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Long-term Paxil withdrawal
I was taken off Paxil nearly three years ago by a psychiatrist, who used about a six week taper. At first I suffered a lot of disorientation and insomnia, then it evolved into intense depression, constant anxiety, and worse anxiety attacks. I was put on the drug for anxiety attacks. It's three years later and I'm still in constant anxiety, my phobias are way worse, and deeply depressed, so I ended up with three problems where I was only being originally treated for one. My psychiatrist didn't or refused to recognize this as Paxil withdrawal, but eventually I was able to go on the Net and find out what it was, but I can't find anyone who can tell me what to do about such a persistent problem. I'm now on Lexapro, but it hasn't helped much. I know now that if my psychiatrist had put me right back on Paxil and tapered more slowly I might have done much better, but he didn't offer that alternative or ever explain Paxil withdrawal to me, so here I am. Do you know of anyone I can talk to about this, who might have researched this problem; I haven't been able to find anyone, and several practitioners have refused to see me at all, probably because I lack income or they don't want to buck the pharmaceutical industry. I really don't know. I've lost three years of my life already. How do I find someone who truly knows how to help? The three psychiatrists I've seen are truly clueless about the drugs they prescribe.
I doubt the doctor would offer a different response. You could try with specifics (I know you did this before). Perhaps mention how important it is for you. Perhaps ask for ways you can find the information you're seeking.
What about the bodies whom you report adverse drug events too?
A poisons center??
It can be a harsh way to learn but sometimes we do only through experiencing the consequences of our mistakes.
There was a quote I use to like, something about giving the test first, the lesson after-wards.
I'm surprised you wouldn't ban paxil.
I was threatened with ect and I would have that banned. I think I would need more information first though. And I would need to see it work. Because of its potential to be abused, and because of its adverse effects, I would have it banned. At least until there were stronger laws around it.
You could find out by trialling it again.
I thought you'd managed to achieve a lot with your debilitating symptoms.
Do you think I could be just a little bit right? (Can't blame me for trying).
I can't understand why you would do this to yourself when you could be addressing the issues you do have right now.
Why continue to be anxious and depressed when you could treat them now?
Dr Gould has this thing about reality. He suggests starting and ending with reality as the basis for decision making.
If you were to start with the symptoms you're experiencing now ...
This is just a boring aside but I was told I needed radiation therapy for cancer. I'm not thrilled with the idea and to be honest I can't be bothered with the whole process. But, ... if I start and end with reality. The reality is I have symptoms and I am at risk. The end reality is that if I don't have treatment I could potentially die.
All this other miscellaneous stuff comes up, like: I'm anxious, I don't like people touching me, I'm not comfortable with my body or these interventions, I don't want to have to maintain a weight for five weeks that I'm not comfortable with, I can't see anything so how do I trust I need treatment, I'm tired, I'm depressed, how can I make a decision, my life ***** why not not treat it, treatment will interfere with and affect goals I've set. Just on and on, no resolution, just procrastination and more stress.
The reality is that things can get much worse for me so I rang the oncologist this morning and she was going to book me in for scans and simulation next week.
I just don't get your approach. You're smart so why not treat the anxiety, depression, panic and phobias? These would be amenable to most treatments.
J
What about the bodies whom you report adverse drug events too?
A poisons center??
It can be a harsh way to learn but sometimes we do only through experiencing the consequences of our mistakes.
There was a quote I use to like, something about giving the test first, the lesson after-wards.
I'm surprised you wouldn't ban paxil.
I was threatened with ect and I would have that banned. I think I would need more information first though. And I would need to see it work. Because of its potential to be abused, and because of its adverse effects, I would have it banned. At least until there were stronger laws around it.
You could find out by trialling it again.
I thought you'd managed to achieve a lot with your debilitating symptoms.
Do you think I could be just a little bit right? (Can't blame me for trying).
I can't understand why you would do this to yourself when you could be addressing the issues you do have right now.
Why continue to be anxious and depressed when you could treat them now?
Dr Gould has this thing about reality. He suggests starting and ending with reality as the basis for decision making.
If you were to start with the symptoms you're experiencing now ...
This is just a boring aside but I was told I needed radiation therapy for cancer. I'm not thrilled with the idea and to be honest I can't be bothered with the whole process. But, ... if I start and end with reality. The reality is I have symptoms and I am at risk. The end reality is that if I don't have treatment I could potentially die.
All this other miscellaneous stuff comes up, like: I'm anxious, I don't like people touching me, I'm not comfortable with my body or these interventions, I don't want to have to maintain a weight for five weeks that I'm not comfortable with, I can't see anything so how do I trust I need treatment, I'm tired, I'm depressed, how can I make a decision, my life ***** why not not treat it, treatment will interfere with and affect goals I've set. Just on and on, no resolution, just procrastination and more stress.
The reality is that things can get much worse for me so I rang the oncologist this morning and she was going to book me in for scans and simulation next week.
I just don't get your approach. You're smart so why not treat the anxiety, depression, panic and phobias? These would be amenable to most treatments.
J
I did try what you suggest, but had no success. My doctors are in a practice connected with a medical school, but claimed not to be able to find anyone. Calls to medical schools in the area went unheeded. I did get a reference from my primary care physician through a professor, but the psychiatrist he sent me to couldn't help -- had no expertise in the area after saying he did. He did give me the most thorough diagnosis and listening I've ever had! But he had nothing to add but describing what I already knew I was going through. And I contacted GlaxoSmithKline, but they refused to help -- said they could only speak to professionals, but they refused to speak to them, too. They've been sued so many times, they don't want to reveal their research because the only time someone did (a psychiatrist in England during the initial lawsuit) it turned out they knew all about this but didn't tell anyone. I'm afraid I've been flailing about, and hoped I'd get a response here but same old same old. Maybe I'll try to question him again, but my guess is he doesn't want anything to do with it on my terms -- I've already done everything he suggested, with befuddled practitioners as a result. Somebody's got to suffer the terrible consequences of these drugs, whether it's the few who die of liver damage or kidney damage or the thousands upon thousands who've died from simple aspirin. It's the unfortunate way we learn. First we kill animals, then we kill people, because we just don't really know what these drugs will do in long-term use. We find out after a few years. Yet I wouldn't ban Paxil -- it still is probably the best drug for some people whatever the costs, maybe even for me. I just can't seem to find out. Appreciate your and anybody else's help on how to find out such things -- my initiative was destroyed with the incredible anxiety and depression that has followed discontinuation of Paxil. And keep writing! Nothing you say is malicious, I just didn't agree. No biggie about that!
I did try what you suggest, but had no success. My doctors are in a practice connected with a medical school, but claimed not to be able to find anyone. Calls to medical schools in the area went unheeded. I did get a reference from my primary care physician through a professor, but the psychiatrist he sent me to couldn't help -- had no expertise in the area after saying he did. He did give me the most thorough diagnosis and listening I've ever had! But he had nothing to add but describing what I already knew I was going through. And I contacted GlaxoSmithKline, but they refused to help -- said they could only speak to professionals, but they refused to speak to them, too. They've been sued so many times, they don't want to reveal their research because the only time someone did (a psychiatrist in England during the initial lawsuit) it turned out they knew all about this but didn't tell anyone. I'm afraid I've been flailing about, and hoped I'd get a response here but same old same old. Maybe I'll try to question him again, but my guess is he doesn't want anything to do with it on my terms -- I've already done everything he suggested, with befuddled practitioners as a result. Somebody's got to suffer the terrible consequences of these drugs, whether it's the few who die of liver damage or kidney damage or the thousands upon thousands who've died from simple aspirin. It's the unfortunate way we learn. First we kill animals, then we kill people, because we just don't really know what these drugs will do in long-term use. We find out after a few years. Yet I wouldn't ban Paxil -- it still is probably the best drug for some people whatever the costs, maybe even for me. I just can't seem to find out. Appreciate your and anybody else's help on how to find out such things -- my initiative was destroyed with the incredible anxiety and depression that has followed discontinuation of Paxil. And keep writing! Nothing you say is malicious, I just didn't agree. No biggie about that!
Thank you!
I was wondering that if I was abusing the forum by posting about myself how could I post at all. I was a little afraid you would come back and say you should do a, b and c. That would have been fine but ultimately that is not who I am.
This and other forums are a lifeline for me and I am very dependent on them.
I do hear what you're saying. I think recovery will be a journey, an adventure almost, for you.
I believe Dr Gould did answer your question. I too am an independent thinker (when I can think) and I believe I would confront or challenge him if I disagreed with something he wrote. I don't feel like just another sheep. Or blind man.
It sounds like you want an expert in paxil withdrawal. You've tried several psychiatrists. What about psychologists studying the side-effects of this drug? You need to go back to the grass roots almost. Perhaps look for places where the drug was trialled. Once there then you can discern the appropriate person to talk too.
Do you have a copy of the information that came with the medication? This usually has details on it. Maybe the manufacturer could direct you to someone.
Perhaps you could start at the top with the drug company and work backwards.
It seems like starting at the bottom will be too time-consuming and futile. If you have the confidence and are well enough try starting at the top.
For me, if I were wanting this information, I would approach someone from one of our two medical schools. (Psychology, psychiatry, research departments).
I don't know if a physicians desk reference would have anything in it.
What about the people who published the articles on the side-effects??
They are heaps of different places you could try looking.
I hope I'm not doing you a disservice by encouraging you. :)
J
I was wondering that if I was abusing the forum by posting about myself how could I post at all. I was a little afraid you would come back and say you should do a, b and c. That would have been fine but ultimately that is not who I am.
This and other forums are a lifeline for me and I am very dependent on them.
I do hear what you're saying. I think recovery will be a journey, an adventure almost, for you.
I believe Dr Gould did answer your question. I too am an independent thinker (when I can think) and I believe I would confront or challenge him if I disagreed with something he wrote. I don't feel like just another sheep. Or blind man.
It sounds like you want an expert in paxil withdrawal. You've tried several psychiatrists. What about psychologists studying the side-effects of this drug? You need to go back to the grass roots almost. Perhaps look for places where the drug was trialled. Once there then you can discern the appropriate person to talk too.
Do you have a copy of the information that came with the medication? This usually has details on it. Maybe the manufacturer could direct you to someone.
Perhaps you could start at the top with the drug company and work backwards.
It seems like starting at the bottom will be too time-consuming and futile. If you have the confidence and are well enough try starting at the top.
For me, if I were wanting this information, I would approach someone from one of our two medical schools. (Psychology, psychiatry, research departments).
I don't know if a physicians desk reference would have anything in it.
What about the people who published the articles on the side-effects??
They are heaps of different places you could try looking.
I hope I'm not doing you a disservice by encouraging you. :)
J
Just keep on being you. My reaction, or anyone else's, should help educate us all, but should never determine who we are or whether we like ourselves. I'm not angry at you for sharing what you think, I'm just open about dialogue -- I will answer if I think someone has misunderstood me. I'm not a very mainstream thinker -- maybe because I'm a writer, maybe just because I am who I am. You just be who you are, and if someone disagrees, as I did, that's a beginning of the conversation, not the end. I'm obviously pretty frustrated after going through this for so long and not being able to get professionals like Dr. Gould to take me seriously, so when I got so much flack from fellow sufferers, it took me back and I felt it necessary to respond. It is not necessary for you to agree with me or anyone else because of that. I don't think you should judge yourself, but that is the nature of the disease or whatever it is we have, we do judge ourselves and put a lot of pressure on ourselves. Personally, I like a good discussion, and people will disagree, but that doesn't define us. It just expresses a piece of us.
I'm probably a bit older than most who use these boards -- I never have before. I'm nearly 56, and have lived with this for a long time. I know how quickly and radically I changed, and the only thing different in my life was going off Paxil. I also read thousands of other accounts on various message boards, though frankly it makes me nervous in my current state to read them. I had to do this because my health plan psychiatrist claimed ignorance and left me hanging and I didn't know what was happening to me until it was too late to follow the recommended protocols. Now I'm completely lost in this weird world of constant anxiety, memory loss, loss of my sense of humor, disorientation, devastating depression, none of which I had until I went off Paxil, ever. I did have intermittent depression, always triggered by a bad break-up and nothing else and I haven't had one for a long time, in fact I'm married to a woman I've been with for thirteen years, and the panic attacks, which is the ailment that brought me to Paxil because therapy hadn't worked (it actually turns out to have a pretty low success rate, but that doesn't mean we should stop trying). It's also frustrating because most of the research is on depression, not panic, with these meds. Anyway, that's how I know it was the Paxil and not some horrible event. No such event occurred, and the deterioration to new states of being happened soon after going off the Paxil. I think I'm an extreme and rare case, so I wouldn't generalize it, I'd just like to find someone who knows where to go from here. Dr. Gould punted instead of answering my question, so I have to look elsewhere. But don't let me or anyone else define you or tell you what to say; we both listened to one another and grew a little bit from it but a frank exchange doesn't make anyone a bad person or any other kind of person except a courageous one willing to get out there and express an opinion. Be good to yourself.
I'm probably a bit older than most who use these boards -- I never have before. I'm nearly 56, and have lived with this for a long time. I know how quickly and radically I changed, and the only thing different in my life was going off Paxil. I also read thousands of other accounts on various message boards, though frankly it makes me nervous in my current state to read them. I had to do this because my health plan psychiatrist claimed ignorance and left me hanging and I didn't know what was happening to me until it was too late to follow the recommended protocols. Now I'm completely lost in this weird world of constant anxiety, memory loss, loss of my sense of humor, disorientation, devastating depression, none of which I had until I went off Paxil, ever. I did have intermittent depression, always triggered by a bad break-up and nothing else and I haven't had one for a long time, in fact I'm married to a woman I've been with for thirteen years, and the panic attacks, which is the ailment that brought me to Paxil because therapy hadn't worked (it actually turns out to have a pretty low success rate, but that doesn't mean we should stop trying). It's also frustrating because most of the research is on depression, not panic, with these meds. Anyway, that's how I know it was the Paxil and not some horrible event. No such event occurred, and the deterioration to new states of being happened soon after going off the Paxil. I think I'm an extreme and rare case, so I wouldn't generalize it, I'd just like to find someone who knows where to go from here. Dr. Gould punted instead of answering my question, so I have to look elsewhere. But don't let me or anyone else define you or tell you what to say; we both listened to one another and grew a little bit from it but a frank exchange doesn't make anyone a bad person or any other kind of person except a courageous one willing to get out there and express an opinion. Be good to yourself.
This is not about paxil but about your comments concerning myself.
I'd be interested to hear your feedback.
I was thinking about this a little, earlier. I actually feel really insecure about posting and your comments seem to resonate with some concerns I've had. At times I feel my posts may come across as me being narcissistic and/ or controlling.
These are not things I set out to do but that may occur due to my own mh issues.
I feel I write lots and perhaps this is why I also inject my own thoughts, feelings and experiences into posts and that is because I lack a sense of self and I am ignorant about personal boundaries and limits.
Perhaps while answering people's posts I am trying to find myself.
Perhaps by over-identifying with the parts that seem familiar to me I am neglecting other important aspects. I don't think I dismiss all aspects out of hand though. I think I hear them, or at least I try too. I feel I can see things from several perspectives but I also know I miss an awful lot due to my limited life experiences.
Perhaps I am playing it safe by sticking to what I know based on my own experiences.
While I sometimes find it difficult hearing personal criticisms, and I can sometimes perceive this as a personal attack, I really appreciate your comments.
I haven't been in therapy for five months and have missed approximately 60 therapy sessions (the number of sessions I would have had if in therapy) and have missed the challenges to understand myself better and to change my cognition's and behaviors.
Do you have any advice or suggestions on how I may better understand you or others and how I could communicate this?
Do I need to be more humble and acknowledge I don't know, and therefore can't understand, a person's story? A post is like a single photograph. It can convey a lot but is also very limited. Do I come across as being that arrogant and egotistical that I think I know everything? I am actually incredibly insecure about most things. Even my sense of self-worth and right to life. Perhaps this is a defense I use to protect myself. Control to defend against vulnerability.
Do I need to not talk about myself? Do you think this invalidates the person I am responding too? It is never my intention to belittle or judge anyone or their experience.
I may have asked the wrong questions but I'm happy to listen to any thoughts or feelings you may have. That doesn't mean I have to like them or even change who I am.
It was never my intention to hurt you or imply I thought you were stupid. I wouldn't be asking for your advice if I didn't respect you.
Thank you for your honesty.
J
I'd be interested to hear your feedback.
I was thinking about this a little, earlier. I actually feel really insecure about posting and your comments seem to resonate with some concerns I've had. At times I feel my posts may come across as me being narcissistic and/ or controlling.
These are not things I set out to do but that may occur due to my own mh issues.
I feel I write lots and perhaps this is why I also inject my own thoughts, feelings and experiences into posts and that is because I lack a sense of self and I am ignorant about personal boundaries and limits.
Perhaps while answering people's posts I am trying to find myself.
Perhaps by over-identifying with the parts that seem familiar to me I am neglecting other important aspects. I don't think I dismiss all aspects out of hand though. I think I hear them, or at least I try too. I feel I can see things from several perspectives but I also know I miss an awful lot due to my limited life experiences.
Perhaps I am playing it safe by sticking to what I know based on my own experiences.
While I sometimes find it difficult hearing personal criticisms, and I can sometimes perceive this as a personal attack, I really appreciate your comments.
I haven't been in therapy for five months and have missed approximately 60 therapy sessions (the number of sessions I would have had if in therapy) and have missed the challenges to understand myself better and to change my cognition's and behaviors.
Do you have any advice or suggestions on how I may better understand you or others and how I could communicate this?
Do I need to be more humble and acknowledge I don't know, and therefore can't understand, a person's story? A post is like a single photograph. It can convey a lot but is also very limited. Do I come across as being that arrogant and egotistical that I think I know everything? I am actually incredibly insecure about most things. Even my sense of self-worth and right to life. Perhaps this is a defense I use to protect myself. Control to defend against vulnerability.
Do I need to not talk about myself? Do you think this invalidates the person I am responding too? It is never my intention to belittle or judge anyone or their experience.
I may have asked the wrong questions but I'm happy to listen to any thoughts or feelings you may have. That doesn't mean I have to like them or even change who I am.
It was never my intention to hurt you or imply I thought you were stupid. I wouldn't be asking for your advice if I didn't respect you.
Thank you for your honesty.
J
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