Ringing ears & Heart

[Yolo]

Thanks for opporunity!.  I am 50 and here is med history: 2 stents, dual pacemaker, ablation done all within 2 year timeframe.  Losing weight and taking meds religiously: ecotrin, hexarane, warfarin, Vit E, Dhea, 7 Keto, folic acid, metfarmin, Coenzyme Q10, Zildem.  in addition: sleep apnea and on machine.  Sleep better upright at night cause, my one side on pacemaker shifts that makes it uncomfortable for me to sleep on theother side of pacemaker, constant breathing problems when on bed and heart beat is fast & when I sit upright my heart relaxes and dont get this funny feeling on my chest. Q.Have lately experienced the ringing in ears. It is of concern and does it has it any relation to heart problems that im not aware of or could be developing?  

[ed34]

I have never heard ringing in my ears, or maybe I have but perhaps I have no idea what the term 'ringing' means?
I have had a faint whistle in my ears but this again can be due to many things. There is a safety system built into healthy ears where the cochlea is basically switched off the protect the ears if in a very noisy environment for a long period of time, and this produces a whistle with me. Sometimes this safety mechanism can switch in for no reason but only lasts about 30 seconds. But 'ringing' I can't say I've ever experienced this.

[Flycaster305]

Thatch, that was quite a rant.  

[Flycaster305]

Ringing in the ears can be as simple as a wax buildup or simply an aging issue, and certain drugs can make it worse.  That said, pay attention to your doctor, I suggest you not add even simple nostrums with discussing it with your cardiologist, and certainly don't remove drugs without doing the same.  

[KathleenMorosko]

I've had a pacemaker since 2003.
I just moved into a city and noticed my ears ringing a lot. I was wondering if anyone has this problem.
Also, I was wondering if it has anything to do with all the cellphone towers they are putting everywhere.
I know that cellphones can affect my device. Besides the ear ringing I also notice my heart racing at the same
time.

[Thatch]

Digitalis was one of the very first drugs to be standardized from a plant extract. It is ver dangerous, even today. I take it daily and not without side effects because so many things effect how cumulative it is.
I am not advocating anybody to stop taking warfarin and replace it with ginkgo and fish fat. There are studies out there, they just haven't been done in the US and the reason is there is no profit in it. The FDA will never approve treatments unless there are major double blinds done and it won't happen.
However there is a lot of information out there on what affects warfarin and how it does. It certainly makes sense to use things that have a proven benifit to humans in a carefully controlled way and be able to lower the dose of warfarin as much as possible and avoid warfarin poisoning. I have been hospitolized from this. Not fun. The thing is to be informed and make changes slowly in a controlled way and then stay consistant. That means using the same product from the same company every day just like the warfarin is being used. To do this takes a well thought out program and approach but it can be done safely and I believe to great benifit.
The object is to consistantly have the blood clot over a specified length of time. As long as it is consistant and of the proper duration it is theraputic. Your blood does not care if fish fat is slowing the clotting ability, but your vital organs sure do.
Doing this might mean getting blood work every week for a while. Personally I think it would be worth while doing so.
And the only product that I know of that might possibly be a quid pro quo substitute for warfarin is Nattokinase and that should be backed up by other anticlotting agents. If warfarin is prescibed as a cover your bets type of thing then the alternatives certainly merit some looking at.
I am glad your sister was taken off it after 6 mo. Wavebunny.

Thatch

[surfgirl]

Probably not, because there is not much scientific data suggesting that ginko, flax seed, etc is a quid pro quo substitute for coumadin.......and there are not many doctors who would risk the liabilty and the patients life by using an unorthodox treatment.   I do believe it can be over prescribed... but it is also  an important treatment.........my sister had a pulmonary embolism, resulting in a pulmonary infarct, and took coumadin for 6 months, period.  That makes sense.  But for people with conditions like a fib, it is a life saver.  Also, just because something is "natural" does not mean it is safe or without side effects.........I took a "natural" energy booster, I don't recall which one because I threw it out, and had V tach all day long.(besides a total personality change...lol)  Back in my Granny's day, people used to get a condition known as "dropsy".....their feet got swollen, and they got lethargic....CHF nowadays.  They made a tea from the foxglove plant, and the people improved.  Old fashioned digitalis, it was.  Of course, that can kill you as well, if it is not monitored, because you can reach toxic, ie poisonous, levels.  I am sure that happened to some over zealous folk back then too, and they died.

[Thatch]

My experience was that once I was put on it that there was never a consideration to take me off, even after it was not needed. I know about aspirin and I don't take it either. Coumadin will destroy soft tissue. I suffered memory loss, had my gums destryed and suffered liver damage. As far as I can tell it was not necessary. People who are put on this drug need to be very aware of the dangers involved in using it, only use it if it is the only course and only use it for the minimum amount of time possible. It took over a year for me to recover the ability to speak correctly again. I exhibited the symptoms of a stroke patient but never suffered a stroke. I took Coumadin for 12 years. The cardiologist was even interested enough to look up what I take instead of the rat poison. This stuff was designed to kill mammals who ingest it. The fact that it can be used to bust clots is a fluke. Nobody should take it lightly. It is dangerous. It is not meant to be used long term. It will shorten long term to mid term. If an alternative can be used, it should be. Doctors will not work with something they cannot control and in the US pharmacutical companies cannot patent natural products. So no major testing gets done because there is no money in it. It all boils down to money. If you use coumadin you are a cash cow. If you don't use coumadin you are not near the cash cow. It is my firm belief that it is standard protical to put people on coumadin if there is the slightest possability of clots and alternatives are not considered because they are not taught. They are not taught because there is not enough data. There is not enough data because there is not enough money to be made on things that cannot be patented. Coumadin should be used if nothing else works, not be standard protical.
Chemo therapy helps cancer patients, but they don't keep doing it if they survive. Poison is poison. Close monitering does not change that. I just want people to be aware of just what it is that they are taking and that for some that there is an alternative.
If someone showed you 2 plates of food and told you that they would both achieve the same results but one of the plates of food could cause you to possibly bleed to death, suffer liver damage, loose your teeth, maybe your toes, and the other was good for you in every way would you want to find out what was in the good for you in every way and why it was good? I know I would.
I understand completely that for some people that warfarin sodium is the only thing that can keep blood clots from forming and that they are playing for time. But I also know that there are many who have been placed on this dangerous chemical when they could control the condition themselves. Personally I want to be in control of my own health in every way that I can. I question each and every thing my doctor tells me, ask the pharmacist, look it up on the internet and still the side effect of growing boobs got past me on the spirolactone. That cost me and my insurance company a trip to the doctor, a trip to the hospitol, the price of an echo on my breasts all because my cardiologist negleted to inform me that spirolactone is almost identical to estrogen and a possible side effect was for men to grow breasts.
I ask questions of how thins work when I got my pacemaker optimized and was told "Why do you care? You can't feel it." End of discussion. How many people on coumadin are not getting full disclosure? Has anyone in this group have their doctor inform them that if they take daily good healthy amounts of fish fat, flax seed oil, borage oil, vitamin E, ginkgo biloba and other things that are beneficial that they can lower their dose of warfarin? Probably none. Lets hear it. Has anybody been informed by their doctor that they can lower their dose of warfarin by taking benifiting to health suppliments?

Thatch

[surfgirl]

Yeah, so?  It has side effects and has to be monitored............if you are in a car wreck, you need to be wearing a medical bracelet and can get vit K stat............have you read the side effects of aspirin?   You would never take another one. I just say it, coumadin, has saved lives, and I feel it is irresponsible to ever advise anyone to go off of it on their own.  I agree, if you have DCM, a low ef, and no clots per echo, it could be managed with something else, but if I had a fib, I would not go without it.  So I agree and disagree.

[Thatch]

Averys Complete Directory of Drugs page 814 Warfarin Sodium
Used to treat.we know that
WARNINGS It should not be given to people with known hypersensitivity to this drug, with active bleeding, a tendency to bleed or blood formimg disorders, pericarditus or bacterial endocarditus, uncontrolled high blood pressure, injury or surgery that is still healing, or recent surgery involving the eye or nervous system. It will be prescribed by experienced personell after a full medical assesment.

It should be given with carion to people with vascular disease or congestive heart failure, indwelling cathaters, gastrointestinal infection,high blood pressure, severe diabetes, seriuos vitamin C deficiancy, polycythemia vera, recent traumatic injury or liver impairment.
Warfarin is not to be used by women who are or may become pregnant.
Medical judgement is needed if breast feeding is being considered.
Warfarin should not be used by people who may not be able to to cope with self administration (for example, who are senile, alcoholic,psychotic, or uncooperative), nor should it be used where laboratory facilities are not available to perform periodic blood testing.
A doctor should be notified immediatly if any unusual symptoms or bleeding occur, such as pain, swelling or discomfort, prolonged bleeding from a cut, nosebleeds or bleeding gums from brushing, dark urine, red or black tar stools, headache, dizziness, or weakness.
A doctor must be contacted if any illness developes.
Activities that might cause traumatic injury (for example sports) should be avoided.
Warfarin may free tiny bits of plaque that may lodge(usually) in the smaller Blood vessels. This may result in sharp abrupt pain in a leg,foot, the toes back or flank.("Purpletoes syndrome"appears as mottled, purplish discoloration of the toes) More serious obstructions are possible, and may cause kidney insufficiency, pancreatitis, penile gangrene, hypertension, paralysis, or stroke. Warfarin should be discontinued at first sign of such phenomena.
INTERACTIONS
The following drugs may increase the levels and effects of warfarrin, with an increased risk of bleeding:acetaminophen, allopurinol,amiodarone hydrochloride,androgens,beta blockers,chloral hydrate,chloramphenicol,chlorpropamide, cimetidine,clofibrate, cotisosteroids,cyclosphosphamide ,disulfiram, erythromycin, fluconazole, gemfibrozil,  glucagon, hydantoins, ifosfamide, influenza virus vaccine, isoniazid, ketoconazole, loop diuretics, lovastatin, metronidazloe, miconazole, moricizine, naxidixic acid, omeprazole, propafenone, propoxyphene, quinidine, quinine, quinolones, streptokinase, sulfinpyrazone, sulfamides, tamoxifen, thyroid hormones, trimethoprim and sulfamethoxazole and urokinase. Use of streptokinase with warfarin may be hazardous. Aminoglycosides, mineral oil and vitamin E interfere with vitamin K and may cause increased risk of bleeding if taken with warfarin. Cephalosporins, diflusinal, NSAIDS, penicillins and salicylates may have varoius effects that make bleeding more likely when used together with warfarin.
The following drugs may reduce the levels and effects of warfarin: alcohol, aminoglutethimide, barbiturates, carbamazepine, chlolestyramine, oral contraceptives, dicloxacillin, estrogens, etretinate, glutethimide, griseofulvin, nafcillin, rifampin, spironolactone, sucralfate, thiazide diuretics, trazadone, vitamin C (at high doses) vitamin K.
SIDE EFFECTS
The chief complaint is hemorrage, which can occur at virtually any site in the body.
Infrequent side effects may include allergic reactions, jaundice and liver disorders, gastrointestinal disturbances (for example abdominal pain, nausea, vomiting. diarrhea) hair loss and tingling sensations.

This stuff doesn't get along with anything including food. It takes constant monitoring which costs money time and getting holes poked in you. If you are in a car wreck kiss it goodby it benefits phebitists and whoever gets paid to adjust the dose and the pharmacultical company. If there is a clot, if you have a rare clotting disease it is called for. This is extreme and should only be used under dire circumstances. As a preventative maintanence drug it is like killing flies with a sledge hammer. The same thing can be done with over the counter suppliments that are extremely good for you while this remains poison. It is possible to increase blood flow and lower clotting ability with all kinds of things that won't cause penile gangrene or hair loss. This is without doubt one of the most dangerous medications ever in the history of medicine and I was not informed of 90% of the hazard. Was anybody? This is for dire straights and when you get past them it needs to be done. To use this for maitainance is crazy and especially while that maintanance can be done with something that is of benifit. Like Ginkgo Biloba, Cayenne Pepper, Selenium, things that are actually good for your heart and don't cause the risk of you bleeding out through your spleen if you get bumped in the grocery store.

Thatch

[surfgirl]

I "mishear" people  ........It is unbelievable what I think people say at times............I blame it on  a Jimmy Hendrix concert I went to in the 60's.

[often]

My ears don't ring....however, they get this weirdness at times.  When I move my head I get this swishing sound reminescent of a cross between highway noise in the distance and the sound of the surf.  The times that I get it....?  When I am being oblivious to my diet.  Get things back under control and the ears are fine.  Interesting?  I never thought about blood pressure issues, but that is probably it since, of course, my bp is most likely off when I am not eating right.  Thanks for thoughts to ponder.

(of course, I could be in beginning stages of losing my hearing, also, since I am always asking "huh"?)

[surfgirl]

It could mean his blood pressure is high too.  It could mean anything.  My Granny used to say it meant someone is talking about you.  When you say adjust your warfarin, I assume you mean having your PT checked and remain therapeutic without this life saving drug?  I have known too many people who are now 6 feet under because they had a dislike for rat poison, which BTW, is why the rats die......they bleed to death, but of course, they don't get monthly protimes............any animal, even a bengal tiger, even an elephant, would die from the rat poison if taken unsupervised.  Medication, when used properly, is for the benefit of mankind.

[Thatch]

Add ginkgo biloba, adjust your warfarin (all the way off if you can) and check out  vinpocetine which is made from vinca (perriwinkle) to try and get the circulation up in your ears. This is often used to treat tinnitus, which could be age related.
A roaring in the ears might mean your blood pressure is low. Do you have a way to check that?

Thatch