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Suboxone - what is the REAL deal?
Since I've relapsed and am currently on pain medication again, I've been seriously considering going the suboxone route. However, I've been reading a lot of posts about it, and I'm getting the feeling it's like "Vicodin Light". I don't really say that in jest, either. It appears to make people feel quite good, it wards off wd's, and furthermore, it seems addictive.
So ... what is the REAL scoop on suboxone? It seem to simply be, perhaps, a step down from hydro/oxy use; but still on the ladder of opiate addiction. I'm just wondering if it's substituting one pill for another, or if it REALLY is a way to get off opiates for good. In other words, how does switching from hydro/oxy to subutex truly assist someone in getting off pills for good? Any feedback would be appreciated.
So ... what is the REAL scoop on suboxone? It seem to simply be, perhaps, a step down from hydro/oxy use; but still on the ladder of opiate addiction. I'm just wondering if it's substituting one pill for another, or if it REALLY is a way to get off opiates for good. In other words, how does switching from hydro/oxy to subutex truly assist someone in getting off pills for good? Any feedback would be appreciated.
I was an IV heroin addict. When I stopped using dope, I went to the suboxone program and have been trying to get off of it for the 3 years I've been on it. It is a SHORT TERM treatment. I am unable to stop using it. I don't abuse it. I take 2-4 mg a day, but even trying to only take 2mg a day, my bones start to ache, the chills come back. I haven't taken it yet today and I already have chills.
One of my friends did a slow taper and was down to 1/4mg a day and when he stopped using it still got withdraw systems for 3 weeks, just as bad as if he would have done cold turkey.
I think this is one of the worse medicines out there. I feel like I was lied to about how it would work. My doctor started me out on 3 8mg tablets a day and it's been hell.
I can't stand being on it any longer and I don't know what to do. I go to one of the best universities in the country and cannot afford to be dope sick for 2 weeks.
Before committing to this program, make sure you are ready for the chance of just switching from one drug to another. It *****, I get all of the side effects that I was trying to avoid and I don't even get to experience the high of dope.
The positives of the past 3 years since I've used dope are that I am in a great university, I am in my nephew and brother's life, etc. BUT I believe those came from intense individual therapy that I found myself. I also went to a psychiatrist to be put on medication that I should have been on long ago. Since I have been on these medications, I feel like this is how 'normal' people think.
I just really feel like the suboxone is switching from one drug to the next. It is not meant to be taken for 3+ years. It's actually been 3 1/2 years that I've been on it. I'm just avoiding the inevitable...being sick.
It is a wonderful thing or about 2 weeks in a very small dose so you don't feel the withdraws as bad. I cannot stress enough that you really need to be careful because I am dependent and it took me awhile to admit that. I needed to stop using dope, but what I really needed was to deal with what caused me to run to it in the first place. Once those issues become address with a PROFESSIONAL, not wanting to run to dope is not an option.
Dope didn't cause anyone to use dope. There was something that caused someone to run to it.
One of my friends did a slow taper and was down to 1/4mg a day and when he stopped using it still got withdraw systems for 3 weeks, just as bad as if he would have done cold turkey.
I think this is one of the worse medicines out there. I feel like I was lied to about how it would work. My doctor started me out on 3 8mg tablets a day and it's been hell.
I can't stand being on it any longer and I don't know what to do. I go to one of the best universities in the country and cannot afford to be dope sick for 2 weeks.
Before committing to this program, make sure you are ready for the chance of just switching from one drug to another. It *****, I get all of the side effects that I was trying to avoid and I don't even get to experience the high of dope.
The positives of the past 3 years since I've used dope are that I am in a great university, I am in my nephew and brother's life, etc. BUT I believe those came from intense individual therapy that I found myself. I also went to a psychiatrist to be put on medication that I should have been on long ago. Since I have been on these medications, I feel like this is how 'normal' people think.
I just really feel like the suboxone is switching from one drug to the next. It is not meant to be taken for 3+ years. It's actually been 3 1/2 years that I've been on it. I'm just avoiding the inevitable...being sick.
It is a wonderful thing or about 2 weeks in a very small dose so you don't feel the withdraws as bad. I cannot stress enough that you really need to be careful because I am dependent and it took me awhile to admit that. I needed to stop using dope, but what I really needed was to deal with what caused me to run to it in the first place. Once those issues become address with a PROFESSIONAL, not wanting to run to dope is not an option.
Dope didn't cause anyone to use dope. There was something that caused someone to run to it.
great post hun...thank you for providing the info on long term treatment with sub...very accurate information...and i can verify the info is accurate with my experience, i have been able to change everything that was related to my addictive lifestyle...i have a new life. i have been on sub and in therapy (which is a must for success) for almost a year now...i wouldnt change a thing and am glad and thankful to my sub doctor and sub also...they saved my life.
Thanks my friend - that was, indeed, a great run-down about suboxone. Furthermore, it really puts the issue to the front of the table: If I'm going to quite opiates, suboxone (while not a cure-all) can possibly assist me in not going through TERRIBLE withdrawals; hence, I can work, exercise, and carry-on "somewhat" normally. For me, I definitely do NOT want to be dependent on subs; therefore, it would be another tool in my arsenal for getting off opiates ... and I'd only use it short-term. Thanks again - great post, SableZen.
That was great information-thak you SableZen- i needed that- and wish me luck too : )
Here's a quick run-down:
Suboxone contains two opiates: buprenorphine and naloxone.
Why take two opiates to help get off opiates (the theory beyond the obvious)?
1. Buprenorphine has both partial-agonist and antagonist actions. This opiate is the part of Suboxone that prevents a person from feeling withdrawal. The buprenorphine acts as a *partial* agonist. Meaning it's not going to make a person feel as euphoric (if at all) as a full agonist. Nor conversely result in as great of a feeling of depression/anxiety during the normal ups and downs in levels between taking a pill like a full agonist does. It could roughly be called a 'diet opiate' or 'Vicodin-Lite' if you like. But an opiate it technically is.
2. The naloxone in Suboxone is put there to act as an antagonist - which means if it is consumed it will bind to the opioid receptors and block out the buprenorphine (or any other opiate) from binding to the receptors on cells. Naloxone causes no high nor really effects the cells it binds to... it just pushes away any present opiate on a receptor, binds to the receptor itself... and sits there doing nothing but blocking up the receptor from accepting any opioid agonists. This antagonist action is the reason why taking Suboxone will result in precipitated, acute, withdrawal symptoms if a person still has another opiate in the body when they first take Suboxone. HOWEVER! If Suboxone is taken correctly and as prescribed, very little naloxone is absorbed into the body. If you take too much Suboxone, swallow it, crush it and snort, inject it, etc... instead of getting high, you can even go into precipitated, acute withdrawal as the naloxone displaces any current opiates sitting on receptors and prevents the buprenorphine from binding anywhere. Basically, the naloxone prevents 'abuse' - which means that *even if* a person wanted to try and get high from the contained partial-opiate buprenorphine, the results are either no reward or acute withdrawal.
The draw-backs:
Suboxone has a very long half-life. This is about the only similarity to methadone. Otherwise, the too drugs are very different. But does mean, the detoxing period from Suboxone is drawn-out compared to most other opiates. A long half-life is a dual-edged sword though. On the one hand, a very slight decrease in dose won't be felt immediately - it will likely be over a day before the levels in the body actually drop enough to be noticeable after a decrease in amount. This is why a lot of people recommend a very slow and gradual taper - even going so far as to drop down to .5 every other day. That .5 will stay active in the body through the day a person won't take any, and gives the body a more realistic chance to adjust to the decrease without feeling as strong of withdrawal.
So, to sum it up - Suboxone has very little abuse potential even though it is technically an opiate. But see the obvious similarity to dependency as opposed to addiction when a drug isn't being abused? A change in long-term abusive behavior is what most of us struggle to deal with if we quit cold turkey or detox on our own, even after acute withdrawal passes. Someone taking Suboxone is one step ahead in this aspect to addiction and is also going to be able to go ahead and start dealing with over-all life-changing while getting out of the downward cycle of addiction and abuse.
Using Suboxone for short-term detox seems to be becoming very common now too. That is, taking it long enough to not become addicted to it while simultaneously detoxing from a different opiate. To me, this seems a better route to tapering from a drug of choice if missing work, taking care of family and all those other things that always make quitting a 'can't do it right now, maybe next week' sort a thing for some people... there is no way around feeling some withdrawal but Suboxone seems to have helped *some* people avoid some of the extremes of physical withdrawal (definitely not always!). This will be of no help for post acute withdrawal issues either though - it's no magic bullet to treating addiction for sure. But for some people it can literally be a life-saver and an important tool for someone that is sincerely intent on beating an addiction.
Ok, so it wasn't a quick run-down to answer the question. And there is controversy with Suboxone - just passing along the theories. =P
Suboxone contains two opiates: buprenorphine and naloxone.
Why take two opiates to help get off opiates (the theory beyond the obvious)?
1. Buprenorphine has both partial-agonist and antagonist actions. This opiate is the part of Suboxone that prevents a person from feeling withdrawal. The buprenorphine acts as a *partial* agonist. Meaning it's not going to make a person feel as euphoric (if at all) as a full agonist. Nor conversely result in as great of a feeling of depression/anxiety during the normal ups and downs in levels between taking a pill like a full agonist does. It could roughly be called a 'diet opiate' or 'Vicodin-Lite' if you like. But an opiate it technically is.
2. The naloxone in Suboxone is put there to act as an antagonist - which means if it is consumed it will bind to the opioid receptors and block out the buprenorphine (or any other opiate) from binding to the receptors on cells. Naloxone causes no high nor really effects the cells it binds to... it just pushes away any present opiate on a receptor, binds to the receptor itself... and sits there doing nothing but blocking up the receptor from accepting any opioid agonists. This antagonist action is the reason why taking Suboxone will result in precipitated, acute, withdrawal symptoms if a person still has another opiate in the body when they first take Suboxone. HOWEVER! If Suboxone is taken correctly and as prescribed, very little naloxone is absorbed into the body. If you take too much Suboxone, swallow it, crush it and snort, inject it, etc... instead of getting high, you can even go into precipitated, acute withdrawal as the naloxone displaces any current opiates sitting on receptors and prevents the buprenorphine from binding anywhere. Basically, the naloxone prevents 'abuse' - which means that *even if* a person wanted to try and get high from the contained partial-opiate buprenorphine, the results are either no reward or acute withdrawal.
The draw-backs:
Suboxone has a very long half-life. This is about the only similarity to methadone. Otherwise, the too drugs are very different. But does mean, the detoxing period from Suboxone is drawn-out compared to most other opiates. A long half-life is a dual-edged sword though. On the one hand, a very slight decrease in dose won't be felt immediately - it will likely be over a day before the levels in the body actually drop enough to be noticeable after a decrease in amount. This is why a lot of people recommend a very slow and gradual taper - even going so far as to drop down to .5 every other day. That .5 will stay active in the body through the day a person won't take any, and gives the body a more realistic chance to adjust to the decrease without feeling as strong of withdrawal.
So, to sum it up - Suboxone has very little abuse potential even though it is technically an opiate. But see the obvious similarity to dependency as opposed to addiction when a drug isn't being abused? A change in long-term abusive behavior is what most of us struggle to deal with if we quit cold turkey or detox on our own, even after acute withdrawal passes. Someone taking Suboxone is one step ahead in this aspect to addiction and is also going to be able to go ahead and start dealing with over-all life-changing while getting out of the downward cycle of addiction and abuse.
Using Suboxone for short-term detox seems to be becoming very common now too. That is, taking it long enough to not become addicted to it while simultaneously detoxing from a different opiate. To me, this seems a better route to tapering from a drug of choice if missing work, taking care of family and all those other things that always make quitting a 'can't do it right now, maybe next week' sort a thing for some people... there is no way around feeling some withdrawal but Suboxone seems to have helped *some* people avoid some of the extremes of physical withdrawal (definitely not always!). This will be of no help for post acute withdrawal issues either though - it's no magic bullet to treating addiction for sure. But for some people it can literally be a life-saver and an important tool for someone that is sincerely intent on beating an addiction.
Ok, so it wasn't a quick run-down to answer the question. And there is controversy with Suboxone - just passing along the theories. =P
I'm going to find out- i started yesterday on suboxone-just a couple of glitches so far-i have been posting since i started and will continue-just haven't had a minute yet, but i'm feeling great!
A pill for a pill...yes and no. I have been known the be critical of suboxone sometimes, but it did help me get my life under control instead of searching for the next high. But now that I have gone CT and gone down the suboxone route, your gonna w/d the same from both in my expeirence same timetable too for w/d's. I found the roxy w/d's a little esaier I guess because I couldn't go to a doctor to get more and just grit my teeth. At the 4-5 month mark I ran out of suboxone had felt great up to that point everyday no w/d symptoms or anything and then I ran out. I felt like I was going to die and it wasn't until then I realized that it was just as bad as opiates. I starting reading up and started to taper. I can only suggest what I know from my expeirience but it is all in the eye of the beholder. I only truly saw results from going cold turkey. I am through the physical symptons and am coping and dealing with the mental symptons pretty well now. I wish you the best of luck in finding sobriety.
I have been reading posts and researching sub for seveeral months now...i do not see how short term use of the sub would help you avoid relapsing later...there is no way that taking a pill for 10-21 days will keep u drug free for life...people who use it short term do so in an attempt to avoid withdrawal symptoms...People on high doses or difficult drugs like methadone would perhaps need it more so for the withdrawals as they would be sicker than a low quantity user..long term use would be indicated i guess if u have a problem with relapsing as people get on it until they get their life together and make necessary changes and then taper off when they feel stronger...I have seen different reports on withdrawal symptoms from it with a slow taper..perhaps some could stay on it for life i guess if need be...dont know
Someone may post soon who is on the drug or has taken the drug and help u more...seems as tho some have good luck with it and some do not and it makes them sick til they get the dose right....
Someone may post soon who is on the drug or has taken the drug and help u more...seems as tho some have good luck with it and some do not and it makes them sick til they get the dose right....
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