Need help getting off methadone.

[niccee]

I have been watching the interaction here for awhile. I think ya'll are great. I need help getting off methadone. I also want to know what to expect. How long will the depression last? When do you start feeling better? I know this is different for everyone, but I need some guide lines. I got down to 10 mgs last week and felt really depressed, so I went back up. I started using pain meds for a legetimate reason. I had severe nerve damage in feet. Had several surgeries. Then it became a bad habit. I used for about 7 years (oxy's, lorcet). I got on a methadone program that worked really well. I have been on methadone for about 2 years. I started at 80 mgs and am now down to between 30 and 20 a day. I really need and want to be off of this. Can anyone help?

[cindi]

Hi Niccee.   I have to agree with you re; the forum and the interaction, I have been to other forums and this one here is awesome...the people are great and we really genuinely care about each other...of course not everyone,... but for the most part this is so true....I personally don't know much about methadone but i was wondering if you go to like a methadone clinic or if you are prescribed them by your family doc...If you go to the clinic or whatever aren't they the ones that help to wean you off the meth?  That's how I always thought it worked...as far as depression like you said everyone is different...I was lucky, coming off of Opiates a few times I have never experienced the depression that people talk a about,,as a matter of fact it was quite the opposite,,I had more energy than I knew what to do with....so, we really all are so different...Thomas and a guy named spook talk about the L-tyrosine, and essential amino acid the replenishes endorphines etc. that opiate use depletes our bodies of....4000 mg on an empty stomach with vitamin B6 to potentiate the effect of of the tyrosine...Thomas swears by it, so do several other people here...that should help in the energy department...Thomas can probably help you out better than I can, or at least he can point you in the right direction...(HI THOMAS)  good luck to you and have nice holiday      Love to all cin

[niccee]

I started out at a clinic and they helped alot, but I as driving for almost 3 hours a day round trip. I did this for months and it just got to be too much. I am now getting them from a dr, but he does not know much about addiction, so I am kinda winging it.
Where I am from there is only 2 clinics and they are both in the same town. The government seems to think we don't need anymore.
Thanks for the other info. I am going to the store to get some now and see how it works. I am so glad you did not face the depression. That has always been my problem. Thanks again. Have a great Memorial Day.

[goldfish]

Hi Niccee.  Sorry I don't have advice for you on getting off the methadone, but I was wondering if I could ask you a couple questions.  I've been addicted to pain meds since I was 15-I'm 31 now.  I take around 15-20 Lorcet Plus a day and it seems like I've tried almost everything to get off.  I read this board religiously and try most of the suggestions given to people asking for help. I've been thinking very seriously about driving 3hours a day one way to the nearest methadone clinic because I can't seem to get past the depression that comes after the physical withdrawals from pain meds.  Everytime I quit I find that I cannot make myself get out of bed all day, and that feeling never seems to go away, so I always start using again.  So I guess what I'm wondering is...Did the methadone help at first?  Did it make you feel like you could lead somewhat of a normal life without pain meds? What has made you decide you need off the methadone?  Sorry so many questions, you're the first person I've seen on the board who is currently taking methadone, so I'm hoping to gain some knowledge from what you can tell me.

[Francoise]

I was very happy to read that you were able to get off opiates without the depression. You many remember that I've been taking oxycontin for over two years for nerve-involved back injury. And the oxy works. I just hate being on it.

Getting off oxy is becoming something of an obsession for me. I don't know quite what's motivating it. It works for the pain, and I don't know if I got off if I could handle the physical pain. I guess I want to get off because I feel so damned vulernable. Vulnerable to very unlikely things: I'm arrested going through a podunk town and kept in jail for three days with no medication; there's a communist take-over of the government and all us right-wingers who essay against socialism on the net are rounded up and incarcerated - no drugs; hell - earth is invaded by little green men who put people in the mothership - no drugs. If you're going to engage in fantasy you might as well go for the gold :).

And then there's the mood swings. I don't seem to be able to stablize on a decent mood and stay there. It's up and down all the time. (*****, moan, *****, moan).

Can you tell me about how you got off absent depression? What were you on and for how long? Etc. You have my email address don't you?

Francoise

[cindi]

No,  I don't have your e-mail address...but would appreciate it ver much if I had it  :)  I have always enjoyed reading your posts...i had been on various things for about 10 or 12 years  just dabbling though...then in 1988 0r 89 i started taking narctoics from the hospital and was shooting myself full of demerol, morphine,  dilaudid etc.. as well as sleeping pills, shooting nembutal just a bunch of ****...I was pretty much forced into treatment by the hospital...I don;t know how i skipped the depression,  maybe because i was in detox for 2 weeks the first 3 days i have no recollection of,  then i spent the rest of the time in the rehab,,maybe i went through my depression during the time i was using as I was not using to get high anymore, but to keep from getting sick   I was using astronomical amounts,,,and was very depressed while using,,,so after i got clean i was totally happy just to be free...I really had never even thought about it until you brought it up...i also had alot of things happen in my life prior to my heavily abusing which is why i started pumping my body full of anything and everything...to ease the pain and depression....does that make sense?  i guess i was so happy to be off the ****   hmmm  this makes me think....and after treatment all good things came my way....i met a ton of new freinds, had my job back,,,got married had a baby then i relapsed got arrested   felonies  etc...but nothing major  no rehab again or anything like that...maybe i was just lucky?  have a great holiday,,,,and send me some mail   i love e-mail  LOL    love to all cin

[cindi]

I had been using the demerol etc.  for about a year before i got caught

[Pillpoppa]

Hi Niccee,

What you need is zinc/magnesium available at any supermarket (it is here in New Zealand anyway). Take 2 tablets a day or double the usual RDI (recomended daily intake) for a week or so then drop back to 1 tablet a day as normally prescribed. You will then be able to stop taking the methadone - heroin - clonazepam - cocaine - codeine or whatever without any problems. What seems to happen is the drugs leach these minerals from our bodys over time presumably because of an increase in metabolism. This is why it usually takes a year or two to come right (after a serious habit on something like methadone) as the only source for these minerals you have is food and it is only present in tiny amounts. This is why when you first start using you don't hang out as the body has a good store built up over a lifetime but this rapidly gets depleted and over time becomes more and more critical so your 'habit' is harder and harder to get rid of. When you 'hang out' the body is actually craving minerals (to produce dopamine etc) not drugs - the drugs themselves are not addictive in the sense we have been led to believe ie. makes changes to the way the brain functions. Obviously if you take zinc/magnesium with your drugs you can go on using but not hang out if you stop. I've checked this out myself and it's true. I have used for 15 years everthing you can name (7 years on the methadone included at 100m) but I'm straight now and it only took a cheap bottle of tablets from Woolworths to do it painlessly where everthing else not only failed but made me suffer 2 weeks in a row without sleep - followed of course by depression and fatigue that never totally went away no matter how long I behaved myself. To not prescribe zinc/magnesium tablets for drug withdrawl is like asking someone to fix their broken leg with positive thinking instead of a plaster cast - plainly stupid.

[Francoise]

Hi Cindi:

Thanks for your note. I've been wanting to set up an address that I could easily check when I'm out of town and don't have my computer with me. So I did. And here it is:

***@****

Please write to me and let's establish a short conversation about this depression thingy!!

That post about magnesium and such was very interesting. Given that the medical profession seems so disinterested in Ibogaine and in fact hostile to it, there's no telling whether or not trace elements plus tyrosine and B6 might just work very well. But since it's not an expensive, in-house, exotic treatment they can charge an arm and a leg for (gotta make payments on that Porsche), they're not interested. It wouldn't be the first time.

Commenting on another, earlier post, the warning from the web folk. I have to agree with Thomas. Dr. Steve's posts are always the same: very small shot of commiseration, generic warning, go see your local doctor, don't bother me any more, end of report.

Yes, Thomas could do better, and has.

Loooking forward to hearing from you soon.

Francoise

[Dee]

JB,Wizard,Brighty,and the many more that at this moment I can't find the memory or strength to write, but you all know that I mean everyone..I haven't been on the PC in over a week, forgive me for not taking the time right now to read the new threads..I promise to try to make a long story short and to the point..I had to renew my medical insurance, and because Iam now $22.00 over the income limit,I have become only one of the many, many people who fall inbetween the cracks,they are discontinuing my health insurance..we appealed it, which only buys us a few more weeks,Iam trying to refill as many prescriptions that I can..it's not just the oxycontins and the xanax that will be taken away from me, I have four (4) pills that I take for my heart alone, not including the Nitro Patch, Nitro Pills, three (3) inhalers among other meds that I need..this is what has been happening, I was taking four (4) 80mg oxy's a day, I have always admitted to all that I abused them (crushed)the last week,I have gone from crushing 4 pills through the day, down to 2 a day, then breaking one 80mg into 4 pieces, I had Ultram 2 days to help somewhat, I started the imodium before I even had a twinge, which stayed on top of the runs before they even started..I felt horrible, I needed help to go from the bedroom to the bathroom,I know that everyone said that it would feel like a very bad case of flu, which it did,I believe that I went through most of that, but...because of the severe PVD in my legs,I could not walk at all without pain, the pain in the legs was horrific,I also have always had stomach trouble,but what I have and am going through with the stomach is not just from withdrawing,about 4yrs ago, I had upper GI and doc went down the stomach with the scope took a picture (wasn't pretty back then)and did biopsy (sp)I had multiply ulsers, he wanted to go up the other end with scope and I never went back..the pain Iam going through now with my stomach tells me something is wrong,and the pain in my legs tells me something has been happening and I think the oxy use has been 'covering up'the disease as it's been progressing, I mentioned awhile back that I had angioplasty (3balloons) in right leg and eventually need bypass in left leg,as far as the chest pain I have been experienceing I don't know if it's gas build up or the oxy use has been 'covering up' something..I know it's hard to believe, but it's true when I say, it's like labor pains, even though I have had a heart attack, I still don't know what the 'real' thing is..like no matter how many kids you have, each time your in labor, you still say 'I don't know' here is where I stand, as I said we bought ourselfs a few more weeks, I was able to get another script for oxycontin, but Iam now NOT CHUSHING, Iam swallowing them like I'm suppose to..I'm a complete mess right now,I'm crying all the time, I'm so emotional, I'm up and down, even comercials bring on feelings that make me upset!and again I'll say the pain I'm feeling is unbearable, I dont know what to do,should I continue to swallow my oxycontin? should I start weaning myself,(though I was and it still was unbearable) I only bought myself a few more weeks,we got a readout from the pharmacy to see what all my meds cost, I almost died on the spot, my meds alone come to over $2,000 a month!! our income is only $1,500 a month from my husbands SSdisabity, all this for being a lousy $22.00 over income limit,please someone try to give me some feedback..I just don't know what to do, or where I should even begin!please forgive me for this being so long, I have no one else to turn to, to talk to
Peace to All
Dianne

[cindi]

Thanks for the address,  I have posted mine here before,   ***@****  used by birthday as my numbers, this way I'll constantly be reminded I'm on the downside of 40  LOL   actually, my kids  7 and 3  keep me young.....you know,, I say things like potty, and watch blues clues and sponge bob square pants,,anyway,  the zinc magnesium sounds very interesting,,being a Nurse, (not working as a nurse) for many many years, I have always believed in many alternate methods of treatments for alot of things, and If they told me that I had cancer or any one in my family had it, I would be on the firstplane out to one of these countries that has the cure....but,  don't get me started on this subject....Francoise,   I just wanted to tell you that since you have been posting here, I have enjoyed reading all of your posts.   you are very interesting and have much to offer here....please, Ihope you never find a reason to stop visiting here......I look forward to hearing from you    love to all

[cindi]

My God,   My heart goes out to you,    We have talked before via e-mail re: your cardiac status and how much withdrawals your heart could take,  given all of your medical problems PVD etc..now the abdominal pain of unknown etiology...I would hesitate before telling you do anything as it may put in in jeopary of really hurting yourself...I would continue to take the oxys (whole) not crushing them and high tail it to a good physician and lay your cards out...very good possibility you are mask
ing alot....Little story  I'll keep it brief,,,,Nurse goes into treatment,,detoxes for 3 weeks from massive amounts of demerol etc....one week after detox she turns yellow, eyes are jaundice, urine is dark brown, abdominal pain is excruciating,,,,goes to hsopital,   Gall bladder totally blocked with many many stones,  now affecting the liver  masked for a very long time by the opiates....the end....very possible...now,  my mom prior to her death was unable to get good insurance because she was terminal but  she did manage to get some and they did pay for some of her meds...Anthem Senior Advantage..her meds totalled about the same as yours, 2 inhalers, and about 8 to 10 different pills a day and later on Oxycontin, Ms contin and the oxy IR, vicodin  etc...plus cardiac med, breathing meds  the works. $2000 a month..there is also one I see on TV  the people's prescription plan,  there has to be help for your meds out there?  have you tried contacting the department of human services?  medicaid? medicare?  there has to be help...Diane, I am very very concerned about you... after reading your post my mind is going in a million different directions...the pain, PVD, cardiac etc...tomorrow  get in to see someone who can help you in every aspect, with meds....the reason you want off the oxy's is the price?   obviously you need something for the pain,  how about something less expensive?  regular percocet?  Maybe someone out there has better ideas but you need to rest, lay low and get in to see someone   that is my main concern right now....chin up, and if you need anything you have my address,,,,,love to all    cindi

[Milo]

First of all, bless your heart. It is nothing short of *criminal* that they would cut off your insurance when you obviously need so many meds to maintain good health and functioning. A friend of mine has a doctor who gives out generous free "samples" of (non-narcotic) meds -- maybe yours would be willing to help you out until you get this thing sorted out? I don't know what the legal/official channels for persuing something like this are, but anything is worth a shot. I wish you good luck in resolving this problem.. Milo

[niccee]

I actually got started on methadone by accident. I had a relative who had them and gave them to me. I started taking them along with my lorcets and oxy's after a few months I noticed that I was only taking methadone. I ran out of the methadone and it was going to take me 2 weeks to get more so I decided to go to the clinic, just to tide me over. They explained to me what had happened. I had actually accidently detoxed myself. THE LORD HAD A HAND IN THAT. I decided then to really straighten myself out. My clinic made you go to AA and NA plus they gave us one on one counseling. I got a great education. Can you live normally without pain meds? You bet! For years I never went to a doctor that I did not come out with pain meds. In the last year and a half I got pain meds only once, last month for a kidney stone and I didn't even take all of those. Its great not having to think about where your next bottle is coming from. It was amazing the amount of time I spent getting my dope. I was not getting high from it, I needed it just to feel normal. Now I feel normal with just 20 mgs of methadone a day and it is not the first thing I reach for. There are a couple of reasons I want off methadone. One is with all this self searching I have done in the last couple of years I have decided to change careers I have a degree in education (high school). They are going to drug test me for school. By the way if you are on a program and have to be drug tested they give you a note saying you are a methadone patient and they are not suppose to hold it against you. I just don't want to take and chances. But the main reason is I am just ready to be off everything. I have been on drugs for 8 years now and I am ready to start a new life. But I am also willing to stay on methadone forever if need be. I am sorry so long I hope I answered your questions. One more thing. All those lorcets were damaging my body. My kidneys stopped working right. My legs would swell all the way to the thigh. My kidneys hurt all the time. So please rememeber all that tylenol is not good for you. Anyone can email me at ***@****.

[niccee]

Thanks! I am on my way to the store now.

[niccee]

I said a prayer for you just now. My mother in law draws $950.00 from my late father in laws social security. She was paying $400.00 a month for meds then her doctor got her into this program that pays all but $50.00. I am not sure what it is, but you might ask. Also the individual drug companies have programs to help people with their meds. Look up the company that makes yours and see. I will see if I can find anything else out. I started out of college in a job where the insurance was free and in 6 years I was paying $300.00 a month just for me. The insurance companies are KILLING people and our stupid government does not care.

[goldfish]

Thanks so much for your response.  It sounds like methadone could help me.  I can't keep going like I am or I'm gonna wind up in jail--I'm not exactly getting the lorcets on the up and up.  I worry that I'll lose my job if I have to drive to a clinic every day, but I really don't know what else to do.  Do you know if you can get started going every day to a clinic and then maybe get your meds weekly or can they work with people like that?  Again thanks for your reply, you've given me some hope that maybe I can start to get on with my life.

[niccee]

I know at the clinic I was going to after a certain amount of time and I think it was 30 days if you lived more than 75 miles away (that is one way) then you could get what they call take outs. You only had to go once a week and they opened up at 5:00 am. I know people who drove from another state to get theirs because at the clinic I was going to they were really nice. They were strict, but treated you fairly and with respect. Do like I did? Look up the clinics on the computer and get their number and call and ask. Hope it helps. Good luck. If you think of anything else let me know.

[pinky to rebecca]

hi niccee

i have a boyfriend on 20 mg of methadone a day. he came down from 70 mg, had been on 70 for almost two years, then the clinic weaned him down. he didn't feel any withdrawal effects until he hit around 30 mg.

i wanted to write you because he recently went to a doctor for a prescription for buprenorphine. he, like you, wants to be completely clean and done with everything.

the buprenorphine is said to flush the methadone out of your system, so when the treatment is completed you will not feel the withdrawal.

i'm not a big fan of covering up one addiction with another drug, but i am going to support him in this.
maybe it's something you should look into.  
i've heard nothing but positive things.  
the cat

[Pillpoppa]

Hi Niccee,

If you feel any discomfort at all when you stop the Methadone just resume taking it and continue with the zinc/magnesium at 2 - 3 per day ( breakfast/lunch/dinner as you should always take them with food) for another week or so then stop the Methadone again and see how you go. It's just a matter of getting the levels back up from their current low. I only discovered this myself recently but so far I have cured 4 other people (all men)and we all have noticed that not only do we not hang out - we feel better than we have ever felt before. I speculate that our original problem was zinc/magnesium deprivation and this led us to use as a kind of self medication that turned into a catch 22 situation. Women's formula zinc/magnesium tablets are available so you should probably get those. Any problems or questions just leave a note here and I will get back to you. I am about to take my findings to our local A & D clinic so I would like to try this on as many people as possible before I meet with them on the 15th of June - you are only the 6th person to try this (the first female) treatment to my knowledge so I am keen to hear back from you about your experience of it.

[cindi]

is this combo of zinc/mag suppossed to take away the shaking, etc. when withdrawing...sweats, restlessness, aggitation...man, this sounds too good to be true....thanks   love to all   cin

[Pillpoppa]

Hi cindi,

It takes away everything except slightly sweaty hands (probably due to the body doing a bit of house cleaning). I have withdrawn more times than I care to remember mostly by myself and it's something you have to experience to fully appreciate - 3rd degree burns probably the only thing worse. Some people have described quite mild symptoms here (increased energy etc) but this is because they are only touching the tip of the iceberg. If you are doing a force 10 hang you can forget about sleep altogether for at least 11 days - then the real work starts.
I still keep pinching myself to check it's not a dream so I totally understand peoples skepticism. Try it for yourself you'll find it works as described. I don't know why the medical establishment have'nt worked this out - I could only speculate.

[Pillpoppa]

Hi cindi,

It takes away everything except slightly sweaty hands (probably due to the body doing a bit of house cleaning). I have withdrawn more times than I care to remember mostly by myself and it's something you have to experience to fully appreciate - 3rd degree burns probably the only thing worse. Some people have described quite mild symptoms here (increased energy etc) but this is because they are only touching the tip of the iceberg. If you are doing a force 10 hang you can forget about sleep altogether for at least 11 days - then the real work starts.
I still keep pinching myself to check it's not a dream so I totally understand peoples skepticism. Try it for yourself you'll find it works as described. I don't know why the medical establishment have'nt worked this out - I could only speculate.

[jennyfla]

I'm with Cin, I just think this is great if you are right, and it really works; what a wonderful thing.
I bought some mag/zinc which also comes with calcium (which i need anyway), so i'm up to try it believe me!!!
I pass along information to other people who wish to stop this madness of addiction, and if this works, i want to thank you so very much for sharing this incredible knowledge with us all!  
If i can get through this, and help my husband save himself, i am committed to helping others fight this horrible life of addiction in any way possible.
I want to help heal some of my deep inbedded wounds by helping others, because this is the only way i will be able to keep my sanity someday.
First, i need to help myself (for me and my children).  I pray to god (all of the time, he's probably getting tired of hearing from me), but i pray to find the strength to beat this, i'm still not too far gone, my usage is minimal enough.  It's all the damage in my personality that i worry about.  I need to change myself bigtime, and get the counseling and support that i need to get through it.
Thank you to everyone on the board who has given me support, it is priceless.  Better than winning the lottery!!!!  
I know where 'hell' is, it's right here, and i want OUT!!!!  I'm too good for this life, what a waste!
Thank you again, i'll let you know how it goes.
My suitcase will be packed with L-tryosine, B6's and mag/zinc, you can be sure of that!
Lv Jenny

[Thomas]

zinc and mag, huh? Why haven't we heard of this before? Of course, I only recently got put onto the L-Tyrosine/B6. By the way, what do you think of that stuff for recovering from opiates?

Here's something I heard recently. When you take the typical hard-shelled vitamins, the metabolic action required to break down the pill destroys most of the minerals/vitamins it contains. Believe it or not, the hot ticket seems to be Flintstone chewables! I haven't checked any of this out, but it is thought provoking in a paranoid sort of way.

Peace down under,

Thomas