Free ECG lessons

[mariop]

This site has a nice tutorial on ECG.  You can download the file to your computer and read it at leasure.

http://library.med.utah.edu/kw/ecg/index.html

[CollegeGirl143]

"Dear Tony,

This is a reminder that it is illegal to post copyrighted information on our website. A one or two sentence excerpt is all that is allowed. Your cooperation will be appreciated.

Wishing you all the best"

Im sorry, but i do believe the words "illegal" and "copyrighted" are clearly used there... As someone who obviously thinks of himself as intelligent, i doubt that the implication was lost on you...I was not the one accusing you of anything, i believe the only thing ive ever brought up to anyone on the forum was the treads being started solely as a chance to spam a link, as i personally find it annoying, and it just so happens medhelp supports my point of view on that... the fact that you were warned on an appearant suspect of copyright infringment is a completely different ball game, and as someone who claims to have an extensive amount knowledge in the field, ide assume you would know how to appropriate use and cite information, and be able to use that 1st grade education and read that this website forbids that...

Is it so difficult to stand on your own two feet and not have to use other peoples works to try and validate yourself?

[va_tony]

"Tony, I find it flattering you'de like to blame your accusation of plagerism on me :) "

I certainly was not accused by medhelp of plagiarism (gosh, I even know how to spell the word) and I don't believe I violated anyones copyright, since everything I posted was from a public-domain source for which I gave attribution. I believe Medhelp's warning derives from a legal concept called "an abundance of caution" (probably based on their attorney's advice).

[CollegeGirl143]

Posting links to other websites or individuals, without prior written permission from Med Help


there you go :) A url is infact, a website address, piddle about the terminology all you want, im sure for two people who hold themselves in such high reguard, can understand such a simple statement

This is clear as a day people... If you'de like to post links, simply get prior permission, ive done it.. its not difficult :)

Tony, I find it flattering you'de like to blame your accusation of plagerism on me :) i dont see where you posted a link, but if i had, i would have said something to you directly as i have to mariop :).... Maybe the thought has escaped you that something you apperantly did was copyright infringment .... imagine that!

[CollegeGirl143]

arthur.. Please dont continue to comment on my posts when you lack to forsite to understand them... My comment about plagerism is in reguards to the folks who sidestep the link rule and just directly quote studies.Do you understand what plagerism is? .

Nowhere does it say only live links are banned... there is a link to the terms of use right at the top of the page, and it doesnt take a genious to understand it... it clearly says by posting here , you observe those terms, and posting a website address is clearly not allowed, you are disrespecting the very thing you are trying to be a part of, and i find it a bit rediculous that adults are infact, throwing temper tantrums, calling a medical website names, and threatening a coo because you dont agree with the terms of service.. perhaps a better outlet for such frustration would be to find some place that will accept that kind of behavior.. Dont let the door hit you on the way out if you cant find it in your hearts and minds to act like adults.



I find it hard to believe you also are personally knowledgable about the habits of "many" MD's... your "experience" in this matter would be none.

I dont believe i chide others for learning at all..What do you consider learning?? Looking up your disorder, reading on it, great, perfect, theres penty of info to be had..

Trying to teach yourself medicine is something completely else, and its dangerous...If you feel the need obsess so strongly about the issue and spend your days searching the internet in the attempt to "educate" yourself, you have every right to do that.. I have every right not to be subjected to it... If you have an earnest opinion, i would hope you have the intelligence and the maturity not to post studies and quote qualified people like a parrot because you are infact, unqualified to factually support your own opinion...

i believe i chide a select few people who take "learning" as an excuse to force opinions based on fallacy onto others... i find it extremely disturbing that a "well" individual would have nothing better to do than sit on a support board and tell suffering people his theories about their mortality... I find it extremely disturbing a "well indvidual" considers buying thousands of dollars worth of medical equiptment to experiment on ones self, or shock themselves with an electric fence..

Yep.. sounds like a well individual to me :)

[va_tony]

I also received a warning today.  I guess somebody reported me (gee, I wonder who?) . It didn't mention anything about links or URLs though.  It simply said:

"Dear Tony,

This is a reminder that it is illegal to post copyrighted information on our website.  A one or two sentence excerpt is all that is allowed.  Your cooperation will be appreciated.

Wishing you all the best,

MedHelp.org"

I will, of course respect Medhelp's wishes. However, I did write back to them asking about URL clarification-- as Arthur said, strickly speaking a link (short for hyperlink) is not an URL. BTW this distinction is currently being tested in the courts.

I'm not a medical doctor and so I thought it would be appropiate to back up any opinions I give with a quote from a respected medical source. This is not plagiarism because by adding the URL and identifying the source, I have given proper attribution. I have been the Editor of a scientific journal and know the distinction between plagiarism and proper citation. I also fail to see why posting a URL is copyright infringement since such a web address simply provides a way to contact the copyright owner directly, who then chooses to make the copyrighted material freely available or not. All of my URLs were to trusted medical sources like medical journals, medical teaching hospitals, medline, American Heart Association, etc.

I am not on a crusade here.  I'm simply giving my views.  If medhelp doesn't want me to post URLs, I won't,  But I can't help but wonder if the true reason isn't copyright concern (which other heart boards seem not to share to this degree) or if it's an attempt to limit the flow of info not provided by the site doctor or by personal physicians (or perhaps as CollegeGirl believes, to limit the amount of confusion we have).

Best wishes everyone

Tony

[arthur]

"Nothing in life is to be feared.  It is only to be understood." Marie Curie

Unless we know enough about an issue, we shan't be able to ask the doctor a probing question, not shall we be able to understand the answer.  We shall indeed step back into the world of the witch doctor and subjects taboo.

ECGs are really very simple.  To understand the basics is not difficult.  To understand the nuances, that's a different story...even computer algorithms are too simple-minded to do a good job of that.  I think the learned patient gets that.

There are folks in this forum that constantly tell us to avoid trying to learn the hows and whys of a thing, fearing such knowledge be misunderstood, misinterpreted, and misused.  Apparently they fear that we are likely to think we know enough about medicine to practice on ourselves and others.  Very liberal thinking, that.  Almost like a parent admonishing a child.

Alas, the conundrum... stay simple-minded and rely on pure trust, or become smart and ask the right questions.  

-Arthur