3 year old circle time problems / not listening at preschool

[Sashamom]

My daughter will be three in two weeks.  She had gone to preschool two days a week for two hours since this past Sept.  She refuses to sit for circle time and is disruptive.  The teacher's aide has resorted to holding my (struggling to break free) child during circle time.  She only follows directions when she chooses to listen.  I don't know what to do.  

The teacher have asked if an early interventionist could come see my child at school.  So I sat in class out of site and observed.  My child behaved until circle time came.  The teacher's aide held her to keep her in the circle and prevent her from disrupting others.  After circle time she played well with other, but after hand washing for snack she sprung from the bathroom and pushed three kids.  Then at some point before leaving she began running around the classroom, not listening to the teachers when they told her to stop.  Finally, there was a second circle which was cut short.  My child wouldn't sit, but neither would other children at this point.  My child spotted me watching her and ran to me, I quickly told her to sit in circle because I didn't like her behavior and she sat in circle in her spot and listened until class was over!!!!  I don't know what to do.  

I don't want the interventionist to work with my daughter in class because I'm aware of tracking and labels put on children.  I made an appointment with a clinical social worker to help us with her behavior.  My husband and I are trying to improve discipline at home, but part of me just says she's 3.  Three year old do this as they are learning to deal with the world.  But if her behavior is so different from most kids in class, is there a problem.

I can homeschool if necessary,  but I want her to be part of a school environment.  Would love any advice.    

[sharonl727]

Thank you so much for you wonderful wisdom on this very subject.  I am a preschool teacher and was so tired of reading the negative comments from everyone about taking the child from the school.  Most early childhood professionals can pinpoint issues early on, especially if they are experienced and well trained and to assume these teachers are not is unfair.  Again thank you.

[sharonl727]

Thank you so much for you wonderful wisdom on this very subject.  I am a preschool teacher and was so tired of reading the negative comments from everyone about taking the child from the school.  Most early childhood professionals can pinpoint issues early on, especially if they are experienced and well trained and to assume these teachers are not is unfair.  Again thank you.

[Sandman2]

Sashamom posted a long time ago.  But, if you read through the other posts below hers, you will find lots of good ideas.

[cathielisa]

I am interested in your strategies that you are using with your daughter to achieve a positive outcome for her.We might need them as well

[specialmom]

I do hope part of your formal education is learning about the various things that challenge a child in the traditional classroom such as sensory.  The 'tools' to make a child conform are not always what is necessary but rather getting to the root (as in your screen name) of what is causing the child to not participate as the other kids.

I know that in today's education environment, there is a lot of continuing education around this area and understanding kids better.  

The bottom line is that for my own son, it wasn't the teachers fault nor my son's fault. He had sensory integration disorder and the task was daunting for him.  Working on his sensory issues and then working with the teachers to better understand it in order to help him ultimately is what it took for him to be able to acclimate to the classroom and things like circle time.  He's now 10 and has not a single problem at school.  But he also has had teachers every year but one that is trained in understanding the challenges some kids face.  That helps so much and makes for a much better teacher.  

[mss_root]

I agree with ahelpfulteacher. Many of these comments are opinions and not backed with the proper education. I am a Child Development Major studying Early Childhood Behavior. From what you wrote sashamom it sounds more like the teachers are the ones that have a problem and not your child. Circle time is an important part of a Preschoolers day and should be a part of the curriculum, however there is a right and wrong way to approach it. The fact that the teachers are forcing her to sit tells me they don't have the tools to get to her to sit properly and it is their inadequacy not your child's. It was good that you got a second opinion. Please be careful with who you are seeking advise from.

[Sandman2]

   Guru has not posted in two years.  I doubt that he would respond.  The best way to check out a pre school is to visit it and watch the kids and teachers and then talk to the parents as they pick up their kids.   And, by the way, writing skills is one of the last things that I would be concerned about.

[annaliisa500]

I desire to decide that Phoenix preschool for my baby where he could learn writing skills by means of six character writing program. Is it a great agenda? Stipulation yes than please provide me contact detail of best preschool.

[mom1920]

Thanks..I will take Occupation therapist appointment

[specialmom]

Oh, sorry.  We went to an occupational therapist for evaluation.  Call around and ask for sensory integration disorder experience.  We've had tremendous success with occupational therapy and I highly recommend it!

[mom1920]

Thanks for responding. The question is how do we determine what the child is suffering from..will a Occupational therapy help or should i go to child psychiatric...Really tired of the complaints from school and handling my son on daily basis..He does not listen to a single thing told by us..

[specialmom]

Hi there.  We had the exact same problems in preschool with my own son.  Ugh, I feel for you.  I dreaded what each day at school would bring.  

My son was diagnosed with sensory integration disorder.  What a blessing this diagnosis was because it helped me understand what was going on.  And we were able to do things that helped him.  By addressing things when he was in the preschool years, he was much better able to cope and be successful when he started elementary school.  

Things that helped in school was giving my son choices.  Lots of choices. Such as:  do you want to sit on the carpet spot next to Mary or do you want to pull up a chair next to the teacher?"  He will cope better if he feels he has some control.  If it is his turn to pass out napkins for snack "do you want to pass them out or do you want me to?"  If it is time to walk to music "do you want to walk by Jonny or do you want to walk by teacher?"  

He should be given a healthy amount of physical activity.  He needs to be climbing, running, jumping, rolling down hills and running back up, swinging, etc.  This is very key to helping a child maintain themselves in school. AT school, they should have some go to things he can do when he gets wound up, is wandering, etc.  This would be taking two other kids and have them do leap frog down the hallway.  Have all the kids do some animal walks such as crab, leap frog, bear.  Have him 'help' by carrying some books for the teacher or moving a table.  When walking to the playground, have the kids march with their feet slapping the ground with impact.  While this may sound goofy, it helps tremendously.

He should have a 'cool' down spot in the classroom that he can go to when he starts to feel upset.  This is a safe place where he can go to calm down.  When he starts to look upset say "you look upset, maybe your cool down spot will help."  Under a table, in a corner, a small pop up tent, a bean bag chair, etc. are all good cool down spots.  He can also have 'helping hands' on the wall.  Use finger paint and have him make his hand prints on them.  When he is starting to rev up, tell him to find his helping hands.  Then he presses his hands against them (they should be placed at his level on the wall and you could do the whole class so he isn't singled out)---  and he pushes hard against them.  This slows the nervous system.

That is the thing, his nervous system may be out of whack.  I would look at this site "sensory processing disorder" and see what you think.  If it connects at all, get back to me.  I have lots of suggestions.  

Sleep is tricky for a sensory kid.  Lots of activity (physical) during the day helps.  Then you can begin his bed time routine.  Make it calming.  Dim lights, warm and cozy.  Before bed, provide some deep pressure such as holding him tightly while you rock him or have him lay face down on the floor and rolling an exercise ball over him with pressure or placing pillows on him and pushing down with pressure.  Very soothing.  You can also look into a weighted blanket which really helps some kids sleep.  Even a weighted lap pad placed on his chest may help.  

good luck

[mom1920]

He will be turning 4 in 4 months...He will not listen to me as well his dad and will do whatever he likes...The teacher tell us that he disruptive and does not listen even for time out he will laugh and run away..Also he does not like to sleep..Sleeps very less making him sleep is a very big task for us.we are very tired and helpless ...how do we get him things done the way we want..he knows he is wrong and he will also repeat that he will listen is school but when he goes there he repeats all the things again

[Sandman2]

   When is his birthday and how old is he?  Also does he have the same problems at home?

[mom1920]

My son has been in school for 9 months. We had to change his school because we will get calls from school everyday regarding his behavior. Not sitting, running, hitting, spitting, Not listening, not sitting for time out and laughing at teacher and showing its funny. Does not like transition. Focus is very low only for 2 minutes for a activity. In the second school it has been a month and we are very facing the same problem. Not sure whom to approach ..if no schools take him how will he learn. I am very concerned

[tiredbuthappy]

about language- speak your native language at home. Children need to learn 1 language, their home language, thoroughly. He will learn English at school. You can increase his exposure to english through playgroups and such if you want, but continue to speak your other language at home. However, the evaluators are correct in that you do need to make sure you speak to him properly in complete sentences at home. If you use only labels and baby talk, then that is all he will learn.

Regarding his behavior at school- it may be due to the fact that he is so young, although he does show some signs of sensory issues and that was my first thoughts before I even saw you mention them. The good news is that he is very young still, and adding therapies at home by you and OT by professionals will make a tremendous difference- you will be amazed by the changes. Be sure to ask for activities you can do at home. Also, you can suggest the teachers try to direct him to certain activities at school. In the past some of the sensory kids I worked with had fantastic days if I gave them a sensory activity in the morning (sand or water play; play doh, finger painting, etc). That positive impacts of that one activity would carry over through the rest of the day.

Don't be afraid of having an OT evaluation. Either they will say nothing is wrong or they will be able to help your son.

Back to language- i do not expect my students who do not understand english to sit through a story. So, I make modifications for them. I add puppets, voices, actions, etc to help draw them in (which then exposes them to more language and helps them get interested and learn). I would make sure that the teachers are making efforts to help him learn english. We will also try other tricks like having an adult sit near the child to help redirect, seat the child directly in front of the reader so he can see the pictures better, etc. You may also want to ask the teachers for the names of some of the books they plan on reading the next week. Perhaps if you go them from the library and looked at them in advance you can help him learn some of the ideas and vocabulary so it's not as overwhelming for him.

[snoofy]

Can u please let me know the progress of ur kid becausce my son has exactly same problems as u did.He started preschool 3 months ago .He speaks indian language at home.He is 2 year 5 months.He is totally opposite of what he was at school.At home he is defiant , naughty  and loves sitting without moving when I read books and keeps on asking please  read one more book, loves doing jigsaw puzzles if I sit with him,can play with cars ,trucks,construction vehicles for any amount of time without me being there and narrates his play .He has very good memory and relates and interprets very good. He is very oral at home too.He keeps everything in his mouth but never swallow even a minute piece.If we say not to do something he likes to do that but neither agressive or wild.

He goes 2 days a week for 2.5 hrs.He doesnt sit in the music. sits for sometime and runs in the middle to press piano keys or goes near chairs at the corner of room  and sees wether  teacher comes to take him back to circle.He has the habit of running to the hallway of school sometimes or not going in line but checks wether teacher is coming to get him.He climbs on blocks table and when the teacher says no he doesnt listen.
He keeps everything in his mouth at school.While in the music initially he used to observe a lot  but he got better and imitates what they are doing but not as much as other kids.The teacher says he needs constant redirection and works only on one on one.He is not exposed to english sentences before going to school  or neither understands them but he knows words.
He has movement patterns such as running and walking on tippy toes not all the time, or flapping movements while running.She says he has  difficulty with modeling behavior, modeling play, or pretend imaginary play.  He does not appear to be interested or seem to grasp any part of it.But at home he does pretend.The teacher says  he has difficulty processing, and following what the other children are doing; and, prefers to do his own thing.

I got him evaluated from the govt, and they got him  observed with a parent teacher consultant who came to class and observed him.They said he is not having stimulation and his english is not on par with other kids( all are english speaking kids).He is not having the support of me saying the sentences in our language while reading books.When he doesnt know the language they say he cannot  be expected to sit continously.His language,cognitive,problem solving ,proocessing all are ahead for his age
They disagree with them and thinks he is having sensory issues and strongly think an outside occupational therapist should come and see him.
I have checked the checklist and noticed he keeps thing in mouth,does have little bit texture problems but  can swallow and chew other than that I didnt see any major things.

Please pour in ur experiences and suggestions.

[tiredbuthappy]

Hi!
First off, you are VERY lucky to have what appears to be a great preschool teacher with reasonable expectations. Everything she told you is true and correct, although so many teachers would have you on the phone daily. I encourage you to give it more time, and continue to have open communication with the teacher. She is right that for many kids, this is "normal" behavior. Of course, it doesn't mean that problems may emerge later on (we never have that guarantee) but it shows that she has reasonable expectations for a 2 year old.
At home, I would try to engage him in a variety of activities. Often, children who are not read to at home every night have trouble sitting for circle because they do not understand or appreciate books. Try to limit his TV, and keep it to programs directed at preschoolers (no spongebob, superheros, etc... for this age). Give him toys that encourage creative play and interaction- blocks, play food, play doh, animals, etc. Play with him and model appropriate interactions when it comes to personal space and such. Finally, I would try to arrange for play dates with one other child at a time to slowly get him used to interacting with kids his age. You can ask the teacher if she can think of anyone who would be a good match. Often, children who have not had too much exposure to peers will act wild when thrown into large groups with a lot of sensory stimulation going on.

[motherof2nj]

My son will be 3 in a month. He is first born and up until a few months ago, was an only child. This past summer we started noticing some behavior issues when socializing with other children at a mommy and me fitness class. He appeared to not understand personal space of other kids, thus other kids who were all a little older never wanted to play with him. As a result, we enrolled him at summer camp for 3 days a week for 2 weeks at the preschool he was scheduled to attend in the fall. At first he did great- loved socializing with other children his own age. Then we had an issue with him non-maliciously hitting another child with a car and getting sent to the time out chair.  The preschool teacher at camp said that this behavior was expected from children this age a s they are testing their boundaries. Regular preschool twice a week started in Sept. and we have only had positive reviews from the school. Our concern about my son's behavior came at the Halloween concert that the preschool had for parents. All of the children were required to stand in the circle, sing the songs twice and then introduce themselves as who their costume was. My son was one of the only ones who seemed to never sit still, he would run around, try and get other kids to play, and seemed to want to constantly be center of attention. One of the teachers had to have him sit on her lap so that the other kids could have a turn to introduce themselves. My husband and I were appalled at his behavior, both of us wondering if he is ADD or ADHD, as at home he acts nothing like that. After the concert, I approched his teacher and asked her is he was always this disruptive. Her response was that she would never call a 2 1/2 - 3 year olds behavior "disruptive" - that that age group has some very high energy kids and my son is one who has very high energy. She said that they look at the positive's of high energy kids in that at clean up time, they are usually the ones who put the most away. She also said that preschools (or at least our preschool does) take cirlce time in steps and that they don't expect kids to sit through circle time, but strive to make progressive steps (based on the child) throughout the year in order to increase the amount of time kids can sit in the circle. As a parent it was a relief to hear from his teacher that they do not consider him a behavior problem, however my husband and I still worry about his behavior. Earlier this week when I picked him up from preschool he told me that he had to sit in the time out chair for hitting a girl with a car. He knows that it's wrong, yet he still does it. I don't know if this is a high energy behavior or a socialization behavior? At home, he is great, he shares with his little brother and is so gentle with him. But with other children at school, (from what we obsereved at the concert) he took toys from the other kids and seems out of control. Any suggestions on how to improve socialization issues or if his problem could just be considered a high energy issue?

[tiredbuthappy]

Hi lovingmomm.
I just saw your post now. Because you had written on an old thread, it may be overlooked. I would suggest you start a new thread, but will add some comments here.

First off, to me, it does not sound like there is anything wrong with your daughter. I am a preschool teacher and have worked with young children for over a decade. We try to get kids to sit for circle, we tell them it is expected, but honestly it is normal and not uncommon for a child, especially a young 3 year old who is still learning English. So, what we would do if your daughter were in our classes, is make accommodations. If her teacher is unwilling to try accommodations then I would consider another school. This is not special treatment, but rather modifications that make learning easier for all of the children (your daughter and the rest of the class). Here are some things I would try before deciding that there was something "wrong" with your child
~ give her a special job (such as counting how many children)
~ try different spots. Some children do best when sitting directly across from the teacher while others do better right next to the teacher. Some children who physically cannot sit still will be seated in a chair. Others need a teacher's assistant sitting right beside or behind them with a gentle hand on their back. Some children still need that assistant to actually gently stroke the back or hair to keep them focused.
~Some children need something in their hands like a stuffed animal or stress ball.
~And some children simply are not ready to sit. NAEYC and ECERS both tell teachers that they have to make accommodations for children who are not ready to sit in circle time.This is especially true for a 3 year old classroom.

Since your daughter is an ELL (english language learner), she may need additional modifications. This is NORMAL and EXPECTED, and I would expect the teacher to understand this and make the modifications. For my ELL's (and honestly all the kids) I make sure my circle times are interesting and exciting. I make them WANT to sit. We sing songs and do rhymes. I always have something interesting to talk about. Young children and EL's like songs and routine, as it gives them security and helps them learn the language. When I read stories, I try to make sure I use animations and voices, and whenever possible I use props.

I am guessing that the teacher makes all of the children sit. She probably does the weather and calendar every day, and then counts the children. Your daughter is zoning because it's boring and irrelevant to her. And she doesn't understand it because it is a foreign language.

I suggest you look for a different kind of program. I would look for an NAEYC accredited program or any program that advertises itself as being "developmentally appropriate" or "child-directed." A well-run Montessori might work as well. You need a program that takes in to account the interests and varying levels and abilities of young children. Avoid any program that has 3 or 4 year olds sit and do worksheets or has more time spent in circletime and structured activities than in "free play" or "interest area" time.

[allmymarbles]

"I don't know what to do."

You can let her grow up. She is just a baby. And tell that dumb teacher to stop grabbing the struggling kiddie. "Circle time," whatever that is, hardly sounds that important.

[lovingmomm]

Dear specialmom,

I think i really need your help and advice. My daughter just turned 3 and having trouble with the circle time at her preschool. She has no problem with other art activities, and outside play though.

She has attended school for 8 days now, 2 days a week.

She has been speaking Bengali (an Indian language), and I never trained her in English, hoping she would pick up from school. Well, she has started understanding the language now from school, but she tries to escape the circle times. First few days, she wouldn't even sit, she was just roaming around the classroom. On one day, she sat, and was asked to count the number of students, and she did it (that was one fortunate day!)
But last 2 days, she managed to sit in the circle but did not participate/respond to the teacher when asked a question.
And when it is story time, she is not paying attention, looking around/elsewhere when the teacher is reading (this is not the case at home, she loves listening to stories, and even sits for 30 minutes when I read to her and explain the stories in Bengali).

Sometimes (at school) it seems she is in her own world, and not noticing whats going on around her (this is not at all the case at home, she is very responsive every single moment).
Sometimes she is just roaming around the classroom, and the teacher had to yell "come here" to get her to sit in circle.
Could it be because of the school environment, there is so much stimuli, so she is behaving that way?

Another thing we noticed about her behavior  is, she does not like being touched by people she hasn't known well enough. She loves to be cuddled by me, my husband, and some of our relatives. But she feels very uncomfortable and reacts when anyone unfamiliar pats or touches her. However she has no problem if any kid touches her, its a problem only with new adults.

I must add here that she hadn't been to any school/daycare earlier, and had never been left alone with anyone else other than me(her mom), our social life had been very poor and she hadn't been with too many people around her except for 2 short vacations that we took. So I am not able to figure out if it is separation anxiety, or if this is because of less social interaction, or is it because of a new language that she is still in the process of learning, or is it sensory integration issue.

My pediatrician says she will outgrow it, but her teachers points out those behavior and I am very concerned.

We are planning to put her in a special needs school where they have a therapy clinic, (but I guess that us going to be expensive and on private pay) is there anything else that you can point me to. We moved over to California from India just a couple of months back and still trying to figure out what to it. I would really appreciate any advice you can offer!

warm regards!
a mom

[Relaxed8808]

My son is three and is very hyper! I know he doesn't have ADHD because he sits and watches tv when something he likes is on. Other than watching nick jr tho or eating he is go go going! He also has fits about EVERYTHING that doesn't go his way. I've done time out and tryin to make him look at me... And well pretty much everything!!! He also attends daycare and just to argue a bit, daycare is a very good thing for children 1 and up in my thoughts. How are they going to learn social skills and make the transition to school as easy as possible? If you wait til they are past three to start teaching them behavioral and social skills it will only make things more difficult. Every child is unique and different in their own way and these teachers are just trying to help find a coping skill BEFORE they start school so that it isn't so hard on them when that transaction comes. I have recently learned something that has made everything so much easier on me and my child. I learned that he is very sensitive to peoples emotions around him. Even if we think we are hiding our personal stress from them we are not. I noticed a HUGE improvement on my son the past 2 weeks just from calming down everytime I start to feel my emotions coming. Just be happy and enjoy these stages. They will be gone before you know it. I agree that it's very hard when they are always going or talking and repeating everything they say 5 million times. But when they won't listen just sit them down, drop to where you are eye to eye and level, and talk to them calmly until they calm down. The first couple times it took me 45-60 min to get him to stop screaming and crying like I was beating him just because I was making him sit down in a chair (which is really embarrassing in public when they do this because you get scared of a secret cps worker jumping out and tackling you thinking you are abusing them) but it gets shorter everyday and it only took him a little less than a week and now I barely have any fits out of him and my stress level is as low as it's ever been. Now I get to be one of those mothers that is proud when it's not "my child" throwing the fit in church or walmart :) feels great! Hope I could help!! Just remember that you would rather have a child that does more than a child that never does anything :):) hang in there and realize how many people have a hyper 3 year old like you. You are a great mother because you are researching what is in the best interest of them!!!!

[guru2010]

bbug2008,

I'm no expert, but it does sound like there is two problems: 1) communication and 2) misunderstanding about the relationship between speech and behavior. For #1, I would try to talk to the teacher on a daily basis to get a sense of both the "good choices" and the "sad choices" that your son is making. I would also talk to other parents to see if they are hearing similar things. It may be that it's only with a particular teacher or is the environment in general. If there is a way for you to observer your child (without being noticed), that would be ideal. For #2, you should be able to find plenty of information on the internet to support how hearing and speech can result in behavior issues. In our preschool, it was common for the teachers to say "use your words". If he can't use his words well yet, it's logical that he will be frustrated and may act out.