Aa
Chance of being revived
If you have had your AV and SA Nodes ablated and you are now 100% Pacemaker dependent. In the event of pacemaker failure, is there a chance of being revived
p.s., talk to your doctor about this too as there may be other types of backups that can be offered to the pacer.
The SA node causes the atria to contract. As they contract the signal reaches the AV node which then fires the ventricles. The AV node doesn't generate a separate signal.
If the atria and ventricles contract at the same time the heart would be very inefficient. This controlling mechanism keeps their contractions in rhythm.
An ICD is needed when the ventricles have rhythm disturbances that occur in the ventricles that is leading to vtach which can turn into vfib. I don't think an ICD would be indicated for SA or AV node ablation w/o known ventricular disturbances though I could be wrong.
vfib = lights out before you hit the floor. Unless someone starts CPR the person will die. The ventricles are in complete spasm and not contracting at all.
afib = a less efficient heart. The atria are in complete spasm. However the ventricles can still pump enough blood to sustain life. The atria have much less muscle mass than ventricles.
When in AFIB the ventricular contractions (or QRS complexes as they are called) become erratic. This is because the atria is generating signals via the mechanism that is causing the fibrillation. This signal can hit the AV node causing a QRS complex, in AFIB up to 300+ / minute. In a normal AV node some of these will be filtered out (50% should be blocked via a block mechanism). This is why folks will experience tach up to 150+ while in afib and this will be erratic as it jumps around.
I'm really oversimplifying this. I hope I did not cause more confusion than I clear up. If it raises more questions there is a lot of info to research on the 'net, use some of the terms above.
If the atria and ventricles contract at the same time the heart would be very inefficient. This controlling mechanism keeps their contractions in rhythm.
An ICD is needed when the ventricles have rhythm disturbances that occur in the ventricles that is leading to vtach which can turn into vfib. I don't think an ICD would be indicated for SA or AV node ablation w/o known ventricular disturbances though I could be wrong.
vfib = lights out before you hit the floor. Unless someone starts CPR the person will die. The ventricles are in complete spasm and not contracting at all.
afib = a less efficient heart. The atria are in complete spasm. However the ventricles can still pump enough blood to sustain life. The atria have much less muscle mass than ventricles.
When in AFIB the ventricular contractions (or QRS complexes as they are called) become erratic. This is because the atria is generating signals via the mechanism that is causing the fibrillation. This signal can hit the AV node causing a QRS complex, in AFIB up to 300+ / minute. In a normal AV node some of these will be filtered out (50% should be blocked via a block mechanism). This is why folks will experience tach up to 150+ while in afib and this will be erratic as it jumps around.
I'm really oversimplifying this. I hope I did not cause more confusion than I clear up. If it raises more questions there is a lot of info to research on the 'net, use some of the terms above.
bah - forgot to add that I have a pm/icd and 1 lead in one side and another lead in the other side, so I think that's why I'm confused
when both the sa and av nodes have been ablated, wouldn't it be cause for both pm & icd? I thought that one was the heart's natural pacemaker for the top part of the heart and the other was for the lower part? which is where my thought was leading to with both pm & icd if both had been ablated and 100% pacemaker dependent
"Ventricles alone can sustain life, as proven by folks that are in a-fib" is that the same as in Vfib?
all of this heart stuff is so confusing :P
"Ventricles alone can sustain life, as proven by folks that are in a-fib" is that the same as in Vfib?
all of this heart stuff is so confusing :P
COMMUNITY LEADER
Itdood, I found you explanation both helpful and has restored my faith in the original design - of the biological heart that god gave us.
The news, sorry for the side track, is the connection you made to AFib (my problem). I never thought of AFib as the atrial chambers not working, or at least not both. But, given the atrial chambers are there for a reason, it seems that when they become dysfunctional ( fibrillate) it is in effect only the ventricles keeping one going, but at a lower efficiency ... i.e., why we tire easily, become shot of breath and muscles feel like they need more oxygen when just walking up a moderate hill.
Back to Zetta50, I hope you are reading the above. I was worried when I read you post last night, but I had no answers. I am relieved that you got such great inputs that should help put your mind at rest. Good luck.
The news, sorry for the side track, is the connection you made to AFib (my problem). I never thought of AFib as the atrial chambers not working, or at least not both. But, given the atrial chambers are there for a reason, it seems that when they become dysfunctional ( fibrillate) it is in effect only the ventricles keeping one going, but at a lower efficiency ... i.e., why we tire easily, become shot of breath and muscles feel like they need more oxygen when just walking up a moderate hill.
Back to Zetta50, I hope you are reading the above. I was worried when I read you post last night, but I had no answers. I am relieved that you got such great inputs that should help put your mind at rest. Good luck.
I think chances are good. If the pacer fails and there is no signal to beat, the ventricles should in theory fire something called "escape beats". These escape beats are fired by backup pacer cells in the ventricles. Nature put them there because the ventricles are very important. This is the hearts backup pacer and should work the same for a pacemaker. Ventricles alone can sustain life, as proven by folks that are in a-fib.
The backup pacers can trigger for a few reason. Timing is one, if they don't receive a signal to beat for over 3 seconds or so, O2 saturation is another one.
This should give you enough time to get to an ER where they could use an external pacer until they fix the defective one.
These backup pacers are what cause some folks with otherwise normal hearts to experience something called premature ventricular contractions (PVCs). I'm getting a bit off topic but felt this would help the community understand our hearts a little better.
The backup pacers can trigger for a few reason. Timing is one, if they don't receive a signal to beat for over 3 seconds or so, O2 saturation is another one.
This should give you enough time to get to an ER where they could use an external pacer until they fix the defective one.
These backup pacers are what cause some folks with otherwise normal hearts to experience something called premature ventricular contractions (PVCs). I'm getting a bit off topic but felt this would help the community understand our hearts a little better.
I am 100% paced and had an AVJ ablation 13 months ago. I really am not worried about the failure as I have my pacer interrogated every 3-4 months. My pacer is getting old and the battery life is waning so that is the reason for the frequent interrogations. I do not have a ICD/defibillator, just the standard pacer.
Have you recently had the AV and SA nodes ablated or are you scheduled to have it done?
ksig
Have you recently had the AV and SA nodes ablated or are you scheduled to have it done?
ksig
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