Wow... the forum is taking more than one question today!

[GOD]

Let's have this string begin with the serenity prayer:

God grant me the serenity
To accept the things I cannot change;
Courage to change the things I can;
And wisdom to know the difference.

Why did I post that particular message you may ask....

Because it helps me keep CLEAN and SOBER. I probably say it in my head 20 times per day, and it works for me! It's not necessarily religious at all, because if you don't believe in God, you may replace the word "God" with whatever you feel is YOUR "Higher Power"-- a group of your close friends, an AA or NA meeting, Etc. Etc.

Feel free to comment or just ask whatever your question is... Do not worry about "Breaking the string"

Peace and SERENITY to ALL!!!

Jess

[mrmichael67]

Everyone is different.  Some people may get a blockade from as little as 20mg.

[mrmichael67]

One good way to tell is to stop the methadone and take the morphine only for a day or two and see what happens.  If you feel no differently, then it isn't creating a blockade.  If you feel the morphine more, then it is.

[Hinkster]

I was just wondering about that blockade effect of methadone. You
said it depends on how much methadone you take. I think I told you before I take 20mgs of methadone a day along with 600mgs of
morphine ir. Is that enough methadone to block out all that
morphine? I also appreciate all the tremendous and accurate advice you deliver. Keep answering all the questions you can.
Tom

[Witchywoman]

Yep, I was walking around with all these tacks in my ears, pressing on them like crazy! lol  Pressing on them really helps release a shot of endorphins.

good luck!

WW

[samar]

Thanks WW for your response.  It is a shame you got made fun of when acupuncture can be such a positive thing.  Yes I was honest with the woman who treated me and currently have five needles in my ear!  Didn't know they released endorphins.  She told me to press on them, I think I'll try that right now!  :)  I really appreciate your feedback and hope that people out there read it.

Blessings to you,
Ali

[Witchywoman]

Samar,
I do have a very positive opinion of acupuncture to help withdrawals.

When I went through my detox, I went to see my acupuncturist for three days in a row, and I swear to Goddess that after the very first session, on day two of detox, the withdrawls subsided substantially. They truly did.  Within 15 minutes of the needles being placed, the gooseflesh and hotflashes subsided, and the effects lasted.  I swear by it.

I was reluctant to respond, because I got made fun of on another board for discussing the helpfullness of acupuncture, and didn't want to start another flame war about it.

But, for anyone who is open to trying it, it sure can't hurt to give it a try. Most people who try it for detox will be helped by it, enormously.  My acupuncturist has a contract with the city of Berkeley (yeah I know..Berkeley...)to treat Heroin addits who are repeatedly busted.  She treats folks who don't even want to quit, but many of them end up staying clean for a long time, or even getting into ongoing recovery because she helps them so much.

So, I am a huge acupuncture fan, who speaks from experience.
I still see my acupuncturist once a week to help treat my chronic back pain.

By the way..if you go to an acupuncturist for detox, be sure to tell the person that you are there for detox, as there are specific things they will do differently.  Ask them to leave the tacks in the ear points, so that you can press on them every once in a while to get your brain producing endorphins faster. The ear points also help you sleep better.

thanks Samar, for bringing up this very helpful point.
love and light to you,
WW

[GOD]

Hey Alexandra!

Thanks for the kind words. the original post is listed on MY computer as a post TO me.

Congratulations on your sobriety... Boy, those using dreams are a *****, aren't they?

Keep on Keepin' on!
Jess

[alexandra_r]

I don't know why it is not listed on the board--but the above comment is for you, Jes.

[alexandra_r]

Thanks for posting the serenity prayer yesterday.  It helped me a lot yesterday.  I used to go to AA when I got clean from heroin (about ten years ago).  I think it saved my life at that time.  I went for a long time--about 3 years and then quit going.  I have never felt that I was an alcoholic--I rarely drink and when I do, I only have 1 or 2 glasses of wine at most.  When I told the people at the meetings that I went to that I had a glass of wine one night with dinner, they all told me that it was not going to work--that I was just "controlling" my drinking.  I felt that the attitude was a little inflexible at that time and, in fact, I stayed clean from all drugs for 7 more years after that.  Even this time, I never used more vicodin than were prescribed--I never tried to fill a script early.  I got my ass kicked so hard from heroin that it just stuck I guess.

Plus, I have a theory--I truly believe there are different types of addicts.  One is the kind that is genetically addictive and the other is situationally addictive.   The genetically addictive addict will rarely be able to use drugs because they have an actual genetic link that triggers when their body is introduced to a substance.  This type of addict can also rarely taper off drugs.  The situationally addictive addict may (not always) learn to take drugs responsibly and may have a drink or two and not just "switch substances."  This type of addict may also be able to taper successfully.  I think that I am this type of addict because there is no history of addiction or alcoholism anywhere in my family history.  I started using drugs because I was in a punk rock band in San Francisco and drugs were everywhere.  Literally everyone I knew used a substance of one kind or another.  I got physically addicted to heroin at that time and stayed addicted a long time.  My rock heroes were Lou Reed and Jim Morrison and I crazily wanted to follow in their footsteps (although my guitar playing ain't at their level, that's for damn sure!).  

This is turning out to be a long post--sorry (if you're still reading--LOL)--but AA gave me the tools I needed to stay clean for as long as I did.  You just reminded me to pick up some of those tools again and I thank you for that.  The serenity prayer was a lifesaver for me yesterday.

[skipper]

hi:
just wanted to say hi to everyone. to thost detoxing...there is a way thru. i've been and will be really busy at work
keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[mrmichael67]

Just realized that cleanman is from England, so I correct myself.  When I saw the word "mate" I thought Australia.  I figured I better correct myself before I get reamed.

[fishman59]

Hey dude-way to defend yourself!! personally I think the information you hand out is relevant and needed by alot of people!!BUT anyone that does'nt check into information given by anyone even a "doctor" is in for some trouble..this internet thingy makes research into your own "cures" a fairly easy thing to do.Personally I ask questions cause I'm lazy and don't want to take the time to look up all the answers,that and its nice in a sick sort of way to see that I'm not alone.

[fishman59]

just wanted to say sorry for the cut-off and ..how do you say that..YOU GO GIRL, don't take any ****

[mrmichael67]

Thank you for the support!  I can't believe that I caught **** for Thomas' recipe!  And, I guess if I smoke pot and listen to the dead and floyd, I must not have any gray matter.  You know how many doctors, college professors, and so on smoke weed?  Sorry, but I am quite fumed about this.  I guess cleanman felt it was a competition to get jes20 to take his advice and saw me as a thorn in his side.  What else could it be?

[koalabear]

Well having 5 days of detoxing in hell,  with no sunshine in sight, withdrawals not subsiding, yet worsening.  I am now the proud owner of METHADONE.  Totally went against all of my huge plans to be drug free in one week, now it is a management that may take up to 7 months.  Isn't that lovely?  I am HORRIFIED, PISSED OFF and DISGUSTED.  
Doc: "Your body will not handle a rapid detoxification and it seems to me that a more managed approach should be implemented"
HELLOOOOOOOOO doc.  I've been through 5 days of hell and now you tell me this.

So, if anyone could tell me about this saviour of a drug called Methadone, what it is, does all that happy stuff, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks, Koala

[hippy]

i have alreasy posted my gratitude in the past for all your
help and knowledge to the fourm, and nothing has changed.
this is not the 1st time we have had to support you.
i think some people look for negitive things to say about other's
probley due to some sort of childish envey.
some people think if a person is not totly clean
what they say could never be valid. i have met a lot of people in 12 step fellow ships like this. i  under stand how they think
, i just think it is pre judging and wrong.
well  i feel bad you have to defend youself.
i am sure it will pass , and you seem to be well armed with
more than enough information, knowledge and personal experence.

peace                                                                     you have a lot of people here who know how good you have been in helping others.............................  thanks agian

[koalabear]

ALSO, WHILE I AM BITCHING...........

BEFORE YOU GO BUY THE THOMAS RECIPE, MAKE SURE THAT YOU CAN HANDLE SWALLOWING THIS WHILE FEELING NAUSEATED, SHAKY ETC.
I THINK I WASTED $70 AND IT'S STILL SITTING ON MY SIDEBOARD

SMILE  :\

[samar]

so has anybody even thought of acupuncture as an alternative?  (no pun intended really  :)  Is it thought of as too far out or something?  Not one person responded to it and I find that sort of surprising.  I had my second session today and I am telling you it Works!  I guess I am just excited about it and would love other people to benefit from it, but if not that's ok.  I am so glad there is this forum from which people can express and exchange whatever works for them.  I am sure this site is saving a LOT of grief for many including me.  It has helped me realize I am NOT alone........thanks     :)  Ali

[mrmichael67]

What is your plan with the methadone?  How much are you taking?  How long are you going to be on the same dose before you are tapered downward?  Did the doctor try to put you on the duragesic 25 first?  I can't say whether methadone is what you should be on now.  Why didn't your doc try to do a taper with other available opioids?  Methadone works nice for a detox when used for a short period of time.  Seven months is a long time.  Methadone will create a blockade to other opioids, depending on how much you are prescribed.  Fill me in on some of the questions I asked and I promise I will stick with you on this.

[koalabear]

The patches won't stay on.  I'm tired of fighting with them.I had such incredible w/ds that I was suicidal.  He put me on Ativan and Lorazepam and upped my doseage of Vicodin to 15 mg. 4x/d.  This was a godsend.  However he's weaning me off everything slowly (oh, I forgot Clonidin-maybe that's the same as something else) but anyhow... I wanted cold turkey, couldn't do it.  Asked for help with the drawls, that's what he gave me. Now I am taking methadone instead of Vic. to be weaned as well as the rest.  I said 7 months because I am frustrated about not not being able to do this cold turkey with the recipe and all.  I hadn't eaten in 4 days until tonight. I couldn't even hold down the recipe.  I am feeling lots better, even feel like I could sleep.  Didn't have one bath today, so something is working in my favor.  I just don't want to be on methadone for long.  If I have to wean further on my own will, then I will do it.  I have the will power just not the body that will allow the heebeejeebees.  Do you know what I mean.  I feel like no one is listening to me.  If you would please take me in under your gracious humungous wing, I need you.  Thanks, Mike...I always look for your posts they are very knowledgeable.

[koalabear]

methadose 5 mg 1-2 4x/dy prn pain (he had to put pain)

but when can i start weaning?

He wanted to use Duragesic 25 and I said NO.  I can't keep the damn things on.  I am too active and sweat a lot, swim, etc.

[lostlady]

Just wanted to second Kell's opinion.  Your posts are very helpful and informative and have been invaluable to me.  I appreciate all the information I've read from all sources but your posts especially have been the most helpful.  Just wanted to say thanks and to let you know that YOU ARE APPRECIATED!!!

[kell737]

Just for the record reading your post has helped me out the most.  Don't let people like that come here and ruin things.  Your obviously very intelligent because I've tried several things you have uggested and they have so much been helpful!  I want to be one to thank you from the bottom of my heart for your advice and opionins.  4 days is a long time for me.... the longest.   Agein ... I cant thank any of you guys enough.  Just so you guys know ...I dont usually ask for much from anyone but I would like to ask for everyone to pray that I don't "bust" on this detox.  

~kell

[mrmichael67]

Good job!  You are almost there.  You don't want those four days to go to waste.  It will get easier.

Aussibabe/Cleanman:  As for the recipe, if you have read through previous posts, GWH had asked me for info about vitamins and whatever from the recipe.  I even responded to him that I was not the one to ask, it is not my recipe.  I don't have one.  As far as methadone, not everyone is in the same camp as far as methadone is concerned.  There are those that are totally against it, no matter what.  That is a shame.  Being a counselor doesn't give you credentials as far as methadone is concerned.  What the hell, do I have to put footnotes at the bottom of my posts, showing where the info came from?  Like I have said previously, any med info I share can easily be found by doing a search with your favorite search engine.  And, you shouldn't discount the voice of experience, because I have been there also.  I have never professed to be a doctor or anything along those lines.  I have done a ton of research on the topic of opiate addiction, pain management, and whatever else associated with them because it affects me and I have taken an active interest in finding out why opiates do what they do.  Do not discount me for being educated on the subject.  Just because I don't have an MD after my name does not mean I have not studied it.  It would be different if I never took an opiate in my life and tried to give people advice on what they should do.  But, that is not the case.  I am in the same boat as many here.  Luckily, I have managed to get my meds to last the entire month.  It wasn't always like that.  I am also a moderator on another addiction board.  My work goes beyond what I post here.  I have steered many toward recovery or effective pain management behind the scenes.  A few that most likely would have commited suicide because they wouldn't know where to go didn't because of me.  Cleanman got on me because of the pellet issue.  Sorry, but it is not meant to be used for years.  After a period of time, you have to be able to stand on your own two feet and not lean on the pellet.  Not everyone is going to agree with you, but to tear into me and say I have no experience in this?  You've got some ******* nerve!