Aa
Hemangiosarcoma tumor found in gum line
My 12 1/2 year old dog was operated on 1/23/08 and a tumor was found covering his bottome teeth on the gums. They removed 4 of his little teeth. (I first noticed the tumor 1/4/08) the oncologist does not believe all was removed due to the biopsy stating scant margins. We were trying to get him strong enough to start chemo on 2/14, but to his lack of eating he will not be able to. We started him on Tramadol 50 mg 2-3 per day on 2/6. He would pant so hard and his heart was racing. The vet thought he was in pain so we began the medicine. That did subside a lot, but then for days he would stand for hours, try to sit or lay down and immediately get back into the standing position. He also did not want to walk (which is loved), but now seems to want to most of the time, but obviously not as far. After 2 days of standing that subsided. He is now more relaxed, sleeping a lot but also restless at night. He does eat, but not a lot. One day he'll like roast beef then the next day won't touch it. This is happening often. We just try whatever we can and at all different hours. When he does, he acts like he is starved. I also notice he seems like he can't get enough water. We have to walk him much more often.
On 1/28 x-rays were done of his heart and lungs and an unltrasound was done of his kidneys, stomach, liver and spleen all were clean. I do understand that microscopic cancer could be in the blood not seen in tests.
The oncologist thought the cancer spread to his brain due to his behavior. I'm not so sure only due the constant changes he is experiencing.
Are these types of changes common? Not wanting to eat or be very picky, not wanting to walk then wanting to, common in this cancer? I also am curious if there is a certain area the cancer will spread to since it was found in his mouth? Everything I read says this is so uncommon to be primarily found in the mouth and there is no info on this.
Thank You
On 1/28 x-rays were done of his heart and lungs and an unltrasound was done of his kidneys, stomach, liver and spleen all were clean. I do understand that microscopic cancer could be in the blood not seen in tests.
The oncologist thought the cancer spread to his brain due to his behavior. I'm not so sure only due the constant changes he is experiencing.
Are these types of changes common? Not wanting to eat or be very picky, not wanting to walk then wanting to, common in this cancer? I also am curious if there is a certain area the cancer will spread to since it was found in his mouth? Everything I read says this is so uncommon to be primarily found in the mouth and there is no info on this.
Thank You
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
Dog congnitive dysfunction is the same as doggy alzheimers. Anipryl can help with that. But there are also Chinese herbal combinations that are effective. Please keep us informed!
P.S. I forgot to list the Chinese herbal combo called: Yunan Piayo. This is an important formula for hemanigosarcoma. This is also available online or in a Chinese herb shop.
P.S. I forgot to list the Chinese herbal combo called: Yunan Piayo. This is an important formula for hemanigosarcoma. This is also available online or in a Chinese herb shop.
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
O.K. I have more questions for you.
Was there any pain or behavioral abnormalities prior to the surgery on 1/24/08?
Was there a problem with eating and inappetance prior to the surgery?
Why did you switch from Hills W/D diet? And, did you switch before or after the surgery?
The fact that your dog had a history of colitis is significient, and an exacerbation of your dog's colitis could be responsible for the vomiting and diarrhea. If your dog won't eat the W/D any longer than Tylan powder, or other colitis medication should be added to whatever current diet he will eat.
The pain from surgery should have subsided by now. And, if he did not have pain prior to the surgery than I wonder what is causing pain now? This may take a bit of medical detective work. I don't think the Tramadol is causing the behavioral problems since he developed the "stare at nothing" behavioral problem prior to be given the Tramadol. The heavy breathing could also be anxiety, behavioral, or loss of control of the breathing center in the brain (from cancer metastisis to the brain), but whatever the reason, if the Tramadol helped with the heavy breathing and panting, than he should continue taking it. Tramadol's "good" side-effects cause it to act as a mild antidepressant and anti-anxiety medication. Tramadol's "bad" side-effects cause nausea and vomiting and neurological problems, but in your dog I don't believe that the neurological problems are due to Tramadol. But you will have to determine if the Tramadol is contributing to vomiting or diarrhea by doing a time chart.
His behavioral abnormalities sound like Cognitive Dysfunction (doggy senility).
If the cancer has reached an area in your dog's brain such as the hypothalamus, his drinking and eating behavior could be altered. The hypothalamus controls body temperature, hunger, thirst, fatigue, anger, and circadian cycles. Circadian cycles in simple terms, regulate sleeping at night and being awake during the day, among other important functions, which also seem to be altered in your dog.
My advice is to treat all his symptoms to keep him as comfortable as possible. This could include Anipryl (a cognitive dysfunction medication), Reglan or other anti-nausea medication, pepcid (for the GI), Tylan (for the colitis), and others in a protocol orchestrated by your dog's oncologist and vet, since this is quite complex.
If you are interested in alternative medicine, you can use ginger capsules for your dog's nausea, and there are holistic chemotherapy agents that may help if it isn't too late such as PolyMVA, and Blood Root extract, available online. Please do a search.
Please also try to find a vet in your area that practices holistic medicine. You can check out the American Holistic Veterinary Medical Association website and do a search for a vet in your area. I have had some success with holistic therapies in patients when all else has failed.
Was there any pain or behavioral abnormalities prior to the surgery on 1/24/08?
Was there a problem with eating and inappetance prior to the surgery?
Why did you switch from Hills W/D diet? And, did you switch before or after the surgery?
The fact that your dog had a history of colitis is significient, and an exacerbation of your dog's colitis could be responsible for the vomiting and diarrhea. If your dog won't eat the W/D any longer than Tylan powder, or other colitis medication should be added to whatever current diet he will eat.
The pain from surgery should have subsided by now. And, if he did not have pain prior to the surgery than I wonder what is causing pain now? This may take a bit of medical detective work. I don't think the Tramadol is causing the behavioral problems since he developed the "stare at nothing" behavioral problem prior to be given the Tramadol. The heavy breathing could also be anxiety, behavioral, or loss of control of the breathing center in the brain (from cancer metastisis to the brain), but whatever the reason, if the Tramadol helped with the heavy breathing and panting, than he should continue taking it. Tramadol's "good" side-effects cause it to act as a mild antidepressant and anti-anxiety medication. Tramadol's "bad" side-effects cause nausea and vomiting and neurological problems, but in your dog I don't believe that the neurological problems are due to Tramadol. But you will have to determine if the Tramadol is contributing to vomiting or diarrhea by doing a time chart.
His behavioral abnormalities sound like Cognitive Dysfunction (doggy senility).
If the cancer has reached an area in your dog's brain such as the hypothalamus, his drinking and eating behavior could be altered. The hypothalamus controls body temperature, hunger, thirst, fatigue, anger, and circadian cycles. Circadian cycles in simple terms, regulate sleeping at night and being awake during the day, among other important functions, which also seem to be altered in your dog.
My advice is to treat all his symptoms to keep him as comfortable as possible. This could include Anipryl (a cognitive dysfunction medication), Reglan or other anti-nausea medication, pepcid (for the GI), Tylan (for the colitis), and others in a protocol orchestrated by your dog's oncologist and vet, since this is quite complex.
If you are interested in alternative medicine, you can use ginger capsules for your dog's nausea, and there are holistic chemotherapy agents that may help if it isn't too late such as PolyMVA, and Blood Root extract, available online. Please do a search.
Please also try to find a vet in your area that practices holistic medicine. You can check out the American Holistic Veterinary Medical Association website and do a search for a vet in your area. I have had some success with holistic therapies in patients when all else has failed.
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
I am so sorry that your dog has hemangiosarcoma.
Did the unusual behavior begin when your dog was placed on Tramadol? Tramadol is a medication that can cause neurological symptoms.
Unfortunately, it could have nothing to do with the Tramadol and the cancer could have spread to the blood vessels to the brain as the oncologist believes.
Inappetance often occurs with cancer, such as eating roast beef one day and ignoring it the next. The most important aspect of any anti-cancer treatment is to keep the patient eating. However, your dog is exhibiting a lot of bizarre behaviors which I can only explain by too high a dose of Tramadol, or the cancer spreading to the brain. But, the only definitive way to diagnose brain cancer is with an MRI.
I am sorry to say that he does not sound as if he has a consistantly good quality of life at this point. I would attempt either lowering the dose of Tramadol or eliminating it and see if his neurological problem subsides. If the pain returns that also means he has a decreased quality of life, but you can try another analgesic.
Since hemangiosarcoma is a cancer of blood vessels it can occur anywhere in the body that has blood vessels. The mouth is a very vascular organ with lots of blood vessel, so it isn't hard to imagine hemangiosarcoma occuring there. I can't predict where it will occur next if it spread, but I believe that other parts of the mouth are most likely. It is not difficult to imagine a spread to the brain after occuring in the mouth.
The changes you are describing are not common. Weakness and inappetance are common with hemangiosarcoma but not bizarre behavior.
Did the unusual behavior begin when your dog was placed on Tramadol? Tramadol is a medication that can cause neurological symptoms.
Unfortunately, it could have nothing to do with the Tramadol and the cancer could have spread to the blood vessels to the brain as the oncologist believes.
Inappetance often occurs with cancer, such as eating roast beef one day and ignoring it the next. The most important aspect of any anti-cancer treatment is to keep the patient eating. However, your dog is exhibiting a lot of bizarre behaviors which I can only explain by too high a dose of Tramadol, or the cancer spreading to the brain. But, the only definitive way to diagnose brain cancer is with an MRI.
I am sorry to say that he does not sound as if he has a consistantly good quality of life at this point. I would attempt either lowering the dose of Tramadol or eliminating it and see if his neurological problem subsides. If the pain returns that also means he has a decreased quality of life, but you can try another analgesic.
Since hemangiosarcoma is a cancer of blood vessels it can occur anywhere in the body that has blood vessels. The mouth is a very vascular organ with lots of blood vessel, so it isn't hard to imagine hemangiosarcoma occuring there. I can't predict where it will occur next if it spread, but I believe that other parts of the mouth are most likely. It is not difficult to imagine a spread to the brain after occuring in the mouth.
The changes you are describing are not common. Weakness and inappetance are common with hemangiosarcoma but not bizarre behavior.
The tumor is coming back. I just looked in his mouth and it is evident. The biopsy did not indicate all the turmor was removed.
I did try to get an appt., but they wanted to see his history first.
My vet did look at his mouth and will be calling me today.
I did try to get an appt., but they wanted to see his history first.
My vet did look at his mouth and will be calling me today.
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
If the tumor had been removed in it’s entirety than the surgical site should have healed by now. Absorbable sutures take 2 months to dissolve and sometimes have to be removed. So, yes, the tumor may have grown back at that site. I would have your vet examine the surgery site.
Could your regular vet contact the holistic vets for you or give you a referral? Sometimes that helps to expedite things. Or even better just make an appointment with the closest one, so he or she (the holistic vet) does not feel as if you are just looking for free advice.
In the meantime get Yunan paiyo, and Hoxsey formula, both available online and start asap at a human dose and frequency of administration. Good Luck!
Could your regular vet contact the holistic vets for you or give you a referral? Sometimes that helps to expedite things. Or even better just make an appointment with the closest one, so he or she (the holistic vet) does not feel as if you are just looking for free advice.
In the meantime get Yunan paiyo, and Hoxsey formula, both available online and start asap at a human dose and frequency of administration. Good Luck!
I'm sorry I forgot to add that when he had the tumor removed they used disolveable stitches? Wouldn't the area be healed by now since the surgery was 1/23?
Thanks
Thanks
This morning I noticed blood and it being raised a bit and red in the area where the tumor was removed 3 1/2 weeks ago. It is not bleeding a lot, but when you touch it with a cotton pad, the pad will have blood on it. Also, when he goes to bite himself there is some blood on himself. We are putting ice in his water to keep it cold to help to clot and if it is throbbing. He is acting good. Is it possible to have the tumor come back in the same spot? If it is, what can we expect? I have read that some dogs with cancer will act perfectly normal up to the end, is that true? He is eating and only long 1/2 pound. He is still finicky and being fed by hand but is eating!
I tried to contact Holistic vets in a 100 mile area, but 3 out of 3 did not return my emails and calls.
Thank you.
I tried to contact Holistic vets in a 100 mile area, but 3 out of 3 did not return my emails and calls.
Thank you.
The only behavioral abnormality was sometimes tripping. When I first noticed the growth 1/4/08 until it began to bleed 1/18 you would not have know anything was wrong with his mouth. After it began to bleed, which it did stop and then only did it spot bleed, did he chew on his back teeth. He went on the antibiotic 12/18 and a few days after that did he stop eating his dry wd, but still would eat the can wd if doctored. On 1/3 I took him to the vet due to his lack of eating(the growth did not appear until 1/4), the vet took blood and a urine test. When the results came back the vet wanted him on KD. I tried this but never got past giving him 1/4 kd and 3/4 wd. I also had to doctor it up a lot. I tried once or twice to increase the kd and he got diarrhea.
Sam was rescued at 6 months old. He was quite ill. He had kennel cough very bad and mange. He was throwing up pflem and was put on ID. When he was about a year old he started to have blood in his stools. Sometimes quite bad. We put him on the WD. He loved it and we only had a few bouts with blood in the next 11 years. 90% of his diet was the WD, we also gave him some dental bones. I baked the WD into biscuits for him.
Sam has had many surgeries in his short life. He ruptured both his ACL's and had TPLO surgery in both knees. He certainly is no wimp and I know when he is in pain. After his mouth surgery he practically pulled the vet asst. arm off to get to me. The vet did not sedate him a lot. I picked him up 1 1/12 hours after surgery.
He has been on pepsid since 1/4, but since he won't take it on his own now if he sees it in the cheese he won't eat it . I'll keep trying!! He was on Cerenia for the vomiting, but it was not to be long term.
So far today he has not gotten sick and was barking at the thunder before. He is now peacefully sleeping and snoring in his bed.
I will check into the holistic medicine. I will also look for a vet in the area.
The oncologist thought the cancer went to his brain, but since he has not shown any signs of the standing and staring and the heavy breathing and panting since 2/8 I can't believe this is true. I had asked if he possibly had doggy alzheimers. I am very familiar with the disease in people. My previous dog lived to 14 1/2 and he certainly had senility.
I thank you very much for your help and I will pursure this your suggestions.
Jane
Sam was rescued at 6 months old. He was quite ill. He had kennel cough very bad and mange. He was throwing up pflem and was put on ID. When he was about a year old he started to have blood in his stools. Sometimes quite bad. We put him on the WD. He loved it and we only had a few bouts with blood in the next 11 years. 90% of his diet was the WD, we also gave him some dental bones. I baked the WD into biscuits for him.
Sam has had many surgeries in his short life. He ruptured both his ACL's and had TPLO surgery in both knees. He certainly is no wimp and I know when he is in pain. After his mouth surgery he practically pulled the vet asst. arm off to get to me. The vet did not sedate him a lot. I picked him up 1 1/12 hours after surgery.
He has been on pepsid since 1/4, but since he won't take it on his own now if he sees it in the cheese he won't eat it . I'll keep trying!! He was on Cerenia for the vomiting, but it was not to be long term.
So far today he has not gotten sick and was barking at the thunder before. He is now peacefully sleeping and snoring in his bed.
I will check into the holistic medicine. I will also look for a vet in the area.
The oncologist thought the cancer went to his brain, but since he has not shown any signs of the standing and staring and the heavy breathing and panting since 2/8 I can't believe this is true. I had asked if he possibly had doggy alzheimers. I am very familiar with the disease in people. My previous dog lived to 14 1/2 and he certainly had senility.
I thank you very much for your help and I will pursure this your suggestions.
Jane
It sounds like your dog is in a whole lot of pain. All that restlessness and bed spinning is likely a result of pain. Tramadol is OK for mild to moderate pain, but I can't imagine it touching the pain of cancer. With these kinds of fast and short-acting meds, you end up with peaks and valleys of relief and increased pain as the pill wears off. Ask your vet if the fentanyl patch is an option at this time. A small area of hair is shaved on the back (where the dog can't reach it) and the patch is stuck on the skin. It delivers a constant and controlled dose of pain medication for 3 days. You could still use occasional tramadol for breakthrough pain if necessary.
Also ask about something for the nausea. Right now you want to keep him as comfortable as possible. I'm so sorry, but it sounds like you're nearly at the end of his life, and it's time to take a serious look at his quality of life. I just went through a similar ordeal, and know how awful it is to have to make that last decision. :-(
Also ask about something for the nausea. Right now you want to keep him as comfortable as possible. I'm so sorry, but it sounds like you're nearly at the end of his life, and it's time to take a serious look at his quality of life. I just went through a similar ordeal, and know how awful it is to have to make that last decision. :-(
Sam started the Tramadol at 8:00pm 2/6/08. On 2/7 he had 3 / 50 mg pills, 2/8 he had 3 / 50 mg pills, 2/9 he had 3 /50 mg pills, 2/10 he had 2/50 mg pills, 2/11 he had 2/50 mg pills and on 2/12 he had 1 / 50 mg pill. I stopped them to see if his behavior changes for the better.
His unusual behavior started at 5:00 pm 2/6 when he would just stare at nothing. Then he began the heavy panting and very heavy breathing. The medicine did finally stop the panting and heavy breathing. The staring and standing for hours lasted until Friday, 2/8. That afternoon we took him to the park and he laid down on a towel to watch the birds etc. 2/9 and 2/10 we took him for rides and he was doing much better.
What we are dealing with now is still the finicky eating. He will finally eat, but after many attempts. He sometimes acts starved, but has rejected food for hours. He is drinking excessively. Usually a bowl of water could last an entire day, now it could last for 4 hours. He soiled his bed the other night, which he never did before. We now get up in the middle of the night to let him out. He seems restless at night also. He seems to change his sleeping area all night long. He use to conk out at 8:00 pm and sleep to 5:30 am . He will walk and seems happy, but we did cut him back. He does like to sniff for animals and occasionally will bark at something. He also will stumble when he is walking. I always look to see if something is there, but there never is.
When we had blood work done 1/4/08 it showed his bunn levels fine, but his urine was watery and the vet thought he could be early kidney disease. There were a few other slightly elevated areas in his blood work. The next blood work done 1/22 showed his levels fine, but we did not do a urine test. The vet said in an older dog (12 1/2) his blood work could be different day to day.
Sam was on WD for 11 1/2 years due to colitis and I was wondering if the constant change in food could be causing the diarrhea and vomiting? He was vomiting since the beginnoing of Dec and we thought it was first his stomach being empty since ithe vomitting is always first thing in the AM and then he went on an antibiotic the middle of Dec due to ripping out a nail. We found if we gave Sam just a bit of food before his first walk he would not throw up. When he started the antibiotic is when he became very finicky eating and would vomit again in the AM even with a little food. I'm not sure if it was all a coincidence?
The diarrahea has subsided and his stools are a better color but very small. His vomiting is usually first thing in the morning. It is either during his walk or just after his walk. We have limited his water after his first walk incase this upsets his stomach after the walk.
What type of analgesic could we try if we needed too?
Thank you so much.
His unusual behavior started at 5:00 pm 2/6 when he would just stare at nothing. Then he began the heavy panting and very heavy breathing. The medicine did finally stop the panting and heavy breathing. The staring and standing for hours lasted until Friday, 2/8. That afternoon we took him to the park and he laid down on a towel to watch the birds etc. 2/9 and 2/10 we took him for rides and he was doing much better.
What we are dealing with now is still the finicky eating. He will finally eat, but after many attempts. He sometimes acts starved, but has rejected food for hours. He is drinking excessively. Usually a bowl of water could last an entire day, now it could last for 4 hours. He soiled his bed the other night, which he never did before. We now get up in the middle of the night to let him out. He seems restless at night also. He seems to change his sleeping area all night long. He use to conk out at 8:00 pm and sleep to 5:30 am . He will walk and seems happy, but we did cut him back. He does like to sniff for animals and occasionally will bark at something. He also will stumble when he is walking. I always look to see if something is there, but there never is.
When we had blood work done 1/4/08 it showed his bunn levels fine, but his urine was watery and the vet thought he could be early kidney disease. There were a few other slightly elevated areas in his blood work. The next blood work done 1/22 showed his levels fine, but we did not do a urine test. The vet said in an older dog (12 1/2) his blood work could be different day to day.
Sam was on WD for 11 1/2 years due to colitis and I was wondering if the constant change in food could be causing the diarrhea and vomiting? He was vomiting since the beginnoing of Dec and we thought it was first his stomach being empty since ithe vomitting is always first thing in the AM and then he went on an antibiotic the middle of Dec due to ripping out a nail. We found if we gave Sam just a bit of food before his first walk he would not throw up. When he started the antibiotic is when he became very finicky eating and would vomit again in the AM even with a little food. I'm not sure if it was all a coincidence?
The diarrahea has subsided and his stools are a better color but very small. His vomiting is usually first thing in the morning. It is either during his walk or just after his walk. We have limited his water after his first walk incase this upsets his stomach after the walk.
What type of analgesic could we try if we needed too?
Thank you so much.
You are reading content posted in the Animal Health - General Forum
Members of our Pet Communities share their Halloween pet photos.
Has your pet ever swallowed your prescription medicine? Vet tech Thomas Dock explores the top 10 meds that harm pets and what you can do to prevent a tragedy from happening.
Like to travel but hate to leave your pooch at home? Dr. Carol Osborne talks tips on how (and where!) to take a trip with your pampered pet
A list of national and international resources and hotlines to help connect you to needed health and medical services.
Herpes sores blister, then burst, scab and heal.
Herpes spreads by oral, vaginal and anal sex.
