Tapering vs c/t - looking for info/opinions

[DAnthrope]

Hello all - I'm hoping to learn more about tapering vs going c/t. Whether that's from personal experience or advice from md's, anything will help.

Here's my situation: For the past 1.5yrs I've built up to using 5-8 10/325's a day (generic hydro/vic), starting first thing in the morning, following each pill with a couple high-octane beers, and going every few hours until night. As you well know, eventually you take them to just not feel bad, very little high left unless you take more. I finally made the choice - last week - not to reorder. By this past Monday I was down to my last 2.  I tried to go c/t nearly 72 hours ago.  To say it was hell, as you all well know, is so pale in contrast to the sea of agony it really was.  Just over 24 hours later I broke down and took half a pill. It did ease the pain. But left me with some worries and questions.

First, I'm worried that tapering will prolong the w/d process.
Honestly, I feel like a real moron for not expecting this degree of agony.  I truly did not anticipate it would hurt this much - because what reading I've done lead me to feel like my habit wasn't that severe as I've seen others taking so much more than me.  But holy **** was I wrong!  
So - I'm hoping that by taking a couple halves a day for now - that I'm not just keeping the w/d process going and that maybe with less pain I can give those last few halves up as well.  

[crud, I hit max length and didn't finish- I hope folks won't mind if I send a second post with more questions]

Peace
/D

[reggie1]

The comment that you made about getting your stuff fedex,I've done the same exact thing before,its outlawed where i live now.  For some reason I found that so funny but actually I feel guilty for laughing.  Did you hear about the viagra from China? some one was using drywall I think and putting it off as viagra and selling that off the net, did you or anyone else hear about that?

[DAnthrope]

Cat- HELPING- absolutely. Thank you. Work is a huge concern for me. I can't fark this up, my daughters are counting on me. Can't afford a day out of work or rehab, wish I could. C/t for even the first day killed me, I feel like a pansy! First night with 0 sleep, every molecule in my body felt like it was exploding. I couldn't stop twitching. Mind racing. Sweating and freezing all at once. Hoping at least there would be no more convulsing/vomiting. Stomach felt like a nuke. Damn I am humbled by your strength. I guess that stuff about women being stronger than men is true huh?! :-)

(Although oneway's story is beyond words - Dude - holy shiat! You went c/t off that much and survived. God I am such a pansy!)

/D

[tink1517]

you are in the right place, funny i found this forun the same as you in reading posts from 2002. there are many here going c/t, tapering, suboxone, and some w/ success stories. i posted to you below, did you read it? if you need to talk i'm here pretty much everyday. later on you'll get more responses, its still early.

[oneway]

Sup man, I just finished going cold turkey off of injecting 20 80mgs of oxys a day. I finally am starting to feel like my normal self after two months. The first 30 days were pure hell, the next 30 were pretty bad but I finally started coming around. If anyone tells you that you can't make it ct then their full of s*&t. Yes you do go crazy and I'm not saying that lightly but you will do no perminent damage. Let me just say this when I was going through ct I had a hit out on my life, I owed 70,000 to straight gangsters, had the police calling my gf looking for my ass. I seriously thought I was gonna go crazy and kill myself, I could not get one moments peace in my mind, with all this bulls*&t combined. I would say drink water force yourself to eat. I still feel it after 2 months but I am definetly over the worse. I think though only time you should ween is on methadone. Even though you feel like its never gonna end it will. You are not yourself when your going ct so don't listen to your own crazy thinking because your thinking is screwed up to. I believe weening down off pills is just avoiding the inevitable because your gonna feel some sickness no matter what.  Their is no easy way out of this s*&t trust me otherwise I would have done it.

[DAnthrope]

Hey Tink you're quite the legend around here I see!
Thank you so much - your posts to others have helped me already.
I didn't see your reply to me - but I'm not real clear minded today - can you give me a link to it?

I did read your reply to Mariyah2 with your story about going to the dr.
I'm too paranoid to do that, plus, I have no chronic pain nor a genuine prescription - so LOL I'm just a street junkie!  I get my stuff over the internet, FedEx'd right my door easier than I ever dreamed.  

Anyway - I'm reading like crazy - learning - and appreciating the kindred spirits I've found.

Peace
/D

[DAnthrope]

Hi- Funny, you don't have the strength to taper, I don't have the strength to go c/t!!!  I honestly wanted to die after 24hrs, I couldn't imagine how I could function.  I've taken three halves of my 10/325's and approaching my 72hr mark. I may try c/t again depending on what I read here, meaning if what you say about the first 3 days being the worst are the same for me maybe I'll give it another try. I think we're all looking for the easiest way out. I've heard people say with tapering they had almost no w/d, that's hard to turn down! But if I get 1/2 the w/d for 4x the time doing tapering, the math doesn't quite work out.

My problem is this: if I could afford rehab I would go c/t, but I have daughters and an ex-wife to support. I can't afford even 1 more day off work (in bankruptcy now).  So I have to do this on my own.  And c/t on the first day left me unable to work. Fortunately I have an absent boss and a great coworker helping me get throug h the day.

Any advice or insights you can offer - of course - are greatly appreciated.
Peace
/D

[catlady59]

Believe it or not I'm at work today on day 2 and I was not a litle user. When through240 in 2 weeks every month then went c/t again. I've been using for about 5 years so I know the ropes. I one thing I refuse to do is spend alot of money of those damn pills. I did my share a few months going about a year spending every penny I had. No more I'd rather suffer then my family. I'm a single parent and am very strong. I feel like s*** today but took 2 mortins, 2b12's, some juice and off to work I went. Alot of this is mind over matter. Am I helping you or hurting?

[tink1517]

my post to you is like 2 or 3 posts down, i included my email addesss and yahoo IM ID there for you. like catlady said the vitamin B12 is great. i take it by injection once a month, but it is just as effective taken in pill form. great for energy and repairing nerve endings. also you'll probably need some immodiam for stomach cramps and diarhea, that part really sucks. take some kind of advil pm to sleep. we're all here for you...

[catlady59]

I prefer c/t I don't have the strenghth to taper, I'd take them all at once for that one last high. I'm on day 2 of c/t again. I always feel better after day three so just about 30 hours left to go. Tell us what you are going to do so then I'll throw out a few tips.

[DAnthrope]

Dude what a story- thanks for sharing it.
Can I ask how you handled the c/t?
I mean, were you in rehab, at home, did you function at all?

I realize my job and financial situation isn't as important as my health and my life, but if there is any way for me to do this while still functioning (ie; working and being independent), then I gotta try that.  I do give you huge respect for the strength I know it took to what you've done, as with catlady and others here going c/t. You guys are amazing, I am beyond humbled.  Big question for me is, should I try c/t again, is it right for -my- situation, and does it work.

/D

[pgnscared]

I have to tell you that I feel like you are telling my story. I am also an internet user, right to the door. I can not take time off of work and my husband has no clue...on top of that somehow counted incorrectly and ended up pregnant 6 weeks now and I need to get off of this before it is too late for me and my baby. My habit was usually 15-20 (norco 10/325) a day except on weekends I would take about 30-40 a day, so stupid when I think about it pretty lucky to just still be here. The day I found out I was pregnant I only took 3 and then kept taking it down from there, I was down to 1/2 in the late morning and 1/2 in the evening but the W/D's and mind games were really getting to me. I quickly realized that tapering too quickly is just causing more discomfort than just going C/T. However, my pharmacist said that I should take at least 2 weeks to taper and you shouldn't feel uncomfortable doing so. So up the dosage if you have too, start with 3 10's a day and see how you feel do that for a week or so and then try to lower it if after the second day of your lower dose you aren't feeling W/D's then you got the right combo and continue on your path. She said if you did it right you might feel a little RLS but that should be it. Not sure if it really works but I will let you know once I am done tapering. I hope this helps.

[catlady59]

I don't know what kind of job you have but I my case I do have a desk job that helps!! Since I know what to expect next I think I might have it alittle easy then most first timers. Don't get me wrong if one of you guys said meet me at the cornor in ten mins. Id be there in a flash. Maybe???? Here are some of my tips for getting by.

Do you have any access to xanax or something like it?
If not any of the pm such as tylonolpm are also good for sleep.
Try and get as much sleep as you can because the less the worse you feel for yourself/work/kids.
Make up the excuss you think you might have the flu. Lie
Take 2 or 4 motrins first thing in the morning this will take away alot of the cramps.
2 b12's give you alittle energy.
Throw on some clothes get out the door and pretend like its not that bad. This one is important. Your mind really plays alot of tricks on you. Think positive like the little train that could.
When your work day is over go home and relax/rest as much as you can. At night take your relaxer whatever it is and try and get some sleep. If you have to deal with kids explain you just don't feel very well today. I don't have this luxuary but if you can start on a Sat. and try and sleep your way through I did this two months ago and called into work and was great in 3 days.
Let me know if I'm helping

[chewey]

great advice!

[catlady59]

I forgot one more thing I always have a glass of wine. Don't over do it because that also makes you feel even worse.

[ScottQuit021907]

The following is how I have made it through my w/d so far (day 10 and not over yet). While still on the pills, I went and bought a bunch of OTC stuff. The following had a definite positive effect for me:

- 2-4 g/d of L-Tyrosine for energy (take in morning)
- Immodium for diarrhea (take every 6 hours for at least 3 or 4 days then as needed)
- 15 to 30 mg/d of Melatonin (take at night to help sleep)
- Tylenol PM (for sleep)
- I bought a bunch of other stuff and take them daily but can't tell know how much they help (Adrenal Xtra, L-Glutathione, L-Methionine, Multivitamin, Green Tea Extract, Alpha Lipoic Acid, L-Glutamine, Milk Thistle,
Vitamin B-6, Valerian Root, Omega 3 6 9 Oil, Vitamin C)
- bananas! I have eaten about a dozen in the last 5 days or so (and no Immodium) and they really help with the diarrhea.
- Lots of water and juice

I tapered from 350 mg/d (morphine sulfate) to 100 mg/d over the course of about 4 days, then quit c/t with last dose on Mon, 2/19 at 6 pm. I suffered minimal w/d during my taper. I went to work Tues, 2/20 with w/d starting to kick in. By 4 pm I was feeling awful and left work early. I laid in bed and stayed home from work Wed and Thur with "the flu", worked full day Fri, and continue to improve slowly each day. The biggest improvement was from day 3 to day 4 or day 6 to day 7.

My understanding is that it's not generally harmful long-term to quit c/t from opiates.

[DAnthrope]

[sorry for the long & continued post]

Second, the combination of very weird mental functioning since trying c/t, along with my own ignorance about this subject, has lead me to be concerned that there might be some serious physical risk involved (ie; brain or other permanent damage) in trying to go c/t.  

Third, of course, is the risk of just never getting off this shiat. These pills are pure evil to me, which is why last week I decided I would do -anything- to rid myself of them. Well anything but c/t apparently :-(  I would love to hear from others who have tapered successfully, but also, from others where it hasn't worked.  What were the factors involved?  Is it merely shear force of will or are there other factors?

Ok enough rambling - sorry for the long post - I'm working through my third day on 1/5th of my normal rations - this forum is such an incredible gift.  I hope to be able to become a valued member of the community.

PS: I have done a lot of reading of past posts about all of this, but most of the posts I saw were several years old. I am hoping to find others who are going through this now, and perhaps trade a few messages. Thus- my asking the questions here instead of just reading the archives.


Peace
/D