Aa
Is it possible that I am addicted to xanax?
A friend gave me about 30 xanax tabs .5 mg about a month ago. I was suffering from a lot of anxiety. The pills really helped for the first few days, but then they stopped working. i am addicted to alcohol and marijuana but usually avoid pills because i was in a psych ward for a year and heavily medicated. I haven't taken any xanax for a 5 days and I can't sleep, have really wierd dreams, I am nauseous ,no appetite diahrea, crying, headaches, dry mouth etc. this sounds like everything i have read about xanax addiction. Is it possible to become addicted this quick? Help me please I am so sick!
Hey, my name is Ashley and I'm just 16 and I've had severe migraines for the past 3 years and i finally found a pain pill that helps but the side effects keep me up and I always feel jittery and uncomfortable so I have been taking the xanax to calm the side effects down and so far its helped a lot.. I have anxiety also and it helps me a lot but lately I've been finding myself wanting to take the xanax more often then I should just so i can be calm and relax and its starting to worry me.. is this a sign that I could possibly be addicted to this? I'm worried and I don't know what to do. If anyone would care to help me understand this and possibly give me advice I would appreciate it more than anything else in the world. I don't want to go down that path because I know addictions can mess up your life in so many ways. I just need some one to talk to about it. My friends would think I'm just over reacting and that.nothing will go wrong and plus its very embarrassing.. and my family doesn't know that I've been feeling this way. They do know i take the prescription but they don't know i have a problem with it and I'm afraid to ask them about it cause I.don't want them to think I have a problem.. if anyone would care to talk to me or help I would greatly appreciate. Please if anyone had been through a similar situation or knows how I feel i would love to talk.. I'm basically desperate to find someone to talk to about this. And I'm praying I find that person soon.. thanks to everyone who took the time to read this..
Well, day one and I feel OK. Just found out that I am having company for the weekend -- not part of my plan! But the guests come first, in this case (it's a long story, but they have been away for a while) So I will see what I feel like tomorrow. There's a few more things that I know I could do to prepare a little better for the wd, so I'm not opposed to pushing it off a week if I have to. As far as taking Valium goes, ultimately I will do what I feel I need to do. I'm extremely close to my guests (a nephew that's not much younger than I and his wife), and I've always been able to be very open with them concerning my substance abuse issues. And maybe I'm looking for an excuse to push it off (I'm not looking forward to the wd -- I'm not insane!), but I don't think so -- I'm determined to end this and reclaim my freedom. As I've mentioned, I have a back-up plan (end of April) in case this doesn't work. I know it's silly, but I feel like I'll be letting you guys down if I don't make it this weekend -- weird.... If either of you would care to share, what support do you use (besides this awesome forum) to help yourselves out? I tried the AA thing for drinking, and if anything, it hurt rather than helped. But that's another whole topic.... Oh, my muscles have been aching -- the calcium/magnesium REALLY does help some. Peace to you both
I have more to ask and say, but don't have time right now ...but I'll be back............ Peace to all of you -- take care of yourselves.....
I have more to ask and say, but don't have time right now ...but I'll be back............ Peace to all of you -- take care of yourselves.....
Yes, I came off of a two-year Xanax addiction using Valium. Here's why that doesn't bother me as far as general detox advice goes. In 25 years of non-stop opiate abuse, mostly Vicodin, I detoxed myself about 100 times using Valium. I never had the slightest urge to use it beyond the detox. I then went on a five-year hydro and propoxyphene binge with no detoxing at all. Three years into this, I picked up Xanax for daily use, at first to give my narcs a bigger punch. Xanax was not as immediately sedating as Valium and had a dramatic onset (unlike Valium). After a few months of daily and nightly Xanax inhalation (you have to understand that the quantities I took were off the scale), I continued to take the Xanax to cope with my new benzo withdrawal symptoms. So, yes, I am recovering from benzo addiction, but I didn't become hooked as a result of using Valium for a 4 or 5 day opiate detox. It happened three years after my last detox and involved two years of 24/7 use of what is apparently the most addictive benzo, Xanax. Kids, don't try this at home!
Most people are not going to go on a 3-decade opiate bender puncuated by 100 Valium detoxes and two years of round-the-clock Xanax use like I did -- at least, not many people who live to talk about it.
Also, benzos are so common in our society, I rarely meet or talk to anyone over the age of 18 who hasn't sampled one of them for fun or medical purposes. Most people I talk to about opiate detox are already more than familiar with benzos. So I'm not saving them from anything by steering them away from Valium.
If there ever is a safer, equally effective and available alternative to benzos for opiate detox, then I'll suggest it instead. Of course, for those fortunate enough to have access to a medical detox, there are indeed better ways to go. (Buprenorphine, Clonodine)
You are probably right about the T3's. What I question is this: since codeine's mode of action is to be metabolized into morphine, isn't codeine WD really morphine WD? Mmmmm, 'don't really know.
Thomas
Most people are not going to go on a 3-decade opiate bender puncuated by 100 Valium detoxes and two years of round-the-clock Xanax use like I did -- at least, not many people who live to talk about it.
Also, benzos are so common in our society, I rarely meet or talk to anyone over the age of 18 who hasn't sampled one of them for fun or medical purposes. Most people I talk to about opiate detox are already more than familiar with benzos. So I'm not saving them from anything by steering them away from Valium.
If there ever is a safer, equally effective and available alternative to benzos for opiate detox, then I'll suggest it instead. Of course, for those fortunate enough to have access to a medical detox, there are indeed better ways to go. (Buprenorphine, Clonodine)
You are probably right about the T3's. What I question is this: since codeine's mode of action is to be metabolized into morphine, isn't codeine WD really morphine WD? Mmmmm, 'don't really know.
Thomas
Two different viewpoints, but the same objective. I must agree with Thomas on this one, but hear me out. The hardest part of w/d is by far the lack of sleep. If I was capable of getting my hands on valium to help me sleep I would have done it. With that said...I now know the dangers of benzo addiction, by reading this forum. So I would use the valium, but only for a short period of time. Many in-house and out-patient centers utilize short term dosing of benzos. Know the dangers, know your self, and be honest about why you use it. Peace
Kilo
Kilo
The engagement off? Mais non! I could never be betrothed to a man I can't argue with!
First off: I'm a little off myself today. A few of my F buds go to a neurologist in Boston who deals with headache disorders & med abuse & overuse. One has been off since Thanksgiving after a 20 yr. habit & the other has gone from 20 F#3 to 5 Plain a day. This doc has them on Neurontin & they swear it not only helps with withdrawal but headaches & insomnia too. She cuts them 1 tab every 2+ wks. I saw my doc yesterday & he was very enthused about this method & had heard about this tack so he put me on it & at 5F a day now, he said I should be off completely in 10 wks. HELP! Neurontin is non-addictive but I feel SO STONED. I won't even talk about last nt.! It sure makes cutting down the F easy with me feeling like a lunchbucket. So, I'm a little "off" here but nonetheless!
Your post made some very valid points & as per usual, was well written & documented.
BUT!
As per valium: I was advising pepsi who is going c/t from 8 T3's a day. In this arena, I know whereof I speak. I just stopped a 10+ a day habit Jan. 20 after countless attempts. I would NEVER EVER advise anyone on vicodin, oxycontin, etc. (I was on percocette for quite a while & went thru detox hell but it wasn't really a big deal because I was switched to F3's afterwards).;-) To speak of meds which I know nothing about is arrogant, cruel and just plain stupid. It was pepsi I was speaking to & I thought - and may well have been wrong - my posts were directed to her and for her. The woman clearly has balls & brains & one hell of a positive attitude & she, like an intelligent person, took our advice & decided she *might* take valium. That was good enough for me. Knowledge is power & no one, not even 1 of those docs ever advised me as to how dangerous valium was.
An addiction doc & myriad documentation talks about the danger of an addict "getting the taste" of another addictive substance & switching poisons. I've done this more times than I can recall. If I can sway someone away from valium & family, than I will because it is a nightmare drug.
Am I speaking the language of sobriety? Perhaps. But in this realm, I think I speak of one who has been there.
Speaking of which. Didn't you just quit valium yourself? Valium & vikes? If it was so helpful & safe to you during detox, how come you became addicted to it? Perhaps I read your missives wrong & if I did, I do apologize - sincerely.
What's the alternative to valium? There are a number of options. To name a few: Balls. Grit. Steely reserve. Determination.
Well, I must go in search of a man who can put up with my ornery ways....do you know anyone?
Joods
First off: I'm a little off myself today. A few of my F buds go to a neurologist in Boston who deals with headache disorders & med abuse & overuse. One has been off since Thanksgiving after a 20 yr. habit & the other has gone from 20 F#3 to 5 Plain a day. This doc has them on Neurontin & they swear it not only helps with withdrawal but headaches & insomnia too. She cuts them 1 tab every 2+ wks. I saw my doc yesterday & he was very enthused about this method & had heard about this tack so he put me on it & at 5F a day now, he said I should be off completely in 10 wks. HELP! Neurontin is non-addictive but I feel SO STONED. I won't even talk about last nt.! It sure makes cutting down the F easy with me feeling like a lunchbucket. So, I'm a little "off" here but nonetheless!
Your post made some very valid points & as per usual, was well written & documented.
BUT!
As per valium: I was advising pepsi who is going c/t from 8 T3's a day. In this arena, I know whereof I speak. I just stopped a 10+ a day habit Jan. 20 after countless attempts. I would NEVER EVER advise anyone on vicodin, oxycontin, etc. (I was on percocette for quite a while & went thru detox hell but it wasn't really a big deal because I was switched to F3's afterwards).;-) To speak of meds which I know nothing about is arrogant, cruel and just plain stupid. It was pepsi I was speaking to & I thought - and may well have been wrong - my posts were directed to her and for her. The woman clearly has balls & brains & one hell of a positive attitude & she, like an intelligent person, took our advice & decided she *might* take valium. That was good enough for me. Knowledge is power & no one, not even 1 of those docs ever advised me as to how dangerous valium was.
An addiction doc & myriad documentation talks about the danger of an addict "getting the taste" of another addictive substance & switching poisons. I've done this more times than I can recall. If I can sway someone away from valium & family, than I will because it is a nightmare drug.
Am I speaking the language of sobriety? Perhaps. But in this realm, I think I speak of one who has been there.
Speaking of which. Didn't you just quit valium yourself? Valium & vikes? If it was so helpful & safe to you during detox, how come you became addicted to it? Perhaps I read your missives wrong & if I did, I do apologize - sincerely.
What's the alternative to valium? There are a number of options. To name a few: Balls. Grit. Steely reserve. Determination.
Well, I must go in search of a man who can put up with my ornery ways....do you know anyone?
Joods
Thanks, Jerri. That makes me feel very good, and I appreciate that. Stay in touch.
Thomas
Thomas
Yes, Butalbital Baby, we can agree to disagree on Valium.
In my experience, the vast majority of people trying to quit a significant opiate habit cold turkey simply will not succeed without effective sedation during the first 4 or 5 days. You can exhort people coming down from 20, 30 or 40 Vicodin per day habits to quit without using a potentially addictive sedative, but you're naive to believe that they even hear you. People in the depths of narcotic addiction are in a place where reason and prudence have no meaning.
You cannot effectively advise an addict using the language of sobriety. You must speak their language. And theirs is the language of need -- primal, all encompassing, overwhelming need. Telling a Vicodin or OxyContin addict that they must not only quit cold turkey, but must also do it without any meaningful assistance is pointless. They won't do it, so why say it?
I'm interested in results, not ideology. Ideology only works in an ideal world. As to the danger of using Valium for opiate detox, I don't know of a single person who became addicted to Valium by using it for a 5-day opiate detox, including myself. I'm sure they're out there, but everything I know tells me they are exceptions to the rule.
It might strengthen your argument if you suggested an alternative to using Valium -- a widely available, non-addictive substance capable of providing the same level of sedation as Valium. I don't actually expect you to propose one because I know it doesn't exist.
Playing with fire using Valium to get off Vics and Oxys? Potentially, yes. But it is often the only way most of us ever make it out of the hell of opiate addiction.
So, does this mean our engagement is off?
Thomas
In my experience, the vast majority of people trying to quit a significant opiate habit cold turkey simply will not succeed without effective sedation during the first 4 or 5 days. You can exhort people coming down from 20, 30 or 40 Vicodin per day habits to quit without using a potentially addictive sedative, but you're naive to believe that they even hear you. People in the depths of narcotic addiction are in a place where reason and prudence have no meaning.
You cannot effectively advise an addict using the language of sobriety. You must speak their language. And theirs is the language of need -- primal, all encompassing, overwhelming need. Telling a Vicodin or OxyContin addict that they must not only quit cold turkey, but must also do it without any meaningful assistance is pointless. They won't do it, so why say it?
I'm interested in results, not ideology. Ideology only works in an ideal world. As to the danger of using Valium for opiate detox, I don't know of a single person who became addicted to Valium by using it for a 5-day opiate detox, including myself. I'm sure they're out there, but everything I know tells me they are exceptions to the rule.
It might strengthen your argument if you suggested an alternative to using Valium -- a widely available, non-addictive substance capable of providing the same level of sedation as Valium. I don't actually expect you to propose one because I know it doesn't exist.
Playing with fire using Valium to get off Vics and Oxys? Potentially, yes. But it is often the only way most of us ever make it out of the hell of opiate addiction.
So, does this mean our engagement is off?
Thomas
Alright sailor, I got the barb about recovering benzo addicts demonizing their ;-) use but I have a few points to add.
*In the world of valium, benzos are considered the toughest to quit. Ask ANY doctor.
*So, why play with fire? If it's for detox, sure, it can make the ride much more pleasant but at what [potential] price?
*It can take years before many cognitive functions are restored. This is medically proven & well documented. I also know this from first hand knowledge.
*Addicts have a tendency to switch poisons. Maybe I'm the only one who swtiched to something I despised because I needed "something, anything". And eventually, I fell in love.
*Valium sits in your pretty little cells for 3 months causing all kinds of angst. When I went c/t from 90-0 my vertigo was gone & once I got my brain back 3 mos. later (no one recommends that kind of quitting but I knew better!) all that mattered to me was that my vertigo was gone. And it was. At that point, business was fabulous, my withdrawal seemed gone & no vertigo. 2 wks. later I was at a mtg in San Jose which was easy & for some long-time client/friends. Guess what started to return real slow? I seriously wanted to throw myself out the hotel room window.
After crawling home, I went to an addiction doc, my ENT & neurologist & they ALL said the vertigo had just been suppressed because valium takes 3 mos. to fully exit the bod & even the addiction doc recommended me going back on it at a much lower dose. And he was TOTALLY anti-drug! I hung on for 2 wks. in full throttle spin cycle, trying to work & finally succumbed. Yes, it worked & I cried that whole first day back.
*Withdrawal is a ***** no matter how you slice it but I feel using valium is not necessary. It's playing with fire. An addictive personality might quit Drug A & find valiunm is better than nothing and...
It took me 8 mos. to detox off 20 mg. a day 2.5 yrs. ago & after it was over...? Not too bad but I did have rebound insomnia, memory blanks, confusion, etc. For valium, when the vertigo was over, my love for valium was over too. I never think about it except with regret. I wouldn't touch it, or any benzo, ever, because I know how much it screws you up & how long it takes you to straighten out.
I do understand & respect your point. I just think, for addicts, valium is too dangerous to even try. It's like an alcoholic who is "just having a beer even though I hate it." RIGHT!
Well, we can agree to disagree, n'est-ce pas?
Barbi Babe
*In the world of valium, benzos are considered the toughest to quit. Ask ANY doctor.
*So, why play with fire? If it's for detox, sure, it can make the ride much more pleasant but at what [potential] price?
*It can take years before many cognitive functions are restored. This is medically proven & well documented. I also know this from first hand knowledge.
*Addicts have a tendency to switch poisons. Maybe I'm the only one who swtiched to something I despised because I needed "something, anything". And eventually, I fell in love.
*Valium sits in your pretty little cells for 3 months causing all kinds of angst. When I went c/t from 90-0 my vertigo was gone & once I got my brain back 3 mos. later (no one recommends that kind of quitting but I knew better!) all that mattered to me was that my vertigo was gone. And it was. At that point, business was fabulous, my withdrawal seemed gone & no vertigo. 2 wks. later I was at a mtg in San Jose which was easy & for some long-time client/friends. Guess what started to return real slow? I seriously wanted to throw myself out the hotel room window.
After crawling home, I went to an addiction doc, my ENT & neurologist & they ALL said the vertigo had just been suppressed because valium takes 3 mos. to fully exit the bod & even the addiction doc recommended me going back on it at a much lower dose. And he was TOTALLY anti-drug! I hung on for 2 wks. in full throttle spin cycle, trying to work & finally succumbed. Yes, it worked & I cried that whole first day back.
*Withdrawal is a ***** no matter how you slice it but I feel using valium is not necessary. It's playing with fire. An addictive personality might quit Drug A & find valiunm is better than nothing and...
It took me 8 mos. to detox off 20 mg. a day 2.5 yrs. ago & after it was over...? Not too bad but I did have rebound insomnia, memory blanks, confusion, etc. For valium, when the vertigo was over, my love for valium was over too. I never think about it except with regret. I wouldn't touch it, or any benzo, ever, because I know how much it screws you up & how long it takes you to straighten out.
I do understand & respect your point. I just think, for addicts, valium is too dangerous to even try. It's like an alcoholic who is "just having a beer even though I hate it." RIGHT!
Well, we can agree to disagree, n'est-ce pas?
Barbi Babe
Your the greatest!I just love reading your posts.You have so much knowledge but you add that bit of humor to make us feel at ease.Thanks for all your great posts.And may we always be blessed with your presence... Jerri
Hey there. Sounds like Thomas has some good advise for ya. But do me a favor, if you do decide to take the Ambien and attend that meeting he was talking about or if ya decide to make a sundae out of yourself, please let me know the day before you take it!! Could be interesting. Just joking with ya, hope ya don't get pissed off at me. Have a nice night my friend.
Jim
Jim
First offZ: excuse my 6 yr. old penmanship & diction, In other wds, my brain & fingers have taken a hiatus.
Like many of us detoxing off fiorinal, we go on Neurontin in the latter detox stages. Having started this aft, I feel positively bloooey. Almost stoned, or when you're hooped both literally & figuratively. So, pardon moi!
My brain is stretching here but apparently it works on your pain receptors to reduce pain (Sounds good enough ;-)reduces headaches, somewhat calms you down, helps you sleep & is completely non-addictive. Seeing how many of my F compadres (I can't even spell it!) have fared, I couldn't help but ask my doc & he was very enthused. Apparently, at the beginning, it causes drowsiness 'n stuff & yes, methinks it does. I've only taken 1 & have 2 more to go today which will no doubt lead me to sing in the rain, even tho it isn't raining.....
*No, I don't take valium & have been off it for 2.5 yrs.
*YES to the Epsom salts. It's magnesium sulfate & from my research, I don't think it matters what kind you get. Do you have the right recipe? If not, let me know & I'll fwd tomorrow.
*I'm around tomorrow & will be working tomorrow night so E.M. me if you wish. Weekend I'm in & out but DO NOT hesitate to give me an e-holler, OK?
*With your attitude, your detox should go very smoothly, even with valium :-) You'll be thru it in no time & do not worry or "wait" for detox to begin. I've made that mistake before & while sorely disapppointed nothing happened when anticipated, I was even sorrier a few days later when it did.
*How many IEEE ppl do you want to bet we both know? We'll fimd out.
*YOU GO GIRL! And for heaven's sake, keep me posted.
Wishing you the best,
Joods
Like many of us detoxing off fiorinal, we go on Neurontin in the latter detox stages. Having started this aft, I feel positively bloooey. Almost stoned, or when you're hooped both literally & figuratively. So, pardon moi!
My brain is stretching here but apparently it works on your pain receptors to reduce pain (Sounds good enough ;-)reduces headaches, somewhat calms you down, helps you sleep & is completely non-addictive. Seeing how many of my F compadres (I can't even spell it!) have fared, I couldn't help but ask my doc & he was very enthused. Apparently, at the beginning, it causes drowsiness 'n stuff & yes, methinks it does. I've only taken 1 & have 2 more to go today which will no doubt lead me to sing in the rain, even tho it isn't raining.....
*No, I don't take valium & have been off it for 2.5 yrs.
*YES to the Epsom salts. It's magnesium sulfate & from my research, I don't think it matters what kind you get. Do you have the right recipe? If not, let me know & I'll fwd tomorrow.
*I'm around tomorrow & will be working tomorrow night so E.M. me if you wish. Weekend I'm in & out but DO NOT hesitate to give me an e-holler, OK?
*With your attitude, your detox should go very smoothly, even with valium :-) You'll be thru it in no time & do not worry or "wait" for detox to begin. I've made that mistake before & while sorely disapppointed nothing happened when anticipated, I was even sorrier a few days later when it did.
*How many IEEE ppl do you want to bet we both know? We'll fimd out.
*YOU GO GIRL! And for heaven's sake, keep me posted.
Wishing you the best,
Joods
Love ya back, lis! Ambien is a non-benzo soporific (sleeper) with some action in the same part of the brain as benzos. A couple reasons why I wouldn't use the Ambien for a cold turkey Vic detox: 1) Since you're not used to them, they're likely to drop you 15 minutes after taking one. If you're detoxing alone, I don't think it's a good idea to drug yourself into unconsciousness. With an in-house detox, you're monitored regularly while under heavy medication. 2) If you take the Ambien and manage to stay "awake", you may experience some very benzo-like amnesia coupled with compulsive behavior that could include all kinds of weird ****. For example, you might walk into a Sexaholics Anonymous meeting stark naked and be carried off after the Serenity Prayer, never to be seen again. Or you might wake up on your kitchen floor, covered in syrup and cherries, having tried to turn yourself into a chocolate sunday. No, really, these things happen to me all the time! Sorry, lisbet, but you know how much I love to kid you ...
Seriously, while we struggling or recovering benzo addicts tend to demonize Valium and its relatives, for short-term purposes such as opiate detox, Valium is really a very safe and effective drug. The recipe recommends Valium over the first 4 to 5 days, with the dosage gradually tapered down to zero. No one is going to get hooked on Valium in 4 days.
Thomas
Seriously, while we struggling or recovering benzo addicts tend to demonize Valium and its relatives, for short-term purposes such as opiate detox, Valium is really a very safe and effective drug. The recipe recommends Valium over the first 4 to 5 days, with the dosage gradually tapered down to zero. No one is going to get hooked on Valium in 4 days.
Thomas
Hi Thomas---whuz up? Good point about the benzos. If and when I ever decide to bite the bullet and completely quit the vicodins, I'll bum some valium from one of my friends. (I've got a bottle of ambiens I've never taken - would those count as a benzo?) You also mentioned clonidine. When I started tapering, one of my buddies mailed me several of these. I think I used them for 4 or 5 days; it seemed like it did lessen the cravings. I have slightly high blood pressure, and my internist has had me on dyazide, which is basically just a water pill. When I went back to see him last time my BP was 150/96, and he said I needed to start taking something in addition to the dyazide. I kinda "suggested" the clonidin, giving the reason that I understood that it has helped people with cravings when they stopped smoking. He's always telling me I need to stop smoking so he gave me a prescription for them. .1 mg once a day. So maybe that's a big plus for me in my quest to one day be completely drug free (or rather, opiate free)...I'm not giving up my prozac!!!...smile. Hope you're doing OK, yourself. I gotta get off my butt and work the rest of the week; this part time **** has made me lazy...smile. Love ya, Lisabet :)
Thanks so much for writing. I'm so glad you enjoyed the Epsom salt baths. I just hope you are taking them correctly!!! They are truly phenomenal & I am the last person on this planet who would ever have thought they'd work. In full detox mode, I was just so desperate....yikes!
Yeah, after I've been soaked, I too feel like a new babe!
Clearly, your son has a remarkable propensity to let it out, however unobtrusively and I applaud mother's who teach their son's to really let 'er rip!
Yes, many of these chaps seem to be rather fetching, n'est-ce pas?
Glad you wrote almost as much as having finally made your acquaintance.
All the very best & take care of yourself!
Dancing
Yeah, after I've been soaked, I too feel like a new babe!
Clearly, your son has a remarkable propensity to let it out, however unobtrusively and I applaud mother's who teach their son's to really let 'er rip!
Yes, many of these chaps seem to be rather fetching, n'est-ce pas?
Glad you wrote almost as much as having finally made your acquaintance.
All the very best & take care of yourself!
Dancing
################
Dancing,
Thanks for the kind words and the support. To better prepare myself for tomorrow and the days to come, I decided to leave work early today. My mind is full of great visions of me being healthy and strong. I am nervous, but I'm really excited, also. You sound very talented. Being an electrical engineer by degree (I also do business development these days), I'm obviously familiar with IEEE and ANSI standards. Thanks for sharing some of your personal info -- I'd share more of my own, but I'm a bit preoccupied today....
As far the detox goes, I'm not counting Valium out yet -- I'll see how it goes. I honestly don't seem to get a high off of them. Lack of sleep will be a problem, so if I really need to take some, I will -- I'm not out to torture myself. I understand VERY well what you are saying, though. When I quit drinking, I used a small amount of Xanax for a few days and didn't crave it at all once I was through the detox.
The thing that I found very helpful was taking a good calcium/magnesium supplement. When I used the right type of supplement (such as CalMax), I could actually feel a difference in my muscles within 30-40 minutes. Don't know if it will help with this wd, but I'll certainly let everyone know (Maybe I can get Sir Thomas to add it to his recipe :). Fortunately for me, my weekend home has a full sized Jacuzzi in the master bathroom -- that will probably be very convenient. I noticed a thread about Epsom salts -- should I try that, also? If so, is there a particular type? -- I'm thinking Epsom salt is Epsom salt so it won't matter -- let me know if there is a certain "type" I should use. I've tried the L-Tyrosine from Thomas's recipe, and it works to clear my mind (I'm not a coffee drinker, so it will come in handy after the main wd). I also have other natural supplements, and plan on pampering myself throughout the next 4 days.
And yes, I would like to hear about your 90-0 Valium detox -- must have been incredible. Thanks for the email address. I hope you are around this weekend. I think tomorrow will be pretty easy for me -- I expect tomorrow night may be a bit tough....but I'm not going to worry about it -- I'm as prepared as can be. I do have an alternate plan in case this doesn't work, but I'm not planning on having to use it -- more about that later. Why are you taking Valium now -- medical reason or are you tapering yourself down from a higher dose? Peace -- I'll let you know how it goes. Take care of yourself -- thank you so much.....
Thanks for the kind words and the support. To better prepare myself for tomorrow and the days to come, I decided to leave work early today. My mind is full of great visions of me being healthy and strong. I am nervous, but I'm really excited, also. You sound very talented. Being an electrical engineer by degree (I also do business development these days), I'm obviously familiar with IEEE and ANSI standards. Thanks for sharing some of your personal info -- I'd share more of my own, but I'm a bit preoccupied today....
As far the detox goes, I'm not counting Valium out yet -- I'll see how it goes. I honestly don't seem to get a high off of them. Lack of sleep will be a problem, so if I really need to take some, I will -- I'm not out to torture myself. I understand VERY well what you are saying, though. When I quit drinking, I used a small amount of Xanax for a few days and didn't crave it at all once I was through the detox.
The thing that I found very helpful was taking a good calcium/magnesium supplement. When I used the right type of supplement (such as CalMax), I could actually feel a difference in my muscles within 30-40 minutes. Don't know if it will help with this wd, but I'll certainly let everyone know (Maybe I can get Sir Thomas to add it to his recipe :). Fortunately for me, my weekend home has a full sized Jacuzzi in the master bathroom -- that will probably be very convenient. I noticed a thread about Epsom salts -- should I try that, also? If so, is there a particular type? -- I'm thinking Epsom salt is Epsom salt so it won't matter -- let me know if there is a certain "type" I should use. I've tried the L-Tyrosine from Thomas's recipe, and it works to clear my mind (I'm not a coffee drinker, so it will come in handy after the main wd). I also have other natural supplements, and plan on pampering myself throughout the next 4 days.
And yes, I would like to hear about your 90-0 Valium detox -- must have been incredible. Thanks for the email address. I hope you are around this weekend. I think tomorrow will be pretty easy for me -- I expect tomorrow night may be a bit tough....but I'm not going to worry about it -- I'm as prepared as can be. I do have an alternate plan in case this doesn't work, but I'm not planning on having to use it -- more about that later. Why are you taking Valium now -- medical reason or are you tapering yourself down from a higher dose? Peace -- I'll let you know how it goes. Take care of yourself -- thank you so much.....
Greetings, my dear. The fact that you don't "like" benzos is actually a good reason to use one during detox. Less chance you'll want it beyond the detox timeframe. Other than a benzo: Phenobarbital in conservative doses would work. Of course, it's Rx. Clonidine, another Rx, helps minimize WD symptoms, but is not a sedative (it's a blood pressure med). As for OTC, for my money, there's nothing. Benedryl might help you sleep (antihistamine). Oh, Atarax, an Rx antihistamine to prevent itching, has considerable sedative properties. Atarax is not a controlled substance and might be easier to get. Of course, you'd have to invent some sort of itching excuse to get it prescribed. Some docs, of course, do prescribe Atarax for short-term sedation and sleep.
Thomas
Thomas
I have quite inadvertently committed a gaff!
Rousseau said (again fitting).
Every man has the right to risk his own life
In order to save it.
Bloody hell. Now I'm going to *have* to find out who said that other one. Surely, not Monsieur Rousseau?
A personal fave (went over better pre 9/11).
Praise Allah, but first tie your camel to a post.
Sufi proverb
Rousseau said (again fitting).
Every man has the right to risk his own life
In order to save it.
Bloody hell. Now I'm going to *have* to find out who said that other one. Surely, not Monsieur Rousseau?
A personal fave (went over better pre 9/11).
Praise Allah, but first tie your camel to a post.
Sufi proverb
I have quite inadvertently committed a gaff!
Rousseau said (again fitting).
Every man has the right to risk his own life
In order to save it.
Bloody hell. Now I'm going to *have* to find out who said that other one. Surely, not Monsieur Rousseau?
A personal fave (went over better pre 9/11).
Praise Allah, but first tie your camel to a post.
Sufi proverb
Rousseau said (again fitting).
Every man has the right to risk his own life
In order to save it.
Bloody hell. Now I'm going to *have* to find out who said that other one. Surely, not Monsieur Rousseau?
A personal fave (went over better pre 9/11).
Praise Allah, but first tie your camel to a post.
Sufi proverb
Congrats on deciding to "go for it" re: codeine. Honestly, I was going to suggest a Thurs. so you could leave early on Fri., giving you a full 5 days but I've never had a "real job" so was unsure as to whether such a move would be construed as P.C. Bravo girl, you are ready to roll!
As to what do I do? Well, sometimes I tell ppl I'm in aluminum siding or that I type - a lot. In truth, I'm a hack writer, or so it feels these days. Prior to that, I started a biz - quite by accident - in Vancouver organizing computer standarads conferences for mostly IEEE & A.N.S.I. I inadvertently specialized in networking (IEEE 802) and Unix, while they were still unworthy of their name...ahem. At that time, no one had heard of FDDI, SCSI, Ethernet, et al & I rec'd all this biz strictly by acclimation. That & the fact there was no competition. Because all my clients & conferences were in the U.S. & me, being me, moved to Silicon Valley for 8 yrs. I traveled far too much, worked even harder, continued to publish, went to a "cool school" in Palo Alto, took writing classes, taught them...you get the picture. Frankly, after about 5 yrs., I was bored & tired & HAD to get back to that writinng thing. Most fortuitously, SCSI & FDDI were in the bag & Unix was going down...so I didn't have to fire any clients & over the yrs., have continued consulting & doing the odd - oh! - mtg for 802. Many of those guys remain very close friends so 'twas not for naught.
So, writing it was & I moved to Orcas Island, in the San Juan Islands for 2 years. It was an amazing experience, barring a not-so-little stalking incident leading to a car accident. Instead of my move-to-be to NY, I had to set up a false trail & literally run, to "escape". Still waiting for my g.card & in very bad shape from the accident (vertigo...this is how I know I know valium!) I sprinted home to Vcr for "just a few mos."
Ah, but life had its way with me! I'd forgotten the 50% taxes &, well, here's an equation:
Canada Neutered Cat
U.S. X
Answer: Cda divided by X = NO passion.
With many a slip 'tween the cup and the lip, that's the long & very short of it.
OK, now I get to lecture you, a sport which I know you enjoy.
Yeah, yeah, Thomas is right about 99.9% of things - only on this board of course - but as far as taking valium, espec. 10 mg. for starteres....FORGET IT! You've already demonstrated "problematic usage" of alcohol, hydros and...(ah, that's enough) you should not be taking it, espec. because you don't need it. Being problematic ;-) makes you more vulnerable to valium, et al & while, no expert on hydros, I'm going to assume they & codeine provided you with not just "mood" enhancing qualities but relaxation as well. Well, valium was MADE for that. Hey, didn't it come out in the early 50's & for yrs. wherein it was widely prescribed for housewives, weary of Shake 'n Bake & ironing sheets? Women still use it far more than men. Sure, it'll make you feel la dee da while detoxing anytime but re: d/ting, if I can go off it without any help, you sure as hell can. 10 mg. is a *lot* for a startwer dose & you'll need more before you get the 2nd syllable of "detox" out of your mouth. And while you're going thru the mildly unpleasant aftermath starting Tues., you'll have every excuse to keep taking it & you will be physically addicted within aa few wks. Yes, I know about that too, only I'm talking 15 mg. a day.
Pull up your pantyhose, girl! With only 4 mos. usage of codeine, this should be very easy or, as I always call such endeavors, "a character enhancing exercise." Give the valium to a friend & if you really need them, don't call her!
Oh, and yes, I did c/t (and succeeded) off 90 mg. of valium a day. You know that book about valium abuse, called, "I'm Dancing as Fast as I Can?" Well, as I oft muttered, "Yeah, well I danced faster." But that slouch author only quit off 30 mg. a day & wound up in a psych. hospital for mos. I mean, brilliantly written tho the boook undeniably is, how can I respect such a slouch? Actually, here's a homework assignment. Read that book this weekend, if for no other reason than it is extraordinarily well written.
You really want to hear about going from 90-0 overnight? My EM is ***@****. BTW, that's also in case you need some on-line support during your detox, or whenever.
Take care & congrats on choosing to quit 8 T3's a day without valium! :-)
And BTW, we're ALL here for you. You're going to lick this puppy w/out valium & then feel *very* proud of yourself. That, I promise.
Best,
Dancing........
As to what do I do? Well, sometimes I tell ppl I'm in aluminum siding or that I type - a lot. In truth, I'm a hack writer, or so it feels these days. Prior to that, I started a biz - quite by accident - in Vancouver organizing computer standarads conferences for mostly IEEE & A.N.S.I. I inadvertently specialized in networking (IEEE 802) and Unix, while they were still unworthy of their name...ahem. At that time, no one had heard of FDDI, SCSI, Ethernet, et al & I rec'd all this biz strictly by acclimation. That & the fact there was no competition. Because all my clients & conferences were in the U.S. & me, being me, moved to Silicon Valley for 8 yrs. I traveled far too much, worked even harder, continued to publish, went to a "cool school" in Palo Alto, took writing classes, taught them...you get the picture. Frankly, after about 5 yrs., I was bored & tired & HAD to get back to that writinng thing. Most fortuitously, SCSI & FDDI were in the bag & Unix was going down...so I didn't have to fire any clients & over the yrs., have continued consulting & doing the odd - oh! - mtg for 802. Many of those guys remain very close friends so 'twas not for naught.
So, writing it was & I moved to Orcas Island, in the San Juan Islands for 2 years. It was an amazing experience, barring a not-so-little stalking incident leading to a car accident. Instead of my move-to-be to NY, I had to set up a false trail & literally run, to "escape". Still waiting for my g.card & in very bad shape from the accident (vertigo...this is how I know I know valium!) I sprinted home to Vcr for "just a few mos."
Ah, but life had its way with me! I'd forgotten the 50% taxes &, well, here's an equation:
Canada Neutered Cat
U.S. X
Answer: Cda divided by X = NO passion.
With many a slip 'tween the cup and the lip, that's the long & very short of it.
OK, now I get to lecture you, a sport which I know you enjoy.
Yeah, yeah, Thomas is right about 99.9% of things - only on this board of course - but as far as taking valium, espec. 10 mg. for starteres....FORGET IT! You've already demonstrated "problematic usage" of alcohol, hydros and...(ah, that's enough) you should not be taking it, espec. because you don't need it. Being problematic ;-) makes you more vulnerable to valium, et al & while, no expert on hydros, I'm going to assume they & codeine provided you with not just "mood" enhancing qualities but relaxation as well. Well, valium was MADE for that. Hey, didn't it come out in the early 50's & for yrs. wherein it was widely prescribed for housewives, weary of Shake 'n Bake & ironing sheets? Women still use it far more than men. Sure, it'll make you feel la dee da while detoxing anytime but re: d/ting, if I can go off it without any help, you sure as hell can. 10 mg. is a *lot* for a startwer dose & you'll need more before you get the 2nd syllable of "detox" out of your mouth. And while you're going thru the mildly unpleasant aftermath starting Tues., you'll have every excuse to keep taking it & you will be physically addicted within aa few wks. Yes, I know about that too, only I'm talking 15 mg. a day.
Pull up your pantyhose, girl! With only 4 mos. usage of codeine, this should be very easy or, as I always call such endeavors, "a character enhancing exercise." Give the valium to a friend & if you really need them, don't call her!
Oh, and yes, I did c/t (and succeeded) off 90 mg. of valium a day. You know that book about valium abuse, called, "I'm Dancing as Fast as I Can?" Well, as I oft muttered, "Yeah, well I danced faster." But that slouch author only quit off 30 mg. a day & wound up in a psych. hospital for mos. I mean, brilliantly written tho the boook undeniably is, how can I respect such a slouch? Actually, here's a homework assignment. Read that book this weekend, if for no other reason than it is extraordinarily well written.
You really want to hear about going from 90-0 overnight? My EM is ***@****. BTW, that's also in case you need some on-line support during your detox, or whenever.
Take care & congrats on choosing to quit 8 T3's a day without valium! :-)
And BTW, we're ALL here for you. You're going to lick this puppy w/out valium & then feel *very* proud of yourself. That, I promise.
Best,
Dancing........
Glad to make your acquaintance, also, Dancing!
I've always enjoyed your posts - I feel like I'm reading Bridgett Jones Diary...smile...you do have a way with words.
Yeah, my son has a way of letting it rip, sometimes unfortunately. I got a call from one of his teachers yesterday telling me he is a bit, well, too much outspoken (a.i.--mouthy)..smile. My ex likes to tell me that I made a mistake by letting him voice his opinions at a very young age...(I'm beginning to think he was right; although I'd never admit it to him....ha) Like most parents, I think I'm not cut out for it, but hopefully he'll turn out half-way decent. As a divorced mom, I realize if he turns out to be a juvinille dequiant (sp) it'll be because of me - if he turns out OK - it'll be in spite of me...know what I mean?....smile. Just can't win... Take care, Love, Lisabet
I've always enjoyed your posts - I feel like I'm reading Bridgett Jones Diary...smile...you do have a way with words.
Yeah, my son has a way of letting it rip, sometimes unfortunately. I got a call from one of his teachers yesterday telling me he is a bit, well, too much outspoken (a.i.--mouthy)..smile. My ex likes to tell me that I made a mistake by letting him voice his opinions at a very young age...(I'm beginning to think he was right; although I'd never admit it to him....ha) Like most parents, I think I'm not cut out for it, but hopefully he'll turn out half-way decent. As a divorced mom, I realize if he turns out to be a juvinille dequiant (sp) it'll be because of me - if he turns out OK - it'll be in spite of me...know what I mean?....smile. Just can't win... Take care, Love, Lisabet
You're welcome. Good luck. I'm 3 weeks off all drugs as of tomorrow and I'm feeling pretty good. As for helping me, you already have. Keep in touch. Let us know how you're doing.
Thomas
Thomas
Thomas - as always great post...(I don't like benzos - so how else do you suggest I calm down and "keep my ass in the house"...smile)
Dancing - have been meaning to tell you - your suggestion about the epsom salt baths was wonderful - I've taken several of them, and come out of them feeling like a new-born babe. Thank you for recommending them.
I LOVE THIS FORUM!!! So many fart smellers...(Oops- I mean smart fellows)...smile. ....forgive me the lame joke - courtesy of my teenage son....heh-heh.
Love you all, Lisabet
Dancing - have been meaning to tell you - your suggestion about the epsom salt baths was wonderful - I've taken several of them, and come out of them feeling like a new-born babe. Thank you for recommending them.
I LOVE THIS FORUM!!! So many fart smellers...(Oops- I mean smart fellows)...smile. ....forgive me the lame joke - courtesy of my teenage son....heh-heh.
Love you all, Lisabet
Dancing,
Sounds like you have a sensible system in Canada -- I basically agree with Thomas's perspective of the US medical system when it comes to substance abuse, but I'd express it a little differently :).... When I quit drinking a couple of years ago, the worst part for me was the first 2 weeks (the first 3 days were the absolute worst). Once I got over the physical part, I really didn't have a bad time staying off of the stuff. Sure, I thought about it, but I realized that I needed to find other ways to chill out -- and I did. Right now, I feel so much better on the 8 30mg codeine tabs per day than I did taking a ton of hydros -- I feel like I have some control over my actions, and I'm in a surprisingly good mood. BUT, I know I have to make the step to NO opiates. I'm thinking of stopping on Thursday -- if Friday is too tough to work, I'll just leave early. I just wrapped up a big project at work, so I'm under minimal stress (working for me is actually "good" stress, but I know I'll need to take it easy for a few days). So, that's what I'm planning on. Hey, if I don't succeed, I can try again -- it took me more than one try to quit drinking.
Hey, are you implying that you went off of 90mg of Valium cold turkey?!?! I don't have a lot of experience with benzos in general, but that must have been something -- what happened to you when you went through that? Tell me about it (if and when you feel like it) -- I'd really like to know (it seems impossible to me). What kind of work do you do, btw?
Thomas,
I'm feeling strong these days because a lot of good things have been happening in my life lately, and I just wrapped up a big project at work. I'm also feeling a lot healthier using the amount of codeine that I'm using now compared to the tons of hydros, etc that I was using. And sure, I have opiates in my system, but there are other factors involved. I know that you guys are trying to prepare me for the worst, and I appreciate it. Emotionally, I do feel strong now and think I should take advantage of that -- or at least try. Physical discomfort bothers me MUCH less when I'm feeling good emotionally. Everyone is different, but I know that I can overcome a lot more physical discomfort when my mind is "healthy".
To both of you: Keep in touch -- you have no idea how much knowing that you guys are there helps me out. No preaching from you guys -- I really appreciate that. Enjoy the evening -- I'll let you know what I decide to do Thursday, but I think I'm going to go for it. Peace and Love....
Sounds like you have a sensible system in Canada -- I basically agree with Thomas's perspective of the US medical system when it comes to substance abuse, but I'd express it a little differently :).... When I quit drinking a couple of years ago, the worst part for me was the first 2 weeks (the first 3 days were the absolute worst). Once I got over the physical part, I really didn't have a bad time staying off of the stuff. Sure, I thought about it, but I realized that I needed to find other ways to chill out -- and I did. Right now, I feel so much better on the 8 30mg codeine tabs per day than I did taking a ton of hydros -- I feel like I have some control over my actions, and I'm in a surprisingly good mood. BUT, I know I have to make the step to NO opiates. I'm thinking of stopping on Thursday -- if Friday is too tough to work, I'll just leave early. I just wrapped up a big project at work, so I'm under minimal stress (working for me is actually "good" stress, but I know I'll need to take it easy for a few days). So, that's what I'm planning on. Hey, if I don't succeed, I can try again -- it took me more than one try to quit drinking.
Hey, are you implying that you went off of 90mg of Valium cold turkey?!?! I don't have a lot of experience with benzos in general, but that must have been something -- what happened to you when you went through that? Tell me about it (if and when you feel like it) -- I'd really like to know (it seems impossible to me). What kind of work do you do, btw?
Thomas,
I'm feeling strong these days because a lot of good things have been happening in my life lately, and I just wrapped up a big project at work. I'm also feeling a lot healthier using the amount of codeine that I'm using now compared to the tons of hydros, etc that I was using. And sure, I have opiates in my system, but there are other factors involved. I know that you guys are trying to prepare me for the worst, and I appreciate it. Emotionally, I do feel strong now and think I should take advantage of that -- or at least try. Physical discomfort bothers me MUCH less when I'm feeling good emotionally. Everyone is different, but I know that I can overcome a lot more physical discomfort when my mind is "healthy".
To both of you: Keep in touch -- you have no idea how much knowing that you guys are there helps me out. No preaching from you guys -- I really appreciate that. Enjoy the evening -- I'll let you know what I decide to do Thursday, but I think I'm going to go for it. Peace and Love....
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