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Digestive Disorders / Gastroenterology Forum
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Avatar universal

gallbladder treatment

Just found out I have gallstones. What is best TRIED--TRUE
steps I should take. No pain yet but frequent naseau.

Thanks
18 Responses
Avatar universal
I recently had my gallbladder removed due to chronic inflammation.  I'd heard so much about a gallbladder/liver cleanse on here that I decided to try it. Although I was told I had no stones I gave it a shot.  I could not believe all the stones that came out.  Hundreds and I am not exagerating.  It is a cleanse that requires you be in fairly good health because you feel a little drained from it.  It is called Dr. Hulda Clarkes Liver and Gallbladder cleanse.  You will be amazed at how well it works.  Just do a search on it and you will be sure to find it.
Avatar universal
So did you do this so-called "cleanse" before or after you had your gallbladder removed?  Seems to me it didn't help a bit if you still had your GB removed.  I don't believe in "cleanses" so be sure to thoroughly read and investigate before you try anything.  By the way, I had my GB removed back in May.  Just be careful is all I'm saying.
Avatar universal
I agree with JCLingo. A good source of unbiased information on Hulda Clark is the Web site Quackwatch.com.  I recommend that you visit that site and do a search for Dr. Clark or Hulda Clark for additional information. By the way, she isn't rally an MD. She uses the title to lend credence to her efforts to profit from the sale of her books, recipes and products. She is currently living in Mexico, and is the subject of several wrongful death lawsuits.
Avatar universal
Just wondering.......but when you do the cleanse and these stones come out,are you seeing them in the toilet and counting them?  Wouldn't it be painful to have these "stones" come through your system?  What do they look like?  What color are they?  What shape are they?
Avatar universal
Hi Nadia:

I took the liberty of copying some background information on Hulda Clark from Quackwatch.com so you can put her claims in a more proper, unbiased context. It's a bit lengthy, but very instructive:
===========================================================
Hulda Regehr Clark, 72, claims to cure cancer, AIDS, and many other serious diseases. She describes herself as an "independent research scientist" with bachelor and master's degrees from the University of Saskatchewan and a Ph.D. degree in physiology from the University of Minnesota (1958). She also lists a naturopathic (N.D.) degree from the Clayton College of Natural Health [1]. Clayton is a nonaccredited correspondence school founded in 1980 and located in Birmingham Alabama. In 1985, when this school was called Dr. Clayton's School of Natural Healing, its "Doctor of Naturopathy" course was described in a magazine article as a "100-hour course" for which the tuition was $695 [2].
For several years, Clark's treatment has been administered at Century Nutrition, a clinic in Tijuana, Mexico, where the basic fee for two weeks of "treatment" was $4,500 (plus 10% tax). This figure does not include the cost of a motel room (approximately $210/week); meals ($250/week); blood tests ($70 each); standard diagnostic imaging tests ($40 to $400); dental x-rays (at least $206); "individually tailored" supplements ($400 to $1,500 for a month supply); equipment (about $350); tooth extractions ($80 each); and partial or full dentures ($450).

Bizarre Claims

Clark claims that all cancers and many other diseases are caused by "parasites, toxins, and pollutants" and can be cured by killing the parasites and ridding the body of environmental chemicals. Her book The Cure for All Cancers states:
All cancers are alike. They are all caused by a parasite. A single parasite! It is the human intestinal fluke. And if you kill this parasite, the cancer stops immediately. The tissue becomes normal again. In order to get cancer, you must have this parasite. . . .
This parasite typically lives in the intestine where it might do little harm, causing only colitis, Crohn's disease or irritable bowel syndrome, or perhaps nothing at all. But if it invades a different organ, like the uterus, kidneys or liver, it does a great deal of harm. If it establishes itself in the liver, it causes cancer! It only establishes itself in the liver of some people. These people have propyl alcohol in their body. All cancer patients (100%) have both propyl alcohol and the intestinal fluke in their livers. The solvent propyl alcohol is responsible for letting the fluke establish itself in the liver. In order to get cancer, you must have both the parasite and propyl alcohol in your body [3:1-2].

Clark further alleges:

 The adult liver fluke -- which she misspells as Faciolopsis buskii -- "stays stuck to our intestine, (or liver, causing cancer, or uterus, causing endometriosis, or thymus, causing AIDS, or kidney, causing Hodgkin's disease)." [3:4] Or the pancreas, causing diabetes; the brain, causing Alzheimer's disease; the prostate (causing prostatitis; or the skin if you have Kaposi's sarcoma [3:35].
 As soon as there are adults in the liver. . . . a growth factor, called ortho-phospho-tyrosine appears. Growth factors make cells divide. Now YOUR cells will begin to divide too! Now you have cancer. . . . Having propyl alcohol in your body allows the fluke to develop outside of the intestine [3:8].
 When the fluke and all its stages have been killed, the ortho-phospho-tyrosine is gone! Your cancer is gone [3:9].
 Clearly, you must do 3 things: (1) Kill the parasite and all its stages; (2) stop letting propyl alcohol into your body; and (3) flush out the metals and common toxins from your body so you can get well [3:10].
 It is not unusual for someone to have a dozen (or more) of the parasites I have samples of. You can assume that you, too, have a dozen different parasites [3:10].
 Three herbs, used together, can rid you of over 100 types of parasites: black walnut hulls, wormwood, and common cloves [3:11-12]. But the amino acids ornithine and arginine improve this recipe [3:15].
 Use of these five products will kill the cancer-causing fluke in the first five days and the remaining parasites in another two weeks [3:19].
 It takes 5 days to be cured of cancer regardless of the type you have. Surgery, radiation, or chemotherapy can be canceled because, after Clark's recipe cures the cancer, it cannot come back [3:introductory passage].
 All metal (fillings, crowns, bridges, etc.) should be removed from the mouth, and all teeth with root canals should be extracted, because their presence damages the immune system [3:46-48].
 To prevent recurrence, stay on a maintenance program of killing parasites and give yourself a high-dose program at least twice a year. Also treat all family members and household pets [3:23-26].
 The method is 100% effective in stopping cancer regardless of the type of cancer or how terminal it may be. It follows that this method must work for you, too, if you are able to carry out the instructions. [3:120]
 No matter what kind of cancer you have (or HIV or pains or weakness), a complete program of lifting the burdens on your immune system will miraculously clear it up. [3:372]
All of the above notions are absurd. In a recent talk that attacked widespread misbeliefs about parasites, the president of the American Society of Parasitologists noted that if Clark's pseudoscientific claims were correct, "the medical establishment and . . . professional pathologists are guilty of a gigantic and cruel fraud on the public." [4]
Patients who "cleanse" their intestines with Clark's recommended herbs may excrete what they think are parasites. However, in one instance I know of, a specimen of "parasites" turned out to be citrus fibers, presumably from grapefruit juice used for the "cleanse." In another, reported in a medical journal, the "parasites" turned out to be ordinary fecal material [5].

Phony Devices

Clark is also using and promoting two devices. Her Syncrometer is claimed to identify diseased organs and toxic substances by noting whether the device makes various sounds when "test substances" are placed on a plate [3:373-427]. The device is simply a galvanometer that measures skin resistance to a low-voltage current that passes from the device through a probe touched to the patient's hand. Various models for home use can either be commercially purchased or made by the patient. Clark's "Zapper" is a low-voltage device that supposedly kills parasites, bacteria, and viruses with electrical energy, but does not harm human tissue. Its use is based on Clark's notion that all living things broadcast a characteristic range of radio frequencies and that the device can issue counter-frequencies that kill unwanted organisms [6]. Neither device has any genuine diagnostic or therapeutic value.
Clark's books, herbal products, and "Zapper" devices said to be built to her specifications are marketed through many Web sites, one of which is the Self Help Resource Center, administered by Clark's son Geoff. The Self-Health Research Center's "Testing Division" offers "synchrometer classes" twice a week, "scheduled as needed," for $175 [7]. Geoff also issues certificates for Zapper devices that are "within specifications found in Dr. Clark's books." The devices range in price from about $10 for a simple model to more than $200 for devices that also make colloidal silver.
Her ideas are also advocated by the Dr. Clark Research Association, a group founded in 1998 by David P. Amrein, a Scientologist who describes himself as a freelance consultant in finance and taxes. Membership, which costs $40 per year, includes a subscription to the Dr. Clark Research Association Bulletin, which Amrein edits. The November 1999 issue stated that the Bulletin had a circulation of 1,500.
In November 1999, the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission announced that it had stopped an Australian company (Raylight Pty Ltd) from advertising that its "Parasite Zapper" passes an electric current through a person's blood and is effective against the AIDS virus, parasites, hepatitis, herpes, obesity, and other serious conditions. The company also agreed to provide refunds to consumers who felt they had been mislead [8].

Case Histories

Pages 119-372 of The Cure for All Cancers contain "case histories" of 138 cancer patients, of whom 103 were "cured" and 35 who "did not carry out instructions or could not be followed." The standard way to determine whether a treatment is effective is to carefully record the nature of the patient's disease before treatment and to determine the patient's condition indefinitely. Clark's reports contain little information about the patient's history and no indication that Clark performed any physical examinations. The only follow-up reports are for a few patients who returned for further treatment -- usually a few weeks later. Cancer treatment results are normally expressed in terms of cancer-free status or survival over periods of years. Five-year survival rates are a common measure. Clark claims she can tell that patients are cured as soon as their ortho-phospho-tyrosine test is negative -- within days or even a few hours after her treatment is begun. This claim is preposterous.
Thirty-eight of the 103 reports indicate that the patient had been medically diagnosed with cancer, and most of these 38 had received standard treatment. In 59 other cases, however, there was no indication that the patient had undergone any medical test or treatment that would indicate the presence of a cancer. (In 10 other cases, which Clark diagnosed as HIV infection, there was no history suggestive of AIDS. In the rest, it was not clear whether the patient had been medically diagnosed with cancer.)
Judging from the reports, Clark's judgments were based entirely on the results of her own peculiar diagnostic tests. If "ortho-phospho-tyrosine" was found in the blood, the patient had cancer. If a "protein 24 antigen" was found in the blood, the patient had AIDS. And, anywhere from a few hours to several weeks later, if these tests became negative, Clark considered the patient cured. The book describes how some of the patients who had consulted Clark for other problems were startled to hear they had cancer or AIDS.
None of the reports provides any basis for concluding that Clark's treatment has the slightest value. The majority of the people described in the 103 case reports did not have cancer. Of those that did, most had received standard medical treatment or their tumors were in their early stages. In these cases, Clark pronounced them cured but did not follow what happened after they left her clinic -- so she could not possibly know how they did afterward. In some cases, she counted patients as cured even though she noted that they died within a few weeks after she treated them.
Two people who seem knowledgeable have informed me that Clark's borther, Henry Regehr, died of cancer depite treatment by her.

Legal Trouble

In September 1999, Clark was arrested in San Diego, California, based on a fugitive warrant from Indiana, where she faced charges of practicing medicine without a license. In November, a former patient filed suit accusing her of negligence and fraud.

The civil case was filed by Esther and Jose Figueroa of New York City against Clark, the Dr. Clark Research Association, Century Nutrition, and several associated individuals. Mrs. Figueroa, who had been medically diagnosed with breast cancer, sought treatment in September 1998. The court papers state that she was told:
 Dust from her apartment was responsible for her breast cancer.
 Returning to her apartment would place her at special risk to develop leukemia because of her blood type.
 She had asbestos, lead, and a lot of copper in her system.
 The Syncrometer detected a parasite called "rabbit fluke" inside her breast.
 She also had E. coli, asbestos, and salmonella due to improper food sterilization.
 Several teeth should be removed and "cavitations" in her lower jaw should be scraped out.
The suit also charged that
 Clark subsequently arranged for all of Mrs. Figueroa's front and molar teeth to be removed, prescribed more than 30 dietary and herbal supplements to be taken during a 12-week period, and badly burned her breast while administering treatment with a "Zapper" device.
 During the 3-month period of treatment, the tumor increased from 1.5 cm to 14 cm.
 Despite this fact, Mrs. Figueroa was falsely told that she was getting better, that tests for "cancer markers" were negative, and that pain she was experiencing did not reflect persistence of her cancer.
In 2001, the Figueroa family indicated to their attorney (Christopher Grell) that undergoing a deposition would be too stressful for Mrs. Figueroa. Mr. Grell therefore petitioned the court to withdraw from the case, and the case ended shortly afterward.

More Legal Trouble

In February 2001, Mexican authorities inspected Century Nutrition and ordered it to shut down. According to a report in the San Diego Union Tribune, the clinic had never registered and was operating without a license [17]. In June, the authorities announced that the clinic would be permitted to reopen but can offer only conventional care. The clinic was also fined 160,000 pesos (about $18,000). Both the order and the fine are being appealed through the Mexican courts [18].
The FTC has taken action against Marvin and Miguelina Beckwith, of Blaine, Washington, who had been selling Zappers and herbs through their "cancercure.com" Web site [19]. Court documents state that the Beckwiths, doing business as Western Dietary Products, Inc., had claimed that their "Zapper Electrical Unit" is effective against Alzheimer's and HIV/AIDS and that various herbal products -- including Black Walnut Tincture, Wormwood Tincture, and Cloves Tincture -- can treat and cure cancer, Alzheimer's, diabetes, arthritis, and HIV/AIDS and would make surgery and chemotherapy unnecessary for persons with cancer [20].
The FTC's case was supported by three lengthy affidavits that dissected and thoroughly debunked Hulda Clark's theories and treatments. Among other things:
 Aron Primack, M.D., a cancer specialist who is Associate Professor of Preventive Medicine and Biometrics at the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Maryland, stated that, Hulda Clark's books "do not provide competent and reliable evidence" to support her claims [21].
 Peter W. Pappas, Ph.D., a prominent parasitologist and Professor Emeritis at the Ohio State University, stated (a) although cancer and AIDS are found worldwide, the parasite Clark blames for them is limited to South East Asia; (b) "Clark's 'case histories' represent an egregious example of a highly biased experimental protocol, and her theories are based on bad science"; and (c) "She clearly does not have a basic understanding of the most fundamental parasitological principles." [22]
 Joseph Pizzorno, N.D., the nation's top naturopath, stated that, "No research is presented demonstrating that the Zapper has any physiological effects, let alone ability to kill parasites or cure cancer. The claim that mild electrical shocks to the skin can eliminate intestinal parasites is, frankly, preposterous." [23]
In December 2001, the case was settled with a consent agreement that prohibited the defendants from making any unsubstantiated claims that their products are effective in treating or alleviating any disease or condition or that use of their products in the treatment of cancer makes surgery or chemotherapy unnecessary [24]. Although Clark and her family were not parties to this action, it might discourage others from marketing what she recommends.
On June 16, the National Council Against Health Fraud filed suit against Marvin Beckwith, Western Dietary Products, David Amrein, the Dr. Clark Research Association, and several others who have been selling Zappers and/or herbal products with claims based on Hulda Clark's books. The suit charges that the defendants violated the California Business and Professions Code by making false advertising claims for the products [25].

Nadia, I hope this information is helpful. Sorry its so long, but Clark has built up quite a track record with her bizarre claims and criminal activities.

Best regards,
Chicken Soup

Avatar universal
I did the cleanse after the gallbladder was removed.  I understand the skepticism that is felt in this forum.  I try to take advantage of both conventional and alternative medicine.  I did the cleanse because several years ago I'd heard several women talking about it and they were quite impressed with the results.  I was troubled by the fact that I had chronic cholecystitis and no evidence of what was causing it.  The stones are not always located in the gallbladder and they do look exactly like what you see in medical books. They are easily recongnizable once they are cleansed.  The recipe I used has been used for a very long time even before Dr. Clarke. Is it better to leave them in your liver and biliary tree and allow them to accumulate?
Avatar universal
I should also mention that I did check with my doctor prior to doing the cleanse and got her approval.
Avatar universal
What you are cleansing actually are not stones. In one of Patriot's previous posts, she claimed that her liver flush removed between 5,000 and 6,000 stones from her Liver. Obviously, 5,000 to 6,000 stones in her liver would have caused her liver (and probably her abdomen as well) to explode from sheer size and volume.
Avatar universal
The majority of people with gallstones never become symptomatic.  This is a quote from a mainstream medical textbook called "The Washington Manual of Surgery, third edition", page 322.  That means that numerous people have gallstones and they lead perfectly normal healthy lives.
Avatar universal
Rather than trying discredit my advice.  Why not give Formark your testimonials about positive experiences you have had as an option to surgery.
Avatar universal
I asked my doctor about these liver cleanses and he sort of chuckled and told me to save my money.  You can't cleanse a liver with a pill or drink, regardless of how many times you do it.

I am a strong advocate of alternative or holistic medication.  I rather take a herb than a prescribed pill.  However, I investigate everything and if I read a profile like the one printed about Dr. Clarke, common sense would tell me to stay clear.

Avatar universal
I spent an hour looking in various medical books in a medical library.  I could not find any pictures of liver stones.  This is not listed in the index of any medical book I could find at the University library near my home.  So I am still waiting to read your description of what your stones look like.  What color are they, etc.  I am very interested to hear about them.  

28293 tn?1213140550
I'm really surprised that they let you do all this advertising on this board.

28293 tn?1213140550
Advertising your "curezone"

(ad nauseum)
Avatar universal
I have post cholecystectomy pain caused by possible sphyncter of oddi disorder.  I am seeing a gastroenterologist who is investigating this.  Prior to the cleanse I had horrible pain after eating accompanied by indigestion.  I only did the cleanse one time but noticed an improvement in my digestion right away.  The pain is chronic but is now bearable.  I don't feel the need to justify or defend my decision to do the cleanse, nor do I wish to describe the details of what the stones look like.  If you have had a bad experience with the cleanse please share it with us, otherwise you really have no basis for your claim that it is non productive.  The ingredients in the cleanse are grapefruit juice, water, olive oil and epsom salts.  They are harmless to the healthy individual.  Like I said before I consulted with my doctor prior to doing this and would recommend everyone to do the same.
Avatar universal
Ever notice that Formark has never posted a reply to any of this?  I think it is rather odd.  Because of the way this Formark phrased his/her question.  Just wondering if you two find it unusual at all (suspicious)?

Avatar universal
The owners of this List are trying to prevent such advertising. Unfortunately, all you need to gain access are multiple email addresses, which Hulda and her son, Geoff Clark, make available to people who are compensated by the Clark organization for posting messages on forums such as this. Their intent is to lead people to WEB sites owned by Clark and her associates'. There, the Clark's make a killing (unfortunately not always figuratively) from the sale of their books, recipes, zappers, and other "products". The Clark's are perfectly content to prey on the desperate for a living. Unfortunately, they aren't always just seperating those people from their money. In some instances, they are causing great injury and death, as witnessed by the wrongful death lawsuits against Clark and the fact she had to flee to Mexico. The "patriots" who are paid to sell Clark's nonsense do so fully aware that they are involved in a very sophisticated scam. It's all about money.

This is the downside of the Internet.
Avatar universal
Hi - I did read her bio - Chicken Soup posted it!

I have known a few people in my life that have experimented with the types of alternative medicines Dr. Clarke offers.  I specifically know two people who went to Mexico to some back alley clinic after reading or hearing about "the miracle cure for cancer, cancer is caused by ------(whatever they could come up with).  These two people are now dead.

I don't believe every doctor because I truly believe not every doctor knows medical science the way they would like to.  I have chronic gastritis and go to a specialist who still can't figure out what's causing it.  Do I use alternatives like drinking aloe juice and chewing DGL, sure I do and it helps.  

Unless I sat down eyeball to eyeball and met with Dr. Clarke, I would never do anything as questionable as a liver cleanse advertised on the internet.  But that's me.  I suspect it's not harmful but I also suspect it's not helpful either.  So if a person is seriously ill, he/she needs medical treatment from a doctor they can sit across the table from, not one on the internet.

And by the way, my first husband died of Hodgkins Disease at age 42.  Technically, he should only have lived 2 years.  He lived six years and I credit this to the doctors at the Mass General Hospital.
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