new here, anyone here on methadone maintaince?

[drugzalots]

hi all, is anyone here on methadone for getting off drugs?  i had tried everything to get off pills only to fail and fail again.  then i went to methadone and have been on it for almost 2 years.  i couldn't see my life any other way at this point and time.  i do have chronic pain issues, but the methadone does nothing for my pain.  some people do use methadone for chronic pain.  maybe it's all those years of abusing pain pills, i don't know.  i really need to get to a dr. for my pain issues.  funny how when i was getting my pain pills from drs. i couldn't wait to get to the dr. but now...i could care less about going.  even tho i'm in pain and all i'm not sapose to take any narcs coz of the meth, so why go.  but my back has gotten so bad that i can't walk without a walker, and i hate it.  i have no insurance so i feel bad taking any money out for me.  i already pay $168. a month for my meth.  thats a far cry from the $100. a day habit i had before.  but still, i guess i have alot of guilt there with the money thing.  i put my family threw hell, and then some.  but they stuck by my side, and they are behind me 100%, and they are proud of me.  i haven't cheated on this meth.  but, sometimes i want to.  some times i'll just break down and cry like a baby.  weird!  well, i'm going on and on here, just want to know if anyone out there can relate?  thanks!  p.s. sorry about spelling mistakes, but i can't spell for sh**!!

[sharonver]

Welcome to the forum...

There are a few of us on MMT and a few that have detoxed from it. I have been on for 15 years and I am now detoxing from it.
Started the detox about 1 year ago I'm doing it very slowly, I was on 65mg now down to 4mg. I also have chronic pain (arthritis) the methadone did help me while I was on a higher dose. Of course now that I am down so low it isn't helping it anymore.  So when I am through with this detox I will have to look for another type of med to help with the arthritis issue.  Looking forward to talking to you...

Sharon

[longtimegone]

I have been on methadone maint. for many years myself so I can relate to that part. What I can't really relate to is the chronic pain, I can tell ya that even if ya try to get "relief" from something else it ain't gonna be easy. Unless you are on some really low maint. dose of methadone which I doubt if you have been on the program for two years, your tolerance to opiates is through the roof. I've been drinking between 110 - 120mg. of meth a day for at least ten years and whenever I had surgery it was a big problem controling pain and even the anestesia was a ***** to get right, ( i'm sure i spelled that wrong). I have relapsed lots of times while on meth and for the most part it is all for nothing. I couldn't tell the difference after I shot dope or ate oxy's... because of my tolerance. The bad part is I really don't know what to tell ya about how to get relief from your pain if you are on a high dose of meth. There are a few people on my clinic that have real pain issues also but they all go to a pain managment clinic besides going to the meth clinic. I'm sure others on here will have some good advise for ya though!! I just wanted to let ya know there are other people on methadone maint. If I can help ya with any questions or if ya just wanna bullshit I'd be glad to but there are plenty of people on here that will have better advise. Good luck......Jim

[Thomas03]

Post your question to Mr. Michael. He comes around most days. He can tell you anything you want to know about MMT and chronic pain.

Thomas

[Linco]

Hi everyone...I have been watching these boards for several months and the posts have helped me enormously.  I am an older woman who has fought the opiate battle for many years.  My problem now is that I am stuck at about 4 1/2 hydros (7.5) per day.  The worst for me is the nights and mornings when I feel as if my insides want to come out.  Also I have very disturbing dreams.  For the first time, I'm considering contacting a methadone clinic in my area.  My questions are (1) does my daily usage warrant methadone maintenance? and (2) could my pain management Dr. (arthritis) prescribe meth. for pain?  Also, I could get Darvocet which I understand is related to meth.  Any suggestions would be really appreciated.  My life now is filled with depression and guilt.  Thanks for any input.
Linda

[Thomas03]

Hi, linco, welcome to the forum. I'm sorry you're feeling so poorly. Arthritus is an awful condition.

As far as I know, your doctor could prescribe methadone for pain. But my question is, are you saying that you believe your depression and disturbing dreams are caused by the Vicodin, from inadequate pain management, or both? There are time-release pain drugs such as MS-Contin (morphine, OxyContin (oxycodone) and Duragesic (fentenyl patch) that would certainly provide more consistent relief than Vicodin. If the Vicodin itself is causing your depression, I think switching to another narcotic pain killer would not solve the problem.

You should know that a methdone clinic will require you to show up every single day for one dose of methadone. According to Mr Michael, methadone controls pain for about 8 hrs or so, leaving you hurting all night until it's time to go to the clinic again. Also with your arthritus, it might be a challenge to attend the clinic every single day. Once dependent on methadone, you would be facing an extremely unpleasant detox/withdrawal if you should be taken off of the drug.

Have you talked to your doctor about this? Ask him about MS-Contin, OxyContin and the Duragesic patch before you ask for methadone. That's my opinion, anyway.

Now that you're here, stay in touch!

Thomas

[Linco]

Thanks Thomas for your insight.  I have another appt. on the 20th and will talk to my Dr.  In answer to your other questions, I have to think about it but I think my discomfort is the Vicodin wearing off in the middle  of the night (withdrawal) rather than the pain.  It's just that my children don't want me taking any kind of opiate which causes me plenty of guilt.  When they're visiting I have to hide everything.  Oh well, enough whining....
It's nice to hear from caring and understanding people like yourself.     Linda

[blondie129]

Sorry to break the thread here, me and my husband have been reading here for over a year now and it is time for us to post but I am not sure how to start a new post, me and my hubby both are addicted to pain meds, hubby worse than me, I am at this time down to 1 7.5 vicodin per day, I am out so tomorrow will be the first day for me without any, I don't see to much of a problem there, as today before I took one I didn't really feel bad, not sure why I even took it, guess just the habit. Now for my hubby, for about 5 years he has taken lortab, vicodin, and oxycontin, he was up to the about 35-10mg hydro per day, doing whatever he could, and I do mean whatever he could to get them, Wednesday he finealy went to the hosp Er for help, to make a very long story short after about 9 hours in the er, about 6 different people telling us that they did not do drug detox and a few telling us that they did, the er dr could not admit him, and had to find a dr that would. He called about 4 different drs. trying to find one that would, finally found 1 dr in our town that would do the detox, they said that was his speciality, he had been doing it for 20 years, they admitted him he was not in detox yet as he took 4 pills in the er before they took him to a room. After they got him settled in a room they started with atavan shots every 2 hours, we asked for something different than atavan because 3 years ago our 14 yr old daughter died from lymphoma, they had given her atavan, and she totally lost her mind on it, but they talked him into trying, about 7 hours later when the detox really set in they called the dr and had the atavan changed to iv atavan along with 40mg valume(not spelled right) every 2 hours, by the next AM things were really bad so the dr then changed again adding phenebarbitol to the plan every 2 hours on that, well needless to say that by that time hubby was totally out of it and left the hosp against medical advice this was Thurs evening, I did not want to bring him home, for fear that he would go looking for more pills even though at that time, he was totally confused and did not know what he was doing, so I took him to his mothers 2 hours away he spent the night with horrible muscle spams, crawling skin and the next AM did not remember anything after the first shot of atavan, wanting desperatly to go back to the hosp, I called the addiction specialist (yea right, I would not let him treat my dog now) and he would not take him back. We called 3 other drs. including one that was giving him the pills regulary for 4 years none would touch him. Then took him to my dr that was giving me 60 20 mg oxycontin per month for the past 4 years, and pleaded for him to put him in the hosp. and he did, with 10 mg valume 4 times per day thru the night the detox got bad again so they added a drug, 10 mg oxycondone IR every 4 hours ( great 48 hours with nothing and they give him more, he took some the rest he did not take and put in my purse, well today when the dr came to see him told him that he was nuts (anybody taking that many pain pill would have to be was what the dr said) pissed off hubby again and again left the hosp ama. We came home and now finally after 4 days of no sleep he is asleep now, his emotions are up and down from very high to very very low. I do not know at this point what to do to help him, I am very on edge after 4 days with no sleep also, I have a script for 60 .5mg klonpin, I think that the worst part is of the physical detox is over the muscle spasms are almost gone, still a few, the nurse that was taking care of him said he was the worst he had ever seen, the crawly skin has subsided somewhat, but the up and down emotion, and no sleep, what can I do to help him we have to get thru this, he keeps saying that he wants to be done but is not strong enough to do it that he knows he will be right back on them. Sorry to break the thread and that this is so long but I need help ,please!!!

         Thank you

[oxic]

Hey, Sorry to read you guys are going thru such a ******* nightmare!!!
I'm sure if you've been reading here for a year, you've seen Thomas' detox recipe, which includes a benzo(preferably Valium or Klonipin) for the first several days(which he's in the midst of).....so i would get the Klonipin filled.

Is there any chance you can get CLONIDINE, a blood pressure medication, and coincidentally withdrawal masking agent(so to speak). They use it routinely at our detox facility.  Of course making sure your husbands' BP doesn't bottom out!!!, with its use.


I'll copy and paste the Recipe anyways, as there are some good pointers throughout;

Thomas Detox Recipe

PLEASE NOTE: I am not a doctor, simply a long-time Rx opiate junkie who has had many opportunities to develop a way to detox. This is a recipe for at-home self-detox from opiates based on my experience as well as that of many other addicts. It is not intended as professional medical advice. It is always wise to make sure none of the recipe ingredients or procedures conflict with medications you may be taking. Likewise, if you have any medical condition, disease, allergy or any other health issue, consult your doctor before using the recipe. Thanks, Thomas

This recipe is designed for cold turkey opiate detox. It assumes that you can get about 5 to 7 days away from your job or household responsibilities during which you can sleep, veg and act as miserable as you feel. Opiate WD mimics the symptoms of the common flu, so, if you need a smokescreen, hide behind a bad case of the flu.

If you can't take time off to detox, I recommend you follow a taper regimen using your drug of choice or suitable alternate -- the slower the taper, the better.

For the Recipe, You'll need:

1. Valium (or another benzodiazepine such as Klonopin, Librium, Ativan or Xanax). Of these, Valium and Klonopin are best suited for tapering since they come in tablet form. Librium is also an excellent detox benzo, but comes in capsules, making it hard to taper the dose. Ativan or Xanax should only be used if you can't get one of the others.

2. Imodium (over the counter, any drug or grocery store).

3. L-Tyrosine (500 mg caps) from the health food store.

4. Strong wide-spectrum mineral supplement with at least 100% RDA of Zinc, Phosphorus, Copper and Magnesium.

5. Vitamin B6 caps.

6. Access to hot baths or a Jacuzzi (or hot showers if that's all that's available).

How to use the recipe:

Begin your detox with regular doses of Valium (or alternate benzo). Start with a dose high enough to produce sleep. Before you use any benzo, make sure you're aware of how often it can be safely taken. Different benzos have different dosing schedules. Taper your Valium dosage down after each day. The goal is to get through day 4, after which the worst WD symptoms will subside. You shouldn't need the Valium after day 4 or 5.

During detox, hit the hot bath or Jacuzzi as often as you need to for muscle aches. Don't underestimate the effectiveness of hot soaks. Spend the entire time, if necessary, in a hot bath. This simple method will alleviate what is for many the worst opiate WD symptom.

Use the Imodium aggressively to stop the runs. Take as much as you need, as often as you need it. Don't take it, however, if you don't need it.

At the end of the fourth day, you should be waking up from the Valium and experiencing the beginnings of the opiate WD malaise. Upon rising (empty stomach), take the L-Tyrosine. Try 2000 mgs, and scale up or down, depending on how you feel. You can take up to 4,000 mgs. Take the L-Tyrosine with B6 to help absorption. Wait about one hour before eating breakfast. The L-Tyrosine will give you a surge of physical and mental energy that will help counteract the malaise. You may continue to take it each morning for as long as it helps. If you find it gives you the "coffee jitters," consider lowering the dosage or discontinuing it altogether. Occasionally, L-Tyrosine can cause the runs. Unlike the runs from opiate WD, however, this effect of L-Tyrosine is mild and normally does not return after the first hour. Lowering the dosage may help.

With breakfast, take the mineral supplement.

As soon as you can force yourself to, get some mild exercise such as walking, cycling, swimming, etc. This will be hard at first, but will make you feel considerably better.

PLEASE NOTE: If you have any medical complications, first check with your doctor before detoxing to verify that this regimen is safe for you.


I wish there was more i could do for you and your husband...... coming off that doseage has to be a mother ******; just keep him sedated(But not unconscious), and in a hot bath, and perhaps some deep muscle massages.

Hang in there guys!!
(and keep us updated)

percs

[blondie129]

Hi,

  I am the hubby and just read my wifes post, you are right it is a mother ****** and then some!!!  Thank you for replying!

                  TC

[oxic]

Hey Friend.....so is there any chance of getting a hold of some Clonidine??

You know, many people before you have successfully kicked habits of your calibre AND BIGGER; so you can do it too(like in the order of 800+ mgs of oxycontin with a substantial benzo appetite to top it off).

Tell us more.... did you cold turkey?  When was your last hydro/ oxy. ?

Make sure you don't get dehydrated either.

percs

ps....i came off a 20+/day perc habit, of many years; and although i felt like i was going to die, it passed and have been off since Aug. 19th/02

[blondie129]

Cold turkey my friend....well my last dose was Wed. at about 9:30 as they were getting ready to take me to my room after the 9 hour er wait...but after I left the hosp out of my mind Thurs against medical advice (not knowing what the **** I was doing), I called the original Dr to see if he would readmit me on Friday but he was done with me and I found a different Dr to admit me about 6pm on Friday nite (still had not taken any), about 11pm friday nite the new dr decieded that he wanted me to come off slowly taking 2-5mg oxy IR every 4 hours, so since last nite at 11pm I have had about 50mg in the hospital before the dr came in and told me I was nuts and pissed me off and left ama again, as for the clindine I still have the patch on from today, I am not sure how long they last but I doubt that I will be able to get more. How long was it for you before the real bad part is over, the muscle spams have subsided, and the crawling skin also, the diarrea is pretty much gone, no stomach pain, but man, I just do not feel right at all.....just ****** up feeling!! Although it does seem to help to smoke a little pot.

         Keep in touch and good luck on your journey
                                    TC

[oxic]

Sorry, didn't realize you had a catapres (clonidine patch) on....Anyways, you are definately thru the nastiest physical w/d's, and now as you said "Just don't feel right".  I remember that feeling VERY well. ******* no-mans land; where your body/brain is wondering why hasn't the next dose of synthetic pain killers been sent yet, and since that has been the pattern for so long, your body just doesn't want to start "firing" again, by producing its' own dopamine/natural pain killers.

This is where the L-Tyrosine/ B-6 comes into play.  Pick it up(or have your wife get it from the health food store), believe me, i was skeptical about anything natural working. IT DOES.
If you look at L-Tyrosine(an amino acid), it is very closely related to dopamines'molecular structure, and stimulates adrenaline production.  It helped me(as well as many others---including my mother in law who recently detoxed from coke, vikes, xanax and booze) crawl out of the hole.
I would say i started to feel human again(BELIEVE ME, I WONDERED IF I WOULD EVER FEEL NORMAL AGAIN) around 7-10 days; still was lethargic and couldn't get more than 2-3 hours of sleep/night, but at least out of that no-mans land.  By three weeks, things dramatically improved.
If there is anything I/we can do for you(and your wife), please ask.

percs

[mrmichael67]

Please, email me at ***@****.  It would be a lot easier to address different things.  I only come here every now and then.

[pepsi4]

I hate to interrupt this thread, but I wasn't allowed to post a new one.  In case anyone is interested, I found a site where you can download a narcotic converter (you can use it for free for 14 days).  It's at  http://www.globalrph.com/narcotic_converter.htm  It may be helpful to those trying to taper (as I have with some success).  I have NOT had a chance to really check out the program, so I do NOT know if it is accurate.  In any case, I just decided to go cold turkey -- been over 24 hours since I've had anything.  Just got back from a long walk and feel fine physically.  I fear this may be the calm before the storm, but I'm going to give it a shot!  Peace to all....

[Thomas03]

let me know when you find a site where you can download real opiates! Enough of these charts. Let's have the real thing!

Thomas

[Jerri2]

Thomas your a riot!!Wouldnt that be something though just post what ya want and out it pops!!!          Jerri

[mrmichael67]

It works fine.  I have had it as a favorite for a long time and it still works.  The one I use is right on the web page.  It is http://www.globalrph.com/narcoticonv.htm.  No downloading.

[mrmichael67]

It is really handy when working with patches.  I showed it to my pain doc at the time and he loves it.

[Benz Doctor]

Hi everyone,
I haven't seen the "Thomas receipe" advised for methadone before only other opiates. Does it work as well for methadone?  What sort of meth dosage should you be down to before you start? Also some people recommend switching from oxys to lortab before tapering because of the long lasting nature of the oxys. Is there something you can switch from the meth to?  
Thanks in advance, BD

[mrmichael67]

The only real thing to switch to from methadone is buprenorphine.  You should have your dose of methadone lowered to AT LEAST 30mg.  I have heard 60mg, but I believe that to be playing with fire.  I would go down as low as I could before switching over....under 30mg.  I am currently on methadone maintenance for pain management and wd management.

[msunderstood]

Hey all I am new here, I ve been looking for a place to talk with others about addiction, detox, opiates, methadone, etc.  
I used to take about 40-50 10mg hydros a day, tried rehab, failed, the only thing rehab was good for was the detox.  you can be detoxed and not suffer.  If anyone tries cold turkey, Ive done it several times, and i wud rather have another baby!! (not really!)  I went into a methadone treatment prgm to stop craving opiates.l  It works, alot of us can stay on methadone for years and years, its a synthetic opiate, and i know many people who are given methadone for chronic pain, it did stop the pain.  The problem with it for me, is I wasnt feeling well, I did not like how I felt on it, I got up to about 65mgs.  I gained 30 lbs. I was miserable.  The dr at the clinic told me if I went on a slow detox i wudnt feel bad.  Well for months i went down 2.5mgs a week.  did fine until i got to 25mgs.  The sweats kick in. The muscle spasms come and go.  I am definitely not experiencing any severe withdrawals, but I have increased my detox to 5mg a week bec i THINK ALL IT IS DOING IS PROLONGING THE AGONY!! I am cranky, I dont sleep very well, I dont want to leave my house, but I keep at it!!  I finally realized I do not want to be a slave to drugs. I am now down to15 mgs, I wud love to find out what will happen to me when I get to zero.  I have been doing this with nothing but motrin.  Does anyone think I can make it the rest of the way without the abv mentioned meds?  Since I reducced off slowly will the withdrawal symptoms stay as they are when I get to zero or wiil they get worse.  I posted this here, so those going thru oxy detox understand that methadone is just as addicting. It is great to use for those who could not manage living a productive life with the pain meds they were taking.You are in a controlled situation.  You must find out all the info and details of any med you start taking, dont make the same mistake I did, by trusting my shrink of 4 yrs, obviously I was trusting the wrong dr.  Find out the answers to all yr concerns and questions b4 u do any of these things. This is not factual but just my personal account of what I think, feel and have been thru,  Best to all.Msunderstood

[ineedhelp2]

hey! i use methodone when i have nothing else or when i think i am ready to fight the addiction of my pain pill problem.i really like the durg but i find my self being more addicted th\o that.i have heard that it is actually a harder addiction to fight than pain pills.also you can have bone deteriation from methadone.i have found this forum my looking for a way to get more pain medicene without a script and god is with me because he led me to you guys.i may not have answered your question , but i know that i do like the methodone.i am currently buying from the streets at 20-25 $$$ a pill i am willing to do what ever it takes to make me happy and feeling good.i want so bad to be back to my normal self full time mom wife and christian i was excersising every day also .now all i worry about is how many pills i have left and when i can take my next one .it is a constant battle for me.it is ruining my marriage and my life.i saw and read about the thomas  recipie?? is that the name? i am willing to try any thing to fight this devil and feel better whike going through withdrawls.any one reading this please email me some info or respond to my recent post under "ineedhelp2"
my email is ***@**** name is laura.its good toi now that i am not alone.may god be with us allin our own war!!!! love peace & happiness to you all. laura...:( i need help too:(

[wantoffmeth]

Hi everyone.  I am also on MMT and am on a very high dosage.  I have only come down 15mg and have a LONG way to go. What I am going to try to do is at least 10mg a week until I begin to feel the least bit uncomfortable, and then hang on that does for awhile, and so forth.  I also had the question regarding Thomas's recipe for detoxing.  Because, I've read from many people that even at 2mg, they plan to sta on that for a couple of weeks and then it's home detox time.  I wonder at this point how long it will take to feel physically somewhat comfortable, and if this recipe used for detoxing from opiates would work with methadone detox.  That's the part I am fearing the most, as I am sure everyone is that plans to come off this worst of all detoxing drugs.  Nobody at the clinic told me this, or anything else that would otherwise sway me to stay the hell away from them, which I should have.  (should have, would have, blah blah).  Seems that has been the language for my life.  I've been on Meth for almost 1 year, so I want to try to get off this **** before much more time goes by.  As I mentioned in another thread, if I had the money, I'd detox under anesthesia,unless someone had some major accurate advice after researching, swaying me otherwise, since I did about a million hours of research (ofcourse an exaggeration).  Any information regarding my comment would be greatly appreciated.  It's just nice to know when you feel you're all alone with this **** running through your head, that you're NOT.  Thanks everyone.


Kat

[sharonver]

Hi all...

I am detoxing from meth- was on for more than 15 years, I am down to 4 millagrams! (IMO) tapering or slow detoxing is not prolonging the agony, because if you do it slowly it won't be as bad as you think.  Better than C.T. for me!! Once I got down to 30 mg. I started decreasing 1 millagram every other week I was fine until I got to 6 millagrams then it started to get uncomfortable, but when you hit a wall like that you can either go up 1 or 2mg. or like I did stay at that dose until you adjust. It took me a few weeks to adjust to it then I was ok.  The next millagram decrease -5mg was ok. Last week I went to 4mg. - uncomfortatable again, will wait another week or 2 then it will be down to 3!!  The detox only goes to 2mg. (liquid)If anyone has any ques. or wants anymore info email me.

Good Luck,
Sharon