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Thomas Recipe
Hi everyone. What is the Thomas Recipe I have read about here? Does anyone know specifically what it is and what it is supposed to do? I am guessing there are many readers that would like to know besides me - so would someone please post more info on it.
Thank you
Thank you
Thomas Detox Recipe
PLEASE NOTE: I am not a doctor, simply a long-time Rx opiate junkie who has had many opportunities to develop a way to detox. This is a recipe for at-home self-detox from opiates based on my experience as well as that of many other addicts. It is not intended as professional medical advice. It is always wise to make sure none of the recipe ingredients or procedures conflict with medications you may be taking. Likewise, if you have any medical condition, disease, allergy or any other health issue, consult your doctor before using the recipe. Thanks, Thomas
This recipe is designed for cold turkey opiate detox. It assumes that you can get about 5 to 7 days away from your job or household responsibilities during which you can sleep, veg and act as miserable as you feel. Opiate WD mimics the symptoms of the common flu, so, if you need a smokescreen, hide behind a bad case of the flu.
If you can't take time off to detox, I recommend you follow a taper regimen using your drug of choice or suitable alternate -- the slower the taper, the better.
For the Recipe, You'll need:
1. Valium (or another benzodiazepine such as Klonopin, Librium, Ativan or Xanax). Of these, Valium and Klonopin are best suited for tapering since they come in tablet form. Librium is also an excellent detox benzo, but comes in capsules, making it hard to taper the dose. Ativan or Xanax should only be used if you can't get one of the others.
2. Imodium (over the counter, any drug or grocery store).
3. L-Tyrosine (500 mg caps) from the health food store.
4. Strong wide-spectrum mineral supplement with at least 100% RDA of Zinc, Phosphorus, Copper and Magnesium.
5. Vitamin B6 caps.
6. Access to hot baths or a Jacuzzi (or hot showers if that's all that's available).
How to use the recipe:
Begin your detox with regular doses of Valium (or alternate benzo). Start with a dose high enough to produce sleep. Before you use any benzo, make sure you're aware of how often it can be safely taken. Different benzos have different dosing schedules. Taper your Valium dosage down after each day. The goal is to get through day 4, after which the worst WD symptoms will subside. You shouldn't need the Valium after day 4 or 5.
During detox, hit the hot bath or Jacuzzi as often as you need to for muscle aches. Don't underestimate the effectiveness of hot soaks. Spend the entire time, if necessary, in a hot bath. This simple method will alleviate what is for many the worst opiate WD symptom.
Use the Imodium aggressively to stop the runs. Take as much as you need, as often as you need it. Don't take it, however, if you don't need it.
At the end of the fourth day, you should be waking up from the Valium and experiencing the beginnings of the opiate WD malaise. Upon rising (empty stomach), take the L-Tyrosine. Try 2000 mgs, and scale up or down, depending on how you feel. You can take up to 4,000 mgs. Take the L-Tyrosine with B6 to help absorption. Wait about one hour before eating breakfast. The L-Tyrosine will give you a surge of physical and mental energy that will help counteract the malaise. You may continue to take it each morning for as long as it helps. If you find it gives you the "coffee jitters," consider lowering the dosage or discontinuing it altogether. Occasionally, L-Tyrosine can cause the runs. Unlike the runs from opiate WD, however, this effect of L-Tyrosine is mild and normally does not return after the first hour. Lowering the dosage may help.
With breakfast, take the mineral supplement.
As soon as you can force yourself to, get some mild exercise such as walking, cycling, swimming, etc. This will be hard at first, but will make you feel considerably better.
PLEASE NOTE: If you have any medical complications, first check with your doctor before detoxing to verify that this regimen is safe for you.
PLEASE NOTE: I am not a doctor, simply a long-time Rx opiate junkie who has had many opportunities to develop a way to detox. This is a recipe for at-home self-detox from opiates based on my experience as well as that of many other addicts. It is not intended as professional medical advice. It is always wise to make sure none of the recipe ingredients or procedures conflict with medications you may be taking. Likewise, if you have any medical condition, disease, allergy or any other health issue, consult your doctor before using the recipe. Thanks, Thomas
This recipe is designed for cold turkey opiate detox. It assumes that you can get about 5 to 7 days away from your job or household responsibilities during which you can sleep, veg and act as miserable as you feel. Opiate WD mimics the symptoms of the common flu, so, if you need a smokescreen, hide behind a bad case of the flu.
If you can't take time off to detox, I recommend you follow a taper regimen using your drug of choice or suitable alternate -- the slower the taper, the better.
For the Recipe, You'll need:
1. Valium (or another benzodiazepine such as Klonopin, Librium, Ativan or Xanax). Of these, Valium and Klonopin are best suited for tapering since they come in tablet form. Librium is also an excellent detox benzo, but comes in capsules, making it hard to taper the dose. Ativan or Xanax should only be used if you can't get one of the others.
2. Imodium (over the counter, any drug or grocery store).
3. L-Tyrosine (500 mg caps) from the health food store.
4. Strong wide-spectrum mineral supplement with at least 100% RDA of Zinc, Phosphorus, Copper and Magnesium.
5. Vitamin B6 caps.
6. Access to hot baths or a Jacuzzi (or hot showers if that's all that's available).
How to use the recipe:
Begin your detox with regular doses of Valium (or alternate benzo). Start with a dose high enough to produce sleep. Before you use any benzo, make sure you're aware of how often it can be safely taken. Different benzos have different dosing schedules. Taper your Valium dosage down after each day. The goal is to get through day 4, after which the worst WD symptoms will subside. You shouldn't need the Valium after day 4 or 5.
During detox, hit the hot bath or Jacuzzi as often as you need to for muscle aches. Don't underestimate the effectiveness of hot soaks. Spend the entire time, if necessary, in a hot bath. This simple method will alleviate what is for many the worst opiate WD symptom.
Use the Imodium aggressively to stop the runs. Take as much as you need, as often as you need it. Don't take it, however, if you don't need it.
At the end of the fourth day, you should be waking up from the Valium and experiencing the beginnings of the opiate WD malaise. Upon rising (empty stomach), take the L-Tyrosine. Try 2000 mgs, and scale up or down, depending on how you feel. You can take up to 4,000 mgs. Take the L-Tyrosine with B6 to help absorption. Wait about one hour before eating breakfast. The L-Tyrosine will give you a surge of physical and mental energy that will help counteract the malaise. You may continue to take it each morning for as long as it helps. If you find it gives you the "coffee jitters," consider lowering the dosage or discontinuing it altogether. Occasionally, L-Tyrosine can cause the runs. Unlike the runs from opiate WD, however, this effect of L-Tyrosine is mild and normally does not return after the first hour. Lowering the dosage may help.
With breakfast, take the mineral supplement.
As soon as you can force yourself to, get some mild exercise such as walking, cycling, swimming, etc. This will be hard at first, but will make you feel considerably better.
PLEASE NOTE: If you have any medical complications, first check with your doctor before detoxing to verify that this regimen is safe for you.
Whazzzzzup? I'm still hanging w/o any oxy's. It sure ain't easy though. It seems that the older that I get, the easier it is for me to just say_ _ _ _IT!!! My addiction tries to forget about all of the pain & mysery I go through when I am using. I don't know, if this is as good as it gets, staying clean doesn't look so good after all. But, as of this post, I have been clean for almost 3 weeks and have no desire to use right now. I hope u r doing well with your recovery; how long clean now? hang in there & have a great weekend. I've been glued to the T.V. checking out this war in the desert. That new hi-tech stuff with the "smart" bombs is unbelivable. My prayers are with all of those guys over there fighting for our freedom.I may not completely endorse our choice to go to war right now, but once the green light is given, I support the good ole U.S. of A. all the way. Later
SABIAN
SABIAN
Hey, when you feel like saying **** it, just run the film to the end; it'll just be worse each time. I know what ya mean; but things really improved for me after about a month(3-4 weeks). I just passed 7 months on the 19th; and feel great. I think a lot of us (me included) get clean, and then expect the world to just present itself to us. Remember, we still have to put some effort in to get something out.......things just won't fall on our laps.
I hope you continue to be strong Sabian!!!
Have a Great weekend yourself
percs
I hope you continue to be strong Sabian!!!
Have a Great weekend yourself
percs
Hi Doll---I likes what you said at the end about the effort we have to put into our recovery to garnish any rewards...It seems like we have to expend so much energy into detox and recovery for weeks and even months; we wonder if theyre's anything LEFT???? LOL But, there is, if we dig deep enough, and the digging gets a little easier all the time.
So------does this mean you won't be in my lap any time soon?? :-) Take care---Peazy
So------does this mean you won't be in my lap any time soon?? :-) Take care---Peazy
Boy...it's been a long time lurking. This board helped me through the hardest time of my life a year and a half ago. Just reading from other people who understand was a God send. 2 years on 240 mg a day of oxycontin and lots of soma and percocet to wash it down daily. I went cold turkey. Ouch. Big, big, ouch. I don't remember the first 3 days at all but on the fourth day I had to get a new mattress if you catch my drift. I didn't eat for the next 20 days! Yes you can go that long on just Gatorade. Life felt so surreal. When I could manage it, I would hop on this board and read untill my eyes hurt. Just knowing others had done it before me was so comforting. Just the hell I went through physically is enough to keep me off the painkillers. That was the most wacked out couple of months of my life. It's strange that people you have never met can seem like friends anyway. I am struggling so hard right now. Believe it or not I reeeeely want my soma back. Just knowing there is no physical withrawl symptoms with such a nice buzz is just mentally freaking me out. I hate booze and I'll never touch the hard Narcs again but that soma has a mental tug on me that is hard for any of my close friends here at home to understand. It's like I can just hear my old pain med doc calling my name. God, I wish he would just go out of business so It wouldn't be so easy to make an appointment. It just never goes away does it! That urge to just escape sometimes is so overwhelming that it just makes me sick. Wife, 2 kids, steady job...and lots of bills...run of the mill I guess..but so, so hard to handle every now and then. Anyhow, just wanted to say thank you to everyone who posted stuff I needed during such a hard time. I figured since the Thomas question was answered it would be ok for me to butt in on this post to say thanks.
Is that K for Kevorkian? (I'm just hanging on til he makes parole.)
Soma over Oxy, huh? I've never heard that one before. I'd vault a dozen crates of Soma to get to one bottle of Oxy! Maybe two or three dead pharmacists, as well. I doubt if that will ever be an Olympic event ... a pity, though. I coulda been a contenda.
Thomas
Soma over Oxy, huh? I've never heard that one before. I'd vault a dozen crates of Soma to get to one bottle of Oxy! Maybe two or three dead pharmacists, as well. I doubt if that will ever be an Olympic event ... a pity, though. I coulda been a contenda.
Thomas
Hey man, how are you today? I appreciate you reminding me that it takes alot of work on my part to make this life without Oxycontin work. I'm trying hard; I just wish I had more energy and felt better. I haven't given in yet, even though I've had 3 people call to let me know that the magical yellow and green beans are available. Like you said, just run the tape to the end and look at the misery that follows. Beating that oxycontin is a *****; those things are just so damned addictive. I'm clean today, and I hope I will be clean tomorrow night at this same p.m. Enjoy your Sunday evening, and remember, it could be much, much worse; we could be over in the desert fighting the sand men and having WD's over there! Wouldn't that be a *****? Thanks for listening.
SABIAN
SABIAN
Have you started an exercise program(of any kind) and the L-Tyrosine?? I just can't remember if you told me that yet.....
If you haven't, you would be amazed how it will help kick the **** out of the "blahs"........and re-energize you.
I've said numerous times, that after i got about a month clean, the most powerful recovery tool, has been getting back to the gym.
Hang in there brother!!!!
If you haven't, you would be amazed how it will help kick the **** out of the "blahs"........and re-energize you.
I've said numerous times, that after i got about a month clean, the most powerful recovery tool, has been getting back to the gym.
Hang in there brother!!!!
Hello There!!
In your explanation of the Thomas Plan you said to try and use Valium or Klonopin and not Xanax. Why? Just wondering cause I have someone real close to me who takes 1.0(blue's) every night and sometimes 2 if the they need it. It was prescpribed by a physician who is using this to replace Elavil(not sure bout that spelling). Are xanax easy to get addicted to?
In your explanation of the Thomas Plan you said to try and use Valium or Klonopin and not Xanax. Why? Just wondering cause I have someone real close to me who takes 1.0(blue's) every night and sometimes 2 if the they need it. It was prescpribed by a physician who is using this to replace Elavil(not sure bout that spelling). Are xanax easy to get addicted to?
re: Xanax, yes, very easy to get hooked on. At least your friend is only taking it at bedtime. Xanax has an especially dramatic onset that people start liking in a hurry. The action of Valium or Klonopin is slower. And both leave the body more gradually than Xanax, which makes discontinuing them easier.
And it's the Marshall Plan and the Thomas Recipe. Neither has anything to do with the other. Of course, Germans could use the Thomas Recipe ... just not while they're rebuilding their country using our money.
Thomas
And it's the Marshall Plan and the Thomas Recipe. Neither has anything to do with the other. Of course, Germans could use the Thomas Recipe ... just not while they're rebuilding their country using our money.
Thomas
Esgic Plus:
So everyone knows I never have asked for help before in regards to my addiction with Esgic Plus. This is the first time I ever went to a forum.
I have tried over and over to get off of this medication and I just can't seem to do it. I do okay after the shear hell of 7-10 days of no sleep, pounding heachaces and of course the "fog" goes away, but I go right back on it after I get through it. The last time I couldn't even go off because the pain in my head was so bad, which I believe Thomas mentioned about caffiene causing.
I guess I have always been the addictive type - cocaine being one when I was in my 20's. Ever seen the movie Blow? That was me, but I got help and moved on with life.
I'm a sucessful business person and I feel I have to have them. For some reason I feel like they give me energy, but in reality I pass out dead to the world. My poor husband knows how I am addicted now **again***, only because I admit it every time when I finally want to stop.
This is at least the 20th time I have stopped and always start again. I hate these damn pills. I take up to 10 or more pills a day. I have been off of them for all of 6 hours and I'm freaking out. I was only taking 6 a day (like that is any better), but recently my work is pulling some real b.s. after 7 years of dedication to them. You know how it goes.....Move the new guy in and the old out. They are trying to push me out with new Management. I made those S.O.B.'s over 50 million dollars and of course I sure didn't see 50 million - not even close. I guess it helps me cope to pop pills. I feel really weak and alone. I'm afraid to tell my Doctor because he may not let me go the taper off route and then what? Well, I guess it couldn't hurt - all he can say is no.
I can't function at work, if I don't take them I'm a wreck. What should I do?
So everyone knows I never have asked for help before in regards to my addiction with Esgic Plus. This is the first time I ever went to a forum.
I have tried over and over to get off of this medication and I just can't seem to do it. I do okay after the shear hell of 7-10 days of no sleep, pounding heachaces and of course the "fog" goes away, but I go right back on it after I get through it. The last time I couldn't even go off because the pain in my head was so bad, which I believe Thomas mentioned about caffiene causing.
I guess I have always been the addictive type - cocaine being one when I was in my 20's. Ever seen the movie Blow? That was me, but I got help and moved on with life.
I'm a sucessful business person and I feel I have to have them. For some reason I feel like they give me energy, but in reality I pass out dead to the world. My poor husband knows how I am addicted now **again***, only because I admit it every time when I finally want to stop.
This is at least the 20th time I have stopped and always start again. I hate these damn pills. I take up to 10 or more pills a day. I have been off of them for all of 6 hours and I'm freaking out. I was only taking 6 a day (like that is any better), but recently my work is pulling some real b.s. after 7 years of dedication to them. You know how it goes.....Move the new guy in and the old out. They are trying to push me out with new Management. I made those S.O.B.'s over 50 million dollars and of course I sure didn't see 50 million - not even close. I guess it helps me cope to pop pills. I feel really weak and alone. I'm afraid to tell my Doctor because he may not let me go the taper off route and then what? Well, I guess it couldn't hurt - all he can say is no.
I can't function at work, if I don't take them I'm a wreck. What should I do?
You named what is, as far as I know, the only way to safely discontinue Esgic plus (Fioricet): a slow taper over at least one or two months. That will take discipline. If your husband is willing, perhaps you should draw up a taper schedule and have him give you each day's ration. Just remember, the lower your taper dosage gets, the slower you should reduce the dosage (meaning smaller reductions with more time between the reductions). You should not try to decrease the dosage each day or even every other day. It's better to make a reduction, then stay at the level for a few days until you feel stable. Then reduce again, etc.
As for telling your doc, well, that's dicey. On the one hand, he might be supportive of your efforts to get off the Esgic. On the other hand, he might cut you off and refer you to a rehab.
Whatever you do, do NOT try to go off Esgic Plus cold turkey. You could seizure or worse.
If you think you and your husband can do this without medical intervention, I'd say nothing to your doctor in order to have enough Esgic to complete the taper. Also, because of your situation at work, you may not want to go into rehab. If the news reached your enemies at work, I imagine they could use that as an excuse to demote you or worse. (I know that isn't "legal," but I'm sure you know all the ways companies have to ditch someone and avoid liability.)
I know that many people need the help of a rehab to stop using. But I also know that all of us have to eventually learn to do without these drugs without outside help or force. A tapering experience would be good for you. If you fail the first time, don't beat yourself up over it. Just regroup and start again.
Recovery is a learned skill.
Also, you might post up in the first thread to attract the attention of some people here who are fighting the same battle as you are. I would call your drug by its common name, Fioricet. Good luck.
Thomas
As for telling your doc, well, that's dicey. On the one hand, he might be supportive of your efforts to get off the Esgic. On the other hand, he might cut you off and refer you to a rehab.
Whatever you do, do NOT try to go off Esgic Plus cold turkey. You could seizure or worse.
If you think you and your husband can do this without medical intervention, I'd say nothing to your doctor in order to have enough Esgic to complete the taper. Also, because of your situation at work, you may not want to go into rehab. If the news reached your enemies at work, I imagine they could use that as an excuse to demote you or worse. (I know that isn't "legal," but I'm sure you know all the ways companies have to ditch someone and avoid liability.)
I know that many people need the help of a rehab to stop using. But I also know that all of us have to eventually learn to do without these drugs without outside help or force. A tapering experience would be good for you. If you fail the first time, don't beat yourself up over it. Just regroup and start again.
Recovery is a learned skill.
Also, you might post up in the first thread to attract the attention of some people here who are fighting the same battle as you are. I would call your drug by its common name, Fioricet. Good luck.
Thomas
Hi Thomas,
I'm glad you answered :)
I can go the taper down route, but I can guarantee the Doctor won't prescribe them. I think he knows I have a problem because the last prescription was denied and that's why I see him tomorrow.
I can't go in rehab because I'm the bread winner of the family. He knows the work issue, so maybe he can help me somehow. I think I was trying to dull the pain of my stress in the workplace the last 5 years. I don't know and it's no excuse.
I wonder if a "dispensing" Doctor can help me monitor this? I've heard of them, but not sure how safe these Doctor's are.
I'm glad you answered :)
I can go the taper down route, but I can guarantee the Doctor won't prescribe them. I think he knows I have a problem because the last prescription was denied and that's why I see him tomorrow.
I can't go in rehab because I'm the bread winner of the family. He knows the work issue, so maybe he can help me somehow. I think I was trying to dull the pain of my stress in the workplace the last 5 years. I don't know and it's no excuse.
I wonder if a "dispensing" Doctor can help me monitor this? I've heard of them, but not sure how safe these Doctor's are.
If you are doing a medicated detox, try to taper with a differerent, preferably weaker, structurally differernt opiate. If you still feel weird, go for a differernt, weaker opiate the foillowing weak- say Darvon -in the smallest dodes possible.) Any of the BENZodiazipines work well. I recommend Xanax or Ativan, and sometimes Teazapam for sleep. But do not take more than it is "prescribed for", and try to take only what you need because of the real addictive potential of Benzos (Respect their power and danger).
Hey Roxxy,
I'm another fiorinal addict & I just wanted to tell you to IGNORE the advice given by B---S--TSills re: "switching to another opiate" to detox.
Right now I'm so angry at what she advised you my hands are shaking! Thomas' had it nailed in his post. YOU ABSOLUTELY MUST NOT & CAN NOT GO COLD TURKEY OFF ESGIC/FIORCET. This drug is NOT an opiate but a barbituate in the sedative/hypnotic category. Opiates and barbituates are like apples and oranges & an opiate will not prevent the dangerous withdrawal associated with barbituates.
There's a group of us who were/are all in the same boat as you & most of us go to neurologist/headache specialists who detox us off very slowly. There's no hard & fast formula but some people decrease 1 tablet per day - or 7 a wk. - every 2 wks. Even that's a struggle as fiorcet stays in the body from 2-6 mos. Additionally, 3 of us here are using neurontin to help with withdrawal symptoms & headache relief. Much to all our surprise, it has helped.
I've decreased from 15 F plain a day to 6 in about 2 yrs.
JR has gine from 20 F, mostly with codeine a day to 6 Plain in about 9 mos.
I can't remember Kat & Golden's consumption!
Roxxy, it is VERY important you find a doctor who will work with you on a slow detox. If headaches are a serious problem, a neurologist/headache specialist might be the person, or an addictionologist. Going slow minimizes the withdrawal symptoms which are rather unpleasant, to say the least!
We have a really terrific, supportive gang of fiorinal addicts ;-) on another forum & we'd love to have you join us but I don't want to put up the forum site as we have a know-it-nothing who might intrude on our safe haven. However, I will find a way to get you the info. if you're interested. In the meantime, feel free to ask any questions, stay strong and IGNORE any "advice" BSills offers you. Her goddamn "advice" could have killed you & I'm not kidding.
Best,
Dancing in the Dark
I'm another fiorinal addict & I just wanted to tell you to IGNORE the advice given by B---S--TSills re: "switching to another opiate" to detox.
Right now I'm so angry at what she advised you my hands are shaking! Thomas' had it nailed in his post. YOU ABSOLUTELY MUST NOT & CAN NOT GO COLD TURKEY OFF ESGIC/FIORCET. This drug is NOT an opiate but a barbituate in the sedative/hypnotic category. Opiates and barbituates are like apples and oranges & an opiate will not prevent the dangerous withdrawal associated with barbituates.
There's a group of us who were/are all in the same boat as you & most of us go to neurologist/headache specialists who detox us off very slowly. There's no hard & fast formula but some people decrease 1 tablet per day - or 7 a wk. - every 2 wks. Even that's a struggle as fiorcet stays in the body from 2-6 mos. Additionally, 3 of us here are using neurontin to help with withdrawal symptoms & headache relief. Much to all our surprise, it has helped.
I've decreased from 15 F plain a day to 6 in about 2 yrs.
JR has gine from 20 F, mostly with codeine a day to 6 Plain in about 9 mos.
I can't remember Kat & Golden's consumption!
Roxxy, it is VERY important you find a doctor who will work with you on a slow detox. If headaches are a serious problem, a neurologist/headache specialist might be the person, or an addictionologist. Going slow minimizes the withdrawal symptoms which are rather unpleasant, to say the least!
We have a really terrific, supportive gang of fiorinal addicts ;-) on another forum & we'd love to have you join us but I don't want to put up the forum site as we have a know-it-nothing who might intrude on our safe haven. However, I will find a way to get you the info. if you're interested. In the meantime, feel free to ask any questions, stay strong and IGNORE any "advice" BSills offers you. Her goddamn "advice" could have killed you & I'm not kidding.
Best,
Dancing in the Dark
Dancing in the Dark :)
I found your other site already by reading many strings, so you can read what Golden Slipper & Kat said.
I'm waiting on the "big" guy now - Mr. JR.....hopefully he has some insight on the right amount to use at first. I'm working with my Doctor now.
Yesterday I had 9 because I was so out of sorts and this a.m. I'm reallly in pain. I don't want to taper too much, so I can't function. My head is pounding so bad and yes the neck pain is horrible :(
I saw the other posting that bashes whatever you had said on a string and I responded. I never saw the original string.
Take care,
Roxxy
I found your other site already by reading many strings, so you can read what Golden Slipper & Kat said.
I'm waiting on the "big" guy now - Mr. JR.....hopefully he has some insight on the right amount to use at first. I'm working with my Doctor now.
Yesterday I had 9 because I was so out of sorts and this a.m. I'm reallly in pain. I don't want to taper too much, so I can't function. My head is pounding so bad and yes the neck pain is horrible :(
I saw the other posting that bashes whatever you had said on a string and I responded. I never saw the original string.
Take care,
Roxxy
Hi, Roxxy. Sorry I didn't see your posts sooner, but I moved over to the "drugabuse.com" board - go there, and click on "support" and you will find a thread called something like "Fiorinal/cet Adiction #2". That's where our little group posts now. No offense to Medhelp, but they have deleted and locked up our threads several times - a "space" problem I guess.
Anyway, I'll respond here to you this on time......
I am not a doctor or anything. But, after using Fiorinal/Fiorinal with Codeine/Fioricet (Esgic) for more than 20 years, and taking as much as 20 pills a day as recently as August, and trying to quit multiple times, I probably know more than most doctors about how this stuff affects you, withdrawal and a lot more.
Up until September '02, I did it all. An orthopedic surgeon started me on Fiorinal and Fiorinal #3. He kept prescribing (way too many) for about seven years, then cut me off because he had been sued for over prescribing pain meds. I went to other docs, then tried detox about ten years ago. I was in a rehab/detox center for 28 days. It was pure hell, they really didn't understand barbituate addiction, and when I was released, they gave me tylenol! After about a month, I was back on Fiorinal. Net, net.... over 20+ years, I went to multiple docs and got prescriptions then filled them at different pharmacies. I had docs cut me off, went to new ones, etc. I finally, a few years ago, started writing my own prescriptions and filled them for several years until I got caught. I was arrested, and luckily I had a good lawyer and the DA and judge were great. I got a "Filed without a Finding" judgement - I have to keep seeing my neurologist and keep tapering, and I am on probation for two years. After two years, everything goes away, just like it never happenned. Lucky!
Anyway, Roxxy, like you I am a succesful business person. I have a very stressful job and have to travel a lot. I have been married for more than 25 years and have three great grown up kids. Somehow, despite all the F I was taking, I managed to raise my kids, stay married, and do pretty well. I was truly a "functioning addict". No one knew about my secret, until I told my family and doctor lsdt fall.
After I was arrested the end of August, I started to taper on my own because I was running out!. I had an appointment with a new doc coming up in September, but otherwise no way to get more F's. I tapered from 20/day to 12 a day in a month. It was very difficult - I couldn't sleep, had musclle cramps and god awful h/aches. Then I saw my new primary care doc. I told him EVERYTHING. It was the first time I ever did that with a doc. He was great. He immediately had me see a neurologist who specialized in headaches and pain med abuse.
The neuro agreed to help me taper if I only saw her and followed her program - I agreed. She said she would taper me down by one pill every month or so, since I had been on it for so long. She put me on Neurontin, which helps prevent/lessen headaches, and really helps settle you down. The first day on it, I had the best night's sleep in years. Then the next day, no hangover or anything. My dose had been gradually increased and I have no side effects. I am now down to 6 F's per day, and working on getting down to 5/day. This doc gives me 10 days supply of F, then I have to call her for a refill. I see her every month. She is really doing a great job in helping me.
Roxxy, I feel your pain. This is tough, but we can do it. Please join our group! Having been through it all, I can say that with only a few exceptions, detox will not help you. You should find a good neurologist who is willing to help you through this. If you go to one and he/she won't help, find another doc. They should put you on a reasonable taper program, and they should give you something non-addicting to help, like Neurontin. You might also need something like Immitrex for the "breakthrough migraines". You should go to only this one doc, no cheating.
Meanwhile, or if you can't find the right doc, take Thomas' advice and have your husband help you thru this. Set up a taper schedule and have him hold onto the F's, and give you a day's worth each morning. If you know that's all you have, you wil be more likely to not go over your set amount. Cut down by one pill per month - that's fast enough. If you get h/aches in between the F's , take Advil Migraine (2 pills) - that will help. By the way, a little secret from my doc - if you can't sleep at night, buy some Benadryl pils/caps. You an get them over the counter at any drug store of supermarket. Many have their own brand and you can get 100 pils for about $4.00. Benadryl is an antihistime, harmless and non-adicting. About half an hour after you take it, it make you tired. Take 2 pills before bedtime. They will help you fall asleep, and there are usually no side effects.
Roxxy, please join our group so we know how you're doing. I don't monitor this board, but I do check the other on every day! There is a lot of help and support there.
Good luck. You are a successful bussiness person, and you can do this. You just need some determination and a lot of help. And, if you slip some days, don't panic - just go back on your program the next day.
I hope to hear from you soon, and hope you succeed - as I know you will. Together, we'll all make it.
Best,
JR (FiorinalJR)
Anyway, I'll respond here to you this on time......
I am not a doctor or anything. But, after using Fiorinal/Fiorinal with Codeine/Fioricet (Esgic) for more than 20 years, and taking as much as 20 pills a day as recently as August, and trying to quit multiple times, I probably know more than most doctors about how this stuff affects you, withdrawal and a lot more.
Up until September '02, I did it all. An orthopedic surgeon started me on Fiorinal and Fiorinal #3. He kept prescribing (way too many) for about seven years, then cut me off because he had been sued for over prescribing pain meds. I went to other docs, then tried detox about ten years ago. I was in a rehab/detox center for 28 days. It was pure hell, they really didn't understand barbituate addiction, and when I was released, they gave me tylenol! After about a month, I was back on Fiorinal. Net, net.... over 20+ years, I went to multiple docs and got prescriptions then filled them at different pharmacies. I had docs cut me off, went to new ones, etc. I finally, a few years ago, started writing my own prescriptions and filled them for several years until I got caught. I was arrested, and luckily I had a good lawyer and the DA and judge were great. I got a "Filed without a Finding" judgement - I have to keep seeing my neurologist and keep tapering, and I am on probation for two years. After two years, everything goes away, just like it never happenned. Lucky!
Anyway, Roxxy, like you I am a succesful business person. I have a very stressful job and have to travel a lot. I have been married for more than 25 years and have three great grown up kids. Somehow, despite all the F I was taking, I managed to raise my kids, stay married, and do pretty well. I was truly a "functioning addict". No one knew about my secret, until I told my family and doctor lsdt fall.
After I was arrested the end of August, I started to taper on my own because I was running out!. I had an appointment with a new doc coming up in September, but otherwise no way to get more F's. I tapered from 20/day to 12 a day in a month. It was very difficult - I couldn't sleep, had musclle cramps and god awful h/aches. Then I saw my new primary care doc. I told him EVERYTHING. It was the first time I ever did that with a doc. He was great. He immediately had me see a neurologist who specialized in headaches and pain med abuse.
The neuro agreed to help me taper if I only saw her and followed her program - I agreed. She said she would taper me down by one pill every month or so, since I had been on it for so long. She put me on Neurontin, which helps prevent/lessen headaches, and really helps settle you down. The first day on it, I had the best night's sleep in years. Then the next day, no hangover or anything. My dose had been gradually increased and I have no side effects. I am now down to 6 F's per day, and working on getting down to 5/day. This doc gives me 10 days supply of F, then I have to call her for a refill. I see her every month. She is really doing a great job in helping me.
Roxxy, I feel your pain. This is tough, but we can do it. Please join our group! Having been through it all, I can say that with only a few exceptions, detox will not help you. You should find a good neurologist who is willing to help you through this. If you go to one and he/she won't help, find another doc. They should put you on a reasonable taper program, and they should give you something non-addicting to help, like Neurontin. You might also need something like Immitrex for the "breakthrough migraines". You should go to only this one doc, no cheating.
Meanwhile, or if you can't find the right doc, take Thomas' advice and have your husband help you thru this. Set up a taper schedule and have him hold onto the F's, and give you a day's worth each morning. If you know that's all you have, you wil be more likely to not go over your set amount. Cut down by one pill per month - that's fast enough. If you get h/aches in between the F's , take Advil Migraine (2 pills) - that will help. By the way, a little secret from my doc - if you can't sleep at night, buy some Benadryl pils/caps. You an get them over the counter at any drug store of supermarket. Many have their own brand and you can get 100 pils for about $4.00. Benadryl is an antihistime, harmless and non-adicting. About half an hour after you take it, it make you tired. Take 2 pills before bedtime. They will help you fall asleep, and there are usually no side effects.
Roxxy, please join our group so we know how you're doing. I don't monitor this board, but I do check the other on every day! There is a lot of help and support there.
Good luck. You are a successful bussiness person, and you can do this. You just need some determination and a lot of help. And, if you slip some days, don't panic - just go back on your program the next day.
I hope to hear from you soon, and hope you succeed - as I know you will. Together, we'll all make it.
Best,
JR (FiorinalJR)
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