Fluid Retention

[LouLou230853]

My 10 year old Weimaraner has had an awful cough for a while now and we treated him for kennel cough. When the cough didn't clear I took him back to the vet. She has discovered that what we thought was just a fat belly is in fact fluid and carried out tests for liver and kidney function (all negative for problems) and feels that there is no tumour involved. She will be carrying out x-rays tomorrow to check his lungs. She has mentioned that she thinks it could be a heart problem and has said that if this is the case he can go onto medication which will give him another 2 years or so of good quality life.
In order to try and relieve the coughing, which she feels is being caused by the pressure of the fluid on the lungs, he has been taking diuretics since last night and, I am sure I might be imagining things, but his belly looks visibly less swollen this morning and I haven't heard him coughing.
If the problem is heart related, is there anyone who has experience with having their dog on the medication and what the quality of life for the dog is? I do not want my dog to suffer at all. we are also moving house to a much colder area in the next week and I am wondering if this will have an adverse effect on Grogor's health.
Thanks

[tonyb286]

Hi. Actually, this could be quite serious, so you absolutely need to get him to a good vet as soon as possible. It really won't wait until the end of the month, so borrow money if you have to, or try to look at local vets that will allow you to pay in installments, or ask at charity rescue dog shelters who might know of a vet that will help ANY dog in distress, regardless of payment up front.

My suspicions are that this is possibly heart related. The cough and swollen stomach are big symptoms. The swollen stomach in these cases are from fluid retention. The cough is from an inability to breath properly, due to many things but also from the fluid putting pressure on the lungs. If your dog is drinking more than normal, it could also be a kidney or liver related problem.

This is not something that can wait. Please do everything within your power to get her to a vet and ask that blood work is done to help the diagnosis. Tony

[hoochboy]

my hoochy has been il for 3 weeks now its started with a cough then turned into a chest infection he currently been on antibotics from the vets but since they have finished the cough has gone an his stomach has really swollen the swelling is spreading across to his private parts aswell ive rang vets who said as long as he drinking eating toilet etc no emercency but as I dnt get payed until the end of the month he cant see him until then? ie payment I thought it could be wind or twisted stomach due to him having a bad cough but has anyone any Idea of what it could be he has stopped eating today aswell so getting a bit concerned  thanks

[tonyb286]

Hi Louise. Great to hear Lily has fully recovered and that Grog is getting so much care and attention and is on the right road to recovery. You deserve a real pat on the back for being so dilligent with your babies - I'm sure you'll be happy from tomorrow, when you can be with them 24/7. All the best - and do keep us up to date with things. Tony

[LouLou230853]

Grogs had his last dose of Milbemax for the month yesterday. he was a bit down for an hour or so but perked up after that and wolfed his food down. He is still on rice and chicken with a bit of doggy gravy and has slimmed down somewhat (not a bad thing as he was rather overweight!) he is still bei8ng fed little bits at a time and we massage his gullet after his meal and he seems to be flourishing under that regimen. We are gradually introducing pellets back into his food and will continue monitoring him to see how he goes.
Lily is completely over the biliary and is back to her normal cheerful self.
Today is my last day of employment in the formal sector and it's farmlife for me from tomorrow, which is lovely as I can spend far more time with my "babies".
Will keep in touch via this forum. Thanks for all the good advice and support.
Louise

[tonyb286]

Hi Louise. Yes, you certainly have had a dreadfully traumatic month, that's for sure, but good news that things are working out well so far and that Grog is slowly improving. Fingers crossed that this process continues along that route and by the summer you can all settle into happier experiences at the farm. Big hugs from the UK, Tony

[LouLou230853]

Grog is definitely showing signs of improvement although he is still on a very restricted diet. He is due for the 3rd dose of Milbemax on Sunday and after that we will have to wait and see what the new vet recommends.
We have had another of our beloved dogs down with biliary last week. She has had a course of injections and steroids and she also is well on the road to recovery.
What a month we have had!
Trust you are keeping well.
Louise

[tonyb286]

That's fabulous news. Have a great day tomorrow. Tony

[LouLou230853]

Hi Tony,
Even better news to report today. My husband said that when he returned to our cottage on the farm last night he got a smile from the boy! My sister in law, Leanne, the one who is feeding him, emailed me to say that he is much perkier today - playing with Clio (our Irish Setter) and giving her love nibbles on her neck when they walked Leanne to the gate. He ate his food, with gusto, and gave Leanne lots of loves and kisses when they sat together on the patio step!
I have a newfound hope that we caught the worm in good time and that the medication is going to work and give him a great quality of life! I so look forward to seeing him again tomorrow and hope I see a huge improvement.
Have a happy Easter.
Louise

[tonyb286]

Hi Louise. It's great news that Grog seems to be getting better, albeit slowly and by degrees. If you are feeding chicken and rice, I wouldn't bother with the dry pellets just yet. You can always substitute the rice for cooked pasta, and even substitute the chicken with cooked white fish for variety (available at most good pet stores in the freezer). You could also try him on Green Tripe (it stinks when you cook it, but dogs love it and it's highly nutritional - you can also buy this in tins for convenience).

Do keep us up to date with his progress. It sounds like you have a fabulous well informed vet, who is clearly working wonders ... great stuff. It's nice to hear about a successful story, as so often we deal with so much tragedy on this site. Tony

[LouLou230853]

Thanks to you both for your comments and support. My sister in law (whose farm we will be living on) told me that Grog had a rather bad episode of vomiting yesterday, so she has taken to feeding him cooked chicken and rice 4 times a day and he has tolerated this really well. She will introduce a few dry pellets with his evening meal tonight to see how that goes.

I am blessed out of my socks to have a sister in law such as she is who loves dogs and who Grog has taken to like the proverbial duck to water.

Best regards,

Louise

[LouLou230853]

I was relieved but concernedat the diagnosis. Funnily enough, Spirocerca lupi was the first thing she mentioned when I took him in to check out his cough, and she said that there were cases where dogs were being treated for kennel cough over a long period of time and the problem was getting worse and no one thought to look for the parasite. So I was very blessed to have a vet that has made it her "duty" to learn about the SL worm and it's symptoms.

I know it is going to be a long hard road but as long as he is perking up and living a happier, stress free life, my husband and I have decided that it is more than worth giving Grogs a shot at it.

I am 200km away from them at the moment as Grogs started his new life as a farm dog on Saturday and I am still to finish work and move to the farm.

Will definitely give him a hug from you as well as plenty from me when i get there on Friday!

thanks for all the support and advice - i will keep you up to speed with his progress.

Louise

[tonyb286]

Hi Louise. Well done to your vet for getting a diagnosis of Spirocerca Lupi, which is a nasty parasite. Moving to the farm may prove a problem in continuing to control this in Grog, particularly if he's one of the many dogs that tend to root about and eat things he probably shouldn't. Of particular concern with this parasite are dung beetles, frogs, mice, lizards, and raw chicken scraps. You may therefore need to keep a really close eye on him and what he gets up to.

It's good that he seems to be feeling a little better. It should be noted that treating this condition is going to take time - and probably repeated treatments will be necessary to ensure the parasite is cleared from his system. Good news though that you now have a diagnosis, so treatment can be given and you now know what to look out for to prevent re-occurence.

There is still a chance this could cause long-term health issues, as some dogs can get cancerous growths on the eosophagus from these worms, so it may be worth having a 6 month check up at the vets over the next couple of years or so, just to be on the safe side.

Great news so far though. Give Grog a hug from me. Tony

[LouLou230853]

Hello Tony,
Grog had his scope on Friday and they found nodules in his oesophagus which is indicative of an infestation of Spirocerca Lupi. He has been put on a regimen of Milbarex (?) tablets in an attempt to clear these nasties up but the vet has still not ruled out megoesophagus completely. he has stopped coughing and is eating very well but he just doesn't seem to be a happy chappie. It could be the trauma of the move to the farm which happened on Saturday, the change in weather - it cooled down decidely over the weekend or just that the meds have made him feel a bit down. (He is also on a course of antibiotics) But I am hoping that he will soon be back to his normal self.
Will keep you up to speed with what is happening.
Have a great day! Louise

[tonyb286]

Hi Louise. Megoesophagus is unusual in a 10yr old dog, but it can be an indication of an underlying condition called Myasthenia Gravis. I am pleased you have read up about Megoesophagus and have decided to try to manage the condition. A process known as 'vertical eating' is something you have likely already found as part of your research into it, but if not, take a look at this on the internet (also known as Bailey chair megoesophagus). One of the best management techniques is to feed carefully with regular but smaller amounts of food, making sure the dog sits for 10 minutes immediately afterwards.

This can be quite intensive management, so I really commend you giving it a go. I'm sure Grog would thank you, if he could talk. Do keep us informed about how things progress - and if it indeed proves to be megaesophagus, please let us know any new management skills or techniques you pick up as this will be invaluable information for other owners with dogs with the same condition. Best wishes, Tony

[LouLou230853]

X-rays yesterday indicated that Grog is probably suffering with megoesophagus, which is not good news. the vet has also said that there is a worm / parasite which causes a blockage in the oesophagus which could lead to him displaying the same symptoms and is far easier to treat. he is having an endoscope this morning to see what the problem is. She has suggested that we consider putting him down if it is mega oesophagus but, having read up about it and seeing that there are ways of controlling this problem we might look at trying alternate methods for a while depending on the diagnosis. As long as his quality of life is not being compromised we feel that he deserves every chance.
Will keep you posted! As I am taking "early retirement" to move to the farm I will now have more time to spend with him and ensuring that he gets the right treatment / handling so maybe things will work out for the best in the long run.
Thanks so much for being a listening post for me. Louise

[tonyb286]

Hi. Having checked, I find that heartworm is very very rare in South Africa. Though there are a few cases each year, particularly caused by mosquittos at the coast or travelling in from neighbouring countries. It is certainly therefore still a possibility and worth checking with your vet. Fingers crossed for tomorrow - and I hope everything works out well for you both. Tony

[LouLou230853]

We are moving to a 22 Hectare smallholding in the Midlands of KwaZulu Natal and are going into winter there where the temperatures can get as low as -10C at times. this is reason why I was wondering how he will cope with the change! I'm sure he's going to love the wide open spaces though.

[LouLou230853]

Thanks so much for your responses. When I drop Grogs off tomorrow for the x-rays etc I shall mention these other conditions to her. Heartworm infestation is a new one for me. I live in South Africa and have had dogs for well over 40 years now and have never heard of any one having had heartworm infestation, so I don't think is a likelihood. He hasn't lost weight and is certainly not off his food (in fact I feed all 4 of my dogs together and when he has finished his bowl he goes around trying to see if any of the others have left one cube on theirs!) so I take that to be an encouraging sign.
I also have an Irish Setter of about the same age and I do know that she has a heart murmur, which doesn't seem to cause her any problems at all although we do monitor it.
I will certainly let you know what the outcome of tomorrows tests are.

[Ghilly]

Has the vet done a pathology on the fluid?  Ascites (fluid in the body cavity) is very common in the presence of a heart problem, however there is another condition called chylothorax that can cause the same symptoms.  

There is a fluid called chyle that is produced in the small intestine.  It is carried by the thoracic duct to the veins, but sometimes on its way to the veins it will leak into the chest cavity and put pressure on the heart and lungs.

The fluid is milky and whitish/yellowish in color.  It contains lymph.  When chyle accumulates in the chest cavity it often obstructs the lymphatic vessels.  These vessels then dilate and affect the tissues lining the chest cavity and covering the lungs.  The tissues then become inflamed, making breathing difficult.  Symptoms include coughing, trouble breathing, intolerance to exercise, anorexia, irregular heartbeat and pale gums and mucus membranes.  It CAN mimic the symptomes of congestive heart failure.

It can be caused by heartworm infestation, heart surgery, tumors, blood clots or even a fungal infection, but many cases of it are determined to be idiopathic, or of unknown origin.  To diagnose this, the vet would need to draw off some of the fluid and have it checked for the presence of chyle.  If it IS chylothorax, medications can be prescribed to treat it, but the dog will have to be closely monitored for several years to make sure it doesn't return.  In some dogs, once it occurs, they cannot be successfully treated and it will return.  On the other hand, sometimes it even resolves itself.

Please keep us updated as to how your dog is doing and how things go with your move.

Ghilly

[tonyb286]

From the symptoms you have given, it does sound very much like a heart condition. Further tests, bloodwork and xrays by your vet will determine the type of heart condition and how it can best be treated. Some heart conditions are a temporary phase, often brought about by other conditions (such as heartworm); while others are physical malfunctions of the heart itself, causing permenant illness. Until you have a clear diagnosis of exactly what is wrong - and how it might be treated - you cannot really consider what quality of life your dog might have. Many dogs live very full, active and happy lives, even with a heart condition - though some may always need regular medication and slightly more attention from a vet.

It is good that your best friend is looking better on the diuretic. Dogs are amazing creatures and rarely show any visible signs of pain (it's an instinctive dog thing, as any dog that does show pain is often discarded by other pack members or is set upon by them). The consequence is that it can be quite difficult for owners to recognise when their dog is feeling unwell, so we must often rely on what physical changes there are more than anything else. I don't really understand how your vet can say your dog may have another 2 years or so of good quality of life, as without a true diagnosis about the exact heart complaint he might have, it is impossible to say how many years of good quality life he can look forward to.

I think rather than worrying or thinking about the worse-case scenario, try to be positive and wait until you know precisely what heart complaint your dog might have. You can then talk the pros and cons about treatment and expected lifespan over with your vet - and with others on this forum. Please do let us know what your vet says about Grogor's condition, once diagnosed. Tony