Aa
Am I depressed?
I've been taking peginterferon and rebatol for 20 weeks.
What are the depression symptoms? I feel very weak, tired and no motivation
in doing nothing and have hard problems sleeping.
Am I depressed?
Am I depressed because I'm tired or am I tired because am depressed? In other words...Does it start from my brain or my body??
I'm so confused.
Can the meds I'm taking do that?
What are the depression symptoms? I feel very weak, tired and no motivation
in doing nothing and have hard problems sleeping.
Am I depressed?
Am I depressed because I'm tired or am I tired because am depressed? In other words...Does it start from my brain or my body??
I'm so confused.
Can the meds I'm taking do that?
You open your eyes, stir up and feel achy and in pain, bingo! you then feel depressed. It is a natural reaction to an ongoing state of being. Is it clinical depression? The mini mental I had to take monthly during tx did not think so. There are specific questions that will signal the provider that we are entering a danger zone. What we feel is a natural progression to the tx and sometimes to the chronic infection itself.
Before dx, I felt mildly depressed, I was achy and fatigued and just felt plain "not right". I thought it was all in my head. HCV dx was a blessing in that respect. It validated my suspicions. Mild damage aside, I wanted that feeling gone, as well as HCV. Why wait until I felt worse or my liver took a nose dive?
Remember how we felt when we had a cold, the flu or a fever? The body slows us down while we heal. We feel yucky. But is short lived. So we get over feeling bad. Most of us go on a very long tx journey. We have to live with this feeling for what seems forever. It is going to be demoralizing. If our providers do not find a good effective pain med for us to get relief, the bad feeling will remain with us for the duration of tx. I was able to take Vicoprofen(hydrocodone+ibuprofen) and that was a med that allowed me to continue working and going to the Y weekly. And then the Procrit was added also.
I still felt mentally exhausted, and the apathy was overwhelming, but the mentioned meds took a lot of the edge off. You must INSIST on effective medications to have a shot at some normalcy. The hydrocodone had the added benefit of keeping my intestinal cramps under control as well as the runny nose and cough. It had a multipurpose for me, just one med.
That is why they are treating depressed individuals with chronic pain with pain killers and antidepressants, because it is a vicious cycle.
Pain=depression=more sensitivity and intolerance to pain.
The apathy can be such, that we don't even want to make the effort to try and feel better, we don't even care if we do feel better. Scary feeling, apathy is.
I chose not to add any ADs because of their own sides, and stuck to the pain med(worry about dependance later), which also aided in keeping me calm.
This site mentions the articles related to health and happiness, you can check the magazines and books out at the library.
http://www.time.com/time/2005/happiness/
remember the dr Robin Williams portrayed in the movie "Patch" Adams? It was a true story.
Before dx, I felt mildly depressed, I was achy and fatigued and just felt plain "not right". I thought it was all in my head. HCV dx was a blessing in that respect. It validated my suspicions. Mild damage aside, I wanted that feeling gone, as well as HCV. Why wait until I felt worse or my liver took a nose dive?
Remember how we felt when we had a cold, the flu or a fever? The body slows us down while we heal. We feel yucky. But is short lived. So we get over feeling bad. Most of us go on a very long tx journey. We have to live with this feeling for what seems forever. It is going to be demoralizing. If our providers do not find a good effective pain med for us to get relief, the bad feeling will remain with us for the duration of tx. I was able to take Vicoprofen(hydrocodone+ibuprofen) and that was a med that allowed me to continue working and going to the Y weekly. And then the Procrit was added also.
I still felt mentally exhausted, and the apathy was overwhelming, but the mentioned meds took a lot of the edge off. You must INSIST on effective medications to have a shot at some normalcy. The hydrocodone had the added benefit of keeping my intestinal cramps under control as well as the runny nose and cough. It had a multipurpose for me, just one med.
That is why they are treating depressed individuals with chronic pain with pain killers and antidepressants, because it is a vicious cycle.
Pain=depression=more sensitivity and intolerance to pain.
The apathy can be such, that we don't even want to make the effort to try and feel better, we don't even care if we do feel better. Scary feeling, apathy is.
I chose not to add any ADs because of their own sides, and stuck to the pain med(worry about dependance later), which also aided in keeping me calm.
This site mentions the articles related to health and happiness, you can check the magazines and books out at the library.
http://www.time.com/time/2005/happiness/
remember the dr Robin Williams portrayed in the movie "Patch" Adams? It was a true story.
I hope to be where you are some day. Congrats on the 'cure'. In the years since tx how has the improvement to your liver been demonstrated, blood work, enzymes, subsequent biopsy, scan? I'm curious to know, beyond PCR at 6mos. + what kinds of liver follow-ups you may have pursued in the past 3 yrs.
JIM, IS THIS THE ARTICLE YOU ARE LOOKING FOR on pot?
"Daily Smoking of Cannabis Is a Risk Factor for Fibrosis Progression in Persons with Chronic Hepatitis C".
http://www.hivandhepatitis.com/2004icr/39easl/documents/0426/042604_hcv_6.html
"This study discloses a strong link between daily cannabis consumption and fibrosis progression rate in patients with hepatitis C and supports our experimental data demonstrating the profibrogenic role of CB1 receptors. Daily cannabis smoking should be avoided in patients with chronic hepatitis C."
OR TRY THIS LINK...
http://hepcassoc.org/aasld2004.html#cannabis
the other thing i've heard of is that good adherence to tx leads to better treatment outcomes. i asume that drugs like pot and others as well as alcholol can cause folks to space out their treatment scheduals and perhaps forget doses...
http://www.hcvadvocate.org/hepatitis/hepC/hs-9.html
but, i still couldnt find the an article about pot and svr outcomes... sorry! hey if you ever find it can you pass it along to me too? thanks jim?
"AND NOW FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT..."
*RITILIN,RITILIN,RITILIN*
I still think the Ritalin is NOT worth the added HCC risk "because we already have a risk of getting liver cancer just from having the hep c". Increasing the odds of getting liver cancer would be really stupid... like begging for cancer, "could I please have a better chance of getting some cancer in my liver, please dr??? all i want is just a little better chance of getting it than just this dumb old hep c.
heeheeheee...really though!:0)
Hepatitis C and Hepatocellular Carcinoma
http://www.hepnet.com/nih/bisceg.html
"Chronic hepatitis C can cause cirrhosis, liver failure, and liver cancer. Researchers estimate that at least 20 percent of patients with chronic hepatitis C develop cirrhosis, a process that takes at least 10 to 20 years. After 20 to 40 years, a smaller percentage of patients with chronic disease develop liver cancer"...
i wouldn't want to increase those odds just for a reason of being weak and tired...that's hardly a life or death issue requiring a posible "cancer" risk solution!!!....its not like fatigue will kill us if not treated...so i don't agree with your idea that we must do it to be able to stay on the tx to achieve svr...
you know most of us get that from the tx and from the hep c, and its a bummer for sure... but most seem to manage...and in 3 years of comming to this forum i have never heard of anyone seriously suggesting starting Ritalin for fatigue...what about the increase in heart attack risk?
***************************************************************
HOW ABOUT SOME HEALTHIER IDEAS OF HOW TO INCREASE OUR ENERGY???***************************************************************
don't forget that alot of that fatigue comes from low hemaglobin or rbc's... "Procrit" could be the clincher!! this would definately help them feel better and have more energy, as well as other benifits...with no risk of liver cancer.
is the person getting enough sleep and rest?...how about some ambian? there's nothing like getting extra sleep to begin feeling more energetic during the day.
are they fatigued from aches and pains?..."Tramadol", which is non adictive is really helpful in this...and my hepatologist says tylanol taken as directed is safe on the liver if compensated...i only take one if the tramadol dose'nt do the trick and it gets me through.
what about green tea or coffee??? they both increase energy and both have positive things written about them concerning liver health...
AND THEN THERE'S ALWAYS EXCERSIZE!!! YUCKY BUT WORKS!
CHOCOLATE.... gives me energy and has been shown to have alot of antioxident benifts in the cocoa flavanoids...helps skinny folks gain weight too if eaten in large quanities <;0) heeheehee...
see doesn't that sound better? have a cup of coffee with a chocolet bar...yummmmmm! that's what i do every morning to wake my butt up and getter going!!!
(there is a new "health" chocolet bar sold only on the internet called "COCOA VIA" at www.cocoavia.com, that boasts making the chocolate in the very best way to researve the healthful cocoa flavanoids, it also has soybean extract and great healthy vitamins as well... like e and c and folic acid, calcium, b6 and b12....healthy, yummy and will open your eyes and git ya movin!!!...)
i eat the "chocolate blueberry crunch bar", they also have cherry and other flavors, only 80 cals and 2gms fat... with real blueberries in each one...i have one for breakfast with meds and coffee... we're suppose to have a bit of fat with our meds anyway...it helps the meds metabilize to the system correctly...
*coffee may have benefits against liver cancer...
http://www.hepatitisneighborhood.com/content/in_the_news/archive_2488.aspx
Green tea protects livers...
http://www.news-medical.net/?id=7841
Green Tea Ingredient Might Block Fatty Liver: Study...
http://www.hepatitisneighborhood.com/content/in_the_news/archive_2263.aspx
but, if a person's dead set on receiving their energy from a pill... than ask the dr about safer meds than ritalin because of its liver cancer risks. i bet there must be some prescription out there that has similar effects as the ritalin on energy but without the added liver cancer reports...
my Prozac gives me energy...it's an AD plus gives me extra energy...and also has helped me not to have any depression in the two years i've been on tx... not too bad i say...but weight loss effects make it a bad choice for thin folks suffering from lack of appetite on tx...prozack will make that worse...
some other AD'S spoken of giving energy are bupropion [Wellbutrin], reboxetine [edronax] or moclobemide [aurorix]? Paroxetine...but i have NO idea if they are safe for the liver... a trusted hepatologist could give some ideas on that to the patient with depression needing extra energy...
All i know is that an increased risk of liver cancer for hep c patients is not a good idea at all...esp. for a reason such as a need for more energy...this is hardly a life or death issue...worse thing that happens if we say no to ritalin is we're exhausted and have associated problems due to that...but it is all temparary and none fatal...
this person also should start getting used to this "exhaustion" effect from the TX and learn to adjust to it...we need much more rest and avoid alot of difficult physical challenges...we are sick!!! and it's okay to rest and just be sick...and getting rid of hep c is our main priority...not even our jobs are more important than our lives...we must do what we must do to get rid of this killer hep c......it's hard to do if ones been a "DOER or WORKAHOLIC" for thier whole life...its hard to settle down and expect way less from ourselfs and simplify life and expectations...also when we are sick we must have lots of rest and "getting free of c" takes all priority in our lives because THAT is a life and death issue for us, our friends, and family.
hey Jim, just curious why you said that "YOU" decided against the ritalin???
YOUR TROUBLE MAKER PAL,
SANDI <;0)~
hey, all trouble making aside, how are you feeling Jim? any better at all? i sure hope so. i haven't been able to get on the computer that often do to the shut down probs...but, i'm praying your feelin better Jimbo...
sandi
Hi trouble maker. :)
I'm not really for Ritalin or even against Pot in all cases.
Regarding the ritalin, I was just answering someone's question which if I remember correctly was if ritalin is prescribed for hep c related depressive syndrome and the answer is "yes".
My shrink recommended it and similar drugs are recommended and talked about in a recent and very interesting web cast at Projects In Knowledge.
And, yes, I decided not to take it for a number of reasons including the fact Ritalin is an appetite suppresant and I had already lost 20 pounds by that time -- although I didn't have any info that it was bad for your liver. My uneducated guess is that like a lot of drugs many of us take (including tylenol) ritalin in appropriate quantities is OK, otherwise it would not be so widely prescribed. Again, not recommending ritalin, just pointing out it's one more tool to get people through tx and they should discuss all of its potential side effects (including its addictive nature) with their doctor. Same thing for Provigil which is equally addictive and probably more widely prescribed for Hep C patients.
On the pot -- pot doesn't agree with me anymore or otherwise I would have taken it (medical pot or otherwise) early on in tx for
nausea and appetite enhancement. That said, I did see some articles about pot and fibrosis progression that you seemed to pull up. Haven't had a chance to re-read them -- did you get anything out of the articles? I would think it's something to think about.
I agree there are other more natural ways -- some of which you listed -- to help with energy levels during tx. In the end, you gotta to what you gotta do to get through. We all are different and some things work better for us than others.
-- Jim
I'm not really for Ritalin or even against Pot in all cases.
Regarding the ritalin, I was just answering someone's question which if I remember correctly was if ritalin is prescribed for hep c related depressive syndrome and the answer is "yes".
My shrink recommended it and similar drugs are recommended and talked about in a recent and very interesting web cast at Projects In Knowledge.
And, yes, I decided not to take it for a number of reasons including the fact Ritalin is an appetite suppresant and I had already lost 20 pounds by that time -- although I didn't have any info that it was bad for your liver. My uneducated guess is that like a lot of drugs many of us take (including tylenol) ritalin in appropriate quantities is OK, otherwise it would not be so widely prescribed. Again, not recommending ritalin, just pointing out it's one more tool to get people through tx and they should discuss all of its potential side effects (including its addictive nature) with their doctor. Same thing for Provigil which is equally addictive and probably more widely prescribed for Hep C patients.
On the pot -- pot doesn't agree with me anymore or otherwise I would have taken it (medical pot or otherwise) early on in tx for
nausea and appetite enhancement. That said, I did see some articles about pot and fibrosis progression that you seemed to pull up. Haven't had a chance to re-read them -- did you get anything out of the articles? I would think it's something to think about.
I agree there are other more natural ways -- some of which you listed -- to help with energy levels during tx. In the end, you gotta to what you gotta do to get through. We all are different and some things work better for us than others.
-- Jim
The only study I've seen, not sure if it's the only one people refer to around here; has two major flaws for you to consider.
One: Many test subjects also used other recreational drugs and/or drank alcohol. Two: The charting of fibrosis progression showed no difference from the % of error due to taking samples from different parts of the liver or from different pathologist reading the same samples. So take it for what it's worth. We are not talking about chronic use here, we are talking about occasional use for the relief of sx from these toxic drugs. I bet your pain meds are doing a hell of alot more damage. Peace
One: Many test subjects also used other recreational drugs and/or drank alcohol. Two: The charting of fibrosis progression showed no difference from the % of error due to taking samples from different parts of the liver or from different pathologist reading the same samples. So take it for what it's worth. We are not talking about chronic use here, we are talking about occasional use for the relief of sx from these toxic drugs. I bet your pain meds are doing a hell of alot more damage. Peace
I support pot (medical or otherwise) for sx on tx as long as it is tolerated.Unfortunately, for me it isn't.
What we were talking about I believe is chronic use and whether or not it effects fibrosis progression. I think that's what the study Sandi referenced above is about, although not really up to rummaging through it now. Here's another study (or maybe the same) that I had marked.
http://www.natap.org/2005/HCV/062705_01.htm
I'm presenting this informational purposes only. No dog in this fight as I'm a non-pot smoker for other reasons and therefore have had no motivation to do any in-depth research. Maybe those that are chronic uses will pursue this more.
-- Jim
What we were talking about I believe is chronic use and whether or not it effects fibrosis progression. I think that's what the study Sandi referenced above is about, although not really up to rummaging through it now. Here's another study (or maybe the same) that I had marked.
http://www.natap.org/2005/HCV/062705_01.htm
I'm presenting this informational purposes only. No dog in this fight as I'm a non-pot smoker for other reasons and therefore have had no motivation to do any in-depth research. Maybe those that are chronic uses will pursue this more.
-- Jim
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