My experience with buprenorphine

[Bodymechanic]

I am posting this for anyone who might benefit from my experience.  If you have been around here any length of time you know my story. Here it is anyway.  Fourty eight year old chiropractor with chronic pain in shoulders, wrists, hands, neck and back from 15 years of practice (being a chiropractor beats the hell out of your body). Long history of drug abuse,  depression, sleeplessness and burned out on anti-inflamatories and cortisone.

It has been over 10 days including the "detox" that I have been on buprenorphine.  So far it has been a god send for me. There are a few reasons why; 1) It completely took away all of my withdrawal symptoms from both ulram and oxycontin 2) I have very little physical pain, anziety or depression 3) I tried to take an ultram while on the buprenorphine and I felt real shitty for about 5 hours(great news for me, I won't try that again) 4) I tried to double the dose from 2mg to 4mg and I felt really shitty for about 7 hours (even better news for me, I won't try that again either).

My experience so far is that it works and there is no point in my abusing it. It only makes me feel worse.  Still, I know how I am and I have it under lock and key with my wife giving it to me in the morning. So if you havent found something that works for you yet, keep trying.  There is something out there for you if you just keep looking.  Like they say in AA, don't give up before the miracle.

Peace

[LizzardDMT]

If i get back on methadone to stop taking the buprenorphine that i will have a addiction of buprenophine if i taje methadone for 20 days on a dose of 2 ml per day an agin taje the buprenorphine for 6-7 days my question is that i be clean for all two of them if i do that .Thank's please informe if i ahve effects of this programe.reggards

[hyjack]

That, I haven't a clue.

I was naive to buprenorphine until it was prescribed to me.

I had intended on getting off methadone completely when it was prescribed to me.  When I weaned the buprenorphine to 4 mg. per day, my back pain broke through to the point that I could not manage/handle it.  When I went back up to 8, I felt much better.  I do believe, though, that I am developing a tolerance to it, since I am having a lot of breakthrough pain at night.

I think I will probably be on it indefinitely.  My back pain has worsened with each year that goes by. Getting old sure creeps up on you!

[Bodymechanic]

Do you know if the liquid buprenorphine sublingual can be injected?

[gem1angel]

Hi, If I remember right i tapered down 2mls every 3 days untill i got to  3mls then went down 1ml a week, I think it was something like that.

Good luck...Gem

[hyjack]

May I ask what your taper schedule was?

I am taking 8 mg. per day, so I don't know how that compares to injectible.  Mine are compounded for me, used sublingually.

Thanks

[gem1angel]

Hi, I just wanted to say that I was on bup (subutex), I took the last sublingual tablet on the 1st of september, this year.
Firstly I was on 60mls of methadone, I tapered down to 30mls and changed to 2mls of subutex, the first day and went up every day until I reached 7mls, stayed at that dose for just over a month, then came down.

I didnt sleep very well at all for the first month and a half, but its much better now, its been 3mths and 10 days since i,ve been off subutex, and the only symptom i,m still having is restless legs, i still feel as if i have an electric current going through my legs but its much easier compared to what it was.

I take daily vitamins and go to the gym 3 times a week,  i also eat loads of bananas, If anyone knows of something to help with the restless legs, i would be extremley gratefull.

Thanx, Gem

[Rex1]

I am happy you are here, because it gives the rest of us hope.

To just hang in there and take it one day at a time is working the system.  Think of the following example.  Have you ever been running late to go somewhere, and the anxiety starts running wild in your mind?  Well, don't you feel better once you're on the road, knowing that you've taken the first step, and if you keep driving eventually you will arrive at your destination.

You're on the road bud...

Rex

[FINISHED?]

Hope is great!!!
I'm shooting more for giving some STRENGTH!!!
I had no one around & it was hard to say the least. I found this site & much like you said about the store calling your name, the site called mine. Please feel free to ask me any questions. If I can help, it'll push me that much farther towards my goals of helping those that need it. If nothing else, I'm good for the cold turkey, unmedicated detox...I'll call it the FINISHED RECIPE. Best part is...IT'S FREE. IT KINDA HURTS THOUGH.

TAKE CARE.

[FINISHED?]

Again...there is nothing wrong with tapering. You WILL always get a million different pieces of advice...especially here. The advantage that WE have over the doctors is that we are or have been exactly where you are. The one thing you need to remember more than anything is that regardless of how you do it, your doing it!!! You have taken the biggest step...Some say the hardest. You can taper, use methadone, bup or snort freaking Drano if it will ultimately get you clean...I don't recomend the Drano...it'll probably kill you but I'm just trying to get the point across to you G. As the Bodymech said, stop beating yourself up & start patting yourself on the back. The sooner you do that, the better you'll start feeling.

Rex, you're welcome. I think it's good that two people can have two different views on things & it not turn into a "pissing match" as I've seen here before. The ONLY reason I'm here is to help with my own experiences. I've been clean a long time & plan on staying that way. Scratch that...I'm also here to stick to that statement & the members strength here has helped me to see the error of my ways & has made me even more determined to stay clean. I don't want to be misconstrued as "a perfectly recovered addict in my own mind..." I know the road ahead is long & I'll need help just as others do...I AM FAR FROM PERFECT!!!

[G-rhymes]

I don't know what to do? doc says one thing some say somthen else all I know is I want to stop. whatever is best?All i know is i feel like ****

[Thomas02]

Hi G,

Sounds like life stinks right now. This may be too late for your doctor appointment today, but considering your age and length of time on Oxys, without some help, you're going to get much worse before you get better. A supervised Buprenorphine detox would be just the ticket for you. Perhaps your doctor can bill it in such a way that detox doesn't show up in your medical records.

I have a method for self-detox from opiates. However, it still requires you to obtain one prescription drug. It's posted a lot on this forum but I will send it to you if you write to me at:

***@****

In the meantime, stop beating yourself up for becoming addicted to oxycodone. You are in very good company, believe me. You don't need to be looking to abuse or become addicted to drugs to get reeled in by Oxys. Oxycodone is so powerful, especially as delivered by OxyContin chewed, snorted or shot, that the drug does all the work. You need to know that being an addict in itself is not cause for shame. You've recognized your mistake and are now trying to do something about it. You've also confided in your father, which, assuming he's supportive, is even better. So, give yourself a break. You're doing what you need to do now. Sure, it would be nice if it just went away like a bad night of drinking, but you're coming off a year-long habit. It's going to take a lot of small steps toward your goal now. Believe it or not, you've already taken all the big ones!

As I said, a bup and clonidine detox would be very nice right now if you can get it. Use of Bup for detox is still new to this country, at least to the medical establishment. Let me know if you want the recipe. Even if you do a medically supervised detox, there are still measures in the recipe -- physical and nutritional -- that can help you recover your energy and morale after you've weathered the acute withdrawal phase. I'd repost it here, but people already have it coming out their ears at the forum. Good luck at the doc's.

Thomas

[2bpainfree]

Hello all,

Just wanted to post to say I am on Day 3 and doing OK.  I flushed all remaining opiates Monday and even if I wanted more I have no more to take.  

G-Rhymes - Hang in there, it will slowly get better each day.

Rex1 - Thanks for your posts and words of encouragement, they really do help. Please let us know how your doing, your on day 16? now....

Methman - thanks for the post, the questions to asks yourself really helped me keep strong.

As far as Buprenorphine goes, I have used this in the past to detox off hydro and it is wonderful, no withdrawal symptoms.  The trick I learned was to buy only 50 tabs at a time for each detox, this helped me keep it under control.  The problem is , it is really difficult to find now, most sources I know of are dry.

Good luck to everyone in the forumn and I hope we are all still on track to a pill free 2003.  I will be doing my best...

Take Care and God Bless.

Brian

[FINISHED?]

Alright,
  Here's the plain, harsh & simple facts. Alot of people here will say things like you HAVE to taper before quitting. This is NOT true. Some people probably should taper because it will be easier to stick to the recovery. Withdrawls from opiates such as vicodin or oxy are no more physically dangerous than having a bad case of the flu. Mentally, any shock to your system can throw your emotions through a loop but you need to handle that area the best way you can. I stopped an abuse schedule of 20 to 30 vicodin es 7.5/750 a day COLD TURKEY! I am still alive & here to share this with you. You're damn right it hurts & it sucks but it's really no more than uncomfortable for a few days. I not only detoxed drug free (other than immodoim for the squirts) I also got through the emotionally hard times drug free. I'm not saying that taking Prozac or other mood altering drugs is wrong. Like I said...DO WHATEVER YOU HAVE TO DO TO GET CLEAN! What I'm saying is that it can be done drug free, therefor a taper program is not necessary for ALL. If you honestly feel that you can't make it through a couple more days of being sick, then by all means, taper away. If you need to take Prozac to feel better in the head, there is nothing wrong with that & absolutely no shame in doing so. You need to get clean. How you do it is up to you.

Again in regards to your friend. He is entering a profession that many would kill to be able to make money in. Riding a dirtbike has made me well over 5 million dollars in my 8 year career. I ruined that career by taking pills. Granted, I am a physically beat up individual & the cause was the motorcycle itself but this is where my addiction started. It took about 6 years of honestly taking the medication responsibly before the abuse started but it started nonetheless. If your friend wants to ride professional motocross, he better clean up because you can't do it while on pills. Trust me...I know. His motivation & training regiment will suffer. The most important thing in riding & actually being able to compete at a professional level is TRAINING. Anybody can ride a dirtbike. Get your friend on track...no pun intended. He will kick himself everyday he has to punch a timeclock because pills were more important than his potential career. I'm lucky enough to still be in the industry & still able to make money riding...but nowhere near the money I made winning a Supercross. He as at the beginning. He will not be as fortunate as me. I rode for many years before becoming addicted so my contacts were established. Kick him in the ass if he wont do it himself!!!

[FINISHED?]

I don't know much about Bup but it seems that everybody is so quick to use that or methadone for detox. True, it may work wonders but the fact of the matter is, it's another narcotic. It's like using heroin to detox from asprin. I don't believe that any opiate withdrawl that you people have experienced was any worse than mine. It SUCKS to say the least but I can't see why everybody is so quick to recomend narcotics to a drug addict. Just my opinions. Maybe there's something about this drug that I don't know about that makes it better for you than any other narcotic.

[G-rhymes]

I just got back from the doc and she wouldn't give me anything. the doc is a personal friend of my mom who is also one. even she told me to take a quater today and see how I feel. I am so confused...
FINISHED- I really don't want to take any other meds to kick this, I know myself and I would abuse them. Thats so sweet that you got that high up into motorcross. my friend is so good too, theres know tellin how far he could go
Thomas- I would take any advice you can give me as far as your recipe

[Thomas02]

What a chilly reception you got at the doc's. That's about what all addicts come to expect. Generally, you need to go to an addictionologist to get a civil reception. If you think you can do this yourself, e-mail me at ***@**** and I'll send you the recipe. It comes with full instructions for using each of the ingrediants. I'm sure you'll have some more questions, though. I'm around if you need to talk about it. The thing is, you're so young, and your habit is not THAT long. If you can get off this stuff now, you have a good chance of recovering fully. In my case, that ship sailed a long time ago. I've used for 30 years and really can't remember what it was like to be normal. But you don't have to take that road. Not yet.

Thomas

[Rex1]

So I am not disagreeing with Finished? Instead, think of it as the other side of the coin.

To me the cool thing about tapering is, ya get to take drugs while your doing it! Just a pill or two less per day. This is what worked for me. Just setup a schedule and tell yourself, today I can take drugs, and say that everyday. That's not so cataclysmic as today I am taking 12, and tommorrow I am going to take ZERO. Just tell yourself that you CAN AND WILL take the lowered amount today or you will be faced with cold turkey - which sounds better.

Also, it makes no sense to me that over a three year period I upped and upped my dosage slowly but surely, but now I am going to jump of the perverbial cliff to go to zero in a 24 hour period. It took time to get to the level your at, it makes sense to slowly get down to a normal or lower level when clearer thinkg will prevail and then you can go from one to zero instead of 12 to zero.

There are several advantages to finished's approach though. If you can tought it out, I think his mehtod would have the shortest run time from start to finish. Its likely over sooner, so if time is an issue, consider ct.

Second, it has more of a finality factor to it, and I know this will sound wierd, but the immense pain you may go through can actually serve as a warning that "Holy **** I aint never going through this again". I got that feeling on taper though as well...

What we are saying is look at both plans and see which one, for you, has the highest likelihood of succeeding. Note, I did not say, which one you like best. The tougher road may be the better road because it will be the road you never want to drive again.

Again not disagreeing with Finished, but tapering worked for me...

Rex

[FINISHED?]

That's pretty much exactly what I said just reversed. Like I said, you must do WHATEVER you need to to get clean. Tapering can work great if the person has the discipline to do so. Myself, I wanted to learn the hard way & I did. If I thought I could effectively detox tapering, I would've jumped all over it. Every way I've heard here of detoxing definately has their pros & cons...even the bup & methadone. However, I would recomend tapering or cold turkey highly over taking a traditionally stronger narcotic to get clean. I strongly believe in the taper method for those who can. For those can't, cold turkey.

[Rex1]

Finished - thanks.

I believe I can speak for Finsihed? when I say, whatever method you pick, we'll be here if you have questions.

Good luck and God's grace and love...

Rex

[Bodymechanic]

I have been debating writing this post for a long time because I did not want to discourage anyone.  First, let me say that anyone who has been clean for even a day has reason to be proud. Keep up the great work. Share your experience and hope with others.

Unfortunately, there is a much larger issue at hand.  The fact is that we have all stepped over a line that once crossed there is no going back. Whether by choice or through a medical problem we have all developed an addiction problem that will most likely haunt us the rest of our lives. You can refuse to accept your addiction, never talk or even think about it again, but it will always be there. Drop your guard for just a minute, make a bad decision and it will be right back at you.

What I mean is that sobriety is a marathon and not a sprint race. Myself and most long term addicts have many years of sobriety between relapses.  I myself can get through a year with absolutely no problem. It is sobriety over time that is so difficult to maintain.  The important things to remember are
1)If you relaps and statistically you most likely will, don't be too hard on youself.  Especially, don't let pride stand in the way of getting the additional help you need. 2) Have a plan for what you will do when things get rough, surgury, pain or just a bad day. 3) Return to this board or go to an NA meeting once in a while.  It will help keep your past fresh in your mind. 4) If you have a sense of spirituality now is the time to practice it.  God has a way of keeping us clean when all else fails.
5) Read some of the books recommended by Dr. Horvath (our board consultant). Knowlege is power.

As for me, I am a hopeless case.  I am on buprenorphine now.  The only way I think it can end is me retiring. Since my wife recently had a baby girl, I dont see that happening anytime soon. For me the equation is simple. If I want to work and do a good job, I need pain medication.  The challange is to somehow learn to use it responsibly. Through gods grace and with the help of my wife, I am hopeful.

[G-rhymes]

I have to go to the docter right noe.I will right when I get back.

[Bodymechanic]

IMHO taper or substitute with another medication that is not cross addicting and will make you more comfortable.  There is some evidence that suggests that people who taper or substitute have better long term outcomes than people who go cold turkey.  There is definately less of a chance of a full blown relaps if  you take it slow. Also, and I don't want to sound like a crazy person, but I have read that going cold turkey creates a sitution in the brain similar to post traumatic stress disorder.  I will look for the exact details but that can't be good.

[teeitup]

Thanks for the commit about not beating yourself up over relapses. I'm on day three of tapering a 6 year ES habit an 27 years of always having something in my system. Today I had to drive 3 customers I don't very well on a 180 mile buisness trip, I hadn't had an ES for 12 hours and was going crazy. I brought one with me to use as proof to myself I could bring it and not take it. After about an hour/half of driving I could not stand it, I took it. I dogged myself so bad for being week. Thanks for the back up!

[G-rhymes]

No!! that doesn't sound good at all. I have been taking 2 80's of oxycontin for about a year. I thought I should try 1 then 3/4 then 1/2 then go through whatever the affects are after that becuase even my doc said tapering might be a good idea.