Starting suboxone on Monday - can I take?

[JENN5]

Something to help while I go through the withdrawal period - the time before I see the doc.  So I'm talking Sunday night and Monday.  I have Ativan and I also have Valium.  I talked to the nurse briefly and tried to call today but they are closed.  I asked her if I can take a sleeping aide and she said yes anything that does not contain opiates.  However, I've been reading and reading about suboxone - withdrawal - you name it (the past few days - ever since I was brave enough to make the decision to get off my norcos) and it says see a doctor and be careful about taking these other meds.  So now I'm unsure.  Maybe I can take them but just not once I start the suboxone.  Not sure.  So my first question:  CAN I TAKE ATIVAN OR VALIUM OR SOMETHING SIMILAR TO HELP ME THROUGH THE WITHDRAWAL PERIOD?

Also, the nurse said I have to wait 24 hours before I come in and see the doc and take the meds - so that I'm in withdrawal.  Know what withdrawal is like I am TERRIFIED.  So I was thinking I'm supposed to stop the meds at 2pm on Sunday for my doc appt at 2pm on Monday.  I'm wondering if instead I can stop at around 6 instead. Meaning I would be off for 20 hours instead of 24.  My thinking - research shows the methadone and heroin etc stay in longer but norco not as long.  So maybe they are just being safe by having the 24 hours directions.  I wonder if I can get away with only being off for 18-20 hours.  It would be so much easier I think and anyway I would still be going through withdrawal by 2pm on Monday cuz I start feeling bad after only a few hours of not taking anything.  But I dont want to get really sick either if I take the sub and it's not been long enough.  SO GETTING OFF NORCOS DOES IT REALLY HAVE TO BE A FULL 24 HOURS OR CAN IT BE A LITTLE LESS TIME FOR THE WITHDRAWAL?

[eliminnopee]

LISTEN TO THE DR.  You don't want to risk taking the sub while you still have doping levels of hydro in your system

[kyjobr]

you don't have to be in full withdrawal before starting sub.  You're supposed to be in mild-moderate w/d's.  Here's a link that shows the symptoms so you can figure out when you're in mild-moderate.  http://www.aoaam.org/clinicaltools/I.%20COWS%20worksheet.doc.  Your doc will be able to tell if you're not ready to start the sub.  I'm sure they are just being safe with the 24 hours but then again, you don't want to take the chance that you won't be able to start.  

[kyjobr]

oh, and I only waited about 12 hours and was fine.  BUT like elimin said, I wouldn't take the risk. You'll be fine.  Your mind will know that help is coming soon so it won't be that bad.

[hillary5]

when i started the suboxone they said anywhere between 12-15hrs before the appt ... they gave me a urine test when i got there and of course it wz positive for opiates - i started the sub at 10 a.m. and i wz fine - i took my last 3 vics at 6pm the nite before ... but you probably should listen to them .... you just don't want to get sick when you start the sub, guess its alot worse than w/d's .. good luck to you .. keep posting and let us know how it's going for you ... take care!!
:-)

[IBKleen]

I was about 14-15 hours into w/d before I started Sub.It helped me a great deal. For me, 24 hours would have been too long..at that point, I would have considered cold turkey.

[eliminnopee]

   I don't mean to be crazy sounding, but you probably should listen to the Dr.  However it has been a while since I have taken hydros... Oh how easy it is to forget how quick the agony comes.  It was nothing for me to go 24 hours without methadone.  But it is designed differently.  I still recommend the Dr.'s advice, for they are trained, but I have found the people on here have great advice so going less than 24 may work for you... It's just a big risk, because if you have a reaction with the sub and hydros, boy, I feel for ya.

[kyjobr]

how exciting for you!  I know it's scary.  I was crying when I took that first pill.  The other advice I would have is that if you get sent home with it (instead of taking it at the docs office) is to only take a little bit at first.  Wait a full hour to see what happens.  Everyone is so different and I found that taking only half of what I was allowed to take was more than enough.  I am so happy for you to take that first step.  Getting on and getting off are the two scariest times for sub users but it's life changing.  Welcome to the club!

[JENN5]

thanks guys.  I was just curious.  My cousin went through this 6 months ago and his doc said wait at least 12 hours which he did not 24.  It's just 24 is going to be hell I know.  I dont think I'll do 12 hrs too risky but I am thinking about doing 20 hrs instead of 24.

Also guys about the 1st question - can I take the valium or ativan to help me relax during the withdrawl?

[notmenow!]

HELLO JEN, I am on suboxone. When I started the induction about 12 hrs after my last dose as my pain management dr was putting me on suboxone maintenance as I had back surgery to alleviate 70% of the pain. Prior to that I was on 120mg of Oxycontin and 80mg  of Norco a day. So she told me not to use anything after 9pm. The induction was done with subutex which has no naloxone in it. This way I would not have a reaction just in case there was too much opiates on my receptors. I used the subutex for 3 days then switched over to suboxone which comes in 8/2mg which contains 8
mgs of suboxone and 2mgs of naloxone which is a opiate antagonist. It's in the suboxone as a safety feature in case someone is crazy enough to try and inject the drug they would go into instant withdrawal. When taken the correct way very little gets into the blood. Did the Dr's office ask if you took benzo's as the combination of the two can cause death. That's what the literature claims. I asked my dr about this claim and she said only if you have no tolerance to benzo's otherwise less than 2mg of xanax is safe or 10mg Valium twice daily. So find out if this dr allows benzo's. Don't volunteer any info. Do you take a benzo every day? You need at least 16mg of suboxone to take away the cravings. You may have mild headaches and mild nausea for the first week until the body adjusts to the drug. I going on six months and every day has been like the old days.
Good Luck--Noah

[kyjobr]

I don't know about the 16mg minimum to take away cravings.  I was fine with 4mg and many people take way under 16mg.  I think it all depends on the person and the goal is to take the smallest amount that takes away w/d and cravings.  

[JENN5]

I have taken ativan in the past but only once in a while.  the valium I got 5 of them from a friend in case I needed them.  So i'm not used to taking them.  Iknow the last time I went through withdrawal I took ativans to help sleep.  So I'm thinking it's not safe to take them while I'm on sub but to take them before I hope would be safe...

[Gobig]

I went to the doc. 12 hours, like the said, after my last dose, and when I got there, after telling them I was on dolphine for a week, then made me wait one extra day - ouch!

[JENN5]

What is dolphine?  that's what I'm afraid of I dont want to take the sleep aids go there and have them say no!  The nurse said you can take sleep aides if it's not an opiate but I wonder...I'm hesitant.  I've been looking online for hours now..

[Gobig]

Methadone - longer half life - learned that the hard way.  The "dolph" comes from Adolf - twisted roots that drug has - but it certainly helped the week I needed it before getting a sub. doc.  12 hours or more off of Norco, and you'll be fine.  The Dr. will look at your eyes and be able to tell where you're at.

[JENN5]

Thanks.  I think I'm going to try to be off for 17 hours.  I know by then I will be in withdrawal for sure anyway.  

[Gobig]

For sure - and then you'll feel just great!  How many Norcos a day you coming off of?

[wait2long]

did you take any methadone? if so when was the last time you took it, because that kind of changes the dynamics of it a little bit...

[JENN5]

No I've never taken any methadone.  Just norco.  I'm prescribed Norco and morphine for my back but really dont use the morphine unless it's bad and haven't used it in over 3 weeks.

[eliminnopee]

     "You need at least 16mg of suboxone to take away the cravings"  
This may be true in certain cases, but it is not a solidly true statement.  Personally I took 4mgs and one half hour later I was fine, like I never felt bad in the first place.

[Gobig]

For the record, I see a lot of mention of sub. taking away cravings - of course it does, your body is getting what it craves and that's opiates.

[hillary5]

it also helps w/pain if you're someone who has severe pain problems....but at least there not taking there DOC anymore and the suboxone doesn't get you high either ... so, for some of us who are unable to go to rehab because of families to take care of or financial reasons, why not go this route .. i know if i hadn't started, there is no way i would be able to take care of my young children -

[Gobig]

I did it - not just for folks with families (I'm one of those) but for folks who need to keep going to work (I'm one of those, too).  I'm all for sub.!  Worked great for me.

[Gobig]

Btw, it doesn't get you high like dolphine doesn't get you high.  I've been clean now for seven months - if I took 16mgs of sub. today, I'd be pretty darned high.

[kyjobr]

I am also a firm believer that some people are wired so that their brains do not make the "right" amount of its own opiate type chemicals.  There are studies being done all over the place for using sub for depression.  If it can keep me happy without making me high and you don't build a tolerance, then why wouldn't I use it?  In fact if when I get off the depression comes back (have had it since I was a young child, way before using) then I may go back on sub just for that.