Aa
Question about Pain Management
I've been giving this a lot of thought. Because opiate withdrawal is not life threatening, doctors are handing these things out like candy. Yes, you get that little pamphlet advising you that these drugs can be addictive. The truth is that these drugs were never intended for long term use. I think it would only take a few minutes out of a doctors time to show you a short video of what these drugs can do over prolong use.........addiction and dependence is a very fine line and showing a short video of what one will suffer as a result of prolonged use (watching someone suffer withdrawal) as a possibility may make the patient make alternative choices.
There is no reason that I can see for doctors to be prescribing medications that at one time were strictly for patients on their death beds.........virtually nobody reads those pamphlets anyway, so where does the responsibility lie?.......If you are informed correctly, then your doctor can accept no blame.
Nauty
There is no reason that I can see for doctors to be prescribing medications that at one time were strictly for patients on their death beds.........virtually nobody reads those pamphlets anyway, so where does the responsibility lie?.......If you are informed correctly, then your doctor can accept no blame.
Nauty
I feel invisible on this forum,I guess because I'm new. I've seen my words reused by others and then commented on, but wonder if anyone 'hears' mine. paranoia from narcotics? ha! I agree with everyone's statements, just have had a problem with attitudes. However, as I stated in a previous post, I do appreciate naughty's admission of having sounded judgmental and being sorry for it. I truly appreciate that, as it takes a lot to admit to having been overly critical. Dr.,you bring up an important point, in that, when someone withdraws from a narcotic, pain is increased, and it is often difficult to judge where the pain is coming from. In an earlier post, I described the incident when I was in the hospital, and while there I asked and tried to reduce my narcotics. When asked how my pain was, I told every doctor that it was bad, but I wanted to see if it was from the original source or from the withdrawal response. It was when my pain dr. accidentally localized the pain to a very specific place by moving a leg (accidentally), showing that the pain was coming from one of the most painful original places - SI joint. It is sharp, localized, and severe.The smallest of movement caused extreme sharp intolerable pain to which I responded with an involuntary scream! (I'd been lying motionless in bed til that point). But since then, I've developed other disease states that create obvious, chronic, and progressive pain. My labs, MRIs, CATscans, etc. all paint a picture of someone in pain. Not one doctor has said anything other than what I already do. "Do your best to take the least possible, and take the long acting before short acting". My Pain management doctor has told my PCP that I need to be "treated aggressively for pain, as my condition is progressive and incurable. I can't speak for others. Some don't have that kind of obvious dx., but it doesn't make their pain any less real.
Having said everything I've said in this and previous posts - I believe many many people abuse prescription pain meds. I believe some know they don't need them and seek them anyway, and some, like the Dr. said are no longer able to tell whether their pain is from a pathological process, or the drug withdrawal itself. (which is also pathological - just not permanent) My only point is that NO ONE - not doctors, not friends and relative, and certainly not strangers on the net, can tell how much pain someone else is in. Not just how much pain a person FEELS given the SAME stimulus as someone else - but rather how much actual adverse nerve stimulation a person is experiencing. So many try to make it be about what someone can tolerate. How about realizing that some are just really having more pain than you.
Perhaps its human nature to try to imagine everyone experiencing life the same way you do, but the fact is, just because you've had a broken bone, doesn't mean you know what it feels like for someone else's broken bone. Yours might be greenstick and the other person's a compound open fracture, with crushing and massive jagged exit wound - WITH INFECTION! Kind of like a man saying he knows about child birth because he's had a large bowel movement! Pain is not Pain is not Pain etc. There are degrees. Beyond that, there are differences in the nerve transmission - frequency of impulses, speed of travel, # of nerve endings etc. Then there's the perception of pain with differences in the cognitive experience of pain - which is physiological, not psychological. Lastly, there's a psychological component. With all of these differences, it makes it very difficult for both the doctor AND the patient.
In a perfect world, there would be compassion and using the benefit of the doubt, narcotics given, for a patient presenting with serious pain, followed by giving the all possible alternative coping strategies and therapeutic methods of treating the pain prior to continued narcotic therapy. If proper trials with other methods are tried, and there appears to be a legitimate need, the patient should receive a referral to a pain specialist and treated with compassion and dignity - not as a suspected criminal. Those thought to be abusing the drugs, should be monitored and weaned off if necessary. It is something that should be between the patient and the doctor.
One thing I've never heard of is so many people having no knowledge of narcotic's addictive potential and the distinction between tolerance, dependence, and addiction. The terms are both the same and vastly different. Motivation and intent make them different - NOT the physiological processes. Dosing strengths and frequencies also increase or decrease likelihood of abuse. That's why the warnings to not take more or more frequently than prescribed are on the bottle and in the Rx leaflet.
Check out my profile for those interested. I've been on the MS, GP, Autoimmune and connective tissue forums due to having Systemic Sclerosis w/ Pulmonary Hypertension and Barrett's and Scleroderma Esophagus as well as having osteoporosis, and other forums, but am new to this one. My sympathies go out to all who share my struggle with pain - no matter how you're dealing with it. What's important is that you each find something that works for you.
Thank you naughty for your willingness to listen to others on a topic you're passionate about. And thanks to all on the forum, as I enjoy learning how others are dealing with this terrible issue.
Blessings, Jan
Having said everything I've said in this and previous posts - I believe many many people abuse prescription pain meds. I believe some know they don't need them and seek them anyway, and some, like the Dr. said are no longer able to tell whether their pain is from a pathological process, or the drug withdrawal itself. (which is also pathological - just not permanent) My only point is that NO ONE - not doctors, not friends and relative, and certainly not strangers on the net, can tell how much pain someone else is in. Not just how much pain a person FEELS given the SAME stimulus as someone else - but rather how much actual adverse nerve stimulation a person is experiencing. So many try to make it be about what someone can tolerate. How about realizing that some are just really having more pain than you.
Perhaps its human nature to try to imagine everyone experiencing life the same way you do, but the fact is, just because you've had a broken bone, doesn't mean you know what it feels like for someone else's broken bone. Yours might be greenstick and the other person's a compound open fracture, with crushing and massive jagged exit wound - WITH INFECTION! Kind of like a man saying he knows about child birth because he's had a large bowel movement! Pain is not Pain is not Pain etc. There are degrees. Beyond that, there are differences in the nerve transmission - frequency of impulses, speed of travel, # of nerve endings etc. Then there's the perception of pain with differences in the cognitive experience of pain - which is physiological, not psychological. Lastly, there's a psychological component. With all of these differences, it makes it very difficult for both the doctor AND the patient.
In a perfect world, there would be compassion and using the benefit of the doubt, narcotics given, for a patient presenting with serious pain, followed by giving the all possible alternative coping strategies and therapeutic methods of treating the pain prior to continued narcotic therapy. If proper trials with other methods are tried, and there appears to be a legitimate need, the patient should receive a referral to a pain specialist and treated with compassion and dignity - not as a suspected criminal. Those thought to be abusing the drugs, should be monitored and weaned off if necessary. It is something that should be between the patient and the doctor.
One thing I've never heard of is so many people having no knowledge of narcotic's addictive potential and the distinction between tolerance, dependence, and addiction. The terms are both the same and vastly different. Motivation and intent make them different - NOT the physiological processes. Dosing strengths and frequencies also increase or decrease likelihood of abuse. That's why the warnings to not take more or more frequently than prescribed are on the bottle and in the Rx leaflet.
Check out my profile for those interested. I've been on the MS, GP, Autoimmune and connective tissue forums due to having Systemic Sclerosis w/ Pulmonary Hypertension and Barrett's and Scleroderma Esophagus as well as having osteoporosis, and other forums, but am new to this one. My sympathies go out to all who share my struggle with pain - no matter how you're dealing with it. What's important is that you each find something that works for you.
Thank you naughty for your willingness to listen to others on a topic you're passionate about. And thanks to all on the forum, as I enjoy learning how others are dealing with this terrible issue.
Blessings, Jan
all i'm concerned about is that the few who really need them(and i mean really)get them . It is difficult to listen to people say that nobody should take them after i have been through every possible alternate treatment over the last 18-19 years.
i do not hunt for pills from any sources(like other peoples medicine cabinets, nor the streets). I simply describe my pain to my dr and just want to be helped in a responsible way(for me).
I don't mind at all that people have different opinions to mine, I even defend thier rights to their opinion, but that changes when people start actively campainging to have my quality of life reduced to zero.
I have never said that i think dr's should hand out pills willy nilly.
yes i think they should be available short term to people in acute pain(accident victims, broken legs etc) and long term to people who have EXHAUSTED all other means).
So long as it's explained well and the patients understand the risks etc.
There ARE responsible dr's who prescribe them responsibly to patients who take them responsibly. why make them suffer?
i do not hunt for pills from any sources(like other peoples medicine cabinets, nor the streets). I simply describe my pain to my dr and just want to be helped in a responsible way(for me).
I don't mind at all that people have different opinions to mine, I even defend thier rights to their opinion, but that changes when people start actively campainging to have my quality of life reduced to zero.
I have never said that i think dr's should hand out pills willy nilly.
yes i think they should be available short term to people in acute pain(accident victims, broken legs etc) and long term to people who have EXHAUSTED all other means).
So long as it's explained well and the patients understand the risks etc.
There ARE responsible dr's who prescribe them responsibly to patients who take them responsibly. why make them suffer?
I totally agree that everyone is different on how they deal with pain. Maybe that is the core issue. One person's 4 could be a 10 to another. I am a chronic pain patient and all I am trying to say is eventually you will be cut-off of them and left to find your way. I have days where I can't move my hands, my legs, and my back feels like a 5 alarm fire. I can't work either. I found a way to bring in income where I don't have to go to work, as it would be impossible. I could get government assistance, but choose not to. Maybe I am just being harsh cause I can do it........we are all different, and I am not taking this into consideration and I apologize. I really do. I am a believer that you don't judge until you have walked in others shoes. I just have negativity against these drugs personally and was not taking that into consideration.
Its not all about me. But, I do have a right to my opinions.
I wish you all well.
luv,
Nauty
I stand firm on my belief of these drugs, but truly meant not to judge anyone, and I feel that's the way it came off. I have no right to do that. I do apologize for being so hard headed, but I have seen and heard so much that it enforced these strong opinions.
I hope whatever choices each and everyone of you choose is the best choice and wish you all the best and the quality of life you deserve.
Luv,
Nauty..........
Its not all about me. But, I do have a right to my opinions.
I wish you all well.
luv,
Nauty
I stand firm on my belief of these drugs, but truly meant not to judge anyone, and I feel that's the way it came off. I have no right to do that. I do apologize for being so hard headed, but I have seen and heard so much that it enforced these strong opinions.
I hope whatever choices each and everyone of you choose is the best choice and wish you all the best and the quality of life you deserve.
Luv,
Nauty..........
"That is another difference between addicts and those who take responsibly. We try everything we can to not have to take the drug, while addicts try everything they can to obtain the drug. That is not a fine line to me. "
Touche' Audrea.
Touche' Audrea.
Obviously some people just don't understand until they have debilitating pain, and I mean debilitating. It sounds like some disagree because they have pain issues, but not to the point to where they cannot function. Until you have been in that situation it is just too hard to understand. If there is a way to get by without meds, then great, by all means do that and live a healthy life. But, at the same time, don't knock on someone else who has to take meds just to get up and function. And to say there is a fine line is kind of way off base. There is a huge line and one can take that kind of leap if they have that mentality or addiction potential. And to say everyone becomes addicted if they take addicting medications is way off base as well. There is a huge difference between addiction and dependance. Of course one would become dependant after taking a narcotic after any length of time. That is just natural. It doesn't mean you are bad for having a hard time coming off the meds. It's your body's way of telling you it is so used to the drug and will have to adjust when it is gone. That would go for many drugs. Just like with steroid therapy. After taking it for even a short amount of time at a cerain dose you have to taper off of it. That is why the medrol dose pack is the way it is.
Everyone has the right to their own opinion, it's just wrong when imposing it on others, especially when ill-imformed and very short minded. Just because one person can handle their pain in certain ways does not mean everyone else can. It also goes to say that everyone handles, processes, and tolerates pain at different levels. A pain level of 4 for me can be a 10 for someone else. I had a c-section and did not take anything for the pain after 12 hours. I still hurt, but I could handle it. It compared nowhere to the pain I felt after spinal fusion x2. I also had an umbilical hernia repair over a year ago. I was fine. I took a little percocet on the day of the surgery for about 24 hours, then only otc after that. Others had to have pain meds for days afterwards. Before the surgery I was on heavier narcotics, but took myself off about a week before. When it came time for surgery I was okay. It was not near as bad as I thought it was going to be.
I have been through too much and It is not worth explaining this to someone who has not dealt with this for so long, if in that position I am sure her mind would be changed. In the beginning I did not take pain meds like I do now. I could handle it in other ways as well. But when your quality of life is challenged to the point you would rather not live, I am sure there would be some changing of thoughts. I hope that day never comes for you. Good luck to you and I do hope you can manage what pain you do have non-narcoticly, as we all know, that is the best way to go if you can. I don't know how many times I have taken myself off meds just to see if I could handle it.
Suffice it to say, I couldn't.That is another difference between addicts and those who take responsibly. We try everything we can to not have to take the drug, while addicts try everything they can to obtain the drug. That is not a fine line to me.
Just thought I would add my 2 cents in.
Audrea
Everyone has the right to their own opinion, it's just wrong when imposing it on others, especially when ill-imformed and very short minded. Just because one person can handle their pain in certain ways does not mean everyone else can. It also goes to say that everyone handles, processes, and tolerates pain at different levels. A pain level of 4 for me can be a 10 for someone else. I had a c-section and did not take anything for the pain after 12 hours. I still hurt, but I could handle it. It compared nowhere to the pain I felt after spinal fusion x2. I also had an umbilical hernia repair over a year ago. I was fine. I took a little percocet on the day of the surgery for about 24 hours, then only otc after that. Others had to have pain meds for days afterwards. Before the surgery I was on heavier narcotics, but took myself off about a week before. When it came time for surgery I was okay. It was not near as bad as I thought it was going to be.
I have been through too much and It is not worth explaining this to someone who has not dealt with this for so long, if in that position I am sure her mind would be changed. In the beginning I did not take pain meds like I do now. I could handle it in other ways as well. But when your quality of life is challenged to the point you would rather not live, I am sure there would be some changing of thoughts. I hope that day never comes for you. Good luck to you and I do hope you can manage what pain you do have non-narcoticly, as we all know, that is the best way to go if you can. I don't know how many times I have taken myself off meds just to see if I could handle it.
Suffice it to say, I couldn't.That is another difference between addicts and those who take responsibly. We try everything we can to not have to take the drug, while addicts try everything they can to obtain the drug. That is not a fine line to me.
Just thought I would add my 2 cents in.
Audrea
if there's one thing I can agree with you on Nauty(and Amy) it's that dr's are rushed for time. that's bad no matter what.
Nauty - you seem to think that I have taken the easy way out. boy oh boy are you wrong.
I was doing those excercises in my teens, 45mins twice a day. I also took anti-inflammitories like you do. I also did massage therapy, chiro, physio, osteo, hydrotherapy, had bone scans, cat scans, mri's, went to pain clinics(multiple),ruematologists, surgical consults,TENS,and every single other option i could think of.
and my life was hell. most of that had happened by the time i was 20. i struggled for about 6-7 years more with virtually nothig but OTC meds. i was mostly bed ridden. sometimes upto 24hrs a day, usually 18-20hrs. and the hours i was up i could do no more than goto the toilet and eat a small meal.
part of my pain comes from degenerative issues, which means it's getting worse.
I was unable to work since the age of 19, and it's still deteriorating at age 32.
without narcotics I would be an absolute cripple.
and you think that's acceptable.
I don't. my meds don't allow me to have a proper life, but at least i can do some things around the house and go out occasionally.
you would deny me that?
take care y'all
Nauty - you seem to think that I have taken the easy way out. boy oh boy are you wrong.
I was doing those excercises in my teens, 45mins twice a day. I also took anti-inflammitories like you do. I also did massage therapy, chiro, physio, osteo, hydrotherapy, had bone scans, cat scans, mri's, went to pain clinics(multiple),ruematologists, surgical consults,TENS,and every single other option i could think of.
and my life was hell. most of that had happened by the time i was 20. i struggled for about 6-7 years more with virtually nothig but OTC meds. i was mostly bed ridden. sometimes upto 24hrs a day, usually 18-20hrs. and the hours i was up i could do no more than goto the toilet and eat a small meal.
part of my pain comes from degenerative issues, which means it's getting worse.
I was unable to work since the age of 19, and it's still deteriorating at age 32.
without narcotics I would be an absolute cripple.
and you think that's acceptable.
I don't. my meds don't allow me to have a proper life, but at least i can do some things around the house and go out occasionally.
you would deny me that?
take care y'all
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