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Anyone With Methadone History?
I'm curious, does anyone here have experience with high dose withdrawals (lets say, over 30 milligrams)? I don't just mean a few days, I mean a week or two minimum. There's been a lot of activity dealing with the prison deaths (people on methadone locked up, denied their dose, and die) but from what I've seen, they're suggesting the deaths result from cold turkey withdrawal of any amount, high or low.
I suppose I'm looking for some poor unfortunate who had the bad luck to go through withdrawals on a high dose and a low dose! :)
I suppose I'm looking for some poor unfortunate who had the bad luck to go through withdrawals on a high dose and a low dose! :)
I'm the 50 mg/day methadone guy, age 53 and disabled. I am only taking 30 mg methadone/day now but at my pain clinic appointment last week I admitted to self-medicating with alcohol or sometimes cocaine prior to my forced detox. Hell, I was on tne same dose for over 15 years, and I told my Primary MD everything. I haven't used alcohol or coke for weeks, but now I am clinically defined as "highly addiction-prone/abusive". The whole reason I self-medicated was because my MD refused to vary my treatment. The pain center referred me to a suboxone MD (who refused to treat me) then both referred me to a clinic which doesn't do pain treatment, just "anxiety, abuse, and adult behavior modification". What about the intolerable foot, leg, back and arm and hand pain from arachnoiditis and RSD? Am I "too complicated" a patient to get treated as a normal human being who's body was irretrievably diseased by a surgeon's botched oil-based myelogram? Dammit, the Medical Community caused my disease, and now I feel discarded. What do they want from me? I'll give them a contract if they want, and even submit to random urine and/or blood samples. This just ain't right, and it's becoming more depressing than ever. I live in central CT. I still work full-time, from a PC, at home in IT Helpdesk support. I don't want to lose what I already have. That includes a wife and teenaged daughter. And a job, even though it doesn't meet our expenses. I think it wil take God to take me passed this "Dark Night of the Soul" Prayers are appreciated folks! and suggestions... I guess I'm just too honest. Mark_C
If you decide to go on the suboxone treatment plan you can transfer from methadone to suboxone but you must get your dose down to 30mg before they will accept you. They will start you on the highest dose of 32mg. However you will have to score a 5 or higher on the (COWS) Clinical opiate withdrawal scale, a score of 5 is mild w/d, a 13-24 is a moderate w/d, 25-36 is moderate severe w/d and finally 36 or more is severe w/d. depending how quickly you taper off the methadone. You could score a 13+ moderate w/d. Have your medial records faxed over to the pain MD after you have signed the HIPPA release with the clinic, Your best choice would to find a pain MD that has the sub waiver. They would be able to keep you on suboxone indefinitelly, The sub is a C-III drug therefore after you have built a relationship with the MD, He could see you every 3 months as they are able to wrote you refills as well as call in your meds, I am on 8mg every 6hrs and 300mg of Lyrica which is used for nerve pain, If your on Medicare part D they will not pay for the Lyrical they will pay for Neurotin, The makers of Lyrica are being sued right now by the FDA for encouraging MD to prescribe this drug off label, so for now medicare says no for nerve pain or you could do a PA , but the good news is the suboxone is a covered formulary now and will be for 2008. I've been in treatment for 7 months now and I feel great and I am not worried about the future or a possible detox. Because it is a relatively mild withdrawal profile when done as directed. The only reason they would discharge you would be for U/A violation, no benzo's as the combination could be fatal, THC forget it out the door you go!------------------NOAH
No, I'm not taking anything yet. I'd prefer to not start anything like that until I'm totally off. I've been told by a few once long term methadone users I know fairly well who have 12+ years clean now that the best way to do it (the way they did it) is to drop down to literally half a milligram, and THEN start trying to go two or three days without it. When you can do that without too much negative repercussion, they claimed they had not to much initial withdrawal, and the PAWS were minimal, only lasting for a few months tops.
The clonidine has other repercussions, it's actually not that safe a drug to take. So I'm using it only as a last resort emergency thing. I have used over the counter stuff to help for the worst symptoms though.
The clonidine has other repercussions, it's actually not that safe a drug to take. So I'm using it only as a last resort emergency thing. I have used over the counter stuff to help for the worst symptoms though.
Savas I had alot less problems with slow taper.You are at3 miligrams?? Why not go one day nothing and wait as long as possible.I justwent 60 hous again.This time was easier.I am not ready yet.. But keep on tapering.Are you going to take clonidine? Ruthie
I'm making a point of not taking anything else while finishing the taper; I want to make sure I get the most out of any meds I have to take when I really need them. This is the first day I woke up and didn't feel like my skin was crawling, Which is a relief. I hope it isn't like this the next/last two times, as that will really suck...
Methadone is as strong as morphine, perhaps a little stronger. It has a very long half-life, and does not cause the usual narcotic high found with oxy or percs or fentanyl. However, it works really well in controlling pain. It does not drag down the human spirit as other narcotics do, but you can really act nutso if you drink on top of methadone. I was forced off 50 mg/day, and days 3 through 9 were a nightmare, especially with the heebie jeebies. But later I discovered that Effexor also has severe narcotic withdrawal symptoms, so maybe discontinuing the methadone alone wouldn't have been as bad as I had it. Plus, there are substances called suboxin and subutex that greatly reduce withdrawal symptoms, but need to be prescribed by MDs with a special Govt. license. I sure could have used some when I was in lockup, let me tell you! Methadone, if used a long time, can break down bony processes and make bones break easier. I think 20 years on the stuff was enough for me. I'm 53 now. I just keep praying for answers.
A quick sum up is it's a secondary set of withdrawal symptoms that are low level (general weakness, stomach issues, depression, etc). While not really bad, over a long term of time they're debilitating and awful to go through. Like having a flu for 8 months straight.
Like most people determined to quit the PAWS got me in the end last time (my first time). I didn't know anything about them, no doctor acknowledged them, and I gave up after three months because they insisted there was something wrong with ME, it wasn't from the drugs.
Like most people determined to quit the PAWS got me in the end last time (my first time). I didn't know anything about them, no doctor acknowledged them, and I gave up after three months because they insisted there was something wrong with ME, it wasn't from the drugs.
http://www.tlctx.com/ar_pages/paw_part1.htm
This will explain all, just copy and paste.
This will explain all, just copy and paste.
Methadone has two weeks of hard core withdrawal symptoms. The PAWS can take a year or two to get over.
Oxy has 4 days of hard core withdrawal symptoms. I'm not sure how long the PAWS lasts, but I don't think it's as long.
Oxy has 4 days of hard core withdrawal symptoms. I'm not sure how long the PAWS lasts, but I don't think it's as long.
hey i forgot to ask you my question. i just want to know whether there is any significant difference between ms contin and methadone or not?
hey man i just want to say good luck and also to tell you that you seem to be in a lot of pain. anyway i have a question for you. my doctor once told me (this was about one week ago) that he might prescribe methadone for me instead of ms contin. he said it is cheaper something that i can afford. but what happened was that two weeks ago i this ms contin started to make me really sick. i was taking them for two weeks and now it has been two days that i'm off of it. Man i would never imagined that it would be that hard to stop this kind of drug. now i am so scared about any kind of narcotic medication even vicodin but i had to take a couple today because my back was killing me but i know that i would never ever want to take anything stronger that vicodin. but believe me i will stop taking this vicodin as soon as my back gets better. it has been a year since my back surgery (it was a fusion). my doctor says that he thinks i should get some specific kind injection to take care my facet joints. i don't know something like that. anyway this website has helped me a lot during last two days. i just want to thank you guys again for all you support
I was on methadone 50 mg for at least 2 decades, and I swear it caused, or at least contributed greatly to the osteonarcrosis in both my feet. I had to wear an air cast on my left foot/leg for months, and use a cane. the spinal pain I experience (Arachnoiditis) makes my back feel like I'm a Maine lobster, and the diner is attempting to crack the lobster tail off the thorax. Funnily enough, after a few more days without the methadone, my terrible back pain eased up considerably. But I do have RSD, and my entire being feels like a raw nerve like a tooth nerve exposed to the air when the dentist is preparing to fill a cavity. With the pawlty 5 mg vicodin they are giving me now, I still feel like a raw nerve, and I have constant nausea and diarrhea. I refuse to use the tramadol (Ultram ER 200 mg/day) because it is contraindicated with SSRIs (effexor XR 75 mg/day-which I'm now on). My poophead of a Primary physician still hasn't had the professional sense to call me back. I got my methadone back from the jail, but will not take more than 20 mg/day. The rest is about30 mg Vicodin. I don't feel well at all, hanging in there as best as I can. Anyone care to offer any suggestions (outside of smoking some good rock, lol!)
I think oxycontin's gotten a "rep" and most doctors avoid it for pain management now.
I THINK I'm starting to feel more human finally. Mostly it's waking up feeling crappy, take the dose, and after an hour feel normal. It was never that bad overall, it's just that it's dragging on so damned LONG this time. Usually I drop and after two weeks feel okay. This time I'm going into my fourth week and still getting *side effects*, and I can't tell half the time if it's the dose drop or just ME. That's the worst thing about being on these drugs, you can't tell half the time if what you're suffering is a side effect, withdrawal, or just every day life doing it's thing!
I try to just not think about *why* and accept it as just *is* (great line in a book, a wolf talking to his human friend who's depressed.
He say's; "Wolves don't get depressed, they just *are*. Take my advice, be a wolf, it's simpler."
As tired as I feel, I think I'll put on Devil May Cry for a while and just be a really savage wolf. :)
I THINK I'm starting to feel more human finally. Mostly it's waking up feeling crappy, take the dose, and after an hour feel normal. It was never that bad overall, it's just that it's dragging on so damned LONG this time. Usually I drop and after two weeks feel okay. This time I'm going into my fourth week and still getting *side effects*, and I can't tell half the time if it's the dose drop or just ME. That's the worst thing about being on these drugs, you can't tell half the time if what you're suffering is a side effect, withdrawal, or just every day life doing it's thing!
I try to just not think about *why* and accept it as just *is* (great line in a book, a wolf talking to his human friend who's depressed.
He say's; "Wolves don't get depressed, they just *are*. Take my advice, be a wolf, it's simpler."
As tired as I feel, I think I'll put on Devil May Cry for a while and just be a really savage wolf. :)
I don't think going off 50 mg/day of methadone would have been all that bad by itself, but I was also withdrawing from 75 mg Effexor, which, apparently, is as bad or worse than heavy opiate withdrawal. Lucky me. I'm back on the Effexor. I couldn't stand the smells and taste hallucinations.
Better a short time on Eartthan a long time in Purgatory. A Surgeon caused my initial problem. I give up my suffering for the Souls in Purgatory. As well as any frigging sanity I might have left. God have Mercy on us all.
I called Dr. Koplin’s office on Monday 10/8 about the contraindications between Ultram (tramador) and SSRIs (Effexor). I was told that my case was ‘too complicated’ and that none of the office Doctors could help me. I would have to wit for Dr. Koplin to call me back on Tues 10-9-07. He never called. I went to the prison and got my methadone back. I took 20 mg. I felt better for about 4 hours, falling again. Vicadin doesn't do s***.
MC
MC
These were the questions running though my head before I quit methadone. What is the benefit for you to be on methadone for this long. Does it make you even for the day or keep you calm or stable. Does the benefits out weight the side effects? Are you just afraid of what the w/d's are going to do to you or that you will go back and use again. Do you feel like your at the lake and the water feels cold and the ppl in the lake are screaming, jump in and you will get use to it. The worst thing is you go back on it but at least you will know. I have told you i had no problem getting off 115 mg, c/t after 6 mos on M'done for long term opiate use. I have not used for a few mos now since i got off, but still struggle with addiction, not methadone on a daily basis.
That's exactly what my counselor is telling me to do (unofficially of course!). Well, it's nice to hear that it does serve some purpose. I keep getting people telling me it's a waste of time and the withdrawals will be about the same. Which is easy to ignore when it's going well.
Thanks folks, I appreciate the responses. The worst thing about this is the days I go into the clinic the other patients give *wonderful* advice, which I generally ignore. But if you keep hearing the same thing over and over it does get into your head and start to make you wonder.
Most of the patients at my clinic are on a few hundred milligrams and they act like I'm doing something strange by going through the whole taper thing (Then again, they get their dose and go out front to buy some heroin, so what do they know?!?!).
And getting not enough sleep fogs the thinking and I suppoose is making me susceptible to stupidity..
Thanks folks, I appreciate the responses. The worst thing about this is the days I go into the clinic the other patients give *wonderful* advice, which I generally ignore. But if you keep hearing the same thing over and over it does get into your head and start to make you wonder.
Most of the patients at my clinic are on a few hundred milligrams and they act like I'm doing something strange by going through the whole taper thing (Then again, they get their dose and go out front to buy some heroin, so what do they know?!?!).
And getting not enough sleep fogs the thinking and I suppoose is making me susceptible to stupidity..
you dont sound desperate to me, which means you kinda feel strong, which is dangerous. when i feel terrible i can take others advise, but when i feel ok i tend to do what i want. my advise would be to stick with what your doing, you are getting better, not going backwards. yes it takes time, but if you change your game now there is no way to know what will happen?
patience is better than instant gratification sometimes.
patience is better than instant gratification sometimes.
hey, hello - I got off methdone twice: first time I jumped off 40mg, had all the c*** previously described, but the worst was the agony in the knee joints upon walking - I lasted a week I think. My HEAD was not wanting to detox and not wanting to make it easy for myself, using was an option, and the detox was like a painful cat-and-mouse with myself, waiting to see how soon I busted.
Second time, I was determined to quit, so I set my mind that I would take as postive an approach as possible, and that I would not read more into the w/d symptoms than necessary i.e. not let them get bigger and bigger in my mind, in order to justify using. Becuase there was no option to use, it served me best to minimise the w/d mentally as much as possible. I tapered very slowly, they took me down at the proper slow rate (this is in australia) - what I used to do for the last two months is tip the tiny dose down the sink while pretending to dilute it with water, and only take it every third or foruth day. I always had the safety blanket of knowing that I could have my tiny dose the next day, but I kind of came off it when I was ready, instead of prolonging. And in my experience, the w/d on a slow taper like i did were negligible, and way way less than my 40ml hellish jump.
Now I know that what I did was "naughty" and therefore not endorsing that you do the same LOL - but its just one persons way of getting off the stuff successfully. After I got off, I used heroin for about 6 months and then got totally clean, was clean for 5 happy years until I took a codeine tablet too many for a headache, and now am f***** again. AAAAARGGG - I tell you what, I hope I never ever take my clean-ness for granted again, and regain the humility that I used to have once upon a time!
Good luck!
Alex
Second time, I was determined to quit, so I set my mind that I would take as postive an approach as possible, and that I would not read more into the w/d symptoms than necessary i.e. not let them get bigger and bigger in my mind, in order to justify using. Becuase there was no option to use, it served me best to minimise the w/d mentally as much as possible. I tapered very slowly, they took me down at the proper slow rate (this is in australia) - what I used to do for the last two months is tip the tiny dose down the sink while pretending to dilute it with water, and only take it every third or foruth day. I always had the safety blanket of knowing that I could have my tiny dose the next day, but I kind of came off it when I was ready, instead of prolonging. And in my experience, the w/d on a slow taper like i did were negligible, and way way less than my 40ml hellish jump.
Now I know that what I did was "naughty" and therefore not endorsing that you do the same LOL - but its just one persons way of getting off the stuff successfully. After I got off, I used heroin for about 6 months and then got totally clean, was clean for 5 happy years until I took a codeine tablet too many for a headache, and now am f***** again. AAAAARGGG - I tell you what, I hope I never ever take my clean-ness for granted again, and regain the humility that I used to have once upon a time!
Good luck!
Alex
Heh heh...just to set it straight, I'm a guy, though my wife would be amused to know she's my boyfriend. I always say I'm the prettier of the two of us. "How can she look bad when I look so good?!?!" :) Not that she isn't gorgeous but as Muhammad Ali used to say; "I'm so vera pretty!" :)
Lord. I've heard the jail withdrawal stuff but it's always incredible to hear just how awful it is first hand. I had one time I got tossed in for three days when on vic's and that was hell. I can't imagine weeks of methadone withdrawal.
I'm beginning to wonder if this tapering thing is bullsh*t. I'm on a low dose and they want me to finish out the couple of milligram drops of the taper but it's beginning to seem like an extended torture at this point. This last drop I've had almost three weeks of sleeping only three hours a night, and while that's better than no sleep, I'm beginning to wonder if two more months of his is really worth it. If I'm going to feel like hell anyway, I'm thinking I should just void my "contract" and walk away and get it started and over with.
(Medicaid has some weird rules with methadone clinics in NY. Walking off your clinic voids a heck of a lot of treatment from your provider which effects all your health issues, not just the drug related stuff).
I'm ALSO wondering if the withdrawal from a few milligrams is no different from the withdrawals from 50 or 90 or higher. It seems like everyone describes the same symptoms, regardless of what amount they come off of.
Lord. I've heard the jail withdrawal stuff but it's always incredible to hear just how awful it is first hand. I had one time I got tossed in for three days when on vic's and that was hell. I can't imagine weeks of methadone withdrawal.
I'm beginning to wonder if this tapering thing is bullsh*t. I'm on a low dose and they want me to finish out the couple of milligram drops of the taper but it's beginning to seem like an extended torture at this point. This last drop I've had almost three weeks of sleeping only three hours a night, and while that's better than no sleep, I'm beginning to wonder if two more months of his is really worth it. If I'm going to feel like hell anyway, I'm thinking I should just void my "contract" and walk away and get it started and over with.
(Medicaid has some weird rules with methadone clinics in NY. Walking off your clinic voids a heck of a lot of treatment from your provider which effects all your health issues, not just the drug related stuff).
I'm ALSO wondering if the withdrawal from a few milligrams is no different from the withdrawals from 50 or 90 or higher. It seems like everyone describes the same symptoms, regardless of what amount they come off of.
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