Terrified grandma; advice?

[KKWilli]

I'm new to the forum. I have a 20 year old son who is a heroine addict. His 26 y.o. girlfriend & mother of his baby is also a heroine addict. Baby is 5 months old. A few weeks ago, my son did a short subutex detox, but within a week, he went back to drugs. They've lived with me for 18 months. I've talked and talked & also paid for the subutex and the trip to the neuropsychiatrist, but my son didn't even follow the doctor's directions. I set up guidelines, like tellin them they have to go to NA meetings, but they make no effort.  They have no car, which leaves everything on me on top of working a full time job.  If they really wanted to get clean, they would be voluntarily going to meetings & even finding a ride if that's what they need.  Baby's mom thinks she has me fooled into believing my son is the only one with a serious problem, but I know better. I have to work full time and they're home everyday with the baby.  Neither will go get a job, both just keep playing me, basically. They fight and argue and act ridiculous around the baby. They get high with the baby in the house. I've wished & hoped too long & realize I must do something to protect my beautiful innocent grandbaby. I've contacted an attorney and plan on telling my son & the g.f. they have to sign custody over & leave the house or the state will intervene & take baby; one or the other. I think my son will accept this easier than the mother because this is actually the only way he will be assured of his son's safety. Mom is supposed to get a car soon & an ex-boyfriend is supposed to be getting out of jail within a week & I know that she won't think twice about running with baby, & then my son may never see his baby again. I'm hoping and praying that losing custody will motivate both of them to find help.  I've come to the conclusion that I CAN'T help.  So many people get on these forums and talk about being there for their kids, but I've tried & it only seems to enable them.  They make promises but don't keep them. They build up my hopes and then dash them back down. It's all a game & it's got to stop because it's putting baby at risk.  Are there any other grandparents out there who have gone through this? I'm really not sure what to expect from either of them when I approach them with this. I'm hoping they're cooperative, but know that anything is possible ~ including a violent outburst.  Both have been high for several days now. If I can catch my son when he's not high, I think he will be more reasonable. Best case scenario is both of them cooperating, but I think it's not likely.  I also realize that the statistics for them actually recovering are very low & that I will most likely need to retain custody of my grandchild for a long, long time; perhaps his entire life. It just rips my heart out to be put in this position.  I have to kick my son out - MY firstborn child and MY son, in order to protect HIS son.  No mother should ever have to make this decision.

[Savas]

Yeees...that's a very positive interpretation of what they're supposed to do. But people should be aware that there's how the law reads, and how it's enforced. The two can be VASTLY different.

I'm not saying this doesn't happen, but you have to remember you're dealing with overloaded case workers who are usually jaded and quick to make a judgement. These workers also have their own belief systems and prejudices and while it's assumed they are fair and impartial, it's often not the case.

But...you work with what you've got. Right?

I'm curious, say you have a case of supposed prescription drug abuse with a legitimate prescription. Signs of possible neglect, but nothing concrete and clear cut. What would DCFS do in this case (assuming they investigate and find a normal, somewhat dysfunctional home. :)  )
I get the impression you work with DCFS from what you say, if I'm wrong, ignore the question, or feel free to put in two cents. That's what we all do, after all!

[Stacy79]

DCFS doesn't really need a court order to do anything.  For example, if we got a call that a child was being neglected or abused and we got to the house and saw that they had no electricity, or the kid was sleeping on the floor, we would take them right there.  In my brother and sister's case, my Grandmother called DYFS because my father and step-mother were on heroin.  DCF came and took the children and told her two weeks later that she would have to take them.  She got custody because the case worker saw that she was a good person who could provide a healthy living environment.  I don't know how St. Louis is, I live in New Jersey.  What we would do if we got to a house and there was no physical evidence, such as spoons and drug tools, we would order a CADC evaluation immediately, which would involve a drug test.  The tests coming back positive would be enough to take the child.  More than likely, he would have to stay with a resource family until the judge granted custody, and your son and his gf would have to be kicked out of your house.  The courts would put them through all kinds of treatment, counseling, and testing, so you would win that way too!  Of course, I think this should be a last resort if they can't get off drugs and straighten out themselves.  They have one more chance, and make that clear to them.  If they don't get better, then tell them they can either give you custody the easy way, without a fight, or the hard way where they will probably go to jail.

[Savas]

Order of visitation (limiting parental residency) is used usually in divorce cases. It states that the the parent in possession of the child cannot move out of the immediate area since it would deprive the right of the other parent of their visitation rights.

It can be applied (depending on state, I believe) to additional guardians of the child who have a vested interest/relationship in the child's upbringing. Usually it means (in this case) the mother would have to stay within (traditionally) a maximum of one day's worth of travel. It also requires the mother to keep the party with visitation rights informed of her residency. Any violation of this generally means forcing the mother to remain in he locale of the other parent or transference of custody of the child to the other parent and arrest and incarceration of the offending parent.

The problem is twofold; either proving that you're a legally acknowledged interested party, or getting your son to acknowledge the danger of her running and agreeing to file such a motion on his own behalf.

This would be something to discuss with the lawyer. Generally it would be shown you were an alternate guardian if you were seriously involved in the child's life, but you tend to need a paper trail showing you'd done the purchasing of standard needs (food & clothing) for the child, papers showing you dealt with the enrollment of the child in school, took care of it's medical needs/visits (etc...).

It's easier to do (well, sometimes) than seizing guardianship. You don't need to prove the burden of neglect on the parent's part, although it is implied. You also can hopefully avoid the involvement of CPS.

[KKWilli]

" However, they have to see something substantial in order to intervene.  You don't want to run the risk of them not seeing anything significant enough to remove the children, then leaving, and your son's g.f. being able to take the kid and run."  

Believe me, this is one of my biggest fears.

When you say they have to see something substantial, could that include looking at mom &/or dad & being able to tell they were high?  If a DCFS worker came in and suspected the parent(s) were high, could they force them to do a drug test or would they have to get a court order?  Since they live with me, I'm afraid if I got the wrong caseworker, they might say that I knew all along the parents were using drugs, so I'm just as negligent as they are, even though I've been trying all along to get them to stop using.  

[KKWilli]

What is an order of visitation on my behalf  (or my son's) & how would it lock the mother into not being able to leave?  These young men who father children with girlfriends don't ever stop and think just how powerless they're going to be if the mother decides to up and take off with their child.  

[KKWilli]

Well, there really wouldn't be a legitimate reason for my son to be involved in getting a restraining order against the mother because my son is high as often, if not more often, than his g.f. is.  Neither of them have ever done anything to hurt the baby or given me any reason to think they would intentionally hurt him.  I'm afraid they will accidentally hurt him when they're high.  As far as the St. Louis County courts go, I don't have much faith in them.  I got my divorce there and the stupid GAL appointed my kids gave their Dad unsupervised visitation with them even though he had been accused of 4 VERY SERIOUS charges against a 12 y.o. girl.  He's in prison now for those charges.  The STL courts did NOT protect my kids.  That's all part of this whole scenario.  There are risks no matter what avenue I consider taking.  I just need God to give me a crystal clear answer, but I know it doesn't usually work that way.