage crushing the tablet and using it intravenously, as Buprenorphine is very strong when used IV. When the pill is crushed and injected, you are injecting Naloxone directly into the bloodstream causing two reactions. #1 Rendering the injection completely useless as the Naloxone cancels out the Buprenorphine High, and #2 will put the user into immediate precipitated withdrawals.... which is much more unpleasant than typical w/d's that come along over days.
However you are correct in a way that the Suboxone will cause w/d's. As will the subutex also. The active drug Buprenorphine Hcl is itself a partial Opiate Agonist/Antagonist. Basically meaning, it can stimulate your opiate receptors, as well as block them and put you into w/d. The only time that Bupe acts as its own antagonist is when the Opiate receptors are already or partially occupied by opiates.
So for example.... a person that does not abuse nor have any tolerance to opiates, and hasnt taken them in some time. If that person were to take a Suboxone or Subutex... They would gain quite significant pain relief, as well as euphoria. The amount of Euphoria varies per individual, however it is thought to be quite the high producer as Subutex is a huge problem of abuse in Europe. This lead to the manufacturers creating suboxone as a more "Smart and safe" drug.
This is why the doctors state that you need to be in mild to moderate w/d's to begin taking Buprenorphine to avoid the chance of experiencing precipitated w/d's. However I must stress, there is not timeline for this to occur. Too many times have I heard clinics tell patients they must abstain for 2, 3, Ive even heard 5 days before starting treatment. This is unnecessary and borderline abuse, no reason to torture yourself like that. As long as you are experiencing moderate w/d's, and score a moderate on the COWS scale, you are good to go.
Sorry for the long post, I just felt I had to clear up that myth of suboxone and explain exactly how it works, as it seems none of the docs prescribing it can even explain it to their patients!
Best of luck!
I just wanted to clear up a large myth regarding suboxone and subutex that came up with your advice to the OP.
You stated that there is a drug in the suboxone that "Pulls" the methadone out of their system... to try subutex, and that it wont do that.
Very wrong on both accounts my friend. You are indeed correct that Suboxone contains the drug Naloxone which is a Opioid Antagonist used to reverse the effects of opiates and opioids. However when suboxone is taken the correct way (Orally) the Naloxone in the pill is completely inert.... does not effect you at all.
The reason is that Naloxone has a very poor bioavailability through the oral mucosa, meaning that it absorbs very poorly and minimally through the lining of the mouth. Naloxone in its clinical form is in that of an IV injection used for Opiate overdoses. Naloxone was added to the Suboxone tablet to discourage crushing the tablet and using it intravenously, as Buprenorphine is very strong when used IV. When the pill is crushed and injected, you are injecting Naloxone directly into the bloodstream causing two reactions. #1 Rendering the injection completely useless as the Naloxone cancels out the Buprenorphine High, and #2 will put the user into immediate precipitated withdrawals.... which is much more unpleasant than typical w/d's that come along over days.
However you are correct in a way that the Suboxone will cause w/d's. As will the subutex also. The active drug Buprenorphine Hcl is itself a partial Opiate Agonist/Antagonist. Basically meaning, it can stimulate your opiate receptors, as well as block them and put you into w/d. The only time that Bupe acts as its own antagonist is when the Opiate receptors are already or partially occupied by opiates.
So for example.... a person that does not abuse nor have any tolerance to opiates, and hasnt taken them in some time. If that person were to take a Suboxone or Subutex... They would gain quite significant pain relief, as well as euphoria. The amount of Euphoria varies per individual, however it is thought to be quite the high producer as Subutex is a huge problem of abuse in Europe. This lead to the manufacturers creating suboxone as a more "Smart and safe" drug.
This is why the doctors state that you need to be in mild to moderate w/d's to begin taking Buprenorphine to avoid the chance of experiencing precipitated w/d's. However I must stress, there is not timeline for this to occur. Too many times have I heard clinics tell patients they must abstain for 2, 3, Ive even heard 5 days before starting treatment. This is unnecessary and borderline abuse, no reason to torture yourself like that. As long as you are experiencing moderate w/d's, and score a moderate on the COWS scale, you are good to go.
Sorry for the long post, I just felt I had to clear up that myth of suboxone and explain exactly how it works, as it seems none of the docs prescribing it can even explain it to their patients!
Best of luck!
my relapses' always were from 3-5 weeks and now I've been on the meth for 5 weeks... 5 weeks clean from vics... it is the only reason I haven't used, good or bad... 5 weeks on Meth ----> I'm sure I'll have bad w/d if I stop
yes you are right... I did abuse it, but I wasn't really involved with any aftercare to speak of.. I know this whole thing ***** but I really think the meth saved my life... I DON'T want to taper off with vics again but, then again, now I'm scared of this meth w/d and how strong it is... ARGH!!
both methadone and sub are way over used,like mrlucky said.
addicts lie, and often they think everything is all peachy when they start the program(because their brain is still hog tied by the replacement narcotics) so rather and do whats right, going through the eventual wd's, they pick the easy route...... they come up with reasons to keep taking the pills for long periods and suddenly are feeling all washed out........then they wind up worse than they were too start with.
addicts lie, and often they think everything is all peachy when they start the program(because their brain is still hog tied by the replacement narcotics) so rather and do whats right, going through the eventual wd's, they pick the easy route...... they come up with reasons to keep taking the pills for long periods and suddenly are feeling all washed out........then they wind up worse than they were too start with.
were you on hydo before methadone? I hope not but it happens all the time hydo addicts become meth addicts then they really have a problem. It's not that I have a problem with meth it's just that it was intended for much heavier addictions but it is overused as is sub. I don't like to see hyro addicts go on meth or sub maintenence because they could be creating monster in many cases. all the best
Why did you start the meth for? what was your addiction before the meth? Before starting the sub you will have to start wd from the meth. You just mite as well just keep going with the wd instead switching over to the sub. I am not a sub supporter and wouldnt recommend it with the lo dose of meth you are taking. Its never a good idea for an addict to switch to a stronger and higher dose of a drug. Just be strong and do what needs to be done. Good luck and you have a lot of support here for you.
COMMUNITY LEADER
I thought you had been the sub route too. Are you doing any aftercare?? I hope you get off this roller coaster ride soon Kfred....You gotta find out what is keeping you in its grip. sara
Kfred ,you arleady tried the sub and ended up abusing it. Is i am wrong plz let me know but i thoughts that was why you stoped taking it .
I agree that tapering the Methadone may be an option, but you need to follow the doctor's recommendation. What he will do is basically switch you over to Suboxone. You wan't really have to be "completely" off methadone. You will have to quit taking it for 2-3 days until you go into withdrawals. At that time, the doctor will do the induction with Sub. From there, he will probably stabilize you and then start weening your from the Sub. Sub is a much more convenient med to take and would be better for you in the long run. Hopefully, you'll ween down enough so that the withdrawals will be minimal at best.
hi...hey your methadone use is realy small right now if i where you i would just taper off the methadone do it like 2 mg a week till ya hit 10mg then 1mg a week ...Ive been rushing it a bit dropping ever 72 hr ( a formula given to me by a neonatal nurse that brings babys off heroin) its a doable taper but sometimes your body needs a week to stabilize
now im at 4 mg im on day 7 of my taper was having alot of withdrawals this week but
there manageable , just been ackey and alot of axzity but remember im coming of 150mg
my withdrawals are probly going to be worst then yours,you have only been on it for a short time get off it as quickly as possible and it wont get its hooks in you that deep
the taper withdrawals are not unbearable just uncofortable so just tuff it out and youll be doing yourself a HUGE favor good luck ...you can do this.....Gnarly
now im at 4 mg im on day 7 of my taper was having alot of withdrawals this week but
there manageable , just been ackey and alot of axzity but remember im coming of 150mg
my withdrawals are probly going to be worst then yours,you have only been on it for a short time get off it as quickly as possible and it wont get its hooks in you that deep
the taper withdrawals are not unbearable just uncofortable so just tuff it out and youll be doing yourself a HUGE favor good luck ...you can do this.....Gnarly
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