Aa
HEP B Vaccine (Pruritis Reaction) and alternative cures?
I saw a naturopath last night who also does accupuncture. She says that vaccines in general including the Hep B one have many poisions in them that can take a long time (Many months) to purge from the system (cells). They also cause some people a variety of allergic long lasting reactions. She has provided Three toxin clearing products from the Unda Group, which I will take for four weeks. This is supposed to clear my system out. Then I will start a different course of natural products to try and reset and calm my immune system down. I am skeptical at this point, as I have never dealt with alternative therapy, but am willing to try anything to stop the allergic reaction of generalized pruritis. I know some people swear that Naturopaths have cured many terrible ills and reduced suffering. Hopefully they can assist in my case
I am also starting massage and accupuncture to reduce the stress this is causing and hopefully reduce the intensity of the itching with stress relief.
I was told this could take months and months more to get under control.
At least all my myriad of other detailed blood/diagnostic tests, liver biopsy test results to look for all causes of systematic itching have come back ok/negative. I am convinced the double Hep B shot did this to me and I will never have another one.
I am also starting massage and accupuncture to reduce the stress this is causing and hopefully reduce the intensity of the itching with stress relief.
I was told this could take months and months more to get under control.
At least all my myriad of other detailed blood/diagnostic tests, liver biopsy test results to look for all causes of systematic itching have come back ok/negative. I am convinced the double Hep B shot did this to me and I will never have another one.
Answer: She knew several of the ingredients including Thimersol(Mercury) and this did impress me a bit.
The compounds you listed are not toxic in the doses you were given and you reaction is more than likely from the antigens in the vaccine. Don't let the ability to read impress you rather require the NP to describe the toxicity of the compounds she mentioned and how that was determined.
>The NP admits medication and time should cure this. The ? is will >the conventional and traditional medications help reduce and >speed this process up, I dont know, but am willing to try.
I can sympathize with your plight but I doubt that anything other than time will ameliorate your symptoms.
>Answer: I will f/u and ask exactly how these medications work but >there are herbs that can cleanse and remove/filter garbage out of >ones organs, namely the liver.
This is simply not true! There are no herbs which can change the phsyical chemical properties of compounds and thus hasten elimination. Our organs are not like a dryer lint filter or waste basket that needs emptying periodically. Metabolism and excretion of xenobiotics are a dynamic process which is dependent on the enzyme system responsible for the detoxification process as well as the physical and chemical properties of the "toxin" in question. For discussion I would like you to name the herbs you think will remove/filter garbage and what is the name of the garbage that is being filtered. Not an attack but rather points for discussion on this prevelant myth.
> The immune system is very sensitive, prednisone for instance can >supress strong immune reactions, I am sure there are homeopath >treatments that purport to do the same. Bottom line I will spend >minimum dollars but give a few of these treatments a try. I have >nothing to lose at this point. I will enquire further regarding >resetting the immune system. Again i think time is the most >important thing.
Purporting to do something and proof of doing something are two very different issues. Drinking water (homeopathic treatment ) is a valuable tool to combat dehydration but that is as far as it goes. Homeopathy has failed every test it has been involved in over the last 150 years.
Again I certainly sympathize with your plight but please don't allow desperation drive you into taking nostrums which have no proof of efficacy just because feel you need to do something even if it isn't likely to help or hurt. The ailments which are not easily treated or explained often drives patients into trying many unconventional treatments but don't believe that the "natural" practitioner has the answers for these unanswerable questions.
Also don't take my comments as an attack on you but rather view them as talking points on the topics covered.
regards and good luck,
BobK
Hi Bob, thanks for the response/input. I am willing to try anything at this point including NP. I have friends who have had major issues who have received benefits from np herbs etc. Do I believe that they cure all ills, no way, but perhaps they will help my case a bit. In the end I agree allot of time is what will be required for my issues to resolve themselves.
I will try to answer some of your questions:
1) She says that the vaccines in general including the Hep B one have many >poisions in them that can take a long time (Many months) to purge >from the system (cells).
Answer: She knew several of the ingredients including Thimersol(Mercury) and this did impress me a bit. I thought this had been taken out of the canadian vaccine, she insisted it had not and according to the product monograph I checked at the pharmacy she is correct. Aluminum Hydroxide and phenoxeythonal are the other ingredients.
As for the length of time for this to fade, medical professionals are also telling me many many months, this includes the vaccine maker, Glaxo Smith Kline. The NP says time and various medicines will help
2)They also cause some people a variety of allergic long lasting >reactions
Answer: Well, yes the reactions are quote rare, however look at the product monograph for Hep B, there are enough of them listed and vaccine reactions are always undereported and studies show reactions are much higher than what the vaccine maker reports. Inadequate long term studies and follow-up to allergic reactions have been done on this vaccine, the vaccine maker was very unhelpful when I called but did admit that more long term studies should be done. The NP admits medication and time should cure this. The ? is will the conventional and traditional medications help reduce and speed this process up, I dont know, but am willing to try.
3)>She has provided Three toxin clearing products from the Unda >Group, which I will take for four weeks. This is supposed to >clear my system out. Then I will start a different course of >natural products to try and reset and calm my immune system down. >I am skeptical at this point, as I have never dealt with >alternative therapy, but am willing to try anything to stop the >allergic reaction of generalized pruritis. I know some people >swear that Naturopaths have cured many terrible ills and reduced >suffering. Hopefully they can assist in my case
Answer: I will f/u and ask exactly how these medications work but there are herbs that can cleanse and remove/filter garbage out of ones organs, namely the liver. The immune system is very sensitive, prednisone for instance can supress strong immune reactions, I am sure there are homeopath treatments that purport to do the same. Bottom line I will spend minimum dollars but give a few of these treatments a try. I have nothing to lose at this point. I will enquire further regarding resetting the immune system. Again i think time is the most important thing.
4)have to keep your wallet open for quite some time? At the end, when you are low on cash, how are you going to tell if the "tincture of time" was not the most effective and cost effective treatment and that the supplements did anything at all. Nearly all malaise respond quite favorabley to the tincture of time as far as healing goes.
5) Save your money and listen to your docs. I realize that there are a number of physical complaints that do not have an explaination or treatment and modern medicine has little to offer except in the way of treatment of symptoms. Do not let this drive you into the hands of these practioners who claim to be able to treat these untreatable ailments....they depend heavely on the "tincture of time" to aid them.
Answer The NP was very upfront and guaranteed nothing and I told her I am not going to spend a fortune on this therapy, however I am willing to explore this for a short timeframe and minimal cost. The consult was covered by work and all the meds for a month came to $80.00(CAD). If they don't work I wont go back. This is a shot in the dark, I realize that but conventiomal medicine has not really helped me, and it is the shot that caused me this nightmare in the first place.
I have lived with this for two months and from the sounds of it have many many more months to go. I hope that both types of medicine reduce the itching and speed along the healing process.
Thanks again, appreciate any other feedback you may have. Do you have any info on my particular reaction of Pruritis?
I will try to answer some of your questions:
1) She says that the vaccines in general including the Hep B one have many >poisions in them that can take a long time (Many months) to purge >from the system (cells).
Answer: She knew several of the ingredients including Thimersol(Mercury) and this did impress me a bit. I thought this had been taken out of the canadian vaccine, she insisted it had not and according to the product monograph I checked at the pharmacy she is correct. Aluminum Hydroxide and phenoxeythonal are the other ingredients.
As for the length of time for this to fade, medical professionals are also telling me many many months, this includes the vaccine maker, Glaxo Smith Kline. The NP says time and various medicines will help
2)They also cause some people a variety of allergic long lasting >reactions
Answer: Well, yes the reactions are quote rare, however look at the product monograph for Hep B, there are enough of them listed and vaccine reactions are always undereported and studies show reactions are much higher than what the vaccine maker reports. Inadequate long term studies and follow-up to allergic reactions have been done on this vaccine, the vaccine maker was very unhelpful when I called but did admit that more long term studies should be done. The NP admits medication and time should cure this. The ? is will the conventional and traditional medications help reduce and speed this process up, I dont know, but am willing to try.
3)>She has provided Three toxin clearing products from the Unda >Group, which I will take for four weeks. This is supposed to >clear my system out. Then I will start a different course of >natural products to try and reset and calm my immune system down. >I am skeptical at this point, as I have never dealt with >alternative therapy, but am willing to try anything to stop the >allergic reaction of generalized pruritis. I know some people >swear that Naturopaths have cured many terrible ills and reduced >suffering. Hopefully they can assist in my case
Answer: I will f/u and ask exactly how these medications work but there are herbs that can cleanse and remove/filter garbage out of ones organs, namely the liver. The immune system is very sensitive, prednisone for instance can supress strong immune reactions, I am sure there are homeopath treatments that purport to do the same. Bottom line I will spend minimum dollars but give a few of these treatments a try. I have nothing to lose at this point. I will enquire further regarding resetting the immune system. Again i think time is the most important thing.
4)have to keep your wallet open for quite some time? At the end, when you are low on cash, how are you going to tell if the "tincture of time" was not the most effective and cost effective treatment and that the supplements did anything at all. Nearly all malaise respond quite favorabley to the tincture of time as far as healing goes.
5) Save your money and listen to your docs. I realize that there are a number of physical complaints that do not have an explaination or treatment and modern medicine has little to offer except in the way of treatment of symptoms. Do not let this drive you into the hands of these practioners who claim to be able to treat these untreatable ailments....they depend heavely on the "tincture of time" to aid them.
Answer The NP was very upfront and guaranteed nothing and I told her I am not going to spend a fortune on this therapy, however I am willing to explore this for a short timeframe and minimal cost. The consult was covered by work and all the meds for a month came to $80.00(CAD). If they don't work I wont go back. This is a shot in the dark, I realize that but conventiomal medicine has not really helped me, and it is the shot that caused me this nightmare in the first place.
I have lived with this for two months and from the sounds of it have many many more months to go. I hope that both types of medicine reduce the itching and speed along the healing process.
Thanks again, appreciate any other feedback you may have. Do you have any info on my particular reaction of Pruritis?
>She says that vaccines in general including the Hep B one have many >poisions in them that can take a long time (Many months) to purge >from the system (cells).
This is a classic anti-vaccination argument. Aks your NP what are the name of these toxins...especially the ones in the HpeB vaccination....I doubt s/he knows the answer.
>They also cause some people a variety of allergic long lasting >reactions.
While in rare, I repeat, rare instances vaccines can cause adverse reactions. These are neither widespread or common. Ask the NP to give you some documentation about this alleged fact.
>She has provided Three toxin clearing products from the Unda >Group, which I will take for four weeks. This is supposed to >clear my system out. Then I will start a different course of >natural products to try and reset and calm my immune system down. >I am skeptical at this point, as I have never dealt with >alternative therapy, but am willing to try anything to stop the >allergic reaction of generalized pruritis. I know some people >swear that Naturopaths have cured many terrible ills and reduced >suffering. Hopefully they can assist in my case
The concept that taking some herb or supplement will change the physical and chemical properties of a "toxin" and allow it to be cleared from the system is ridiculous. There is absolutely no truth in this! Again ask for some documentation and also ask that the person supplying this stuff to provide a name for a SINGLE toxin that is eliminated by the use of these products. Also ask what the evidence is for the increased elimination and how it was determined....you'll get NO answers!! AS far as reseting the immune system...how would that work? Ask the NP for info on that prospect. Also if you are having a immune response how do you know that what they are going to try and modify won't make the situation worse.? You are wise to be skeptical but ask the questions before shelling out all your money.
>I was told this could take months and months more to get under >control
Do you think there could be a more effective way to get you used to the idea that you are going to have to keep your wallet open for quite some time? At the end, when you are low on cash, how are you going to tell if the "tincture of time" was not the most effective and cost effective treatment and that the supplements did anything at all. Nearly all malaise respond quite favorabley to the tincture of time as far as healing goes.
Save your money and listen to your docs. I realize that there are a number of physical complaints that do not have an explaination or treatment and modern medicine has little to offer except in the way of treatment of symptoms. Do not let this drive you into the hands of these practioners who claim to be able to treat these untreatable ailments....they depend heavely on the "tincture of time" to aid them.
I would be very interested in hearing the answers to the above questions....please pos tthem if you are given any!!
regards,
BobK
This is a classic anti-vaccination argument. Aks your NP what are the name of these toxins...especially the ones in the HpeB vaccination....I doubt s/he knows the answer.
>They also cause some people a variety of allergic long lasting >reactions.
While in rare, I repeat, rare instances vaccines can cause adverse reactions. These are neither widespread or common. Ask the NP to give you some documentation about this alleged fact.
>She has provided Three toxin clearing products from the Unda >Group, which I will take for four weeks. This is supposed to >clear my system out. Then I will start a different course of >natural products to try and reset and calm my immune system down. >I am skeptical at this point, as I have never dealt with >alternative therapy, but am willing to try anything to stop the >allergic reaction of generalized pruritis. I know some people >swear that Naturopaths have cured many terrible ills and reduced >suffering. Hopefully they can assist in my case
The concept that taking some herb or supplement will change the physical and chemical properties of a "toxin" and allow it to be cleared from the system is ridiculous. There is absolutely no truth in this! Again ask for some documentation and also ask that the person supplying this stuff to provide a name for a SINGLE toxin that is eliminated by the use of these products. Also ask what the evidence is for the increased elimination and how it was determined....you'll get NO answers!! AS far as reseting the immune system...how would that work? Ask the NP for info on that prospect. Also if you are having a immune response how do you know that what they are going to try and modify won't make the situation worse.? You are wise to be skeptical but ask the questions before shelling out all your money.
>I was told this could take months and months more to get under >control
Do you think there could be a more effective way to get you used to the idea that you are going to have to keep your wallet open for quite some time? At the end, when you are low on cash, how are you going to tell if the "tincture of time" was not the most effective and cost effective treatment and that the supplements did anything at all. Nearly all malaise respond quite favorabley to the tincture of time as far as healing goes.
Save your money and listen to your docs. I realize that there are a number of physical complaints that do not have an explaination or treatment and modern medicine has little to offer except in the way of treatment of symptoms. Do not let this drive you into the hands of these practioners who claim to be able to treat these untreatable ailments....they depend heavely on the "tincture of time" to aid them.
I would be very interested in hearing the answers to the above questions....please pos tthem if you are given any!!
regards,
BobK
Sorry, I don't know about that reaction in particular. As you are already aware, it is apparently extremely rare. You are obviously doing every single thing you can.
Did you say you had already tried Sarna lotion? We use that on some pts. with pruritis with some success. You can get it at any drugstore--may have to ask the pharmacist for it.
This is probably impractical, but we also frequently use Nubain (Nalbuphine) 3-5mg iv every 6-8 hrs prn for patients experiencing intractable itching after receiving epidurals. Works VERY well, but I don't believe there is an oral form. It can also be given SQ, so that may work for you.
I briefly looked for a reference regarding this off label use of Nubain but was unable to find one. I will try to ask Anesthesia at work, but I am going to be gone for the next week and won't be able to get back online til then.
Worth a shot; if you want to bring it up to your doc, I am sure he/she can get an Anesthesiology opinion that backs up at least a trial on it sub Q.
Did you say you had already tried Sarna lotion? We use that on some pts. with pruritis with some success. You can get it at any drugstore--may have to ask the pharmacist for it.
This is probably impractical, but we also frequently use Nubain (Nalbuphine) 3-5mg iv every 6-8 hrs prn for patients experiencing intractable itching after receiving epidurals. Works VERY well, but I don't believe there is an oral form. It can also be given SQ, so that may work for you.
I briefly looked for a reference regarding this off label use of Nubain but was unable to find one. I will try to ask Anesthesia at work, but I am going to be gone for the next week and won't be able to get back online til then.
Worth a shot; if you want to bring it up to your doc, I am sure he/she can get an Anesthesiology opinion that backs up at least a trial on it sub Q.
HepB vaccine is one of the best studied vaccines available today. It is given routinely even to newborns. Virtually every child born in the US has received the series.
Of course, anyone can have a bad reaction to ANYTHING. Even Tylenol can kill. It was just bad luck that you got such a rare reaction to it. I do believe it is contraindicated for you to receive anymore though, due to the severity of your allergic reaction.
I am neutral towards naturopaths. The treatments probably won't hurt anything, and in time, with or without treatment, your reaction will fade anyway. If it helps you bear the itching, go for it. But don't think that just because something is a herb that it is safe or without any possible sequelae. Rarely, people have died after exposure to even something as benign as Echinachea. You know you already have a highly sensitized immune system. Bottom line is to be careful of ANYTHING you put in your body for the next 6 months. Most if not all herbal cures and cleanses have not been well studied in a controlled scientific environment.
I am also a chronic non responder to hepB vaccines--I get a booster about every 2 years--a regular one, not a double. As a health care worker, I MUST maintain some immunity.
Of course, anyone can have a bad reaction to ANYTHING. Even Tylenol can kill. It was just bad luck that you got such a rare reaction to it. I do believe it is contraindicated for you to receive anymore though, due to the severity of your allergic reaction.
I am neutral towards naturopaths. The treatments probably won't hurt anything, and in time, with or without treatment, your reaction will fade anyway. If it helps you bear the itching, go for it. But don't think that just because something is a herb that it is safe or without any possible sequelae. Rarely, people have died after exposure to even something as benign as Echinachea. You know you already have a highly sensitized immune system. Bottom line is to be careful of ANYTHING you put in your body for the next 6 months. Most if not all herbal cures and cleanses have not been well studied in a controlled scientific environment.
I am also a chronic non responder to hepB vaccines--I get a booster about every 2 years--a regular one, not a double. As a health care worker, I MUST maintain some immunity.
Hi Christie,
Thank you for the response and the input. You know something about this vaccine, which is good. I agree with my doctors that I had a very strong overimmune response, which several specialists indicate will cool down and the itching should fade over time, this can take many many months and possibly more, but it should not be permanent, which is thankfully good news. If I can speed the process up safely I will try to do so whether through conventional and or Homeopathic medicines. Right now Antihistamines and Prednisone have helped a bit in the last 11 days, massage and accupuncture help relieve stress and I have been assured that the 3 naturopath medications are safe and will flush the system. I will however carefully monitor myself for any additional symptoms.
If you as a nurse and have any info the generalized Pruritis reaction to this vaccine I would very much appreciate more detail.
thanks again
Thank you for the response and the input. You know something about this vaccine, which is good. I agree with my doctors that I had a very strong overimmune response, which several specialists indicate will cool down and the itching should fade over time, this can take many many months and possibly more, but it should not be permanent, which is thankfully good news. If I can speed the process up safely I will try to do so whether through conventional and or Homeopathic medicines. Right now Antihistamines and Prednisone have helped a bit in the last 11 days, massage and accupuncture help relieve stress and I have been assured that the 3 naturopath medications are safe and will flush the system. I will however carefully monitor myself for any additional symptoms.
If you as a nurse and have any info the generalized Pruritis reaction to this vaccine I would very much appreciate more detail.
thanks again
Well sort of feels that way I guess. People can develop allergic allergies at any point in time. I am being told that with medical and naturopathic treatment and more importantly lots of time this reaction will settle down, thus the Pruritis should fade over the coming months. I have already lived with this symptom for 2 months and at times it has not been easy.
Thanks again Christie,
Yes I know it is very rare to have Pruritis from this shot, but nothing else can be causing it because I have had a ton of blood and diagnostic tests, even a liver biopsy and kidney work-up and it started less than 24 hrs after the shot, so it makes sense.
Well if you are able to obtain further info in the coming weeks I would appreciate it. Maybe an immunologist or heptologist would have some ideas. God knows the vaccine maker has been very unhelpful except to say that it will fade with time.
In any event have a safe and happy holiday and thanks very much for the input, hopefully I will here back from you once you return from holidays.
Regards
Yes I know it is very rare to have Pruritis from this shot, but nothing else can be causing it because I have had a ton of blood and diagnostic tests, even a liver biopsy and kidney work-up and it started less than 24 hrs after the shot, so it makes sense.
Well if you are able to obtain further info in the coming weeks I would appreciate it. Maybe an immunologist or heptologist would have some ideas. God knows the vaccine maker has been very unhelpful except to say that it will fade with time.
In any event have a safe and happy holiday and thanks very much for the input, hopefully I will here back from you once you return from holidays.
Regards
I didn't mean to lessen what you are going through. Like Christie said even Tylenol can kill but usually doesn't. We just never know til it happens.
I'm almost half way through tx and my company is changing insurace provider. They tell me there should be no glitchs but I'm expecting a plane to fall on my head :) Hang in there.
Bill
I'm almost half way through tx and my company is changing insurace provider. They tell me there should be no glitchs but I'm expecting a plane to fall on my head :) Hang in there.
Bill
Just had last of 3 shots on Friday and no problemo.
I have to wonder if its like the odds of a guy walking out the door in the morning and a piece of airplane falls on his head and kills him. Not likely but if its your time its your time.
I have to wonder if its like the odds of a guy walking out the door in the morning and a piece of airplane falls on his head and kills him. Not likely but if its your time its your time.
Thanks for the response. The vaccine only causes various reactions in some people, my shot was a double booster because my titer immunity levels kept falling to non immune. I have had sooo many blood/diagnotic tests and even a liver biopsy in the last 7 weeks to rule out other causes of Generalized Pruritis inc ultrasounds, Thyroid, Kidney diabetic blood tests, cbc with diff, electrolytes, Immuno and Protein Electrphoresis, Chest x-Ray, liver biopsy confirming a benign fatty liver, and the list goes on. The bottom line is the Pruritis reaction started started 24 hours after the Hep B shot. I was also sick with Malaise, nausea gastro upset for a couple of weeks and it started the same day as the shot. At least the malaise problem has mostly faded.
All I can say is make sure you know the ingredients being pumped into you with these shots and at least then it is an informed decision. My doctor never told me anything that was in these shots, inc the 1st series I had in 98.
All I can say is make sure you know the ingredients being pumped into you with these shots and at least then it is an informed decision. My doctor never told me anything that was in these shots, inc the 1st series I had in 98.
I had my initial hep a & hep b shot 6 weeks ago...30 days later I had my 2nd shot with NO sides.....Here's wishing you the same results
mrideout...Good luck with your situation and Happy Holidays...God Bless
mrideout...Good luck with your situation and Happy Holidays...God Bless
Gosh, I sure hope you're wrong. I just had my first Hep B shot last week and my Hep A shot yesterday!
Susan
Susan
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