Aa
On "tnf + int" seroconversion
seroconversion idea is a russian roulette basically...
it's not different than sports bet - where everything is possible but you use the knowledge you have about the strongest team you think is going to win and you put the bet on them... Or stock market, where you might buy share of arrowhead cause you think they might cure hbv, but their cure might turn out to be a failure and you will lose your money... same thing with this "tnf + int"... based on this studies or other studies let's say you have 6-10% to seroconvert... would you gamble with your health? You might win and cure yourself, or you might put your health at risk... Ofcourse if it had higher % rate of seroconversion it would be a different story. I think no doctor knows how to cure this, simply because there is no proven cure, and everything is just pure luck... It's not like when they found the cure to hep c, when the study shows very high cure rate... it's just not the case with hep b, at least not for the foreseeable future. But it's surprising to see what optimism and hope it generates these 6-10%... I would say all this obsession about it is like buying penny stocks...
it's not different than sports bet - where everything is possible but you use the knowledge you have about the strongest team you think is going to win and you put the bet on them... Or stock market, where you might buy share of arrowhead cause you think they might cure hbv, but their cure might turn out to be a failure and you will lose your money... same thing with this "tnf + int"... based on this studies or other studies let's say you have 6-10% to seroconvert... would you gamble with your health? You might win and cure yourself, or you might put your health at risk... Ofcourse if it had higher % rate of seroconversion it would be a different story. I think no doctor knows how to cure this, simply because there is no proven cure, and everything is just pure luck... It's not like when they found the cure to hep c, when the study shows very high cure rate... it's just not the case with hep b, at least not for the foreseeable future. But it's surprising to see what optimism and hope it generates these 6-10%... I would say all this obsession about it is like buying penny stocks...
It was Cihan Yurdaydin, MD, although I'm not sure if there is an easy way to contact him, and even if so, I don't think he will respond to me or if there is even a point to try to contact him. What do you want me to ask him specifically?
I mean you tried to show this study as a counter-argument to my original post, but as you see it's not very against what I said. Plus it's not even a full study article, but few summary paragraphs.
I mean you tried to show this study as a counter-argument to my original post, but as you see it's not very against what I said. Plus it's not even a full study article, but few summary paragraphs.
Why dont you contact the leeding scientist/gastro on this trial? Im because your scientific reasoning is so sound they would want to engage in an adult intelligent conversation with you
Whats your thoughts?
Yes you might be cured but with low chances for that... You can also have serious side effects from the treatment and die too but probably also not very high chances... Everything is possible... Just because they cure people doesn't mean everyone can reproduce this... The real question that you need to ask is how likely it is to affect you based on all of these studies?
I wish there was like some computer program... where you give it an input all of these studies and it turns into a mathematical model, then you enter all the information about yourself and then it calculates what are the best way for you to go... I mean this is basically what science and research are doing for general populations... but doctors usually won't investigate it specifically for you since they don't have time and will just follow the general guidelines based on the general populations... but a computer program could actually calculate it for you individually...
I wish there was like some computer program... where you give it an input all of these studies and it turns into a mathematical model, then you enter all the information about yourself and then it calculates what are the best way for you to go... I mean this is basically what science and research are doing for general populations... but doctors usually won't investigate it specifically for you since they don't have time and will just follow the general guidelines based on the general populations... but a computer program could actually calculate it for you individually...
I read the article...
First none of the studies can be accessed when you click on any of the blue link number of the study it asks for a user and password... Are any of these studies available in full version? especially study #1 which is the most relevant?
Based on what the summaries say at least Study #2 is not very relevant since it talks about HBeAg-positive CHB patients with compensated liver-disease which I don't think most of us are.
Study #3 only suggested that adding on a NUC for six weeks to PegIFNalfa-2a does not enhance treatment response - not saying anything about seroconversion success
Study #1 which I guess is the most relevant although doesn't say if the population was e postive or negative (important) said this:
"CHB patients who had failed on prior long-term exposure to one of the nucleoside analogue (NUC) antivirals demonstrated high rates of complete response and HBsAg loss when prescribed a sequential combination of peginterferon and NUC."
the actual data on this:
"Compared with NUC monotherapy, significantly more patients in the combination therapy group achieved complete response (HBeAg loss composited with HBV DNA< 2000 IU/ml) (60.24% vs. 13.8%) and HBsAg loss (27.7% vs. 0%)."
So we have something about hbeag loss which I guess not relevant for most people (I assume most of the population is e negative), and then the hbsag loss which again doesn't say what was specific about this population were they e postivee or negative? 27.7% is still pretty low if you ask me... also it doesn't say what was the initial hbsag levels... they only measure it at baseline which is 12 weeks and 24 weeks...
Again we need to see the full study to see what were the side effects and more specifics about the population they used...
First none of the studies can be accessed when you click on any of the blue link number of the study it asks for a user and password... Are any of these studies available in full version? especially study #1 which is the most relevant?
Based on what the summaries say at least Study #2 is not very relevant since it talks about HBeAg-positive CHB patients with compensated liver-disease which I don't think most of us are.
Study #3 only suggested that adding on a NUC for six weeks to PegIFNalfa-2a does not enhance treatment response - not saying anything about seroconversion success
Study #1 which I guess is the most relevant although doesn't say if the population was e postive or negative (important) said this:
"CHB patients who had failed on prior long-term exposure to one of the nucleoside analogue (NUC) antivirals demonstrated high rates of complete response and HBsAg loss when prescribed a sequential combination of peginterferon and NUC."
the actual data on this:
"Compared with NUC monotherapy, significantly more patients in the combination therapy group achieved complete response (HBeAg loss composited with HBV DNA< 2000 IU/ml) (60.24% vs. 13.8%) and HBsAg loss (27.7% vs. 0%)."
So we have something about hbeag loss which I guess not relevant for most people (I assume most of the population is e negative), and then the hbsag loss which again doesn't say what was specific about this population were they e postivee or negative? 27.7% is still pretty low if you ask me... also it doesn't say what was the initial hbsag levels... they only measure it at baseline which is 12 weeks and 24 weeks...
Again we need to see the full study to see what were the side effects and more specifics about the population they used...
Im really sorry this EASL publication doesnt back up your views.
Maybe go and tell them they are misleading people aswell?
See if they will take any notice of you lol
Maybe go and tell them they are misleading people aswell?
See if they will take any notice of you lol
http://virtualpressoffice.easl.eu/three-new-studies-help-clarify-optimal-use-of-combination-therapy-in-chronic-hepatitis-b-patients
Hope this helps!
Hope this helps!
or you may be cured.
I found on another thread stef2011 said it might be even 11%-20% not sure what study that is based on... (can someone provide a link that prove that)
How many of you would try to see if they are the lucky among 6%-20% that clear?
Also would you try it knowing the possible risks? E.g. damage to liver, long side effects from inteferon (after finishing treatment), virus mutate even further to be drug-resistent to ent/int, virus becomes more violent, for naive treatment who try - you might need to continue taking drugs the rest of your life if you will not clear (long term toxicity involved), and other I can't think of right now...
How many of you would try to see if they are the lucky among 6%-20% that clear?
Also would you try it knowing the possible risks? E.g. damage to liver, long side effects from inteferon (after finishing treatment), virus mutate even further to be drug-resistent to ent/int, virus becomes more violent, for naive treatment who try - you might need to continue taking drugs the rest of your life if you will not clear (long term toxicity involved), and other I can't think of right now...
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