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Arteries and cholesterol.
I had a heart attack (MI) in 1992 followed by a PE and pulse that went up 185 and diagnosed type 2 diabetic requiring insulin injections. Two years ago I changed my lifestyle and eating habits and with weight loss and exercise managed to come off insulin injections and 20 months later my HbA1c (without any medication ) is running at 6%. With this change which was achieved by not following standard dietary information encourages me to believe that further improvement can be gained blood pressure has dropped from 185/90 to 104/75 (with reduced medication). I had an angiogram in 2005 during which it was recommended to either have stents or a bypass which I declined to see if my new regime could generate improvement , which happened and have been told that surgery is not required at this stage. My diet has moved to organic plant based and would like to know if a simple non invasive test can be performed to assess changes with in my arteries either getting better or worse? Currently my cholesterol = 140 with Hdl =60 both of which I am trying to improve.
I keep looking at my family history to try and make a connection with heart disease. ALL my grandparents lived to be over 85 and smoked like chimneys, filterless cigarettes too. They used to spread pure fat from meat (dripping) onto bread or toast and eat lots of that. The major differences I can see is that there were no television, no car, no easy public transport system to get to work. This made people far more active and when I look at pictures of my grandparents they were all very thin. When work was scarce, my grandfather walked from birmingham to london (100miles) to get a job, then the family all moved down, walking and dragging belongings on carts. I remember when I was a kid, everyone in the street knew everybody. People could leave their house unattended with the front door safely left wide open. If anyones kids were being a nuisance, they were dealt with and it stopped. Now we see old people afraid to leave their homes at night, we see gangs of youngsters standing on virtually every corner. People can't leave their doors open unless they want to return to an empty house. People spend many hours a day watching tv or on computers and drive drive drive is the motto, not walking. We see drive in banks, drive in cinemas, drive in supermarkets where you pick up your order, or have it all delivered having ordered it online. Society has become very lazy. It has become quite fashionable to work from home now. People just have to walk from the bedroom to the PC and they are at work. When I was a kid, I had to walk half a mile each way to a phone box. Now we all have phones, and mobiles. Indoors, we dont even have to walk 2-5 metres to turn on the tv or change channel, we have remotes for everything. Anything for an easy life. I think as the easier lifestyle has increased, so has the stress. Everytime you earn a buck, about 10 different people want a piece of it now. I see no way around all this, unless people wake up and decide to use their legs.
I have had good results in clearing my arteries by taking Resveratrol.
There is some medical evidence to support this as well.
There is some medical evidence to support this as well.
Chelation therapy is not on my to do list but will watch developments with interest, for now I am going with natural only. Next week I am taking a cruise on a ship full of the things I probably should not eat but at least I can run round the deck a few times.
Please allow me to add a little more to this very interesting discussion. I accept completely that plant based diets can be a very healthy way of eating. I also accept that some people are genetically programmed to produce an overabundance of cholesterol, no matter what they eat. And I found it especially intriguing the information from recent research reported on NPR http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=15886898 which I posted earlier. There is a lot to learn and a whole lot more to know.
For myself, very much like Barbarella, statins work for me. I don't see much evidence that clogging arteries can be reversed. My goal with my health management-- with a combination of good diet, exercise, and appropriate medications (statins), I can maintain what I have and prevent further clogging of my cardiovascular system. Right now, at age 64, I am enjoying a very vigorous lifestyle and would like that to continue as long as possible.
Javelin, your approach is admirable and it seems to be working for you. My health management seems to be working for me. My message for others who read these posts, it to be aggressive in your health managment--but make your decisions on sound scientific and medical evidence. We are on different paths, but yet there is an argument to be made that both of us doing just that. There are often several ways to skin a cat.
For myself, very much like Barbarella, statins work for me. I don't see much evidence that clogging arteries can be reversed. My goal with my health management-- with a combination of good diet, exercise, and appropriate medications (statins), I can maintain what I have and prevent further clogging of my cardiovascular system. Right now, at age 64, I am enjoying a very vigorous lifestyle and would like that to continue as long as possible.
Javelin, your approach is admirable and it seems to be working for you. My health management seems to be working for me. My message for others who read these posts, it to be aggressive in your health managment--but make your decisions on sound scientific and medical evidence. We are on different paths, but yet there is an argument to be made that both of us doing just that. There are often several ways to skin a cat.
I totally agree that with your cholesterol level as high as you describe that taking statins are essential to bring your levels down to 150 or less. My cholesterol levels have never been as high as yours which gives me the option of using a lower level of statin and eliminate those types of food that got me into an unhealthy condition with numerous consequences. The books I have identified are certainly not advocating gambling with cholesterol they clearly demonstrate that bringing the levels down are critical (Cholesterol and Ldl) and with some people taking statins is essential but are equally saying that specific food types increase your cholesterol load and should be minimised or avoided. The choice is yours.
These countries with the lowest heart disease these people eat like that since they were small children. Most People in this country did not eat like that since childhood. If their cholesterol got high once they were adults it takes quite some time to get it down the natural way. I tried it for one year religiously and it only lowered mine 20 points. I still was walking around with a TC of 286 and an LDL of 231. Once your cholesterol is that high people like me cannot settle for a lowering of 20 points in one year despite exercise every day and healthy eating on top of it.
People with slightly to moderate elevated cholesterol this natural stuff is fine, but once you have severely elevated cholesterol, and the natural stuff/diet only lowers it 20 points in one year its time to cave in and take statins. Or play Russian Roulette and don't take statins, and if you are lucky your high cholesterol wont harm you and you will live to a ripe old age like some people did decades ago before cholesterol checks.
As for me, I have a family who loves me, and I do not gamble with high cholesterol. I know about all the books and studies who claim that cholesterol is not harmful, but none of these books and studies will tell you "where" your very high cholesterol will settle, of course not, because it settles in your arteries it for damn sure is not coming out in your bowel movements.
People with slightly to moderate elevated cholesterol this natural stuff is fine, but once you have severely elevated cholesterol, and the natural stuff/diet only lowers it 20 points in one year its time to cave in and take statins. Or play Russian Roulette and don't take statins, and if you are lucky your high cholesterol wont harm you and you will live to a ripe old age like some people did decades ago before cholesterol checks.
As for me, I have a family who loves me, and I do not gamble with high cholesterol. I know about all the books and studies who claim that cholesterol is not harmful, but none of these books and studies will tell you "where" your very high cholesterol will settle, of course not, because it settles in your arteries it for damn sure is not coming out in your bowel movements.
From what I have read cholesterol is of critical importance and on of the largest studies concluded (Dr Castelli) called the Framingham Heart study clearly demonstrated that the control group of over 50's that stayed below 150 had no cardiac events. Dr Esselstyn control group who all had had coronary events lowered their cholesterol and did in fact clean up the endothelium (inner surface of the artery) best illustrated by angiogram results two years apart with the second one showing arteries that were back to a near normal. So at the present time I have committed myself to the plant based journey with initial support from a 5mg statin until I get to 130/120 when I hope that unclogging kicks in. Home checking is not a substitute for a lab test but in my case has been a good indicator (0.2 variation) as I lower my cholesterol and BMI down to 23 which requires a weight loss of 17lbs.
Many of these studies have examined in great detail what various areas of the world eat and looked for correlation with heart disease. Those countries areas that are essentially plant eaters had the lowest incidence of heart disease.
Many of these studies have examined in great detail what various areas of the world eat and looked for correlation with heart disease. Those countries areas that are essentially plant eaters had the lowest incidence of heart disease.
I used to check my cholesterol at home, and I say its for the birds. I followed the instructions carefully, did exactly what they asked me to do yet everytime when I had the cholesterol test at the Lab it always was higher than at home. I don't want to spend money on something that will give me a "general idea" what my cholesterol is. No more home testing, I wait and see what the Lab comes up with.
As for "unclogging arteries" a Cardiologist told me once the arteries have blockages statins wont unclog them, but will prevent more clogging. He also told me that statins contain an anti inflammatory which is good for the heart.
I always wonder when years ago people eat what now a days is forbidden, didn't get their cholesterol checked yet lived to a ripe old age. I know people say that back then people didn't live that long, go through a grave yard, I did for the hell of it, a very big one, and I saw tons of gravestones where people lived to the age of 80, and older, some of these gravestones were as old as 100 yrs ago.
Heart disease back then was not as bad as it is now a days. We live in a fast paced stressful world now a days that doesn't help either.
As for "unclogging arteries" a Cardiologist told me once the arteries have blockages statins wont unclog them, but will prevent more clogging. He also told me that statins contain an anti inflammatory which is good for the heart.
I always wonder when years ago people eat what now a days is forbidden, didn't get their cholesterol checked yet lived to a ripe old age. I know people say that back then people didn't live that long, go through a grave yard, I did for the hell of it, a very big one, and I saw tons of gravestones where people lived to the age of 80, and older, some of these gravestones were as old as 100 yrs ago.
Heart disease back then was not as bad as it is now a days. We live in a fast paced stressful world now a days that doesn't help either.
I bought the Cardiochek which covers most of the cholesterol type checks and so far have had good correlation between the indicated reading and the lab test. It has been consistent but always lower.
One of the reasons that I arrived at MedHelp was linked with reading a large number of books and in particular, The China study by Colin Campbell PHD and another book Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease by a Dr Esselstyn a surgeon who had carried out many cancer operations at the Cleveland Clinic. Other people I watched with great interest is Dean Ornish.
As I said earlier if I had closely followed medical advice I would still be injecting insulin for my diabetes or taking metformin neither of which I take. When I study what doctors are taught at medical school it does seem to be more associated with how the body works and if system abnormalities occur how to apply medication or surgical intervention and limited focus on the impact food or drink. Dr Esselstyn has had one of the longest heart study groups with all participants having had bypasses or stents which he believes are only temporary fixes and have some risk. All of his patients who followed his plan essentially plant based survived without further cardiac events. The most impressive result was a doctor at the Cleveland clinic who for some reason could not have a bypass but did have an angiogram and with no other option went to a plant based diet with increased exercise and two years later had another angiogram that showed the cardio artery returned to an as new condition. It is critical with the plant based approach that you eat a variety of vegetables and fruit so that you are getting the necessary vitamin and nutrient intake.
Basically I feel that I have been operating my body beyond its intended design limits and above all am trying to get back as close as possible to my BMI when I was in the Air Force many years ago.
One of the reasons that I arrived at MedHelp was linked with reading a large number of books and in particular, The China study by Colin Campbell PHD and another book Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease by a Dr Esselstyn a surgeon who had carried out many cancer operations at the Cleveland Clinic. Other people I watched with great interest is Dean Ornish.
As I said earlier if I had closely followed medical advice I would still be injecting insulin for my diabetes or taking metformin neither of which I take. When I study what doctors are taught at medical school it does seem to be more associated with how the body works and if system abnormalities occur how to apply medication or surgical intervention and limited focus on the impact food or drink. Dr Esselstyn has had one of the longest heart study groups with all participants having had bypasses or stents which he believes are only temporary fixes and have some risk. All of his patients who followed his plan essentially plant based survived without further cardiac events. The most impressive result was a doctor at the Cleveland clinic who for some reason could not have a bypass but did have an angiogram and with no other option went to a plant based diet with increased exercise and two years later had another angiogram that showed the cardio artery returned to an as new condition. It is critical with the plant based approach that you eat a variety of vegetables and fruit so that you are getting the necessary vitamin and nutrient intake.
Basically I feel that I have been operating my body beyond its intended design limits and above all am trying to get back as close as possible to my BMI when I was in the Air Force many years ago.
I would agree that there is not much you can do to unclog your arteries. I don't agree with chelation as a treatment. Chelation therapy is approved for cleansing the body of heavy metals (like lead), but I don't believe has any approved use for heart or artery disease.
I would suggest reading "The South Beach Heart Program," by Arthur Agatston. Agatston is not only the South Beach Diet guy, but is also a renown cardiologist. His book leans heavily on "aggressive prevention" of heart disease, and he claims that in his practice, he rarely sees heart attacks among his patients who practice his program. I do know there is plenty of solid evidence of people having normal longevity and active lifestyles who have heart disease and manage it well without surgery or stents. There is also recent information that there is more to cholesterol than has been previously known. I would suggest listening to a program on National Public Radio that gives this perspective. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=15886898
You have raised some interesting issues and have certainly stimulated my thinking. Thank you.
I would suggest reading "The South Beach Heart Program," by Arthur Agatston. Agatston is not only the South Beach Diet guy, but is also a renown cardiologist. His book leans heavily on "aggressive prevention" of heart disease, and he claims that in his practice, he rarely sees heart attacks among his patients who practice his program. I do know there is plenty of solid evidence of people having normal longevity and active lifestyles who have heart disease and manage it well without surgery or stents. There is also recent information that there is more to cholesterol than has been previously known. I would suggest listening to a program on National Public Radio that gives this perspective. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=15886898
You have raised some interesting issues and have certainly stimulated my thinking. Thank you.
You can test your cholesterol at home? How do your home results compare to a regular labs result? I really wouldn't put too much stock in the idea that lowering cholesterol is going to unclog your arteries.
You sound like a good candidate for "chelation therapy".
You sound like a good candidate for "chelation therapy".
Very interesting. I did take simvastatin 20mg for 13 years without any problem but when the dose was increased to 40mg my ability to walk any distance declined almost immediately but initially did not connect the two. When the dose was lowered my ability to walk distances returned within days which made me think that statins had some adverse effects on muscles then it would logical that maybe the heart would suffer in the same way. Currently I take 5mg of Crestor ( which seems to have generated lots of adverse publicity) and month by month my general trend of lowering cholesterol and Ldl while at the same time increasing Hdl which I think is associated with eliminating animal fat intake. My doctor has never really advised that I should lose more weight or in fact more exercise and seems to be committed to medication rather than advocating stronger preventative measures that you can do yourself. Thank God for the internet.
I had the 64 slice ct scan four months ago and it revealed 40-70% blockages in two arteries. Dr. advised no stents because research strongly suggests stents do not affect longevety. Shortly after the scan I hiked 10 miles round trip up to 10500 feet for a day hike/fishing excursion in the Wind River Mountains in Wyoming, just a few minutes drive from my home. Should I become short of breath or something related that affects my lifestyle, then he recommended I consider stents.
He also suggested I become even more aggressive about prevention, which I have done with weight loss (I am now 205 lbs. on a 6'5" frame) and increasing my lipitor to 40mg/day. That brought my overall cholesterol down to 113. I have not been able to significantly affect my negative ratio--good HDL to bad LDL, however. I think there is much evidence that many folks like me, and perhaps you, too, are most strongly influenced by your genetic makeup.
The advice he gave me appears to be sound. Stents won't help your longevety, but can help the quality of your life if it becomes apparent that the problem impedes significantly on your lifestyle.
I asked the Dr. during my last checkup when I should repeat the CT scan. He said never. It would not yield any more useful information than it already has. If I develop symptoms suggesting the blockages are problematic, then they would do an angiogram and likely stents.
I hope this further information is useful to you.
He also suggested I become even more aggressive about prevention, which I have done with weight loss (I am now 205 lbs. on a 6'5" frame) and increasing my lipitor to 40mg/day. That brought my overall cholesterol down to 113. I have not been able to significantly affect my negative ratio--good HDL to bad LDL, however. I think there is much evidence that many folks like me, and perhaps you, too, are most strongly influenced by your genetic makeup.
The advice he gave me appears to be sound. Stents won't help your longevety, but can help the quality of your life if it becomes apparent that the problem impedes significantly on your lifestyle.
I asked the Dr. during my last checkup when I should repeat the CT scan. He said never. It would not yield any more useful information than it already has. If I develop symptoms suggesting the blockages are problematic, then they would do an angiogram and likely stents.
I hope this further information is useful to you.
I will check out 64 slice CT scan but may also search for some kind of artery calcium detecting home kit so that I can measure progress. My hope is that lowering cholesterol and Ldl and raising Hdl (which I can measure at home with a digital tester) reducing blood pressure ( currently still taking some BP medication) are a clear indication that my arteries are becoming clearer. When I am at the doctor or hospital I feel as though I am only been given two alternatives ,more medication or we have this low risk surgical procedure which to me is addressing the symptoms and not the root cause which I believe is caused by the food we eat and lack of exercise.
A 64 slice CT scan can image your coronary arteries with excellent accuracy. It is totally noninvasive and only takes a few minutes. It is not as good as an angiogram, but the trade off is no risk compared to the small risks associated with angiograms.
And by the way, congratulations on your health management. You have done well.
And by the way, congratulations on your health management. You have done well.
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