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Lab Results for My Dog
I just obtained medical records from my dog's veterinarian. My dog is 13 years old --- approx. 25 lbs. and is relatively in good health, except he has chronic diarrhea and no diagnosis yet. I noticed on his lab results that he has an elevated GGT (17 ---- NORMAL RANGE 1-12) and also an elevated creatinine (2.1 ---- NR 0.5-1.6). I was wondering if anyone here could tell me what could be going on with him ? My old vet thinks it could be inflammatory bowel disease.
I appreciate any thoughts/opinions.
Thanx !
I appreciate any thoughts/opinions.
Thanx !
I'm sorry you have received such bad news from your vet.
A creatinine level of 15 is extremely high and is indicative of severe kidney failure. Has your dog been acting normal up until he stopped eating or has he been slowing down and acting kind of funny and then finally he stopped eating and started vomiting everything he tried to eat? If he was absolutely fine until he stopped eating I would worry that he got into something that caused the kidney failure (ie, some type of poisoning) and that this is not just an idiosyncratic episode of kidney failure. It's not impossible for a four year old dog to fail, but it's certainly not the norm, either.
I would take him to another vet for a second opinion and I would Google "home cooked diets for dogs in renal failure". You'll come up with HUNDREDS of links that have recipes so that you can cook for him at home and that way you can keep the protein low. Because protein is metabolized and turned into nitrogen during digestion you want to make sure that the nitrogen stays low in order to keep his BUN (Blood Urea Nitrogen) levels low. The more severe the kidney disease, the lower you want to keep the protein.
We cannot prescribe anything for him because we are not vets. It also wouldn't be a good idea to have ANY vet prescribe something for him online without the benefit of having examined him since there are so many different "what ifs" when it comes to something like this, you want to make sure that the attending veterinarian has every advantage in prescribing treatments for this dog.
I would take him to a veterinary college and let the students examine him. It's not like it sounds. The students that would be working on him would be those that are in their last year and getting ready to graduate, and they work under the direct supervision of their professors who are veterinarians (the professor/doctors are THERE in the clinic WITH them). They have access to state-of-the-art diagnostic equipment and medicines and you may find someone who has ideas on how to treat something like this that you wouldn't find in the "outside" world because the treatment is too new. It's worth a try, anyway. Also, Tony has a forum for people whose dogs have kidney failure right here at MedHelp. If you stop by you may find someone who can answer your questions from their own personal experience. Here is a link to them: http://www.medhelp.org/forums/Chronic-Kidney-Failure-in-Dogs/show/1809
Best of luck to you, please let us know how things go for your pupper.
Ghilly
A creatinine level of 15 is extremely high and is indicative of severe kidney failure. Has your dog been acting normal up until he stopped eating or has he been slowing down and acting kind of funny and then finally he stopped eating and started vomiting everything he tried to eat? If he was absolutely fine until he stopped eating I would worry that he got into something that caused the kidney failure (ie, some type of poisoning) and that this is not just an idiosyncratic episode of kidney failure. It's not impossible for a four year old dog to fail, but it's certainly not the norm, either.
I would take him to another vet for a second opinion and I would Google "home cooked diets for dogs in renal failure". You'll come up with HUNDREDS of links that have recipes so that you can cook for him at home and that way you can keep the protein low. Because protein is metabolized and turned into nitrogen during digestion you want to make sure that the nitrogen stays low in order to keep his BUN (Blood Urea Nitrogen) levels low. The more severe the kidney disease, the lower you want to keep the protein.
We cannot prescribe anything for him because we are not vets. It also wouldn't be a good idea to have ANY vet prescribe something for him online without the benefit of having examined him since there are so many different "what ifs" when it comes to something like this, you want to make sure that the attending veterinarian has every advantage in prescribing treatments for this dog.
I would take him to a veterinary college and let the students examine him. It's not like it sounds. The students that would be working on him would be those that are in their last year and getting ready to graduate, and they work under the direct supervision of their professors who are veterinarians (the professor/doctors are THERE in the clinic WITH them). They have access to state-of-the-art diagnostic equipment and medicines and you may find someone who has ideas on how to treat something like this that you wouldn't find in the "outside" world because the treatment is too new. It's worth a try, anyway. Also, Tony has a forum for people whose dogs have kidney failure right here at MedHelp. If you stop by you may find someone who can answer your questions from their own personal experience. Here is a link to them: http://www.medhelp.org/forums/Chronic-Kidney-Failure-in-Dogs/show/1809
Best of luck to you, please let us know how things go for your pupper.
Ghilly
hi i have a four year old rottweiler . He has stopped eating for a week and vomited everything that was fed. I took him to the vet and the lab results showed a really high creatinine level ( 15) . The vets have told me he has a slim chance for survival. I am not giving up on him so i need help on saving him. Please can you prescribe on treatments for him.
When I spoke with my former vet on the telephone (after my husband took my dog to the ER... I couldn't wait anymore for her to return my call), she sounded sort of stunned.... like she had just realized that she made a huge mistake.
I think I will write her a letter... it will be very polite and formal. I will also attach a copy of the amount my husband paid for the ER visit. If she refuses to respond to my letter, then I will take your good advice and report her to the American Veterinary Medical Association and my state's licensing board.
Like you, I am concerned that this woman is practicing and may continue to make the same mistakes that she made with my dog. I think she needs to be notified and also reimburse us for expenses that we paid as a result of her mistake. I am just thankful that my best friend is still alive and pretty healthy for his age. I love my dog so much.
Hooray! I'm so glad you and your dog found a competent vet and you have not only a diagnosis, but a treatment. :-D
Beware of c-diff. It's quite nasty and difficult to get rid of, so be sure to do poo patrol on a daily basis.
On the issue of the other vet... it's up to you of course, but it all depends on how much time and mental agony you're prepared to put into the payment demand. I agree he screwed up - big time - but from a legal standpoint, he caused no lasting harm. Then again, the "no lasting harm" is due to your own diligence in getting a second opinion. If your original vet has any sense of ethics and decency, he will want to (1) know the ultimate outcome of the case, and (2) refund at least some of the money you spent on useless and potentially harmful medication.
I'm trying to put myself into your shoes, and in this sutation I would definitely want the first vet to know the new facts. You just might save another dog and owner from the same heartbreak by informing him. Sad, but I can't tell you how many times I've educated my own doctors! The question for me is then, do you address this issue over the phone, in person, or in writing? Sometimes it helps to write a letter first just to get your thoughts in some kind of logical order, and use that as a guideline for a personal discussion. Try to be polite and informative rather than pejorative and demanding when you begin the process. Have a dollar amount in mind before you talk to him about refunding fees.
If you get nowhere in person, then send a letter by certified mail with signature confirmation. Failing that, copy everything to the American Veterinary Medical Association and your state's licensing board. A judge and court of law would doubtfully find negligence since your dog did not die nor is he permanently harmed. Sad, but that's the way the law works. Ethically, I think the first vet owes you some compensation and if he refuses, the "powers that be" need to know what happened. I'll be interested to hear Ghilly's take on this since she worked in the business for many years. You may want to PM her if she misses your update.
Ultimately, this is wonderful news! :-)
Beware of c-diff. It's quite nasty and difficult to get rid of, so be sure to do poo patrol on a daily basis.
On the issue of the other vet... it's up to you of course, but it all depends on how much time and mental agony you're prepared to put into the payment demand. I agree he screwed up - big time - but from a legal standpoint, he caused no lasting harm. Then again, the "no lasting harm" is due to your own diligence in getting a second opinion. If your original vet has any sense of ethics and decency, he will want to (1) know the ultimate outcome of the case, and (2) refund at least some of the money you spent on useless and potentially harmful medication.
I'm trying to put myself into your shoes, and in this sutation I would definitely want the first vet to know the new facts. You just might save another dog and owner from the same heartbreak by informing him. Sad, but I can't tell you how many times I've educated my own doctors! The question for me is then, do you address this issue over the phone, in person, or in writing? Sometimes it helps to write a letter first just to get your thoughts in some kind of logical order, and use that as a guideline for a personal discussion. Try to be polite and informative rather than pejorative and demanding when you begin the process. Have a dollar amount in mind before you talk to him about refunding fees.
If you get nowhere in person, then send a letter by certified mail with signature confirmation. Failing that, copy everything to the American Veterinary Medical Association and your state's licensing board. A judge and court of law would doubtfully find negligence since your dog did not die nor is he permanently harmed. Sad, but that's the way the law works. Ethically, I think the first vet owes you some compensation and if he refuses, the "powers that be" need to know what happened. I'll be interested to hear Ghilly's take on this since she worked in the business for many years. You may want to PM her if she misses your update.
Ultimately, this is wonderful news! :-)
I just returned from the vet and I'm so glad that I switched vets. I think I have a competent veterinarian this time. Unlike my previous veterinarian, he knew why my dog's creatinine was elevated. He said that this is common in older dogs.... and that the result (2.1) is elevated, but nothing to worry about at this time. As far as his chronic diarrhea, he simply did one stool test and found a bacteria (a form of C-Diff) in my dog's stool ! He couldn't believe that my previous vet had not tried to treat him first with antibiotics. He said that is what they normally do first. He was also shocked at the amount of Prednisone that she prescribed for him back in September and felt that it was an overdose.
What do you think ? I'm considering obtaining medical records from that ER visit and I'm going to try to get my previous vet to pay.
GREAT decision! It never hurts to get a second opinion, particularly when your own vet doesn't seem to be getting anywhere. Let us know what the new one has to say. :-)
Thank you for your responses. I'm actually taking my dog to see a NEW vet today. I was diappointed with his other vet.... I feel that she prescribed too much prednisone for him in September (I wrote a post about it in here). It was 40MG daily and he had a severe reaction to the drug. My husband immediately took him to a vet hospital and they said that she had prescribed him the maximum dosage. They agreed that it was too much and especially for a dog who is 13 years. His heart was racing so fast, that they couldn't even get a pulse on him.
I also don't have any possible explanations for the high creatine. I mean this dog is active and appears to be very healthy (except diarrhea, cataracts & some hearing loss) He even initiates playing with my other dog, who weighs 50 lbs.
I also don't have any possible explanations for the high creatine. I mean this dog is active and appears to be very healthy (except diarrhea, cataracts & some hearing loss) He even initiates playing with my other dog, who weighs 50 lbs.
The diarrhea with the elevated creatinine has me stumped as well. I don't know how the two would coincide. My advice is to do what Jaybay said and go to the "Ask A Vet" board and seewhat kind of information you can get over there. And yes, please let us know what you find out!
Ghilly
Ghilly
What other tests has your vet done? The elevated creatinine makes me wonder about kidney failure, but that doesn't usually present with diarrhea.
I think your best medical opinion would come from one of our veterinarians here at Med Help. Scroll down and watch on the right side of this page for for the "Ask a Vet" link. There is a daily question limit on that forum, so keep trying until your post makes the board.
I'm very curious to know what the ultimate diagnosis turns out to be, so PLEASE come back and let us know!
I think your best medical opinion would come from one of our veterinarians here at Med Help. Scroll down and watch on the right side of this page for for the "Ask a Vet" link. There is a daily question limit on that forum, so keep trying until your post makes the board.
I'm very curious to know what the ultimate diagnosis turns out to be, so PLEASE come back and let us know!
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