tapering off painkillers

[Joanne]

can anybody out there give me some info on tapering off percoset?  i am down to 3and one half a day, but don't know how long to wait before cutting dosage down and how much to cut down.  please, i need advice.

[Lynn]

Joanne,I have been eating percocets for the past 10 years and needless to say am horribly addicted.  I decided I can't go on like this anymore, they are not getting me high like they used to  , so I tried to taper down from 20 a day, then 8, then 6, now I find I can get through the whole day if I just eat 2 in the morning.  That is when I find I need them the most.  My "morning percs" with my coffee get me out of bed, I'm real sick if I dont have them.  I hope someday to be able to get through the day with  NO morning percs, but the urge, temptation and availability are always with me.  I can't believe the damage these pills can do, I am an emotional and physical wreck. Re-hab is not an option for me, once they clean me up at re-hab, staying clean will be my problem. I wish I could turn back time, I would never have started eating them. (By the way, I don't have any pain, I just eat them because I LOVE them!)

[barbara to pain and lortab]

I don't know where all of you manage to get your pain meds from but all I have been able to muster over 10 years is Ultram. It seemed to work at first but I am already building a tolerance to it. When the pain gets bad I would just like to freak out and tear everything around me to peices, so instead I down three mg of Klonopin. That only calms me down and stops the anxiety. These seizures make the pain worse I just wish someday to go into status and just stop breathing right there.

Being off the booze for 90 days seems like nothing to me when I am still in severe pain and still having seizures. The ole A.A. hooplah is nice but just doesn't help get me through the day.

I see two Neurologists this coming week. Hopefully one or both can do something. I have symtpoms of Lupus but my old psych doctor I dumped had said I have Fibromyalgia. I never had any of this **** when I drank but now I can not stand the feeling of being drunk and clouded in the head.

When I have seizures I go into delirium for a while though, I guess they call it post ictal something or other. I just wish I could find some strong pain killers to get rid of this f---ing pain. That is why I started drinking in the first place and now sure enough after 90 days it is back full blast! I can barely concentrate on my work anymore. I can see where people can easily get addicted. Right now I don't care about addiction only about stopping the pain!!

[Colleen]

Hi i have been on hydrocodone 10-650 for about three years and i know exactly what you are going threw.  I tried withdrawl pills they do not help. For muscle spasms i usually take a hot bath that does help. I am trying myself if you have any tips please help me out e-mail me colleenrose17@yahoo., Hope ya get better

[tom to Lynn]

ah, a girl after my own heart ... thanks for admitting the simple truth that you love opiates. Frankly, it makes no sense NOT to love something that gives you so much pleasure, so easily. We in the states are still burdened with this tedious philosophy that says man is put on this earth to suffer, and anything that even briefly lifts the curse of work-pain-death is somehow immoral. Before we can face the truth about the damage drugs do, we have to be honest enough to admit how we feel about the good things that they do. Hypocrisy eventually cripples even the best-intentioned efforts to steer kids away from the drug life. Anyway, bravo, Lynn, for your refreshing candor.

by the way, I found a site with an illuminating piece on opiates, their history and the physical mechanism by which they do what they do. Don't forget to take the links to the second and third pages. Fascinating. Check it out!

http://www.drugtext.org/sub/opiat1.html

[tom to Colleen]

go to a thread below called "Oxycontin detox", dated 8-18. look up the "tom to Charlie" posts there. I put pretty much all I've learned about handling narcotic withdrawal over my 27-year "career" in those posts. You're on the right track with the hot baths, though. Hope this helps.

[tom to Colleen]

also, some of the "tom to Mariah" posts below have info on how to "schedule" yourself down from narcs without too much unpleasantness. If you have the discipline, it really works! Let us know how you're doing this weekend. No one knows what you're feeling like we do.

[tom to med-help webmaster]

sorry to disturb your nap, but do you think you could archive some of the older threads so some of us can post new topics? I mean, really, one new thread a day? This site is as constipated as its posters ... and don't give us that, "we don't have any money" nonsense. The web doesn't charge by the word. Open this thing up or shut it down. That's what the mouse is for!

[To TOM]

Tom thank god your around. I' have gotten more help from you. I know these Docs feel liable, but the reason some of us come here is there are no other options. How many times have you read-see a specialist.Sometimes we just need a little info.The immodium was key along with hot baths.Maybe wecan't get better without rehab or AA, NA,RA, but it nice to have someone who hs been there.My wife is SO supportive but has no idea of the pain.I told her to take all the check books, atm card any money, because i will spend it.oh well...thanks

[Brian to Sick and Scared]

Try to reduce your dosage by about 10% every few days.  If you are taking 3.5, cut down to 3.25 for 3 days, then 3.0 for 3 days, etc., taking them on the schedule you normally do.  This should give your body time to adjust to the reduced dosage and will help minimize withdrawal.  Once you enter withdrawal, drink lots of fluids, take hot baths (for muscle cramps, chills and relaxation) and try to do some walking.  If you have a physician you trust or want to go to an addiction medicine specialist, you can perhaps obtain buprenorphine which is the best medication for minimizing withdrawal.

[About tom]

Tom why are you so anxious for a new thread? peole come here desperate,getting on any how or plac they can.I know you are an opiate addict but do you come here for amusement or to play doctor.
Are you looking for some new addictions or problems to challenge you?I know you are articulate and seem intelligent but you are sounding like you want to play jeopardy or something! I'll take addictions for 200.00. How do you know about the finances of this site. I know DR>s are not around for awhile at times, but I imagine this isnot al they do.I like your posts Tom and have gotten help from some. But what is with this new thread stuff?You obviously spend a lot of time here, maybe you can start your own site...: sorry lady we covered that yesterday, NEXT.

[tom to "About Tom"]

I come to this site because I want to talk with people who understand what it is to be a drug addict in today's world. Addiction can be a lonely experience. I don't feel so alone when I can exchange stories or addiction-related info with someone who has walked the same path as me. Furthermore, I would like to take some of the suffering I've gone through during 27 years of opiate addiction and use it to help other addicts. That way, I don't feel as if this part of my life has been  totally wasted. I am turning 47 next month and I want my addiction experience to have meant something. I feel good when someone tells me I helped them get through withdrawal, or I saved them from using a drug in a dangerous way. I almost always take time to let people know that I am not a doctor, just a fellow addict with sometimes more experience than they have. Why should everyone have to make all the same mistakes I have when I can give them what I honestly believe is a better way to go? And if I'm wrong, I'd like to know about it so I can learn from my visits. I love it when people like Brian get on and share what they know with us.

The reason I ask for more threads is because addiction is a broad subject and people come here for answers to all kinds of questions. More threads simply means more communication. It's not that I'm not interested in the topics in the current threads. But look at the dates of the last additions and you can see that no one is responding to them anymore. I work in the computer industry and I know that archiving old threads that have served their purpose and are no longer attracting messages is a simple matter and involves only a little of a webmaster's time. This site accepting only one new topic per day limits its effectiveness.

I hope that answers your question.

So why do you come here? Tell us your story. I'm sure you've got one. Teach us something. Participate and provide some knowledge and companionship. I look forward to your next post.

[CHAD FROM PHILLY!!!]

Hey Tom, Chad here...understand one thing..I belive that one of the reasons that I am trying to stay clean is because of the advice that you gave my girlfriend and I. Tom, you were VERY helpful! That much is true. I just posted on a thread down below, Let me know what you think. Anyway, I am sure that I speak for alot of us in the fact that you have helped many of us both detox and recover from this stuff. I just wish I would have read your posts before I withdrew cold turkey! There was no hot baths or any of that stuff for me. Just layin' in bed twitchin' like a (can't think of a good analigy) but you get the point! Chad

[percocet experiment]

I never did drugs etc... but was perscribed 12 tablets of them. anyhow interesting drug. very fast acting about 1 hour before the take effect. now I realize how people get hooked on this. anyhow I noticed like a nice mellowing effect and a slowdown in breathing was noticed, Im still able to function though mentally such as make decisions etc.. but at a slower rate naturally (Im typing this letter). anyhow I do relize this is a artifical feeling and do know if I take this drug again all it will do is create this "high" ie mellow, buzz etc.. it is a interesting effect. but I do know it has negative implications and will end in a addiction so I dumped the pills. so thats my first and last experience with this drug. what kept me from being an addict and I think this is what has kept me from doing drugs (did smoke some pot once) is I know there is a terrible price to pay and this feeling (although its a good feeling) its a short term thing with a long term price. anyhow I thing reality is better. anyhow just bored and stoned on percocet for now. back to reality tomorrow.

[tom to Chad]

thanks for the kind words. I appreciate it. I think "About Tom" asked valid questions so I was happy to respond. I can't always say what draws me to this site, and I suppose someone could deduce a variety of motives from the content of my posts. I was a little sarcastic with the webmaster, but what can I say? It was late, and, yeah, I was high.
Anyway, thanks. I'm going to read your other post now. Good to hear from you. Give my best to your girlfriend.

[tom to percocet experiment]

If you haven't "fallen in love" with the stuff yet, maybe you're smart to get out of the relationship before it becomes permanent. I'm curious, though, what brought you to this site?

[katie r]

I can not do this! I've tried probably 20 times to get off the hydracodone...and I can't! I keep going back! Any advice? Don't want to talk to my doctor cause I'm afraid he'll cut me off and I'm afraid to be without these wonderful pills. For some reason i just don't think NA would work for me.....what else is there I can do?

[tom to just me]

I was addicted to hydrocodone for about ten years. When I was deep into it, the last thing I could do was think clearly, rationally or objectively about anything. I was either scoring and getting high as fast as I could, or I was sliding into withdrawal and looking for the bathroom. Before you can really decide about long-term recovery, you've got to get the detox accomplished. That is as much as you can afford to think about right now. Hydrocodone is one of the tougher drugs to get on top of, and few can do it without getting skilled help. There are more treatment options than just NA, but even if you had all of them explained to you now, in your current state, none of them would seem any good. Right now, I'd bet that nothing sounds like it makes any sense.
As someone who has been there, my suggestion to you would be to just think about detoxing. Don't try to solve the whole thing now. You can't. Nobody can in your present state. Recovery from drug addiction is a complicated journey. The most you can expect of yourself is to see your way to the first bend in the road. Think about just getting some professional medical help to see you through detox. Your options, the whole world for that matter, will look very different when you've got all the toxins out of your body and your mind is clear. Just work on getting to the front door of the detox unit. The rest of the answers will come when you're ready to hear them. Good luck.

[Frank]

I found a very helpful site www.oxycontinNightmare.homestead.com

[tom to Brian, DrSteve or both]

I have chronic pain from three degenerating disks in my lower back. I have had surgery (in 1993) but have opted not to have any more. I lead a normal life that includes several miles of jogging per day. I "successfully" control my pain with plain propoxyphene hydrochloride combined with OTC enteric aspirin. However, in order to get effective relief, I have to take three darvon 65's at a time, usually about 4 hours apart, and average between 12 to 15 Darvon a day. Naturally, I'm concerned about the toll that much propoxyphene is taking on my liver. Apart from back pain, I feel fine. Apart from the quantity of propoxyphene I'm taking, the darvon/enteric aspirin combo controls my pain surprisingly well. In terms of the performance of my medication, I have no complaints.

Every two months or so, my doctor switches me to Vicodin for a few weeks, in the hope that this will keep my tolerance to Darvon from increasing. For two years now, this has actually worked. My Darvon (and Vicodin) dosages have stayed the same.

When I use Vicodin, I take two 5 mg tablets, 4 times a day. The Vicodin is more potent, to be sure, but it wears off quickly, hours before I can or should take another dose, producing a rollercoaster effect of 2 hrs relief/2 hours of pain

[Angie to Ken]

Just read the perc experiment and I have a question. I hope this does not sound moronic because its the truth. When I discovered the euphoria that opiates provide I was in my early twenties. The were prescried for having my wisdom teeth removed. There was 20 vicodin and when the were gone that was it. It wasn't until 10 years later that I had the oportunity to have some more prescribed that my interest really peaked. I had taken some, in between those years by friends but, again, no big deal. As I started taking them on a regular basis, I read the warnings of addiction but didn't really know what that meant. I did not have the fear of addiction because I had no idea what that meant! I am 37 with a degree and worked in the mental health field since completing college. Did anyone else not know about addiction until it was too late?

[CHAD FROM PHILLY!!!]

Ughh, yea, like no one ever told me.,...bastards!

[Brian to Sick and Scared]

I'm going to give you my honest opinion, for whatever it's worth.  I don't have your medical history or the benefit of an examination; however, from your description of jogging, which is a particularly hard activity on the back, you fortunately do not appear to have the type of pain warranting oxycontin.  Furthermore, with your history of addiction, oxycontin would likely be very difficult if not impossible for you to take without abusing the drug, becoming addicted and experiencing numerous periods of withdrawal.  There are many non-surgical options for your condition, many of which may be more effective than surgery.

[percocet experiment]

I found the webpage because I was curious to see what percocet consists of, someone asked if I know it is addictive, I figure all these pharms. are addictive, common sense in my book if its a pill and makes you feel real good. its addictive somehow. anyhow its not something I will miss. but Im not of the "addictive personality" so I guess thats the difference. how long does it take before someone gets addicted to that. I figure it can be one day or one week so for someone to be addicted to it they must be real unhappy with thier life to begin with and since the drug "percocet etc.." makes the feel good they take it knowing it will cause addiction in the long run but dont care because the life the person is living is not great and the addiction risk is not enough to weigh against the risks. anyhow Im writing an essay so the experiment was interesting I wrote down all the effects on a half hour basis. one thing for sure I cant believe the prescribe this drug. I figure there are better alternatives out there because this drugs gets you high more than anything else. Pot pales to percocet and I cant believe pot is illegal.

[tom to Brian]

damn, I knew you'd say that. You are, of course, correct. I keep looking for a loophole in the law of cause and effect. Ah, well ...

Thanks, Brian, have a good evening.