artaud...and anyone ?

[mommyto4]

hi there, i was just reading your reply to the young girl and you seem very knowledgeable about pvc's and the heart
my ep can't answer this yet, as i need another echo(of course snow storm today and had to cancel my appt,lol)
anyway i had mild tricuspid regur, when ep was doing my ablation he actually say lots of regur, more like moderate and i keep asking did the pvc's cause the valve not to close and thus the regur or other way around???opinions?
can't wait to see echo if it resolved
ok thanks,
maria

[Artaud]

Hi,

I wish I had the answer. I would not suspect that PVCs can cause damage to the heart valves, but when researching your post I came across something that another forum member had posted in the past. It was about Cannon A Waves, apparently a PVC that occurs when the Tricuspid Valve is closed, apparently producing quite a jolt for the person experiencing it, and causing a very strong pulse or pressure in the neck as well. I remember researching it at the time as well. Even the article I saw today did not mention the Cannon A Wave as being able to damage the Tricuspid Valve, and the event sounds like it is more stressful on the system than a regular PVC.

Perhaps Celeste77 can comment when she is on the forum again.

Deep regards to you and may you have a Happy Holiday Season.

[stressedaboutpalps]

Well you certainly know your stuff Artaud.  I have PVC's and suffer temendously mentally with them.  I know people say that they are normal but when you get them every day I really can't see that is normal.  I stress and stress about these things.  I feel them really hard in the left hand side of my neck as well.  I guess I don't get a lot of them as I read others do on this forum but I get between 3 - 20 a day and they hit so hard that I can't imagine other people have these and don't feel them.  My heart actually feels like it totally stops and gurgles and then does a huge bang.  

How do you know so much about these things?

[mommyto4]

i guess i was hoping that the pvc's were soo consistant , that the valve really didn't have a chance to close properly, well i guess i will find out next tues at the echo?
thanks again
hey did you have an ablation?

[Artaud]

Hi,

1. Personal Experience.
2. Endless visits to the Doctor. My wife used to work for my Family Doctor, she said that they had to split my records a long time ago due to its size ;-) She now works for my Cardiologist. When she went to work for the Cardiologist, I was seeing another Cardiologist at the time. Being that the one she now works for is closer, having someone in office can be a help for access. Don't imagine that I am buddies with the Doctor though, after calling the office (no special access there, I left a message with the answering service) one Sunday to express my concern about some couplets that I awoke with, he phoned me back and admonished me with the usual "I have patients with serious problems to take care of". Sheesh. Nice guy. Actually I think he is a very competent Doctor, just a little short on the temper. PS, he did phone my wife back in about 5 minutes with another plan for addressing my problems, it must have made him feel guilty.
3. The Internet and originally the Library (remember those, they have books with paper and text, how I miss them, they are still there, but the internet is easier to access). The Internet has excellent sources, some require free registration.
4. Pharmacy Technician School, no, not a Pharmacist, but the grunts that fill the prescriptions, I completed 5 months of a 6 month course. Drugs are fascinating, we are so lucky to be living in a time that has so many. You can over do it though. Dying from oral medication to clear-up toe nail fungus isn't worth it. I'd rather have a loving wife with ugly toe nails any day. (just as an example, other medications also may be unwarranted).
6. Opticianry School, 21 months, with certificate. Interesting learning about the eyes and glasses.

Why so many visits to the Doctors? PVCs since I was about 15 years old for one. 19 years of seizures that they never knew were seizures. They thought it was psychological. Nice! 19 years of them before they worsened, and then after a few tests to confirm them, I am prescribed Dilantin and all those funny (peculiar) problems for all those years go away in two days. That was so screwed up. Loss of vision in one eye, while arguing with my wife. The vision came back in about 5 minutes but I haven't had a good argument since ;-) and last, but not least, several episodes a year where my eyes cross for a few minutes, with one episode producing double vision, dizziness, and almost caused me to faint. They believe that these are caused by Basilar Migraines.

I can empathize will all of those that have stress related symptoms. They can be a bugger. The Basilar Migraine and Loss of Vision in one eye are attributed to vascular constriction, likely caused by stress. (refer to the arguing with my wife part). Same with the PVCs. The Seizures are likely the only thing not caused by stress, but they can be made worse by it.

My wife and I have taken to driving around an area locally where the Amish live. Wow, I don’t know about their personal problems, but not reading the newspaper or watching the evening news with endless stories of tragedies must be great. Even if I don’t watch it at home, everyone talks about it at work. And the increasingly perverse television shows we subject ourselves to, and the endless pursuit of material goods, modern mankind has gone awry, and is subjecting themselves to tensions that are almost inconceivable. Its no wonder that many of us have PVCs and arrhythmias and the host of other afflictions thought to be benign but are so frightening.

Best of health to you and yours. I hope I was not too long winded.

[dolfnlvr]

"refer to the arguing with my wife part"   I laughed out loud at that one.  Not an "lol" but a real, honest to goodness vocalized laugh.  

I enjoyed that post.  It's always nice to hear from others who are perfectly "fine" but suffer a number of unexplained maladies.  I have that problem...if you'll remember I "went blind" excpet for peripheral vision in the grocery store...optical migraine.  Thought it was a stroke.  Also suffer vasovagal episodes off and on and then the dumb PVC's started up.  I love your humor.  

Bet you don't yell quite as loudly when you and your wife argue now do you?  Bet when all was said and done, and you were deemed healthy, she said "serves you right."  :-)

Have a great day!!  And thanks for the chuckle.

[iamfaithful]

Wow, your post was not long at all but right on time.  I think we stress ourselves out so much by just what you said, "material goods, perverse television shows" etc.  I just nodded to myself when I read your post.  I have been suffering with PVC's since May of this year and have been mentally battling ever since.  I have received really good adivce from lots of people on this board and am so grateful.  I was refusing to believe the PVC's were benign even though I had all of the test.  I am on beta blockers for them because they were bothering me so badly and my doctor could sense that I was a worry wart anyway.
I have been feeling pretty okay for the last couple of weeks, but they are still there, just not as bad.  I really wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy; but since I was "chosen" to go thru this I try my best to trust in God and keep living my life.  But one thing that I still don't understand is how there are so many different opinions on PVC's.  I mean I know they are supposed to be benign, but if they are why do doctors prescribe meds for them and keep you on them?  Is it just to ease the stress so you don't fuel them?  My doctor won't take me off my bb just yet- and I am on a low dose 25 mg-since I still experience them and more frequently during my cycle he wants to keep me on.  I really don't like taking meds, it makes me more anxious!  Ugh, sometimes I feel like I am losing it :-)
I had two pieces of chocolate today (it was Godiva!!!) and I felt SOOOOOO guilty and afraid of what it would do to me :-)   I haven't had a caffeinated drink or choc. since May.  Oh well folks, I am definately certifiably a nut :-)  Hope everyone has a good evening!!!!

[Momto3]

Great post!

I was just commenting the other day about how I hope libraries never disappear altogether.  I love libraries and I wish everyone knew about card catalogues...lol

[PikaPika88]

Partially read the posts above.  The cardio told me that they won't change the tricuspid valve.  If they give a new one to me and I can't tell the different.  Normally, they DO NOT concern the tricuspid valve at all.  Are all your cardios said the same thing?

My echo in 2005 said trivial regur in tricuspid and 2007 said moderate regur...  It wear off so fast?  2 cardios reassured me that I didn't have any PAC nor PVC and I have a normal heart as every one else.

[Artaud]

Thanks for the compliments from all.

iamfaithful,

All PVCs are not benign, that is why anyone that experiences them for the first time (other than a few here and there) should be examined by their Doctor. Also, people accustomed to having PVCs that suddenly experience a significant worsening of them should be examined.
  
For people like you and me, where our Doctors have done testing and told us that our PVCs are benign, one of the most common reasons to treat them is to reduce the apprehension that the patient has about feeling them. If you have benign PVCs and are not bothered by them, they usually don't require treatment. Incredibly, many people have many many PVCs and are totally unaware of them. Sometimes they are referred to the Cardiologist because their Family Doctor discovered them during a physical, sometimes the PVCs are discovered during a pre-employment physical. If they go to the Cardiologist and have testing done, and the tests show a normal heart, and the patient is not fainting or becoming dizzy from them, they most likely will not treat them. They can't feel them anyway, and they have no other physical symptoms, so treatment would likely be pointless.

Beta Blockers are usually the first line of treatment for benign PVCs, when required. They have an excellent history of safety, and they usually produce stable changes in the heart rate, slowing it down, will little likelihood of causing another arrhythmia like stronger drugs may. Stronger drugs require frequent monitoring to be sure that they are not going to produce arrhythmias of their own. Also, Beta Blockers comparatively cause less side effects elsewhere in the body.

Beta Blockers also reduce blood pressure, which is a good thing if you have borderline or high blood pressure. Ask your Doctor why he/she feels that you need to remain on a Beta Blocker. Never discontinue a drug without your Doctor's consent or awareness. Some drugs require a tapering of the dosage while discontinuing to prevent undesired side effects from the withdrawal.

I assume you are on Atenolol (Tenormin). If so, 25mg is a small dose, hopefully it won't cause any problems. If you quit you may see that you are just as tense or maybe even feel a little more tense, as the adrenaline will cause your heart to beat faster and harder.

Chocolate, my weakness. I avoid eating too much, but can't help that occasional indulgement. They say it helps depression. I know I usually feel better after eating it.

Be well.

[Artaud]

Hi,

The Optical Migraine experience that you had, frightening wasn't it. I thought the same thing (stroke) when I lost vision in one eye. Did you lose central vision in both eyes or just one?

When I lost my vision in my right eye, and it gradually came back, we cancelled the ambulance that I asked my wife to phone for. So I called my Neurologist, and he said to start taking an aspirin everyday and phone his office in the morning to make an appointment. I thought he was nuts, so I phoned my Family Doctor and she told me to start taking an aspirin every day and to phone her office in the morning to make an appointment. Strange.

I had to have Carotid Artery Studies done after that, but thankfully the results were negative.

Anyone interested in reading about really unusual things that happen during a migraine (and other books that detail various aspects of life) can find books by Dr. Oliver Sacks. The book, entitled “Migraine” details such unusual migraines as Lilliputian and Mosaic migraines. I read the book many years ago, a very interesting read, especially for those afflicted with migraine variants.

Wishes of health and peace.

[iamfaithful]

Thanks for responding.  I am actually on toprol (metoprolol).  Is there a big difference in that and Atenolol?  I have noticed that lots of people seem to take the Atenolol?  

The Nurse Practioner actually was the one to see me at my last visit, and she doesn't want to take me off of the meds because I am still not PVC free and she's afraid that they will come back with a vengance one I come off of them.  Yep, I know I have to be weaned off of them and that is why I am so ready to start now.  I don't have another cardio visit until March of next year-ugh.

My doctor actually showed me an ekg of a guy he said he would prescribe Flecanide (sp?) too.  I was questioning him about arrythmias because he said I didn't have them, just the occasional PVC's after some regular heart beats the PVC's would show up. He told me that when you get four or more sustained PVC's they would consider that an arrythmia and I didn't have that.  I guess I just want this to be "black and white" with no gray areas and it's not so; but that's just the kind of person I am.  

That is one thing that I do worry about is the drug making me feel worse or actually causing arrythmias.   I seem to feel the PVC's more when my heart rate is slower, and that's why he took me BACK down to 25 instead of keeping me at 50, which was way too much for me.  But this was in the beginning.  I think my blood pressure was too low because I felt like I was constantly walking in a fog.

So, just so I understand you, the PVC's that are not benign are when you have an abnormal heart, i.e. structurally damaged?  When can benign PVC's turn NOT benign?  

[dolfnlvr]

Hey there.  Benign PVC's won't "turn" into anything harmful.  The thing is that PVC's can (let me emphasize CAN) be a symptom of other heart abnormalities.  PVC's are common after a heart attack for instance.  Also, people suffering from heart failure often feel an increase in PVC's.  Trauma to the heart from an outside force (a blow to the chest during football or baseball for instance) can cause PVC's and other arhythmias.  That is why going to a doctor and having a thorough examination is important.  If you've had the echocardiogram, a stress test, and heart monitoring, then the doctor can determine if the arhythmia is benign or if it is the result of a deeper/more serious condition.  

The beta blockers are adrenaline blockers.  There is not a huge difference in the effect of beta blockers, just the mode in which they work to provide the results.  It's a lot of complicated biochemistry.  The bottom line is that doctors will try you on one, and if it works for you...they won't switch it.  If it doesn't work...they'll try another one.  

Beta blockers help to control your "fight or flight" response.  The autonomic nervous system sends messages to your circulatory system to speed up or slow down, raise or lower blood pressure under the right circumstances.  Some of us have a problem with "mixed signals."  In the case of benign PVC's the pacemaker cells of our heart fire at abnormal times (prematurely) which causes a compensatory..catch up pause that we feel as a "skipped beat."  When the brain squeezes its ideas in there sometimes the "hurry up and speed up" signal from the brain causes those pacemaker cells to fire all that much more...ie--more PVC's.  By calming the adrenaline receptors we calm the pacemaker cells and they don't tend to show as much of their ADHD personalities...ie--less PVC's.

I am lucky.  A VERY low dose of Metoprolol tends to take care of my worst problems.  When things get bad, I up the dose a bit and that helps.  When things even out, I tend to cut back and let my system take care of things on its own.  For some other people a much higher dose is required.  

I wouldn't suspect that the Beta Blockers will CAUSE an arhythmia.  Their biggest side effect is what I call "zombie-ism."  They make you SOOOOOO tired.  SInce they block the adrenaline, you just feel pooped all day long.  

I hope this puts your mind at ease.  

Take care,

[iamfaithful]

hey there, we haven't talked in a while :-)  I have always liked how detailed you are-I really appreciate that.  Why can't the doctors talk to you like that, instead of just telling you that the medicine will "help" you....that is so GENERAL!!!!  

Okay, you say a VERY LOW dose, it must be like 12.5 or 6.??? :-)  They don't make it in that dose do they?  I am assuming you just cut it in half or 1/4 (I think you said that already sorry).  That's what I wish I could do-be at 12.5 and I think mentally I would feel so much better.  It's something with me and taking the meds that makes me anxious.  And let me tell you that when I have to get my perscription refilled......oh boy, I start thinking of all kind of horrors, and when I take that first "new" pill I am pretty much terrified.  It's quite crazy, but I'm trying to work thru it-lol.

When my doctor prescribed Xanax for me after my first bout of tachycardia-panic attack, he said that it worked basically the same as a beta blocker-BASICALLY, which I was already on.  I still don't understand the DIFFERENCE in atenolol, metroprolol and the rest of the beta blockers.  I know some are non-cardioselective which I assume you take if you suffer from migraines or something; but I'm wondering if you don't have a history of high blood pressure, and you are just suffering from PAC's and PVC's how do they know which beta blocker to put you on?  I have a girlfriend whose husband has a history of high blood pressure and he developed PVC's from stress so his doctor took him off his normal meds and put him on metroprolol.  Okay, I get that, but I don't have a history of high blood pressure, even though that's what they had me down for when I had my initial appointment.  I don't know why the nurse documented that; it's like every visit I have to remind them I HAVE NORMAL BP PEOPLE!!!  Gosh I am rambling, but I guess I am asking is Atenolol better for controlling them?

I am going to print this out so I can read this when I get into one of my fearful modes, it helps having this stuff to read over again.

Thanks again for the post!!!