Aa
its about living clean not substitution
i keep seeing 1 person in particular here reccomending to others here this drug and that drug to make 'getting clean' easier?
im not mentioning names but for pitys sake will you stop telling vulnerable people who want to quit drugs to try new drugs. if you want to post here try to help people get clean, not switch addictions.
:)
im not mentioning names but for pitys sake will you stop telling vulnerable people who want to quit drugs to try new drugs. if you want to post here try to help people get clean, not switch addictions.
:)
Good luck my dear.....Good luck.....Don't let the doc say anything that makes you give up on anything......
Good luck, and don't worry, like I said, it's probably manageable. Just don't forget your whacking stick for when the doctor says something stupid!!!
Heh heh, I'm glad for you slideshow, good to hear :) It looks like everyone's perking up.
Fladdict Ah, I should have thought that there are other people in the world you might actually be talking to! :)
...well, this is ALL just theory. I could, after all, be totally wrong. According to my wife it happens often!
Oh, I think I know why I'm still feeling crappy...I'm trying to cut my dose from 5 to 2.5, and I suppose it could be causing the havoc with my system. It's never been like this before...but if that's the problem, then at least knowing helps. It will be over eventually
Fladdict Ah, I should have thought that there are other people in the world you might actually be talking to! :)
...well, this is ALL just theory. I could, after all, be totally wrong. According to my wife it happens often!
Oh, I think I know why I'm still feeling crappy...I'm trying to cut my dose from 5 to 2.5, and I suppose it could be causing the havoc with my system. It's never been like this before...but if that's the problem, then at least knowing helps. It will be over eventually
Oh, I am having a WONDERFUL DAY. I wish you all well and success in your indivitual endeavors today.....
Somebody made a good point up in the thread here. Sometimes we come here with out own hyrt and anger and we manifest it on others. I know I did that the other day, with Dee34 and I was WRONG..I let me anger about Coke make me say some really stupid things...I could apologize a hundred times and I'd still feel bad. I guess my point is everyones opinion is important...Everyone has a different opinion and each different opinion is valuable.....Readers take what you can learn from each post, churn it around in your head, let it sizzzle from one nueron to the other within the brain.......The the synapes flow.....I do have a question. Though...Do you think insanity is in in the brain matter betwen the neurons where the thoughts jump from one neuron to the other, or is it in the electriclike zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt jumping from neuron to neuron manifesting as "thought"? This sounds like a Savas question......Savas, where rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr u?
Hey my friend...Running down the street naked balancing a ball on my hdead worked for me.......LOL...That is one of the funniest responses I have read yet and I love it. I am not being a smart ***. What I mean is EXCELLENT answer.....Very good answer...I am not being sarcastic...Different things work for different people. I came off pain meds in 2001 and could not sleep for weeks,....Finally the doc relented and gave me some valium which helped me...It did not substitute for anything....30 10s and they were gone, but by that time, I had slept for 7-8 nights, perhaps saving my life......
you have not failed in making your point...but like you said NA/AA advocates wont discuss it...its their way or the highway...i would love to see whats in store say 10 or even 20 years down the road for addicts...it is an incurable disease, and this is a fact, and this is what my recovery is based on...facts....just think ahead say30 years...wouldnt it be just awesome if they could come up with a vaccine for addiction...LOL! now thats interesting...you are such a brilliant man...i simply love reading your posts...and always learn something from you, because i am always listening with an open mind...
I wasn't upset about opinions on NA... dont worry nothing you said ticked me off.. There were some specific things that upset me but its all cleared up now... don't worry hun.. XOXO
Oh, sorry...I'm not expressing a problem with NA, I think it's a fine organization. I'm expressing a worry about our country and where it's going in terms of health care, pain management, and addiction treatment.
The worry I express is that NA/AA is the strongest (and possibly only) group out there that speaks FOR clean living, and the possibility of a life of abstinence. No other group of any power is out there fighting what's going on. I was actually expressing sympathy for a problem, and wondering out loud what the solution could be. The only other strong (political) addiction group out there I've seen is A.T. Watchdog type groups, who are fairly mobilized and are political and do preach a philosophy of "Addiction is incurable and must be maintained". They're busy earning points towards "Methadone rights" and "recognize methadone treatment as a valid solution to addiction".
It's not a good message. It's a TERRIBLE message. They misquote statistics and slant studies to support their views. It wouldn't matter but they've got serious backing.
This is actually a world wide problem, by the way. Not just in the states. Scotland (why Scotland?!?!) is the only country seriously seeking other solutions to maintenance.
It's funny. I've discussed this with other NA advocates and they do get insulted, and I never quite understood why. I wondered if it was frustration at the problem itself, or perhaps I'm just expressing it poorly. Frankly, I'd like to at least get them discussing it, even if they decide it's not their fight. It may not be. It probably isn't. It wasn't what they were made for. I suppose I thought the one group that genuinely cares about addicts might want to discuss some way to handle a growing problem, to see if it's possible to do it without compromising their beliefs...we don't want our children brought up, after all, thinking that methadone maintenance is acceptable, do we?
Actually, you could help me out here, fladdict. What specifically about this is it that is so upsetting to NA advocates? Is it that they believe I'm wrong in my view of the situation? Is there a wording that attacks NA or it's philosophy? I'm serious, it would help if you'd say. I keep feeling as if I'm failing to make a point and I'm not sure if the inadequacy is in myself or the argument or the view.
The worry I express is that NA/AA is the strongest (and possibly only) group out there that speaks FOR clean living, and the possibility of a life of abstinence. No other group of any power is out there fighting what's going on. I was actually expressing sympathy for a problem, and wondering out loud what the solution could be. The only other strong (political) addiction group out there I've seen is A.T. Watchdog type groups, who are fairly mobilized and are political and do preach a philosophy of "Addiction is incurable and must be maintained". They're busy earning points towards "Methadone rights" and "recognize methadone treatment as a valid solution to addiction".
It's not a good message. It's a TERRIBLE message. They misquote statistics and slant studies to support their views. It wouldn't matter but they've got serious backing.
This is actually a world wide problem, by the way. Not just in the states. Scotland (why Scotland?!?!) is the only country seriously seeking other solutions to maintenance.
It's funny. I've discussed this with other NA advocates and they do get insulted, and I never quite understood why. I wondered if it was frustration at the problem itself, or perhaps I'm just expressing it poorly. Frankly, I'd like to at least get them discussing it, even if they decide it's not their fight. It may not be. It probably isn't. It wasn't what they were made for. I suppose I thought the one group that genuinely cares about addicts might want to discuss some way to handle a growing problem, to see if it's possible to do it without compromising their beliefs...we don't want our children brought up, after all, thinking that methadone maintenance is acceptable, do we?
Actually, you could help me out here, fladdict. What specifically about this is it that is so upsetting to NA advocates? Is it that they believe I'm wrong in my view of the situation? Is there a wording that attacks NA or it's philosophy? I'm serious, it would help if you'd say. I keep feeling as if I'm failing to make a point and I'm not sure if the inadequacy is in myself or the argument or the view.
ya know, trade the word "addiction" here for "religion" and it could be the same debate.
to each his own. whatever works. if it doesn't - try another way. but keep trying til something does.
and listen to the folks who've been clean awhile. you don't have to necessarily DO it there way, but in my lil lil humble opinion, it's definitely worth a listen. i mean, ya don't ask a fat person how to lose weight... nor can you call a Priest a good man just because he believes in Christ (if you're a Christian), but on the side he's molesting kids (NOT all preists - i'm not saying that before anyone freaks out...)
i've heard people discount AA because they've met a few bad eggs... come on, there's bad eggs everywhere! have ya ever read the Big Book? it's beautiful and makes a sh**load of sense! again.. not my way, but I can see why it works for many... actually, it IS my way in alot of ways, just not necessarily for addressing addiction. for ME. but I see why it does work for alot of folks...
aaaaaaanyway - enough about my hair. i'm jumpin' off my soapbax now... :-P
to each his own. whatever works. if it doesn't - try another way. but keep trying til something does.
and listen to the folks who've been clean awhile. you don't have to necessarily DO it there way, but in my lil lil humble opinion, it's definitely worth a listen. i mean, ya don't ask a fat person how to lose weight... nor can you call a Priest a good man just because he believes in Christ (if you're a Christian), but on the side he's molesting kids (NOT all preists - i'm not saying that before anyone freaks out...)
i've heard people discount AA because they've met a few bad eggs... come on, there's bad eggs everywhere! have ya ever read the Big Book? it's beautiful and makes a sh**load of sense! again.. not my way, but I can see why it works for many... actually, it IS my way in alot of ways, just not necessarily for addressing addiction. for ME. but I see why it does work for alot of folks...
aaaaaaanyway - enough about my hair. i'm jumpin' off my soapbax now... :-P
dont sweat it hun. you do a LOT of good here. dont let one person pi s s you off.
Almost this entire post ticks me off... some people cannot tolerate others opinions or experiences. Or waste their breaths trying to convince others that they are doing the right things, when in actuality they are trying to convince themselves..
I love what you said about N/A and not getting involved in politics. You are a smart man. I am not 100 percent fanatical about meetings, but i do recommend them and they have helped me out when I've needed support and to be around other addicts, but still many things don't always sit well with me. I don't think I'll ever be one of those people who are so gung-ho about NA simply cause it contradicts itself on so many levels, but i hope that one day it works all it's kinks out so it can be even more effective, because it is a wonderful option for so many people and has helped so many people.....but still. I love what you said..
you mean, the part about the Pope?
..some folks can't take anything, and i get that. i guess we should consider ourselves lucky that we can, and put it down...
..some folks can't take anything, and i get that. i guess we should consider ourselves lucky that we can, and put it down...
Oh, I didn't forget. Suboxone is another example of a medication that's being gradually regulated towards the "lifelong maintenance" group, like methadone. It suffered a brief period about 5 years ago where it's usage was almost blocked (When it was considered a short term treatment).
But once they 're tailored' it, and turned it into a 'long term detox (which to doctors equals life long maintenance), it became accepted by the medical community. The idea seems to be that suboxone is the "ultimate reward for good lifer's".
In other words, if you can behave, and taper down on methadone, thus showing restraint, then they'll give you the opportunity to go on the 'special lifer med', which you only have to pick up once a month, earning you more freedom.
After all, how many suboxone users who've been on it for many months probably decide to stay on it, considering how 'unobtrusive' it is towards their lives? Rather than suffering through withdrawals? I'd be curious to know, but I'd be willing to bet it's a growing statistic.
I think they're hoping it will work out well. Then they can take some of the negative attention and press away from the methadone clinics. While they love the money they get off of methadone patients, insurance companies aren't very happy with it. Suboxone would be a happy medium for both insurance, medical community, and government. It would cost less insurance wise, still give government control of addicts, and generate less negative attention socially.
However, because of all this, it has an insidious end result. Public opposition to "lifer's" on addiction treatment would diminish, causing us to become a nation of government controlled addicts that much more quickly.
So don't give up and give in, luv! Keep up the good work! :)
But once they 're tailored' it, and turned it into a 'long term detox (which to doctors equals life long maintenance), it became accepted by the medical community. The idea seems to be that suboxone is the "ultimate reward for good lifer's".
In other words, if you can behave, and taper down on methadone, thus showing restraint, then they'll give you the opportunity to go on the 'special lifer med', which you only have to pick up once a month, earning you more freedom.
After all, how many suboxone users who've been on it for many months probably decide to stay on it, considering how 'unobtrusive' it is towards their lives? Rather than suffering through withdrawals? I'd be curious to know, but I'd be willing to bet it's a growing statistic.
I think they're hoping it will work out well. Then they can take some of the negative attention and press away from the methadone clinics. While they love the money they get off of methadone patients, insurance companies aren't very happy with it. Suboxone would be a happy medium for both insurance, medical community, and government. It would cost less insurance wise, still give government control of addicts, and generate less negative attention socially.
However, because of all this, it has an insidious end result. Public opposition to "lifer's" on addiction treatment would diminish, causing us to become a nation of government controlled addicts that much more quickly.
So don't give up and give in, luv! Keep up the good work! :)
Huh...well, I see what a bit of a fever can do. Okay, I Think I see where I was going with this... :)
I think...what I was getting at was AA/NA are beginning to suffer a "crisis of belief". They're between two premises, (dilemma), likened to being caught between the horns of a charging bull.
The first horn is their refusal to allow any political controversy to infect the group. The second horn is the sudden shift or change in addiction philosophy in the medical community (government supported).
NA/AA doesn't get involved in politics, and this has always been a fine philosophy, and worked well for them. But with the change in views on addiction, that it's an incurable disease, to be government medicated and regulated, they've literally had the rug pulled out from under them. I don't know of a statistic, but I've tried to work this statistic out, (keep in mind it's VERY roughly gotten) and if you take the number of addicts total today, and the number enrolling 'successfully' (a term I use loosely here) in NA, compared to ten years ago, there's a HUGE disparity. I got to roughly a 75% difference.
In other words, NA is reaching (roughly) 75% less addicts successfully with there message today than ten years ago (This DOESN'T reflect their internal success rate, by the way. It IS very high. This reflects people hearing NA's message and BELIEVING ADDICTION ISN'T 'MANAGABLE').
Which is terrible. And I think it's caused by this dilemma. NA can't fight this shift in belief in the medical community because of it's policy on "no politics". But this very policy is causing them to lose the ability to have their message recieved.
But if they get involved in the politics of the situation, they weaken the core strength of their group, fighting addiction, which is what NA is about. It pollutes their message and work, thus weakening them as an effective group to fight this situation.
Hence, the dilemma. If they don't get involved, their message gets buried by the "New addiction belief of addicts need to be maintained".
If they DO get involved, they weaken NA as a group through breaking the covenant of "no political involvement", which compromises their message and thus their ability to fight.
Either way, the same result. And I think this is what's causing a great deal of hostility, and a split, in the Addiction community. The inability to deal with this problem.
I think...what I was getting at was AA/NA are beginning to suffer a "crisis of belief". They're between two premises, (dilemma), likened to being caught between the horns of a charging bull.
The first horn is their refusal to allow any political controversy to infect the group. The second horn is the sudden shift or change in addiction philosophy in the medical community (government supported).
NA/AA doesn't get involved in politics, and this has always been a fine philosophy, and worked well for them. But with the change in views on addiction, that it's an incurable disease, to be government medicated and regulated, they've literally had the rug pulled out from under them. I don't know of a statistic, but I've tried to work this statistic out, (keep in mind it's VERY roughly gotten) and if you take the number of addicts total today, and the number enrolling 'successfully' (a term I use loosely here) in NA, compared to ten years ago, there's a HUGE disparity. I got to roughly a 75% difference.
In other words, NA is reaching (roughly) 75% less addicts successfully with there message today than ten years ago (This DOESN'T reflect their internal success rate, by the way. It IS very high. This reflects people hearing NA's message and BELIEVING ADDICTION ISN'T 'MANAGABLE').
Which is terrible. And I think it's caused by this dilemma. NA can't fight this shift in belief in the medical community because of it's policy on "no politics". But this very policy is causing them to lose the ability to have their message recieved.
But if they get involved in the politics of the situation, they weaken the core strength of their group, fighting addiction, which is what NA is about. It pollutes their message and work, thus weakening them as an effective group to fight this situation.
Hence, the dilemma. If they don't get involved, their message gets buried by the "New addiction belief of addicts need to be maintained".
If they DO get involved, they weaken NA as a group through breaking the covenant of "no political involvement", which compromises their message and thus their ability to fight.
Either way, the same result. And I think this is what's causing a great deal of hostility, and a split, in the Addiction community. The inability to deal with this problem.
I agree with Marcatj...having been through the w'd's on several occasions, I utilized several drugs that were not DOC.....things like clonidine, and especially benzos, for maybe up to 2 weeks and thats it....made a world of difference! You can safely do valium, ativan, or xanax..as needed for anxiety and sleep, for up to 2 weeks without ill effects. Just monitor your usage.....no alcohol, and no excessive use.....it'll work! Sleep and relaxation....but use the other stuff too....water...vitamins....food..
Have an Answer?
You are reading content posted in the Addiction: Substance Abuse Community
Is treating glaucoma with marijuana all hype, or can hemp actually help?
If you think marijuana has no ill effects on your health, this article from Missouri Medicine may make you think again.
Julia Aharonov, DO, reveals the quickest way to beat drug withdrawal.
Tricks to help you quit for good.
A list of national and international resources and hotlines to help connect you to needed health and medical services.
Herpes sores blister, then burst, scab and heal.
