Darvon or methadone

[Frankinscense]

Dr. S.A.:
I have read where some doctors are using darvon to maintain or treat opiate addicition. I have heard some individuals compare propoxyphene to methadone. I do not think that you can compare the two as a treatment modality. Am I correct in saying that propoxyphene is much more toxic than methadone, and is a poor choice for detoxing addicts simply because of the toxicity of the drug? Cross tolerance that occurs,and that a dose of darvon that could stop cravings and withdrawals of some addicts could actually kill the person due to the toxicity of the drug(propoxyphene)!? I am confused. Can you help me answer this question?
Thank You Dr. Steve
Frank N. Sence

[DILLY1223]

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I came here to get some advice on if darvon was dangerous or not at first taking it and all I saw was a bunch of argueing so if this is what it does I want no part I'll put upn with the pain and sickness so you guys definately stopped me from making a mistake with all of your drama. THANKS!!!!!!!

[toxictome]

YOU guys are making me laugh!!!  Thanks!! :D

[MaryChristine1]

sorry dear, but couldnt help myself. i bet that cat is STILL on that methadone mess lol  i just couldnt keep my mouth shut on that one bud

[flmagi]

Dear Mary christine,
*******, your answering a post that is 8 years old.  DUH

[MaryChristine1]

y'all were stupid to get on methadone in the first place. i kicked a 100 dollar a day dope habit cold turkey. the meth clinic is just a pin for the gov to make money off of junkies. and by the way...methadone is a narcotic, and if u go to that place on a daily basis, meanwhile increasing ur dosage once a month, ur STILL using.  dumbasses. at least if ur gonna get high do it right. quit foolin urself.  so congratulations...ull have a 200 mg daily dosage of methadone on a daily in about 30 years when u could kick cold turkey or  take some ******* valium and be done in three days.  

hold'er

[Gina]

I did finally tell the nurse and after filling out another form they upped me to 70mgs. Hopefully, this will be it. I know you don't get high. I have had to try and explain how I just feel normal. I remember feeling great in the beginning. I guess that was a liitle bit of a high? I know it will be a long way down. On the positive front I found out my insurance will pay for 70% after a 300.00 deductible. It cost me 250.00 initial intake and 70.00 per week. So now I will only pay 21.00 a week. I hope your treatment stays as good as it is now. Keep in touch. Will note your addy.

[Patrice]

Gina

Sorry I wrote my addy down wrong.  It was very late.  here is the real one

***@****

Take Care

Patrice

[Patrice]

Hi Gina


If you still crave the drug you should talk to your counselor.  I want to help, but I am not a doctor and dont want to give you bad advise, so please talk to the doctor or your counselor over at the clinic and see what they suggest .  Please keep me informed on your progress, I care about you girl..  I am doing great on my dose but believe me if I felt like using, I would check with the doctor and up my dose!!!!!!  Talk to you soon

Take Care

Patrice

PS why dont you E mail me?  I dont always get to this site everday and it will be easier to talk via E mail  My addy id ***@****

[Frank to Tara]

Hi Tara,

Boy, blunt you are but right on target. How simple and how long I have been avoiding just that. I don't know what to say. I am slowly cutting down but, I don't think I am doing a very good job. How to say......I've got a lot of responsibilty right now ( as does everyone), presidendt of an angency of 200 people and presenting a national conference, a 15 yr. old son , an 11 year old daughter, a marraige that would ge so much bette without the drugs.

I am just waitin on the than antibuse, onced it gets here I've no excuse but to taper down. The NA pen pal was a bust, really bad. One of their folks said it would be ok if I went to a meeging in a gimmie cap and sunglasses and, hell, I  don't know, maybe it would. But I feel like this is the place for me right not. Brighty's post about the ibogain was very enlightening until I realized that, like so many logical solutions to addiciton, it is not available.

Anyway, I appreciate your concern and Brighty's and I really value this board, this theread. Sad as it seems, it is all I've got right now. But that's ok, right? I feel at home. Maybe we can start something here. Anyway...

Have a good night, thanks again, glad you paced yourself ont he wd"s - way to go! and stay in touch. F.

[Tara to Frank]

Hi Frank,

I haven't been around much this week, but I took your advice about not making changes on Mondays and boy were you right!  I had the worst day ever and if I wouldn't have taken that 1/2 pill I think I would have totally blown things out of proportion, in my head at least.

Anyway, how are things going with you? Have you thought any more about the steps you would like to take to recovery?  I read your story above, very upsetting, not to make light of addiction but I would say no wonder you resorted to anything that would just numb the pain.  I can't even imagine trying to deal with so many serious issues in such a short period of time.  I should be slapping myself for coming so close to taking a bunch of pills just because I had a bad day at work.

You probably have many more issues to work out than just your addictions.  I can't imagine being able to get through any of that alone.  Maybe part of your addiction is because you fear that when you do stop, you will then be confronted with the exact issues that drugs/alchohol put away for you.  Hope that's not too personal.

I hope to hear from you soon Frank, and I hope you are doing well!

Take care,

Tara

[Gina]

I can't understand why I had such cravings the other day. When I first started I felt great too. Then after 50mgs, I needed a bit more so they put me up to 55mgs. It seems to work for a week or so and then it seems like I want or need something more. I went to a few meetings and I know that helps but I feel like I need more. I am at 65mgs for the past 6 days. They gave me a urine and I had taken 3 darvocet 3 days before. I know how stupid that was but.. I hate to go any higher but don't know what else to do. Please let me know if you continue to do well at that dose or if you feel the need to go higher after a few weeks. Thanks!

[Brighty to Frank]

Glad you are staying with us. As far as a thread here on ibogaine, well.... don't count on it being welcome on this board mainly because this is a medical help forum. I am sure our comments and opinions are ok but if we start disseminating information on where to go for treatments and recommending it to others I think we will be deleted.  You can try and see what happens. I am afraid that I may be kicked off the board if I say too much on this topic. Ibogaine is a schedule 1 substance in the US and also we would be promoting "alternative" treatments rather than mainstream medical stuff. My observation is that anything alternative is brushed off by the doctors on these boards. There is an ibogaine list you can subscribe to and that's what I do to discuss it. I don't have addiction but I have issues and am considering having a treatment...someday !! :-))Love, Brighty

[Patrice]

Hi Gina

Do you remeber what Dan has said about drug maintence programs.  Dont quote me, because he wrote it to me a lonf time ago.  If you are on Any kind of detox and you are still craving the drugs, it means you are not being dosed high enough, correct me if I am wrong ok Dan?  All I know is I am on 50mg of methadone a day on the MMT, and I do not crave heroin at all.  Sure I think about it, but the OCBhas left me.  I am very comfprtable where I am at,please Gina if you want to use, tell your counselor,like yesterday!!!!  Our secrets will kill us, be honest with him/her and it will be allright, they will help you, I promise.  I can kick myself in the a$$ for not doing this a long time ago.  I finally feel free to have my life back.  I only have one complaint, they make us be at the clinic by 8:30am on Sat and Sun.   Oh well, I just come home and go back to sleep for a few hours.  Weekends are my only chance to catch up on my sleep, so I do it that way.  Have a great day and keep me posted

Take Care

Patrice

[tom to Brighty]

laser teatment for addiction? W-H-A-T! Correct me if I'm wrong but don't lasers burn things? What are they talking about? A pre-frontal lobotomy (such as in the case of George W. Bush)? Burning up the opiate receptors in my brain? If it has to do with brain surgry, count me out on that one.

[Frank to Tara]

Brighty,

Thank you so much for your kind words. I really tried to start a pen pal with NA but it became mundane and just a waste of time. So, you guys are stuck with me. I will be posting as I detox and just to check in.

Brighty I was fascinated by the ibogaine and went on my own net surf turning up simply incredible data about what could be a wonder drug for those of us with insight but little self control. I have been in therapy and was able to stop using during that time. I would love to try this drug, although I need to learn much more and, it appears from both a fiscial and logistical perspective it's off limits.  Anyway, when I have more time I am going to start a thread on it.

Again, thanks for being there today - you helped.

[Brighty to Tom]

I'll try to read your post today if I can get to it. I am home on Mondays for awhile. LOL ... Presidental Medal of Freedom?????How about heroism... living with addiction and not killing the addict is a major personal accomplishment !!:-)) Freedom is breaking the chains of emotional enslavement.... and that I worry and hang on to my fears that this could happen again really means that I am NOT free yet. THIS president..... he's going to fight drugs in Columbia.... he has something for me ?? Anyway, in response to the NA thing... I will tell you that nobody has despised NA more than I have... my daughter made her best drug connections there so you have my understanding..... and the dogmatic stuff... start missing meetings and you have already relapsed ****... that to me is a sort of mind control... for people that have had lives out of control it's a way of getting them to work on stuff and to that end it's good. I think that they are broader and not as dogmatic on some stuff anymore. I learned something though... as soon as my daughter wanted to be well then she found all the good people who were there to help her. We are selective magnets... we attract what we want at given times. I was always against methadone also...and still am very leary of some of it's pitfalls... but it's the lesser evil sometimes.... it's a better choice for those who will (or have) done armed robbery because their lives are out of control. Is it a poor option that is offered to us with all the other enlightened technology out there... yes!!!! I just heard something about LASER treatment for addiction... this guy in Germany is doing it.. there was a bit on the news one night but I missed it and have had to ask people  if they saw it.. maybe I should call FOX news... does anyone here know anything about this ????? Love, Brighty

[Brighty to Frank]

I am so moved by your story... like very much. I have been doing research on ibogaine and for some reason it seems that those who are willing to look at their issues have the most success with it. You seem to have a major plus in that you are able to open up and share stuff that makes most of us cringe... you know.. you are sensitive and show it. Lots of men seem to be that way on the inside but not on the outside. Just thought I'd mention it. Best wishes. Brighty

[Patrice]

You are so right.  Like I said, in my city, Fresno Ca, AA will throw an addict out of a meeting.  Now when I happened to be in Lake Tahoe a while back, both AA and NA worked together.  It wont happen in our lifetime, but one day, there will be no distintion (sp) between the 2 groups.  We will join as one.  I truely hope I see it, that would be so tough!!!  Dont ya just love it?  No more arguing on which group is better, and we can all sit in one room, and not be afraid that we will be asked to leave because of our drug of choice.  A drug is a drug, wheather it be liquid, powder, weed, or if it is smoked drank, injected or snorted, we will be ONE HAPPY FAMILY!!!!!    BTW my MMT is working out great(thanks Dan)  I am on 50mg and can stay there as long as I want, I feel normal, not loaded, I am going to my meetings, and I do not crave Heroin at all.  If I ever do crave it ,all I have to do is pull down my pants and feel the lumps from skin popping,  they look like hives that dont itch, I have the on my arms and shoulders too.  I was mutilating my body!!!  Today I feel good and greatful to be alive!!!

Take Care

Patrice

[Brighty to Patrice and Tom]

You know my daughter was away in treatment for a long time.. and they went out every night to a meeting... some were AA and some were NA... they even went to bi-polar meetings and sex addiction meetings a couple of times( that one I don't know why for sure, I think one of the kids had this addiction) but mainly AA and NA. This was in Orlando.. and the groups welcomed eachother.. in fact she said the AA was totally accepting and many addicts attended. Now she is home in a little tiny town and thought she'd try some of each.... all the folks in NA said "no" they will not accept you at AA here. She decided to do her thing and went. Well, talk about regional differences... they were right.. there were lots of older...like over 55 or 60 and up folks and they were not thrilled to hear she was an "addict". They tried to be polite and told her they would find her some nice NA meetings. A few told her "honey stay here, it's too risky to go to those drug addict groups"... LOL !!!! My guess is that every region based on it's social and cultural backgrounds has it's own climate. Then she found that the NA group here was nearly 99% pill addicts who could not relate to the life styles or subculture of street drug users. Looks to me like everyone of us still has much to learn.. we are all the same but different. However in the small city 28 miles from here the AA is made up of equal number of addicts and alcholics. Anyway, we all take a different path to healing but as long as those paths lead us home then it's ok. For what it's worth... I have had many counselors refer to my daughter's "sobriety" and she is not an alcoholic so I think the terminology is used broadly... and I think it's correct.. when she was high she sure was not sober. I also know Patrice is right... the life style on the outside is not relevant... it's the empty hole on the inside that makes us all hurt the same. You and Tom are infinitely right about your particular truths... and Tom needs to find what works and we all pray for that also. My beautiful daughter is a "junkie" by some terminology... and I know she is a recovering wonder... so I see from this place all the sensitivities that every one is displaying because we all hurt so bad sometimes.. so let's do this in a spirit of holding eachother up as best we can... God knows how you have all held me up. Love, Brighty

[Brighty to JB]

I don't know how I missed this thread !!!! I was off line for a while. CONGRATULATIONS MY FRIEND !!!! As you spend your 49th year clean I will spend my 49th praying my ass off for your success. God bless you for all the inspiration and butt honesty you give us... you could have found many reasons to call it quits ages ago... that you live with hope and grace is enough for me. You have beaten the odds so far and I believe you will continue to do so. I think you are teaching me how we are supposed to meet the challenges in our lives. You my dear friend are the oldest soul here and the one who teaches by example, not by preaching. Love and prayers to you. Your friend, Brighty.

[Frank to Tara]

JB, thanks for making me feel at home, I needed to get that off my chest. Tara, my god look at all you have accomplished. If you need to go another week at 1/2 pill per day do it. Then go another week at 1/4 ( if possibe I don't know what mgs. you're dividing)/ But look how close you are ( compared to what i am taking !!). One final piece of advice - Mondays are not good days to stop anything - there is enough pressure associated with Monday (most MI's occur on monday mornings). Finally, don't beat up on yourself - you are doing so well. You inspire folks like me.

Again, I appreciate you and JB being virtual friends. Means a lot this evening.

F.

[Tara to J.B.]

Hi JB,

I am very scared to stop taking my last 1/2 pill per day.  I don't think I'm ready.  Especially since it will be on a Monday and I will be working.  I don't know if it's the best time, what if I start to have withdrawals, that's pretty unlikely considering I only take 1/2 - 1/day right?  I wonder if I should wait for a weekend, then I think I am procrastinating the inevitable.  I am very scared and I don't know if I ever want to stop taking my 1/2 pill in the morning to get me going. I have been stressing about this all weekend and last night I had my stomach pains (I usually get them if I am stressed) and I tried to just take a buscopan(anti-spasm)but that did not work so I took a Darvon.  When I actually do stop, what am I supposed to do for pain? If I take percoset wont I become addicted immediately?  I am confused and unsure of my wants at this time but am perfectly aware of my need to rid myself of this.

Please reply with your thoughts,

Tara

[Gina]

Glad to "hear" the old Tom back. I can totally relate to your experience. The word I use is total "EUPHORIA"! Therefore, I have euphoric recall whenever I try to abstain. The MMT is going well, but I have to admit that the thought of my favorite pills is starting to enter my mind and taunt me. I keep hearing how it would be a better high if I mixed the methadone and pain pills. Very dangerous, I know. I guess I need to get my butt to another NA meeting. I don't want to f@#$ this up since I promised my loved ones I would go inpatient if this failed. I DO NOT want to do that. I just don't understand why I was satisfied for several weeks now I feel tempted again. I guess that's the nature of the beast! My first experience with my addiction was when I was in my 20's and my dad got a script for vicoden from his dentist. He didn't take them so I helped myself claiming to have cramps. I felt exactly what you described earlier. My God I thought no one could ever imagine this feeling. However, I wasn't a fiend at that time so I didn't freak when they were gone. It wasn't until my 30's that it became a problem. I would use them when I came across them (in my 20's) but wouldn't seek them. I remember my girlfriends father was dying of cancer and he had tons of tylenol w codeine 4's. They contain 60mgs of codeine instead of 30. He wasn't using them so my girlfriend gave them to me. Later, she told me she could have kicked herself since she started to "like those pills" later on. Do you know that saying in AA and NA "one is too many and a thousand is never enough" so true! During my op rehab I came across a poem about drugs that started like this. "When you live I only exist but when you exist I live" Of course it is written like the drug or alcohol is talking. It goes on to say "I've always been there for you when you had no one else, I never let you down" etc.. I will try to find it. If anyone else knows of it please tell me so I can get a copy. Tom, take care......

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I don't know who you are, Frank.  But don't ever think that you have no other place to go to get support.  This is but one place of millions in this universe of our's. One thing that I've learned is that we are all connected and that we all have things to contribute to the family of man; some light to add to the light!

In retrospect, Frank, I do know you and you know me.  J.B.