"autistic" traits but no diagnoses......

[mich97]

I posted here a little while ago about my son and the neurologist appointment..how she told me she did NOT think my son was on the spectrum or had pdd..the more i read here the more i question and wonder if she was wrong..
am i over thinking and going crazy??
my son has a language delay (expressive/receptive) has made huge progress since starting preschool/speech.he is VERY<VERY active and has a hard time attending, he has sensory issues (i'm told mild????) he likes to rock while watching tv,he use to cover his ears at school when the kids sang, now he sings w/ them..he has been sensitive to noises like notice the sound of the fridge and comment to shut it off(doesn't do anymore)..last year he use to like the sound of the toliet and practicaly stick his head in the toliet and copy the noise every time he flushed..his sensory issues seem to go away then a new one pops up..the latest one that makes me wonder is he likes to watch the microwave count down and beep (he makes the beeping noises too) today he had a little friend over i was in the kitchen,they were in the play room. well, he left his friend he was playing w/ just to come out to the kitchen and watch the microwave and make the beeping noise w/ it  & he laughs after then goes back to his friend(he never did that before)..the other day at the grocery check out he was making the beeping noises the register was making every time it scanned something..he's been to the store many,many times and has never done that before...one therapist mentioned auditory processing disorder??? is that why he likes to make the noises?? it's some type of sensory noise(input) he likes/needs?? this is all confusing to me..
he is almost 5. is very social, does better w/ kids younger..his language skills are behind and may not always get the chit chat going back and forth w/ his peers..his energy level is high and some times he can't shut the "off" switch and may annoy kids he is playing w/..when he plays he does like to crash and bang the toys  a lot..he transitions fine.. he does not have rigid routines/ likes etc etc...he has soo many strengths i think is why the neurologist did not give the diagnoses..but i think he has some "autistic" like traits...my husband gets annoyed w/ me and says," how many specialist do u need to go to before u believe he's not on the spectrum"...i still can't help but wonder...i feel like us mothers know when something is not right..i have 2 other children and don't worry about them (just so u know i'm not this nervous nutty mother)

his preschool teachers are sped teachers and he has had many evals and NOONE has ever mentioned autism to me..ALL i get is he's a puzzle..would they mention autism if they were thinking?? his ped. said no to autism and i had to push for the neuro consult..i feel frustrated not knowing, and almost if he had a "name" or reason for his delays/ quirky behaviors it would be a relief and then i could move on...

my son will be going full day kindergarten,getting his speech,OT and pulled for any extra help he needs..do i go and get a second opinion and w/ whom? will a diagnoses even matter b/c he is getting services already??  or see where the next few years takes us??

[Sally44]

If you are worried about him being teased about Thomas you can always reserve it for indoors.  I don't think its fair to remove things because peers are not playing with them.  Afterall Thomas is very educational.
My son also continues to try to participate in play with varying degrees of success.  
The Play Therapist's report said that my son is usually passive (ie. not initiate), but that he does sometimes initiate and when he is approached by other children he complies and joins in the game.  His difficulties start when (a) he cannot process all the chit chat going in and therefore cannot keep up with the pace of the game (b) he may not understand his role within the game (eg. the children may want him to be a good dragon, but he wants to be a bad dragon), (c) he seems unaware of this inability to change/adapt his role causes the play to break down or for the other children to get annoyed with him and he continues trying to play eventhough his role does not 'fit' with the groups storyline for the game and (d) he takes alot of cues from the other players in the game and follows what they are doing, but sometimes there is no understanding of 'why' he is doing it and therefore he again fails in his role within the game.
I also put alot of his difficulties down to his speech delay and speech disorder, which I think to some extent is true eg. if he can't communicate at the same speed/level as his peers of course he is going to have difficulties with play/social interaction.  My son also takes cues off other children and 'follows' what the rest are doing.  At present your son is 5.  If that behaviour continues then I think it would constitute difficulties with social communication/interaction.  It is very difficult to wait, but sometimes that is the only option as your son will either develope this skills sufficiently or not.

[mich97]

i don't think i've ever heard that expression "pull your socks up" i probably would have pulled mine up too hahahha..yes, he is still a bit on the young side to take a literal interpretation..i can say it does flucuate w/ him..example the other day it was pouring rain here..i said, "it's raining cats and dogs" and he looked at me w/ an odd look then smiled and told me i was "silly"..another time i asked him "what are u waiting for a street car" he asked me "wheres the street car" (expression we use when someone is stalling/taking their time) but he says "lets get outta "hair" like a bald man" ???
the thomas thing is hard b/c yes i do notice his peers same age have moved on from thomas..he is getting better at his variety of toy/play choices but he still loves thomas.
I think his imagination is fine..He can adjust while playing w/ other kids but it's hard w/ his language delays to do the back and forth chit chat..he'd then may put some crashing/falling/chasing into the story line (b/c he would not need the "novel" language skills) He had a friend over age 5 (9 months older then him) and i really observed him playing w/ him and his older brother and older neighborhood friends....He actually did very well, one who didn't know my son would never pick out he was delayed...they may say he has a lot of energy can be wild!!!    I however did notice when they were all playing a game on the trampoline, called aligator, my son did not understand the rules..i notice even if my son does not understand play,games the kids are playing he still particapates and tries to play along by taking cues or copying what they are doing..
i think it's going to be an interesting journey..i think i have to be at peace for now that even w/ no diagnoses, and "your son is a puzzle" that i am doing every thing i can for my son. speech/ot/extra help services at school..see where the next few years takes us.....

[Sally44]

Yes, I too like to plan.  I have often wished my son had come with a manual!
Regarding Thomas.  I'm not sure I would agree with the professional.  Infact I have heard the opposite advice many times.  Use what they like to interact.  Forget about immaturity.  If it works use it.  I had another mum with the same problem.  She was concerned that peers made fun of her son because he still played with Thomas.  So she just reserved them for play within the family.
You can still make up stories using Thomas trains eg. like disaster movies!
I got rid of a load of Play Doh (thinking not age appropriate), and have now re-introduced it (recommended by OT) because you can use it in so many learning opportunities.
So do you think he has a lack of imagination?  My son can sometimes struggle following the imaginary game of others.  He doesn't seem able to adjust his role within the game quick enough.  He also takes alot of cues from friends and copies what they are doing (this is good because at least they are noticing and copying).  Sometimes he plays with children at other times he appears to be playing alongside.
Also talking about getting too big for Thomas.  His response showed a 'literal' 'concrete' interpretation of what you had said, which can also be a communication difficulty in autism.  But having said that he is also still very young and literal/concrete interpretation of language may be normal for his age, I am not sure.  For example in the classroom the teacher says to everyone 'you all need to pull your socks up'.  Autistic boy literally pulls up his socks (takes a literal interpretation of what has been said).  Then teacher may send him to the Head for making fun of her.
Good Luck with review.

[mich97]

thanks for the response..Yes it is so confusing where my son has some "autistic traits' w/ the senory issues and language delays. he also has many red flags for adhd too..a "fruit salad" mixture of traits is a good way to describe it..he doesn't have enough and have so many strengths is probably why they have not diagnosed him on the spectrum..he is very social and interested in playing w/ other kids..he doesn't always "get" the social chit chat going back and forth but he still plays, and tries to participate as much as possible..he's great at running around, being active w/ them but if there is a game or imagination play i notice some peers get frustrated w/ him b/c he doesn't understand, or if they are playing trucks/guys my son has so much energy he is always wanting to crash his toys into his playmate or might be too rough/wild..i notice he can tend to follow around his little playmate and copy  what they are doing in play at times..
last year he did have a hard time w/ transitions (age 3) but this year it is soooo much better..of course he may protest for a min every once in a while but nothing like his tantrums last year..
he really doesn't have any obsessions..he really likes thomas the train and has since age 2..at almost age 5 i notice that a lot of his peers have moved away from thomas..i don't know if it's a maturity thing?and w/ his delays? i have kept away from playing trains w/ him(per request of a therapist) b/c there is not a lot of chit chating we can do playing trains..he is fine playing something else i suggest ie rescue heroes,power rangers,coloring,play doe etc etc..i do feel bad sometimes b/c i know he really likes thomas and i did say one day "you're getting to big for thomas" his response was "mom, i can make my hand smaller" so that did break my heart a little..
we do have his yearly check up coming up soon...i guess i could see what he says and it may be that we have to see where the next few years take us...it is so frustrating b/c i am a planner and i want to know exactly what is going on w/ my son so then i can grasp it and feel like i have more control to help him..

[Sally44]

I have read from your other posting the possiblity of ADHD.  Again I would say, read up about ADHD.  There tends to be alot of diagnosis that cluster around eachother and children sometimes have no definate diagnosis of one condition but almost end up a fruit salad mixture of traits from a number of conditions.  For example my son is autistic spectrum disorder, sensory integration differences, severe communication disorder including echolalia, aspects of dyspraxia, aspects of executive function problems.  But I would also say that as well as considering ADHD, seeking continual movement can also be a sensory thing.

[Sally44]

He may well have some autistic traits and I do recognise some of the things you say.  I would say, for now, it might be an idea for you to read what the actual criteria is.  If there is an organisation such as National Autistic Society or a parent support group that might help you get a better understanding by talking with parents and seeing how their kids interact.  There are alot of autistic behaviours that are part of normal development, that is why sometimes you have to wait to see if they move on developmentally.  I think around age 7 is a milestone because they are able to test some functions that should be there by then.  If they don't develop as their peers, this doesn't mean they are not as clever as their peers, it just means that they are developing along a different route and as they do so differences between age related peers will become more obvious.  For example all children do not understand the concept of time.  By around age 9 (I think?), children are expected to understand this concept.  Alot of people with autism/aspergers do not have a good understanding of time, but the difficulty with time will vary from child to child.
If you do have a gut feeling I would say read as many books as you can about autism, especially by those on the spectrum themselves.  As you say your son has alot of sensory issues I would recommend a book by Olga Bogdashina called Different Sensory Perspectives in Autism and Aspergers.  I found this really useful in understanding behaviours.
My son is verbal and echolalia.  He also uses alot of noises in his communication.  These are noises he has heard and copied.  In some way 'noise sounds' are just as important to him as words.  His expressive language is appropriate for his age (7), his receptive language is age 3.  Sensory differences are not just how the sensory information is received (ie. child can appear over sensitive (cover ears) or under sensitive (appear deaf) to stimulus or may even not recognise stimulus), but it is also how that is perceived/interpreted and how it is communicated to other systems within the body.  So it really is like the internal wiring system.  For example if a child appears clumsy there are alot of senses involved eg. visual, tactile, vestibular, proprioceptive and if one of those systems are not responding correctly it will impact on the 'whole picture'.  If there are difficulties getting information clearly through one sense, other systems may try to compensation or cause the child to rely on a second sense to 'double check'.  Eg. if visual sense is affected there may be alot of touching, tapping (checking through tactile sense), or whooping shouting noises (checking environment through auditory sense).
My husband is also the type to just 'leave it and let it be'.  And to some extent that is a good balance to me when I am continually searching for answers, like you.  I would say try to get a balance, you have got the whole of his life infront of you.  If you have a gut feeling I would say mention it to the professionals.  So far you have mentioned sensory issues (which can be part of the spectrum or can be a diagnosis on their own), you have also mentioned social awkwardness with peers.  He is young and may develop out of it.  I think it is important whether he can chit chat with you or peers, or is his talking only to get what he wants.   When he plays is he unable to accommodate the storyline of other children or does he expect them to do exactly what he wants.  Is he not understanding how to interact appropriately and that is annoying the kids he is playing with.  Where he doesn't have difficulties ie rigid routines transitions etc, you need that as well to get a diagnosis.  My son also does not have rigid routines, but he does have difficulties with transitions and he does have slightly narrow interests.  He does like lots of things, but he isn't curious about his surroundings as other children are (does not chit chat) and he would not play with a child if he was not interested in the game.  Other children are able to 'pretend' to like a game just to be able to socialise and play with someone. Does your child have any obsessions eg. subjects he is extremely interested in to the exclusion of everything else.  These obsessions can be hobbies, or repeatedly watching the same DVD and the object of the obsession can change frequently.  
Crashing and banging toys can be age appropriate (a boys thing), but if he continued to do this and was not playing with toys in the considered 'normal' way ie. playing with bits of toys, lining up toys, repetitive actions with toys, or just re-enacting what he has seen on TV with toys and found it difficult to include other children into his rigid play, or couldn't join others play because he did not know what was expected of him, then those are better indications.
So, although it is hard, learn what you can, mention it to professionals, and then wait and see how he gets on at school.  If he does have problems it will become more noticeable as he gets older.

[mich97]

that was weird,for some reason a whole paragraph got cut off.. just to add(again) my son does have some quirky behaviors that made me worry,,some of his sensory issues seem to to come and go...last year he liked the sound of the toliet and copied the noise every time he flushed (doesn't do anymore) he seems to be bothered my noisey areas, but is able to settle in after a while..
the new one is he likes to watch the microwave count down then he copies the beeping noise..at the grocery store the other day at the register he was copying the beeping noise every time it scanned something...he's been to the store many times and has never done that before..sometimes he copies the sound of the phone ringing...one speech therapist mentioned auditory processing disorder but said he's too young to test????
he does this thing were he rubs his hands up and down his leg....he does have many strenghts like i said but i can't help but wonder about these behaviors...