Problems with tapering

[bodybuilder1]

Does anyone have any tips to help with the sometimes overwhelming desire to overuse when one is tapering? When one is using indescriminately, one tends to just use as much as possible but when tapering, it is obviously necessary to only use part of what one has and save the rest for the forthcoming taper. The problem I seem to have is that when I have used my daily dose, the temptation to "dip into" tomorrow's dose is sometimes overwhelming. I have arrainged with my doc to only receive 2 or 3 days at a time of my methadone so things can't get too out of hand but I still sometimes struggle. Since I have no-one to help I can't give my next days dose to someone to keep for me - I'm on my own. Does anyone have any tips to help overcome temptation and stick rigidly to a taper. God bless, Graeme.

[bodybuilder1]

Problems with tapering continued......
I tried buying a strong box and locking the next days dose in that but since I held the key that didn't work (hey CATUF - you were right man!!). I know at the end of the day it comes down to willpower but I would be really greatfull if anyone had any tips that could help me with this. The fact that I really want to succede but am constantly struggling is tearing me up inside.
God bless all,
Graeme.

[AddictedLovers]

you know what graeme?...you already know what you have to do...you know what you want your future to be like...you already know all the answers to all your questions...

you are a bodybuilder?...so you know the discipline it takes right?...apply that to your personal life, and im sure you will do great...you are stronger than you know...we all are!!!...

im on suboxone, so i dont know about tapering, but i absolutely know about temptation...just focus on your future...put those goals in the fron of your mind and you will make it!!!...

keeping you in my thoughs and prayers!!!...love, natasha

[FLaddict]

wish i had some tips for you... I have just been using shear willpower... and this forum.. everytime i want to take extra.. i get on a read about someone else that has just came on and is at 60-100mgs a day, i am down to 7.5 mgs as of yesterday.. i read their stories and as much as i may want that extra half or whatever. I want more to not go back to where i was.. its been a long month.. tapering does take willpower i ain't gonna lie or sugar coat it.. I sit here now typing this to you.. have only taken 2.5mgs... two months ago i would have taken 10mgs by now.. i have chills, nausea, all of it.. i just made a cut yesterday..

[beachtowel]

The problem with tapering is doing extras just because.
You still have access to narcotic pain pills, your still fighting cravings and willpower. Most of the times you fold, its the nature of the beast.
I tapered for about 8 or 9 presciptions and then didn't stop anyway.
Tapering is the most unsuccessful way to stop, sorry....

[beachtowel]

If your willpower was enough that would be so great.
Unfortunatly even the strongest willpower can be Compromised by so many different Justifiable reasons, we as addicts most of the time eventually fold.......

I am not saying it can't be done but willpower alone to stop using is not very successful........

[hellc@mst]

first beach.can u qualify yr comment 'tapering is the most unsuccesful method u know" with ne science.u have been dropping sum really toxic remarks here lately.didnt u taper of the subutex/suboxone while in dtox.
hey Greame.i dont know if this is an option 4 u but i arranged to pik up my dose mon-fri at my chemist.this removes the temptation of dipqing into the next days dose.its a bit of a pain having 2 go each day but well worth it.

[beachtowel]

Yes I put the truth out there and only speak of myself and other long time addicts.
I went into a detox finally because taping down with my percs or whatever I always failed.
I was specificly talking about tapering down with  narcotic pain pills.
I also have completed two inpatient drug rehabs and one was for 6 months with a lot of Doctors and theropists giving us facts.
I put the truth out there, many of the percentages I put out are by doctors and drug theropists who have been doing this stuff for a very long time.

Hes a percentage you probably won't like.....
Two out of every Ten people who quit taking narcotics and attend a inpatient drug rehab will not relapse when they leave the rehab. That is from a rehab Sacred Heart one of the best drug inpatient rehabs in Michigan...

[beachtowel]

Your right I will come on strong when people come on here and are selling pills or asking how long a medication will stay in their bloodstream because they are worried about a positive drug test.

Do you approve of these things? I don't.......

I have 16 months and days of clean time, I was an addict for many many yrs, probably longer than most peoples ages are on this site. I'm not your mother and won't baby anybody. A lot of people ask me direct questions and I try to answer them. I started an online NA meeting here and will continue because people here want me too.
I try to help people if I can....The only thing important is Recovery, everything else is secondary...

sorry if you disagree with me.........

[bodybuilder1]

Thanks for your reply. I used to pick up every day at the chemist also but I work full time and it was difficult if not impossible to combine the two. I now pick up monday, wednesday  and friday. If it was any drug other than methadone, I would quit cold turkey. When I was on morphine and oxy I did this many times and while it was hard you're over the wordt in bout a week so it is doable. Methadone however, if far, far more difficult to quit cold turkey. The withdrawls last months not days. I've tried quiting methadone cold turkey several times and it is virtually impossible. I mean it is possible to put up with feeling like death for 6-7 days but 6-7 weeks is a different animal altogether. What I am going to do is switch to subutex when I get down to 30mg (I'm currently on 100mg and dropping 5mg per week). I guess I just need to be stronger and remind myself how much I want this. It's funny when people say to me "why can't you use some of the disciplin that you've shown with your bodybuilding and transfer it to your addiction" (I am a former national contest winner here in the UK). God if only it were that simple. Living on nothing but dry chicken breast, brown rice and broccoli 7 times a day for 6 months is a piece of cake compared with kicking methadone - ha ha! Today for example I got 2x100mg bottles of methadone from the chemist this morning and took 1 (my daiy dose) straight away. The temptation I felt to dip into that second bottle was so intense it was all I could think about at work. I lasted until 6:00pm then I caved and took 70mg. That only leaves me 30mg for tomorrow and I feel so guilty and ashamed for doing it. I suppose what I am asking for are some tips to resist when that temptation feels so overwhelming it is almost eating you up inside. Anyway, I've babbled enough. Sorry to go on so long and bore everyone. Anyone who manages to stay awake long enough to read this then I thank you with all my heart. This addiction is tearing me up inside  and makes my life feel so pointless and futile. As I sit alone in my appartment writing this I feel lower than I ever have in my life. There has to be more to life than this. God I feel so depresses. God bless you all, Graeme.

[sawthelight]

I keep my pills visable and look at the clock in anticipation of relief.  I am tapering off of V's with V's nothing else. I have gone from 12 a day to 4 in a 4 week period..its great. I tried the C/T but almost went nuts..but thats me!  I was to go to a SUB clinic but had to be clean for 48 hours, after 13 I was out of my mind and decided to taper...it is the best for me. I put my pills out in the am and dont feel so lost. I keep remembering the time that I C/T'd and am thankful not to have that feeling again. I know that soon I will be able to feel normal by this taper and it is going well for me!  I wish you the best.  

[hellc@mst]

hey Greame.i really do understand yr dillema.i think we are both searching 4 answers to the same questions.i have been reading danthorpes? posts about distraction techniques and wonder if this could help u.good luck matey.

[DAnthrope]

Y'know I wanted to avoid this forum. The one sure thing about the internet is that no matter where you go there's someone who will attack you for posting an opinion that differs from their own. And this place was no different.

But part of my recovery/therapy is to try to help others in their own struggle, as I have been helped in mine.  So, I'll post a few words here in the hopes that some comment I make may help you Graeme & Hellc@mst.  Sincerely that is my only goal.

When I see people make statements (alledged factual objective statements) such as: "Tapering is the most unsuccessful way to stop"
it makes me angry beyond belief.  How many poor souls out there who CANNOT do c/t and have tried, will read this tripe and believe it, and feel overwhelmed with hopelessness?

In reality, tapering is the most unsuccessful way to stop --FOR HIM--.
PERIOD.

What's my answer? Simple. I HAVE AN OPINION, not a statement of fact.

Here's my opinion: THERE IS NOT ONE SOLUTION, and so far, I have YET TO SEE ANY EVIDENCE from credible sources that can back up his claim.

Tapering works for some.  Not for all.
C/T works for some. Not for all.  

Which is more effective?  Perhaps our scholarly hero can post some scientific data to back up his claim.  But better that you see the REASON he makes that statement.  It's simply really.  It's the admitted doctrine of NA that you go cold turkey and admit that YOU have NO power over the drug. Their statement is that you go c/t or nothing. Period.

Tapering by it's VERY DEFINITION, requires that YOU reclaim your POWER to tame your addiction - ONE SMALL BABY STEP AT A TIME!  Does it work for everyone? NO. I said that. Does it work for some, yes beyond debate.

Here's my suggestion: READ READ READ - Read the independent studies of AA/NA that provide statistics.  Read the studies of quitting cold turkey versus tapering.  Do what you can, do what works.  But PLEASE, don't buy the "statement of fact" by people who cannot back it up with evidence - cold hard scientific evidence.

PS: Lots of successful taperers here, me included although admittedly only approaching day 8. But w/d symptoms are almost ZERO.

As for my redirection/distraction technique, don't take my word for it.
Prove it for yourself. See my post to Tink down below. Try the test.
I give you a 3 second test to try to prove the concept for yourself.
And- I did not invent this- there is a whole world of scientific study that proves these concepts!  I'm no scientist (well I'm a computer scientist I suppose but you get my meaning!).  Go prove it for yourself. It works.

Peace
/D

[bowhunter71064]

im no expert i believe to each his own.the only thing you really need is support anyone be it here a family member or meetings or god. it all comes down to that. think about it what are we here for?dah    the bowhunter

[hellc@mst]

beach,yr inference that buprenorphine(subutex/suboxone/temgesic)is not a narcotic painkiller is just wrong and i think u hav been misinformed.my new ethicals(nicked out of a doc surgery)published in november/06 lists buprenorphine as a narcotic analgesic.this book is the prescribing bible in my part of the world.