Long-term Paxil withdrawal

[Paxiled]

I was taken off Paxil nearly three years ago by a psychiatrist, who used about a six week taper.  At first I suffered a lot of disorientation and insomnia, then it evolved into intense depression, constant anxiety, and worse anxiety attacks.  I was put on the drug for anxiety attacks.  It's three years later and I'm still in constant anxiety, my phobias are way worse, and deeply depressed, so I ended up with three problems where I was only being originally treated for one.  My psychiatrist didn't or refused to recognize this as Paxil withdrawal, but eventually I was able to go on the Net and find out what it was, but I can't find anyone who can tell me what to do about such a persistent problem.  I'm now on Lexapro, but it hasn't helped much.  I know now that if my psychiatrist had put me right back on Paxil and tapered more slowly I might have done much better, but he didn't offer that alternative or ever explain Paxil withdrawal to me, so here I am.  Do you know of anyone I can talk to about this, who might have researched this problem; I haven't been able to find anyone, and several practitioners have refused to see me at all, probably because I lack income or they don't want to buck the pharmaceutical industry.  I really don't know.  I've lost three years of my life already.  How do I find someone who truly knows how to help?  The three psychiatrists I've seen are truly clueless about the drugs they prescribe.

[Paxiled]

Funny you should mention natural remedies.  I managed health food stores for 18 yrs.  That's what I intended to do when I went off the Paxil, but after I did they had the opposite effect, so I'm afraid to take them, too, except for a couple and homeopathics, which have helped some.  Ironic again, eh?  As for the toxins of driving, well, she's driving anyway, better to reduce the toxins one can.  I also eat organic food.  Besides being better for the earth and me, it tastes better -- vegetables I used to hate are nice and sweet now, grown for flavor with real seeds instead of those genetically engineered for selling purposes only.  

Writing about these only works, if it works at all, for non-writers.  For writers, it's just torment, that is, if you strive to write serious work, as I do.  I did write a novel with a character in it who went through Paxil withdrawal, but it was a novel about torture and its many forms, not about me.  I've thought about writing a memoir since I can't get my serious fiction published yet -- no market for it anymore -- but I don't know, seems boring to write about myself.  I've written three novels, but no agent.  That's why I went off the Paxil -- wasn't able to write on it very well, and it gave me insomnia,  I guess working 10 to 12 hours a day running around stores allowed me to sleep, but when I stopped I started thinking obsessively as soon as I hit the bed, then I'd sleep all afternoon.  That was the final straw with the drug, and I had my psychiatrist take me off it thinking I'd try to replace it with natural remedies that produce serotonin instead of reusing it.  But, alas, never got the chance.  As I said, sure wish somebody had warned me about withdrawal before I quit.

Your right about children, but not completely.  A lot of the problems these drugs produce in children are also produced in adults, like the suicidal thinking and violent thoughts.  And on the other hand, others have suicidal thoughts that are controlled by the drugs.  It's a pickle, damned if you do and damned if you don't.  As for there being treatments for anxiety, depression, etc., not really, not if you have them all at once.  For example, treatment for panic attacks is much more difficult if you also suffer from depression than if you don't, and the only double blind studies I've been able to find about cognitive therapy, supposedly the gold standard, show about a 30% success rate.  Same with drugs, by the way.  Which doesn't mean anyone should give up trying, just that it's damned hard.

[Jaquta]

To Paxiled

It's understandable that you would feel afraid of medication and be wary of health professionals.  Who wouldn't?
I have severe trust issues following my experiences within the mhs.  Even after five years of weekly visits (plus or minus a few weeks) to my GP, I can still lack confidence and trust in him and his ability.  I have a good relationship with him though so I can at least discuss my concerns.
Trust can be an important component in recovery and if you don't trust your doctor I would strongly recommend you see someone else.  (If that is an option).
I categorically refuse to use our psychiatric emergency team as I have no confidence in them what so ever.  This is almost the same with their out-patient clinics too.
I think I am probably better off with no support, than bad and damaging support.

You sound like me with all your symptoms.  I think the obsessing can be the worst as you just keep re-traumatizing yourself and get stuck (and then feel more anxious and depressed and unwell so feel more anxious, depressed and unwell, etc, etc).
I learned from therapy that being self-absorbed isn't that bad of a thing.  We can feel selfish and self-centered but the reality is we need to be.  When we're this unwell we need to do that in order to survive.

Some of my symptoms too seemed to have a definite origin but looking back I think they were probably pretty insidious.  Hard to say really.

My initial depressive symptoms followed a near drowning.  The psychiatrist I saw later told me I stood out because it is unusual for patients to pin-point exactly when symptoms first occur.  I don't understand the significance of this.
Perhaps it was just the straw that broke the camels back?
(It had been a difficult period for me.  Leaving work to look after mum and help my father.  Watching mum have seizures.  Seeing her stop breathing and watching her being ventilated.  Also the day of my accident I had seen a person from school.  He reminded of someone else at school who had shot himself and another person who a year later to the day had jumped off the roof of a car-park building).

I couldn't imagine what it would be like on four different meds.  It was bad enough on two (an antibiotic and an anti-inflammatory) after I had my wisdom teeth out last year.

I was going to ask you about the writing.  Have you thought about writing about your story and your experiences?  It could help give you some closure.

A lot of meds have off-label uses.  Tranquilizers or anti-convulsants, etc could potentially be used for ssri withdrawal.

There are several books out about the dangers, etc of medications.  A number of those are on prozac.

Doctors don't know what has caused it.  I associated it with the stopping of the anti-anxiety medication I was taking at the time.  It's probably an erroneous association though.  It could also be due to diet, stress, the fact we live ?200 m from pylons, exposure to chemicals.  Who knows?
I'm sorry for the loss of your mother.
I think life is more a search for meaning.  That reminds me of the title of a book.  Man's search for meaning, by Victor Frankyl.

I think we understand very little but we know a lot, doctors inclusive.
My GP always respects his limitations and occasionally reminds me, that he too is fallible.

Have you tried looking at alternate medicine?

To Melissa,

Did it not occur to you either that perhaps the post-partum depression was no longer an issue?
I guess we don't know what we don't know.
Mild symptoms can respond to medications too.  It can also be a personal preference.  Whether to take meds or not.

Medications often carry warnings for different populations.  For example, for pregnant women, for seniors, for children, for those with liver damage, etc.

Regardless of weight children's brains are still developing.

I'm sorry about your friend.

My mother's Tai Chi instructor has leukemia and she sticks to organic foods.  She also doesn't microwave stuff because of the toxins released by some packaging during heating.  She probably exposes herself to more toxins just from driving between her tai chi classes.  They're personal choices though.

Thanks for your thoughts and prayers.

J

[Melissa0116]

Not all medical psychiatrists or physicians, but I agree that our psychiatric system and family medical system is now based on how much money the pharmaceutical companies will give you to push their product.  I am 33 and have been on 3 different meds for post partum which occured 10 years ago.  My psychiatrist never suggest that maybe post partum is gone and you should try to stop taking it, but instead kept pushing the meds by upping the dose and changing meds.  Every new drug on the market at that time was the right drug for me, of course that was his opinion.  I do know that there are severe cases that are in need of meds, but not for mild symptoms.  

I believe that they put us at risk for many other problems when they are used too long or even taken to begin with.  I have been off of effexor for 3 weeks now.  I weaned myself off gradually not by how the doctor was telling me to do it, but by taking it into my own hands and realizing that 5 days was not enough time to go off meds that I had been on for 10 years.  I finally conquered weaning myself and finally am off of the meds.  It was hell even when I weaned myself off.  I am no longer depressed (I was when I was on the meds) and feel a little bit better.  I still have shakiness, nausiness, and dizziness.  I know that I have to get through this.  I will not go on the meds again.  I will use my faith and perserverance to conquer this.  IT is not going to be a piece of cake but through support and understanding it will happen.

to J:  Just because my son was 7 does not necessarily mean that the meds react differently in adult compared to a child.  My child is 126 lbs and 5'2, so he is bigger than some adults and most of the time they base the meds on weight.  His symptoms may be different but most drugs have the same side effects listed for adults and children.  I am sorry about the cancer, I have a very good friend that has breast cancer and ovarian cancer.  She has been such an inspiration to alot of people, due to her extremely positive attitude and does not use any meds of any kind to help her through it.  Of course, everyone is different, but she has never put any kind of meds in her body except once she used a antibiotic but otherwise has restrained from using even tylenol.  She uses natural remedies and uses a juicer to get many of the nutrients that are needed.  The doctor cannot believe how miraculous she is doing and has commented to her that he wished there were alot more people out there that did not put all the bad stuff in their body.  She struggles at times but feels that this is her way to be healthy and happy.  I just wish someone would have taught me this when I was young.  I wish the best for you and will pray for your recovery.  


Thanks.

[Paxiled]

J -- I guess the truth is, I'm afraid of the meds now, after what happened.  But also, it's not that I would never take something, it's that I don't trust my health plan psychiatrist because he got me into this in the first place.  The other two psychiatrists I saw on my own don't recommend a lot of meds, given both my experience with Paxil and their inability to know just how to deal with all of this.  There's been memory loss, disorientation, loss of my sense of humor, inability to enjoy things I always enjoyed, obsession with myself and my past, just so many symptoms.  It may be that the only way to get back is to go back on Paxil for the rest of my life, but that's a last resort.  I don't really know how to answer you without you having seen what happened and how fast it happened.  I decided to wait it out, but it never went away, and I don't want to live a life all drugged up.  I'm a writer, and I went off the Paxil because the new side effects were getting in my way; imagine what it would be like on four different drugs?  Just doesn't make sense to me, especially since none of them was created or used to deal with ssri withdrawal.  I'm just looking for somebody who knows something, but the only person I found is a Joseph (I think) Glanville, at least I think that's his name, who wrote a book called The Antidepressant Solution.  It's a book about what drugs do to people, and about withdrawal and how to best deal with it.  Wish I'd read it before I quit Paxil, because my psychiatrist didn't know anything about withdrawal, or claims not to.  I did try to contact the author, but he never responded either to me or one of the psychiatrists I've seen.  

Melissa:  Got to look out for yourself.  The true fact is, psychologists and psychiatrists, and doctors in general, know virtually nothing about disease and how to deal with it.  They're mostly following protocols established by pharmaceutical companies, not medicine.  Look at medicine a hundred years ago and how barbaric it was, and now think what people a hundred years from now will say about us.  And thanks for the prayer.  

And J:  I know it's hard with cancer.  It's a disease of the immune system and doctors only treat the symptoms, not the cause.  I lost my mother to cancer many years ago, and I also met a lot of long time survivors when I managed health food stores, which I did for eighteen years.  Always remember, it's not how long one lives, it's how good one feels while one is alive.  Do what makes you have the best life.  And what the hell is reality?  Life is a search for facts, not usually a discovery of any.  There's so much information and so little fact.  Doctors know little, but they can't tell us that, we need to have confidence in them to get better, so we have to tell which doctor is just a quack and which are just being positive.  There's a lot of shaman still in any good physician.

[Jaquta]

I think pediatrics is a little different as the brain is still developing.
Many psych medications carry warnings for the use in younger individuals.

You were right to discuss these symptoms with your son's psychiatrist and then when no positive changes were evident, to research and take action yourself.
It can potentially be very dangerous but in your situation it proved advantageous.
This is also about responsible parenting and knowing your child.

OCD is something that could have been worked through in therapy with your son.

Sometimes medications are used as a first resort because clinicians are just plain to lazy (and/ or under-resourced) to address the real issues.

I'm glad your son has survived this and is on the mend.

J

[Melissa0116]

I totally understand what you are going through because my son went through this when he was put on zoloft.  The pediatric psychiatrist insisted that my son had OCD and zoloft was the answer.  So she started him on this and immediately I was concerned.  I noticed his moods were horrible, he started having tics, anger, and did not sleep.  I explained this to the psych but she just uped the dose.  Every time the dose was changed the syptoms got worse.  In fact, the more he was on the med the more new problems came up.  He was now depressed and had extreme anxiety.  

The doctor did not do anything about this so I gradually weened him off of the zoloft within 3 months.  I new by doing my own research, even though I paid a psychiatrist, that he needed to be weened off very slowly or the outcome could be traumatic.

Well, he was 7 when he went off of the zoloft and finally by the age of 10 he finally is just about back to normal.  He still has a couple tics.  

When I ended up telling the dr. at our next appt. she was very upset that I had done this.  She said that I could have really harmed my child.  I told her that this med was harming him and that you did nothing about it so we, mother and father, did what was best for OUR child.  She finally realized this at the next session and since that episode, she has been a wonderful psychiatrist for my son.  If fact he no longer has the OCD diagnosis.  She removed that from his records.

I hope that this helps you and others in understanding that some of these meds cause more problems when given to someone that may not really need them at all.