Should I take a prenatal paternity test?

[leilawednesday]

I am confused, stressed, worried. I am 5 weeks pregnant. The first day of my last menstrual cycle was December 25. I had sex with my husband on Jan 8 and 9th (day 14 and 15 of my cycle; during ovulation). I had sex with someone else on Jan 11th, but he had a vasectomy done 6 years back. I am leaning towards getting a non-invasive paternity test done, to be absolutely sure.
Has anyone got a NIPP done? Was it accurate and worth the exorbitant price?
This other guy has had a vasectomy. What are the chances of that failing?
What are the chances on me getting pregnant by the other guy on day 17 of my cycle.
Thanks so very much for your advice.

[leilawednesday]

I feel like I am back to being confused. I will call Ravgen tomorrow to ask 1. If they have testing facilities nearby 2. If can do discrete dna testing so i can also test my husband. If yes to both i will go with Ravgen rather than DDC.

You are absolutely right —-if day 17 tests negative on the paternity test I’ll never know for sure unless my husband tests positive. Alternatively it’ll have to be the paternity test and sperm analysis. That’s foolproof, right? In the event that they can’t do discrete testing.

I read online that vasectomy reversals are very rare after checking the sperm after the 6 month -20 ejaculations period. Even if the vasectomy naturally heals, his sperm count is very unlikely to have got me pregnant. The doctors gave me 1-2% chances to conceive naturally. Only 15% with IVF. Also day 17 didn’t come in me, but I realize that still might not matter. I had sex with my husband on the 8th and the 9th. With day 17th on the 11th.  

What is your opinion about at home spermcheck kits. There’s a post vasectomy kit. Wondering if I could ask him to do that.

It’s very hard to wait.

[AnnieBrooke]

I think you need to let this all settle until at least after your ultrasound. You're lucky Mr. Day 17 is willing to test. Don't make things sound odder with talk about home sperm check kits or he really will convince himself that you're going nuts. And besides, think of it -- how sure would you feel if he came back and said he did one and his results were 0?

[AnxiousNoMore]

The lab sperm tests require him to ejaculate then deliver to the clinic within a certain time, so isn't it possible that he could have a friend who had a vasectomy that works collect semen for him and pretend it was his?
fwiw.

[leilawednesday]

Would a sperm analysis be as definitive? If it shows that he has swimmers then we’ll have to do the paternity test anyway.  Without insurance the sperm analysis comes to 250. And if I end up needing to do both it will be over 2000 !!! :(

[AnnieBrooke]

I sent you a private message, you should be able to find it by clicking on your user name.  

Regarding cost, you're looking at having an abortion if things are wrong, and that is a big deal. In your shoes, I'm not sure I'd want to live forever with the what-ifs if I didn't do things the most sure way.

I assume you're doing CVS sampling because of your age?

[AnnieBrooke]

I need to sign out. Will come back later.

Annie

[leilawednesday]

Another CVS because I am scheduled to do that anyway at 10weeks. If it’s twins a blood draw doesn’t work. i checked with Ravgen but their testing facilities are very far. DDC is more expensive but they have testing facilities nearby.

[leilawednesday]

If it’s one baby then blood draw works.
If twins then we’ll get day 17 to do a sperm analysis. Does that sound ok?

[AnnieBrooke]

I thought both labs (the DDC and Ravgen) had relationships with labs all over the world, for collecting the samples. It is not like you have to go to their headquarters or anything (though your samples do). Are you saying Ravgen doesn't even have an affiliated lab near you? That is too bad.

But back to my question. A sperm test would be lots cheaper and no big deal. Why not start with the ultrasound, (I mean, in any case you should start with the ultrasound.) Then if the dates don't rule out Mr. Day 17, go with a sperm test?  If the guy's sperm count is 0 you would not have to do anything further.

I assume you know paternity testing can be done with CVS samples to 99% accuracy? Not sure how you'd do it, but I'll bet your doctor would be able to order it.

[leilawednesday]

All on point, Annie.he appears more cooperative now and has agreed to do the paternity test. I checked with DDC and they recommended to only test with one because the results are definitive. Besides DDC only tests with blood or cheek swab and blood which I cannot ask my husband for.  Also they can’t test the paternity if i am carrying twins.
So, here’s my strategy —do the ultrasound next week, get the due date on measurements, confirm no twins.
Schedule the paternity test with DDC anyway. And hope for the best.
I had been seeing day 17 for 2.5 years so it was definitely also an emotional relationship but I see the fantasy in it . Sort of like an escape !!!which is probably what we both were for each other.
I have kept things cool and businesslike since yesterday after he apologized.
In the case i am carrying twins, he will do the sperm analysis which should prove conclusively if his vasectomy is still good and will avoid my doing another CBD

[leilawednesday]

Avoid doing another CVS or amniocentesis

[AnnieBrooke]

You say avoid doing "another" CVS or amniocentesis, are you saying you have done one before? The test from the DDC is not going to use either method, just a blood draw (from your arm).

I'm glad the guy is going to cooperate with the DNA test. Have you spoken to Ravgen about the method they use for testing with a husband when you do not want him to know? I would not go with the DDC over Ravgen just over cost, if you can test with both men.

[AnnieBrooke]

Also, if the guy is willing to do another sperm test, why doesn't he just cut to the chase and do one now? It's sure a lot cheaper than DNA testing.

[leilawednesday]

Annie, you are wise and as always totally on point. I will follow your advice on the ultrasound scheduled on the 12th.i will call and ask DDC regarding 1. How they ensure the integrity of the test sample? Can day 17 fake it. And 2. How can i test my husband without telling him.

That brings me to the larger question. I do really love and care about my husband deeply. We have a 5 year old and my husband is an amazing father and a good husband. Why then you ask? I know day 17 at work and one thing led to another.i love  being with him. He makes me feel
alive free light. Everything i don’t in my marriage. Day 17 has two kids is in a similar spot. Neither of us expect to leave our spouses. Of course now everything is different complicated and pretty awful.  He has anger issues, is often not nice to me when we fight but he is passionate and fun.

I have spoken to my husband about our troubles but i realize that things won’t change much. I have to focus on the good and stick with that.

[leilawednesday]

The explosion yesterday with day 17 has left me heartbroken.  He accused me of being paranoid and irrational. It distresses me when he’s mad at me. He can be emotionally manipulative and very viciously rude. I feel like we should’ve been able to do this in a cooperative manner but he has made made it so difficult.

My mind is all clouded and I can’t think straight. What do I do? I guess, first sort out the paternity test then revisit. Would you agree?

[AnnieBrooke]

First, get over your sense of entitlement -- it is not his job to fix your marriage (even if he was willing to flirt and have some sex). Don't demand that he care enough to try to fix your problem. Don't expect him to see you as someone he is concerned about. Don't hit this guy with anything else that has an emotional tone, or he might cast you in his mind as Glen Close in Fatal Attraction. If he convinces himself of this enough, he might file a harassment claim at work, and it's even possible that you could get fired.

Stay businesslike and cool. Do the ultrasound, not letting the doctor use any other information when giving you an estimated due date except the ultrasound measurements of the baby. Maybe you will get lucky and it will rule out one man or the other.

To help yourself stay in shape emotionally, remember that all you've lost is a fantasy character you made up yourself, based on what was missing in your marriage. It's a waste to get "heartbroken" and "distressed" over the loss of a fantasy you made up yourself in the first place.

If your ultrasound points to the need for DNA testing, tell him calmly and in a straightforward way that you would like him to do a swab.  (I hope you have emails or some other kind of evidence that you did indeed have an affair. Having evidence will help if you need to go to a lawyer to get him to swab.)

If he refuses to do a DNA test and your lawyer cannot make him, test with your husband alone. If it were to come out positive (which, if the guy at work is not lying about the vasectomy, should happen) then you would have your answer and can quit talking to the guy altogether.

[AnnieBrooke]

By "it's not his job to fix your marriage," I meant that patching in the emotional gaps in your marriage and taking care of your emotional needs is almost certainly nothing he ever signed up to do. This delightful/ light/ free stuff was a fantasy rooted in the depth of your needs. It's good to know that it's a self-written story, because stories we invent for ourselves are easier to get over and harder to mourn over.

[AnnieBrooke]

Have you had an ultrasound yet? If so, what estimated due date did the doctor give you? From that due date, you can use an online calculator to work out an estimated conception date, or just count back 266 days on a calendar. (If the doctor just used a little cardboard wheel and the first day of your last period to start the count, disregard that. You need information based on the actual measurements of the actual baby, not on merely assuming you ovulated 14 days after your period.)

If you haven't had an ultrasound yet, go in next week and get one. If you are trying to keep your problem a secret from your husband, go without your husband. When asked for the first day of your last period, tell the nurse who asks that you have irregular cycles, or that you don't remember when it was. (This is so the doctor won't just give you a "weeks pregnant" count based on the calendar and the first day of your last period.) From the ultrasound, ask for an estimated due date (calendar date, not "weeks") based only on the baby's measurements and growth indicators as seen in the ultrasound.

The 6th or 7th week (from the first day of your last period) is about the only time frame in the pregnancy where an ultrasound would be precise enough for trying to date the pregnancy as specifically as you need it to be done. So if you are going to try this ultrasound idea, don't delay. If the doc won't do an ultrasound, it's probably because he thinks insurance won't pay him to do one unless it's called for by a bleeding incident or other problem. You might try telling him that you have been bleeding and are concerned, but it's probably better to just tell the truth -- that you don't know who the dad is and need to have as precise of information as possible to try to work out when conception was. (And this information is only available at this particular stage of pregnancy, because babies can grow at different rates and the margin for error gets larger and larger as the weeks go by, so you need this pretty much now.) Offer to pay out of pocket for the ultrasound if necessary.

Unfortunately, this can't replace the reliability of a test from Ravgen or the DDC. Also, if the ultrasound were to give you an estimated due date of, for example, October 3 or 4, that won't help you rule out either guy, because both men had live sperm in your system as of the 11th of January (if Mr. Day 17 was being untruthful about the vasectomy). The only reason I suggested an ultrasound is on the off chance that it might lead you to an estimated due date of, say, September 30. If so, you could add this to the vasectomy story and assume your husband got you pregnant.

I guess in your shoes, I would be more likely to buy Mr. Day 17th's vasectomy story if he had told it to me years ago, and long before he ever had an idea that we might have sex. Again, beware of glib vasectomy stories when it's beginning to look like sex might be going to happen.

You don't have to guess with ultrasound evidence or ask your doctor or anything, if you are going to go ahead with Ravgen and test with both guys. Yes, it costs, but look at the bright side, you don't need to beg your doctor for an ultrasound or pay for it out of pocket. And, as I said before, at least then you would know. Since it sounds like life and death, it seems you need to know.  I assume finding out after the baby is born, and then putting the baby up for adoption, is out of the question? I would never get an abortion without evidence at least as good as from Ravgen that the baby was from the wrong man.

Does your husband know either thing -- one, that the baby might be from someone else, and two, the state of your marriage? I used to counsel total transparency, but it always depends on the situation. I am not as sure he deserves the slap in the face of learning that this baby *might* not be from him as much as he deserves you to tell him if you are feeling lonely in the marriage, and what might fix that. If you decide to go the difficult road of trying to hide this from him forever, you need to get moving and not just hope that everything will be all right. You also need to decide what you are going to do if the test proves the other guy is the dad, and how you are going to explain that to your husband.

[leilawednesday]

Hi Anne your responses are very very helpful. Thank you. i am scheduled for an ultrasound in a w I️ Will ask about the date of conception then.

Spoke with mr. day 17 yesterday. He was rude mean and upsetting. Said i was being irrational anparanoid. He was livid that i would question his vasectomy so sent me the report. It was the sperm analysis post vasectomy, sperm count was zero. But that doesn’t mean it couldn’t have failed 5 years later.

A couple of
questions please.
1. Does he need to also do a sperm analysis now or the ddcpaternity test is enough.
2. Does DDC ensure that the cheek swab they collect is definitely his? Any possibility at all of him faking it or getting someone else’s?
3. How do I test my husband?
4. If he has to do the sperm analysis how can he do it without a referral and without insurance. He is on his wife’s insurance. Will the same cheek swab facility be able to do a sperm analysis? Are companies like request a test  useful and accurate?
Telling my husband is not an option. If day 17 is the father i will terminate the pregnancy.i am 41 and the doctors told me i had about 1% chance of getting pregnant.

[AnnieBrooke]

When you get your ultrasound, ask for an estimated due date. Ask that it be based only on the ultrasound evidence; tell them you don't know for sure when your last period was, if you have to. Then take that date home and put it into a conception calculator online or just count back 266 days on a calendar from it. That will give you the estimated date of conception. Don't just ask your doctor when you conceived, doctors are not super good at this and bring their own notions into the discussion, often basing their answer on the first day of your last period without thinking. I would only go the route of testing if your dates point to the need to, so be sure you get the estimated due date (not just a "weeks pregnant" count) from your doctor who is looking at your ultrasound.

Regarding your questions:

1. If you are for sure going to do a prenatal test, I don't see any reason to insist the guy get a sperm test also, as long as he will do the prenatal DNA test and you think he will really do the prenatal test with his own DNA.

2. I have no idea what DDC does; you need to ask the DDC. I don't know if there is a possibility of him faking it or getting someone else's. One would have to assume that if the DDC contracts with a lab to collect his sample, they would be sure to use a lab that asks him for ID, and/or you could meet him there and watch him do the swab and see him hand it to the lab person.

3. I would talk to the people at Ravgen about doing testing that your husband does not know about. I know nothing about how it is done, have merely heard it mentioned in passing by women who have done it.

4. If your fling is willing to do a sperm analysis (which it sounds like he thinks it's crazy to do, but is certainly not going to be as expensive as prenatal paternity testing), it should be possible to call a urologist and ask for an appointment and get one done, and pay cash. He can just say he has no insurance. No, I don't think the lab who does the cheek swabs will also do sperm analysis, unless by referral from a doctor. I know nothing about companies like "Request a Test."

I've asked you before, are you and your husband in good shape? Because if not, you might talk to him truthfully -- you probably have not as much to lose as you seem to think. I am not saying you have to confess to an affair, especially if you think the baby is from your husband, because if the baby does prove to be from your husband he will always have that shock in his heart about the baby and it will be for no reason. But I do think anyone's marriage needs to be strong in order to have a baby. When a woman goes as far as to actually have sex with someone else when she is married (not just flirt or have a crush), it says things are missing in her marriage. This is not going to fix itself, and babies are stressors as well as joys. It seems like in exchange for you never telling him what went on, and forever keeping him in the dark, you at least owe your husband a happy life. For that, and for you to be happy too, I'd see about fixing the things that led to the affair so there is a prayer you two can go forward from here with you getting what you need from your marriage.

[leilawednesday]

Yes, it'll killing me. My husband is very happy because he really wants a second. I hope with all my heart that the baby is my husband's and my gut feeling tells me that it is. But to be absolutely sure and prevent any future paternity claims, the sperm analysis and the prenatal test is what we need to do. Mr. Day 17 is dead certain he does want children--he has two from his marriage, the second was an accident following \which he got the vasectomy. He also went back after 6 months to ascertain that there was no sperm. But these are his words.

[leilawednesday]

*r. Day 17 is dead certain he does NOT want children

[leilawednesday]

I also DO NOT want a kid with him

[AnnieBrooke]

Hi, how do you know that you ovulated on day 14 and 15 of your cycle? Have you been under a doctor's care, and he did an ultrasound and saw the egg in the follicle around day 13, and then did another one and it was no longer in the follicle on day 14 or 15? Failing that, have you been using an ovulation test kit and peeing on a stick every day to see when your hormone surge happened? Failing that, are your cycles like clockwork and every 28 days for years your period has come? Failing that, how do you know you didn't ovulate on day 8 or day 18? Some women do.

I'm just sayin.' Of course you could get pregnant from someone on day 17 of your cycle, unless you know FOR SURE that you ovulated on a particular day, that was out of range of day 17.

It would be a lot cheaper to ask Mr. Day 17 to go to his urologist and get a sperm count done, than to go to a prenatal test lab and do a DNA paternity test. If Mr. Day 17 is concerned that he is suddenly going to be a father, he should care enough to do this test. He should have his doctor mail you a copy of the results (sorry, but taking his word that he has even had a vasectomy, let alone what the sperm reading is, is off the table here. Guys lie all the time about vasectomies when sex is in the offing.)

If you cannot trust Mr. Day 17 to be straight with you about this (and he is not looking that great on the honorable scale at the moment, since he was willing to cheat with a married woman -- remember the old saying "there is no honor among thieves"), and if it is super important to know now, and if you think Mr. Day 17 will not find some way to fudge the test, by all means do a DNA test. Test with both men. (Ravgen and probably the DDC can give you instructions for using a swab on the edge of a drinking glass, if you cannot bring yourself to admit to your husband what you did.) We have heard feedback on this forum of the reliability of both labs; Ravgen is the gold standard. (Don't use an Internet-advertising cheapie so-called lab if you do it, you would just be wasting your money.) Again, TEST WITH BOTH MEN if you are going to do it at all, since one guy's positive will back up the other guy's negative. When we get freaked-out women writing into this forum who have done a prenatal paternity test, the freaking out is always because they tested with only one guy and got a negative. They write, "What if the test is WRONG?!?!?!?!"  Having one guy's results come in positive and the other guy's results come in negative alleviates all that freaking out.

Good luck, it's a tough spot for you. At least there is a test that you could get, that will tell you what you need to know.

[leilawednesday]

Thank you Anne. That's super helpful. Mr. Day 17 is married too, cant go to the urologist since he's on his wife's insurance. I tried to get him to do a "Spermcheck" /at home test but he was all weird about it. Was rude and asked me to "back off". The DNA test might be my only option, testing with both my husband and Mr. Day 17. Is a mail in cheek swab reliable enough?
Ravgen or DDC?

[AnnieBrooke]

We have had excellent feedback on both labs. Occasionally someone will write in with a complaint, but they have seemed very individualized (such as, problems with the intervening lab that took the samples, or possible fakery by the men who had a buddy do their swab) and in a couple of cases they were trolls (most memorably, one wrote in sadly saying that "good old" [lab name] failed them, and then wrote in using a different user name and posting the very same post verbatim, all the way down to "good old" [the other lab name] failed them.) Talk to each lab, and go with the one that seems the most professional and competent to you. But test with both men. That is your insurance policy, since you're bound to get a clear "yes" on one of them.  

[AnnieBrooke]

Based on Mr. Day 17's reaction to your suggestion (why couldn't one of you have just paid cash for his sperm test? It didn't need to show up on his wife's insurance), it sounds a bit like you might need to threaten him with a paternity suit to get him to do any test, whether sperm or DNA. He is acting like a guy who lied about having had a vasectomy. Hope that is not the case. But if he refuses to do any test, talk to a lawyer. I don't suggest spending the big bucks on a prenatal test unless you can test with both men.

Do unspool this pretty soon. Since you are married, the law will make the assumption for legal purposes that the baby is from your husband. It takes legal and emotional work to undo that assumption. You're better off finding out sooner if you can.