PLEASE HELP!!! My friend is going to inject ehpidrine

[needhelpplease]

My friend is addicted to speed. Recently she found she could get ephidrine or pep pills over the counter and is going to inject them. Is this more harmful for her than speed will it kill her?? Help me please I dont want her to die!

[spook]

I have injected Ephedrine hcl,(I bought a 25gram tube of pure from a chemical supply warehouse)You need about 1 gram and it gets you about as High as a good strong cup of coffee,except coffee does not block up your sinuses and lasts much longer.
Their is no rush,so therefore no advantage in having it (IV)injected over orally and if it is pure(not extracted from tablets)then she has NO ie ZERO danger of dying.She will do it once and learn that it does not work.Try sex,that the best rush.

[macksdmf]

I just banged 8 of them at once .... still alive

[Gloria]

It really concerns me when you make comments like, "she has NO ie ZERO danger of dying."  Whenever anyone injects anything into their body, there is a risk of dying--whether it be from an allergic reaction to the drug or an infectious process that ultimately causes their death.  The risk is small, but there is always a risk.  Luke, you have been blessed in that you have apparently suffered no ill-effects from your many years of experimentation with some very dangerous drugs.  I am very happy for you, but under similar circumstances, not everyone has shared or enjoyed the same outcome.  Certainly, you have the right to say whatever you want on this forum.  As a physician, it just concerns me that someone might read your comment, see it as an endorsement, and end up dead.  You might view my opinion as an overreaction, but I have seen and experienced the ravages of drug use and misuse, firsthand.  Best wishes always.  Maria

[Frankinscense]

My sentiments exactly Maria. This guy spooks comes across like some drug know it all because he has experimented with various substances. It requires more knowledge than off the cuff information to be proficient in the make up of a drug. Personal opinions do not make spook a drug expert! Advice like he gave the questioner can be very dangerous. Anyway, what credentials does this guy have to give substance abuse information.
Dan...

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

This person asked about melting down and injecting OTC ephedrine and guaifenesin tablets.  I wouldn't do it!  No matter how hard you try to filter out all the nondisolvable fillers, some is bound to get into your blood stream and plug something up.  You could also get a serious infection like endocarditis which could be fatal.  

I live near a major truckstop that sells this stuff(Mini-Thins) OTC and know that there have been many drivers and workers who have OD'ed on the stuff.  Some of these people take 30 at a time!  One of the mechanics there had a cerebral hemmorage and hit a tree while driving home one night.  They were able to save him but he is a basic vegetable now after two years.  

Ephedrine is also used aroud here to make methamphetamines, so you are only allowed to buy two bottles at a time.  J.B.

[Brighty]

I agree !!! The possibilities are endless for a fatality or serious situation requiring emergency medical attention. It seems that Spook did tell us his professional expertise in another thread...but perhaps being a researcher/scientist does not give him a broad scope of medical knowledge. They are distinctly different fields. But common sense alone should dictate that injecting anything has a risk factor!! JB made the best specific point about the non-dissolvable particles..that alone is a very likely possibility. Sigh!!!! Brighty.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I have more than a little experience with IV substance abuse.  One thing that I want to point out is that no matter how careful you are, you will get hurt.  What else can I say?  J.B.

[cindi]

I agree with everybody re: the IV substance abuse.  I, like JB have had experience with IV drugs not only for personal use but as a nurse as well and prior to giving medication IV to patients there is protocol before and after.  Messing with anything like that...I don't have to say anymore, Everyone else has said it, and better than I could.  Now, I have a question to throw out at everyone, I really don't want to interrupt this thread but this site won't let me post a new question.   I think some of you know that I left the Nursing profession (of my own will) because of my struggle with dependancy.  I do go to nurses support group etc.  I plan on moving to Florida with in the next year.  I was kind of kicking around the idea of returning to Nursing and starting all over again?  Does anyone think this is either a wise decision or unwise?  I respect all of your opinions alot and would like to hear what you guys have to say.  Thanks   love ya  cindi

[PS >>>>Annie]

I think you are the best qualified to answer that question, but here is my input.  Gathering from your post, you definately procure compassion, which I believe, is lacking in the medical field today.  You seem to have a great deal of knowledge in the career you obviously worked so hard to attain. Now, about the addiction problem...do you think you are strong enough to be in the atmosphere of medicine? You are the best judge of that.  I know from experience that you will not be happy doing anything else that you are not called to do.  All I can say is, if you were at my bedside, I would feel comforted.  Your greatest attribute seems to be your compassion; which, can also be a downfall.  Can you handle it??  It's hard for me to be objective, because you seem to be a sweet person.  I wish you all the best, and hopefully some of our forum buddies will give you some input also.
Love,
Annie

[Beth]

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Hi Cindi...I think it takes a lot of courage to even think about what you are wanting to do. I know being a nurse must be hard enough, but I can't even imagine how it would be with dependency issues.

I think as long as you stay in a good support group and have a good accountability/support system <i>at all times</i>, then there is no reason why you should not return to the profession you love! Everyone stumbles in their own personal battles, and if you are having a bad or a 'weak' day, then maybe that day wouldn't be a good day to work. Just keep in mind things that will help keep you and your career healthy.

I will pray for you and I wish all the success in the world for you in this endeavor!<P></B>

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[Gloria]

I also have had extensive experience with IV drug use with a "Murphy's Law" type of outcome.  My supply came from pharmaceutical companies and I used sterile syringes.  Was I safe from the dangers of IV drug use?  No--I got bacterial endocarditis with severe valvular damage (from the endocarditis), required a heart transplant, received my heart from a 22 year old, heroin overdose; and now have Hep C, that was acquired from my "new" heart.  Do you think that you will ever read MY encouragement of drug use and/or experimentation on this forum?  Never!  I will, though, offer encouragement and support to anyone seeking to free themselves of the ravages of this insidious disease.  J.B., I appreciate your posts and sound advice to those on this forum.  If my memory serves me correctly, your wife was supposed to start her chemotherapy in March.  Is this right?  I wish you and your wife well.  I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.  Maria

[Gloria]

As an "impaired professional" (the term used for medical people that are drug addicts and alcoholics), I spent many years in "Caduceus" (a type of support group for medical professionals).  Sometimes, the docs were segregated from the nurses (an ego thing); other times, we were grouped together.  I learned many things from the nurses in my group--whether or not any of it will be helpful to you, I'm not certain.  Florida is a very tough state to transfer your license to.  If you have a history of licensure difficulties due to substance abuse, expect the journey to be difficult--that doesn't mean that it will be impossible, though.  If you have been out of nursing for several years, you might be required to take a refresher course as a prerequisite to transferring your license.  If the move to Florida is several months away, you might want to try to obtain some type of work in nursing BEFORE you move.  I would think that it would be easier to transfer a license if you are currently employed as a nurse.  Some states will not accept your license if it is encumbered by another state.  For me, my license has to be free of restrictions before I can get licensed in another state.  Regarding your question about "working in nursing..."  With the current, nationwide shortage of nurses, I believe you can find a job in nursing that affords you the opportunity to do what you love and are good at, but restricts your exposure to situations that could cause relapse.  Some states and/or employers, put restrictions on your ability to give scheduled drugs.  This could be a blessing because it would take the temptation away, but it could also be a curse in that it would limit your performance in clinical settings.  If transferring your license is too difficult, you might consider employment in a physicians' group.  Office nursing would allow you to do patient teaching, provide a valuable service, fine tune your skills, and provide you with local references that might have a positive impact on getting your license approved at a later date.  Cindi, I hope this is of some help and wish you the very best.  Maria

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I'm so sorry to hear that you've had some major health problems caused by IV drug use.  I also have Hep C and am in need of a new liver that will probably never happen.  I went through the combo treatment of Interferon and Rebetrol and was a non-responder.  I had to inject myself every three days with the Interferon and had some vivid flashbacks of my IV drug use.  In fact, I eventually had a relapse.  All that I can say is that I was young and stupid and made some very bad decisions for myself years ago.  And now I am paying the price!  Maybe some of the younger people here will read our posts and learn from our mistakes, rather than learn the hard way as you and I have.  I wish you the best, Maria!  J.B.

[Brighty]

YOU are the reasons I stay at this board as a personal form of support. It is also very humbling for me to be in the "company" of such courageous people. You are the light bearers of the world come to offer healing to those who are searching and stumbling in the darkness. I have spent some years attending Naranon and also NA in order to support and understand my daughter.... I have learned about the human condition. And as I listen to those of you called to healing in the medical profession ,I better understand the "wounded healer". I also remember our friend Brian who was a doctor who came here to offer us his knowledge and support but in struggling with his addiction has evaporated... hopefully temporarily.

Cindy, I cannot offer you better than Maria did especially about licensure. There may be facets of nursing that you are able to be of service if this is your calling, but where your access to temptation is non-existent. Only those of you in the profession will know what that may be. My personal take is while you have so much to offer that it is not worth exposing yourself unnecessarily, even if you are in recovery. Afterall, addiction is not a battle of will power and if you are not well you cannot give what you have because it is a consuming illness.

Maria... you cannot know what you have given me today. My fear of my daughter ever having a relapse is very consuming although I try hard to conceal it. This is how addiction kills all of us. In order for her to grow I have to let go..... I nearly lost her 7 times so it's easier said than done. That you are a survivor and have 15 years clean, a new heart and a spiritual renewal you have made me see that I need to have more faith in her ability to make the right choices. She too has Hep C and at 22 I pray that she has a chance to subdue or eliminate it since she knows this so early in her life. Thank you for your courage and the humility to share this with us. We revere our doctors and in doing so often forget that they too are human. If we look at their lives they often have to struggle with their own humanity and still present an image that is nearly impossible to live up. When they fall our society in turn is often not as forgiving.

JB... you are the friend of my heart... I don't think I need to say more.... to you I listen.

Love and prayers, Brighty

[The Dude]

Maria,
    How long did it take you to become a nurse?  What is the first step to becoming a nurse is what I'm asking, I guess?  Is it 4 years of regular college, then 2 years of a pre-med school?  
Thanks
Chad

[FlowerChild11601]

Hi Cindi!  I want you to know that YES, I do think you should return to the nursing profession.  Nurses are caregivers and a special group of people - not everyone can do it.  I also think that listening to you talk about your support groups etc, that you will be okay.  I personally know someone who is in recovery (sober 2 years) and going to nursing school.  When it got to the point where they were teaching about injecting, they all looked at her and said, "Wow! You really do that good!" - little did they know she had been in IV drug abuser for years!  She just smiles at them and lets them think she is great at student nursing!  lol

Anyway, being a nurse myself, there are a few things I want to point out to you:

You can do nursing that does not involve coming into contact with needles or any narcotic meds - forever or just in the beginning until you get used to it again.  (I am on a private duty case working 60 hours per week and making 70,000.00 per year taking care of one person with no contact with narcs or needles!)

You can be the on-call nurse for an agency (go out to people's houses and do assessments so that you are not actually involved in care so there is no contact with narcs/needles)

You can work for a nursing agency (make the most money) and schedule yourself to work ANYWHERE YOU WANT!  Home care, nursery school, school nurse etc. or anywhere that there is NO contact or LITTLE contact with narcs/needles - depending on how comfortable you are in your recovery

I know from talking to you that you a special and full of compassion and I think that those qualities are needed in our profession.  So, go for it Cindi!  Good luck and God Bless, Maryanne

PS - I am going back to Dr Gooberman on Friday and my husband is going to go too - we WILL get sober and we WILL prevail!!!

[Beth]

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Brighty, I just wanted to let you know that I will be in dilligent and fervent prayer for your daughter! I know what it is like to have a family member plagued by addiction, and it's so hard knowing that the only help that really will <i>help</i> is what they are willing to accept.

I am close to her age and struggle with <i>not</i> becoming addicted. It's either take pills or be in pain, but there is still a line between addiction and dependance. I imagine she is in a similar situation...she thinks she would feel so much better if she could just have that one drug. I will pray that all desire for drugs ia taken from her and she makes a full, complete, and lasting recovery. I know in her recovery will be yours as well.

I also love the support and general humanity found in this forum. God bless these people!

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[Brighty]

Thank you so much for your prayers and support and of course you have mine. My daughter will have ONE YEAR CLEAN tomorrow !!! She was using heroin for 3 years. She was in treatment from April of last year till the end of December. She is now home wearing an ankle monitor on house arrest mainly for her own safety since her crimes are only possession of controlled substance and possession of blank scripts. Generally they won't place a monitor on people for that but every time she had a court date she was in the hospital with a suicide attempt. The judge revoked her bond and forced her into long term treatment and put her on the monitor when she came home. She is doing great and at some point the light went on in her head and she not only began to accept treatment, she really got into recovery. She is in the local college with all A's right now, is back playing the piano and still goes to counselling twice a week and at least 4 meetings a week. We have much to be thankful for at our house. She attributes her healing to God and I know that everyone here will agree. Unlike yourself she was not challenged by either pain or illness... she was with the wrong people on the wrong path... but like yourself now, she is meeting her obstacles with grace and courage. Please keep us posted on your progress... I hope you stay... we could use the young, bright prospectives you have to offer. Love, Brighty

[cindi]

Thank you all so much for your encouragement and faith in me.  I love you all. I struggle with this nursing thing everyday.  I loved the profession but when I closed the doors on nursing in 1995 it opened doors for me that i never knew could be opened,  I was able to spend more time with my daughter and husand, have a wonderful son and I got a job as a toddler teacher in a pre-school where I absolutely love going everyday and I love and adore those babies I take care of.  I was able to see my mom more and be there for her when she needed me. To brighty, I understand what you mean when you talk about your daughter and relapse.  My mother live in total fear she would lose me to drugsshe did everything in her poser to "help me to stay clean" and at one point I know she blamed herself allthough i assured her every day of my life she is not to blame.  I really don't want to consider myself an impaired professional because I had such a difficult time in treatment believing I was an addict.  I ven made the statement I  could not be an addict, I was a nurse...I believe I would have abused drugs even if I was not a nurse, and being this disease does not discriminate I am just an addict... period.  Anyway, I will take into consideration what all of you had to say, You are all very wise, very caring people and like I said before, I value and respect your opinions.Thank you again.   Love to all of you   cindi

[Thomas02]

I think you know, like the rest of us know, that nursing just happened to be your mode of access. If not as a nurse, you would have been exposed to them as a patient, and the same dynamic would have taken over. It might have been different drugs, depending on what you were being treated for, but your addiction would have made itself felt, one way or the other. The important thing is that you understand that, and that you recognize that reovery is a never-ending struggle that takes place throughout the addict's life. Buprenorphine is inching closer and closer to becoming an addiction treatment in California, it's literally months away, and when it does, I intend to be first in line. I may fail. I may succeed. I may do both, countless times. But I'm not giving up to my disease. I know there's an answer for me just as there's an answer for you. Just don't give up. The sun sets for us junkies but it also rises again. And I intend to be one of those who make the bup work for me. If that fails, I'll consign myself to methadone without any shame. But if there is any chance I can make the bup plan work, and I believe in my heart that there is, I want that chance to make it work. As much as I admit to loving drugs, Brighty's analogy about servant and master really made me think. I'm not content to settle for being servant to a drug for the rest of my natural life. I want to be master of my own house. It took Brighty's gentle insight to make me see that. Brighty, if you're reading this. Thanks for your wisdom. I would like to meet you both someday and give you some long overdue hugs just for caring enough about me to share your insight with me on this forum. I can't tell you how much it has meant to me to have people like you and Brighty to share my struggle with. Nothing's worse than to feel alone and like no one understands or cares about what you're going through. Well, enough, venting, I feel better. Don't hesitate to reply. I will be looking for your posts.
your friend,

Pat (for tom)

[cindi]

Talk about wisdom, your posts along with JB, Brighty,annie, Maryann, Maria and yes, even spook are always keeping my mind working.  You, my friend seem to have the exact thoughts as I do but you put them into words so much better.  I do understand about the addiction and that nursing just happened to be a mode.  I had been abusing other things mainly amphetamines prior to graduating from nursing school.  I also know what a daily struggle addiction is, I have been struggling with staying clean for 10 years. Since I went into rehab.  I have read your posts regarding your tuggles and how much you like the drugs, I love the feeling to but I, like you do not want them to rule my life, You are such as wise person and I know that this disease does not discriminate, and it is not a willpower thing, and if for one reason or another the BUP does not work, there is no shame is the Methadone.  We do not have to feel ashamed of this disease, I was ashamed at one time but, I came to the realization that I did not choose this, I did not come out of the womb and announce I want to take addiction 101.  Or when i grow up I want to be a junkie, I may be wrong but this is the way my life has been planned out and it like anything else has happened for a reason, one that I won't question, just accept.Does that make sense to you?  Anyway, Thank you so much for being here, and I will gladly return the hugs you will someday give out.  Good luck, and please, keep coming back, I need you and so does everyone else here, we all need each other.   Love to you  cindi

[Gloria]

Two of my favorite quotes:
The first is in the AA "Big Book."
     "Nothing, absolutely nothing, happens in God's world by mistake."
The second coming from "Conversations with God."
     "Therefore bless every person and CONDITION and give thanks.  Thus you affirm the perfection of God's creation and show your faith in it.  For nothing happens by accident in God's world, and there is no such thing as coincidence."
Today marks ONE YEAR that your daughter has been clean!  Please tell her that I am very proud of her achievement and wish her continued success in her battle with this horrible disease.  For me, the big turning point in my personal battle with addiction occurred when I stopped being angry with God for being an addict, and started thanking Him for my addiction.  I am who I am today because of all the steps I have taken to get here.  My addiction is a huge part of that journey, and to deny that aspect, is to denounce my faith in God.  I no longer ask, "why me," but "why not me?"  Everyday, I thank God for all the blessings he has bestowed upon me--my addiction being one of them.  My love to you and your family.  Best wishes always.  Maria

[Frankinscense]

Tom:
Why do you sign Patrick for Tom? By the way the quote from the other day was taken out of context by you. You became defensive for no reason Tom! I was just in question concerning your recovery. Like you said. What you do is your business. But I am aware that you became defensive for a reason. Maybe there is something you need to look at inside yourself. Anyway best of luck Patrick for Tom.
Dan...
ps: maybe an identity crisis. Just a thought.

[Frankinscense]

By the way I have been married for twenty four years to a wonderful women. I have two kids.
Dan...

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Your post is what I needed to hear today.  I will go back to the Big Book again as you have and live another day in peace.  I think that you have given me another option, so rejoice in that, Maria. Your friend, J.B.