Dealing with the crazies...

[Laika]

Week 4 and I

[cigaso]

I was dx with HCV end of last year. I have my meds I start my treatment next week. I have been taking Lexapro for almost a year for mygraines and panic attacks. I can not give any personal experience taking Lexapro while on tx. Well, Not until next week. Lexapro is a SSRI and affects your serotonin levels in you brain. In other words, it increases your serotonin levels that have been depleted by being overly stressed. It is believed this also causes depression. Lexapro, like most other drugs, affects everyone differently and because of this you should call your GP and tell him/her your symptons.

[scruffy]

I can't really speak for the mania part but I did 48/48 on peg-intron/1200mg riba and avoided AD's for my own reasons. My worst and longest lasting side was depression. It almost killed me quite honestly. My advice is to go ahead with the AD's and when tx is done you can deal with getting rid of them also. Kinda sucks-but you do what you have to and hopefully come out of this dancin'. frank (hang in there)

[stan1]

some of what you describe sounds similar to bipolar disorder -- rather than start the lexapro, which i assume was prescribed by your your hep doc before treatment, i'd recommend seeing a psychiatrist and detailing your recent experiences for him/her.   that will enable the psych-doc to select the appropriate medication for you -- sometimes "mood stabilizers" are used rather than conventional ADs and your hep doc probably does not have the specialized knowledge necessary to select the proper starting med for you -- if you are experiencing manic episodes, certain psych-medications can exacerbate this syndrome, including some of the traditional ADs and SSRIs.   good luck,  
stan

[pepman]

My worst days have been fatique=depression=raging.But I thank God for the fatique, because I've been hcv+ for thirty-five years-only found out aboutit 15 years ago through blood donor screening and chose to ingnore it. Then my wife said one day you look tired. Why dont't you ask your doctor about hcv? I had elevated enzymes, biopsied at stage 2-3 of liver inflammation and stage 2 amount of liver damage. I'm now in week 42/48 and so far have SVR.In the early going you are doubly stressed because you dont' know if its going to be all for nothing. Reading novels helps me I'm on about the 50 th novel since Tx .In fact the words in the Ludlum novel i'm reading right now jumped out at me. The beleaguered agent after a narrow excape Says "Rest, then think, then rest. Rest is a Weapon, often more potent than firepower" an old trainer had told him.So slow down, expect to feel crappy, but don't expect too much of yourself during Tx. Stay with Tx
Brian

[new-sojourn]

The only thing that will shrink if you see a shrink is your bank account.

I did the 24wks of peg-intron and riba and it hit me like speed!  I had to do my shots-3 weekly-not 1-in the morning and then I cleaned and organized and gardened and walked the dogs.  I would spend lotsa nites on the 'net listening to country music when I couldn't sleep.

I took naps and seiesta times when needed and don't sweat the small stuff.

I'm also a medical marijuana user and didn't need any other AD's or sleep meds, etc.

Embrace your inner speed freak!  My partner frequently bemoans the fact that if I had only been on tx a few more wks I could have gotten the storage shed cleaned out.

I was infected in 1967 and didn't know about the hep c until my liver failed and I had a major bleed that was nearly unstoppable on 9-12-2001.  2 wks later I was tested for hep c.

During the late '80's and early 90's I saw a shrink almost daily.  B/I wasn't crazy or lazy, I was going thru all the mid to early late stages of liver disease and all the suble complications.  And no one, esp the dr shrink could put it together.

That's why I don't do AD's or shrinks any more.  Oh, I cl'd by day 18-2b-and that was 3 yrs ago.

[cuteus]

I was quite energetic for about 5 wks in early tx, but not to the point of mania, i agree with getting a mental health proffessional dx and select the proper med for you, not your GI.  For me it was depression, if that is what you call it, none of the questions in my mini electronic mental Health test at the GI office really addressed it. It was 3 wks of emotional void; did not feel sad, glad, angry, nada. It was scary and on that 3rd wk I was contemplating going for help.  I waitted a little longer and it finally lifted, and I learned to be awared and manage the smaller episodes, but you need a professional, not us to advice you, we can only tell you what worked for us.

[Laika]

I thank everyone for their comments so far.  Perhaps I am using the word "mania" a little loosely.  I have known a bi polar person before, and they seemed to have no control at all if they didn't stay on their meds; they might wake up with a hangover next to a stranger in some hotel somewhere.  Believe me, that's not going to happen.  I guess everyone on treatment struggles with assorted instability, and this is just my particular flavor.

I'm with new sojourn on this one: hating shrinks.  I spent a couple of years a long time ago being someone's prozac experiment and didn't care for it much. Indeed, since beginning treatment, I have been embracing my inner speed freak, enjoying the contrast from the former fatigue.  New Soj:  did you not crash from the speediness?...end up with fatigue & depression or both?  I guess what you're saying is yes, but just speed when you're speeding, crash when you're crashing and don't worry about it.  I'll work on that idea.  I'm a worrier and it gets me into trouble.

I will not quit treatment, that much I know...it's not even a remote consideration.  I'm just feeling my way toward the best way to handle this.  If the Lexapro would level out the extreme highs & lows, I'd move in that direction.  But if it's just going to give me some new issues to deal with, then I guess I'll keep zooming & crashing.

pepman, I loved your advice about reading.  I haven't done it much lately and miss it.  The speediness interferes with reading, but maybe just need some different reading material and don't try to read when I'm speedy, just when I'm slow.

Thank you all for responding & helping with perspective.

Laika

[Laika]

I forgot to say: just looking for patient advice here, how others were affected and how they worked things out, not psych advice.  ...Whether anyone had the speedy reaction as well as depression, whether they took AD's, whether improved situation, if so how.  I understand AD's work differently for everyone.  When I told my dr about the speediness, he said it was sometimes a side of the interferon, and that there would be lows too, so be aware.  I just didn't see that side addressed here, which surprises me.  So thought I'd shake the tree & see what fell out, maybe some good information.

Thank you for your response here, and for your many other posts addressing other concerns.  I always read them with interest.

Laika

[twotells]

To me , you seem too thoughtful and balanced to be in some clinical mania.  There are some bad psychotherapists and some good- they are not all of one stripe.

I'm grateful for my Paxil (taken for anxiety before HCV tx), because the INF/Ribavirin took me into depression beyond the normal blues.  I had always been able to bounce back from occasional blues, but during my 96 weeks of INF I lost that.  How much worse the depression would've been without SSRI's.  I wish all drugs had as few side effects and gave so much as the SSRI's.

I wish you the best,  Dave

[honey1616]

Laika,,,Everything you described seemed pretty normal to be on tx.  Do whatever you need to do to fine tune your tx the best you can.  If that means,,,Getting some AD,,,then try that and see if it helps. Tx for me was just like you stated,,,rollercoaster,,,highs and lows.  There was some days,,I could do so much but like you said,,,,it was a speedy feeling and didn't feel right and then I would crash for a couple of days and feel drained.  If you are in for a year,,,that is a long time,,,,Try to pace yourself and not overdo. I had a tv tray by my bed and it was loaded with remedies,,,,LOL,,,lotions for skin,,,headache medicine,,,etc.  It got so full towards end,,,LOL  I was afraid it might topple over!  Coming here also helped me,,,just knowing others were going through same thing. Hope today is a good one for you!

Pepman,,,Wow,,,you are almost done and the end,,,Great to hear!  I sure do envy you the way you can read on tx.  I love to read! But honestly,,,,on tx,,,,my attention span was so short,,,I could not stay with it long enough and was uninterested.  I'm just now starting to read again!

[missers]

My husband begins second round of tx in a few weeks and he's been trying to decide if he wants to take the Lexapro this time around.  He handled tx pretty well on the first try but said the thoughts that buzzed around in his head were worse than the side effects from the tx drugs.  He did take Lexapro throughout and now he wonders if he can go through tx without it.  He's putting the blame on the Lexapro for his "crazies".  I told him he could always try to go without and if he feels he's "losing it" he can ask the doc for Zoloft again.  

Anyone other than Scruffy go without?

[honey1616]

I chose to wait it out also on the Ads and always about time I would notice that depressed feeling and was thinking about calling the dr the next day,,,,I would feel better so Yes...I made it through tx without that.  Best of Luck to your Hubby!

[honey1616]

Sorry to break in here,,,,But the PCR on hubby....Still Clear!!
Yeahhhhhh!!!!  Just received the news!

[Califia]

Laika, people tend not to talk about these things, but these are powerful psychotropic drugs we're taking (as you've just discovered), and the mental effects tend to get underplayed, if anything.   When my thyroid crashed I had to resort to increasing Zoloft--there!  I confessed!--and if I don't keep calcium and magnesium up, I can feel it, i.e., my anxiety level increases.  (You ever try a gram of magnesium when you're bouncing off the ceiling?   Could help.)   I've had serious writers block for the last several months, a thoroughly shot attention span, dyslexia, you name it.  And am constantly congratulated on well and sane I am.  Hahahahahahaha......

Anything we need to do to get through this is A-okay.  So go ahead: we'll never tell.   And maybe Snook will come on to describe his experience with Lexapro, which he found pretty benign, if I remember correctly.

[Tallblonde]

Hi Califia -- quick question for you on the same basic topic.  Do you know if SAM-e and St. John's Wort can be taken together?  My recent circumstances are making me a bit blue, but I don't want to spend the money on a higher dosage of SAM-e (I currently take 400 mg. daily and it's doing a fine job of keeping my joints nimble).  What's your opinion?  Thanks!

Susan

[cuteus]

missers; read my comment, I did not go for it.

Honey!!!! I want to jump up and down in joy, but I am at work!! I would surely be carted out with a Lexapro IV!  I am so happy, is HE jumping up and down or doing a jig?

[lackalustre]

wow this is one long thread.  seems everyone can relate!!   from the first shot on i felt like i was plugged into a light socket.
   i have been an up/down person too. i tried many AD's prior to treatment and they all made me sick or feel like i was plugged into an electrical socket.  lexapro too.  and it gave me terrible acid reflux.
   i used trazadone during tx.  low dose.  it sedates and ups your seratonin.  some do the best on that especially if you are speedy.
   if you are indeed a manic depressive and i may be  too.    most anti depressants can make it worse.   my dr. said manic depression is much more common than people think. he just attended a big seminar on depression.  some can have different degrees of it or be called rapid cyclers. ( even if you arent doing big spending sprees or having grandiose ideas...)   i know i have to be careful with anti depressants.   the mental side effects were the hardest for me i think during tx..  but i did clear the virus with a lot of determinations.

[honey1616]

Laika,,,Looks like everyone can relate to the mental side and that is the toughest because many times you do feel like you are losing it. I always blamed it on the drugs and you can use that to your advantage at times LOL
Yep,,,funny but that tv tray did have all necessities for the crazy year!  There was a lady that used to come here that completed treatment and offered advice..For you oldies out there (Cindee) She always had me cracking up,,,She had figured out everything to make tx easier and said in the mornings while on tx,,,,She would feel 2 of 2 liter bottles and put in freezer to chill and then during day,,,would have them by the couch so she wouldn't have to get up..LOL   She always had a little cooler filled with goodies and saved her trips to kitchen.  And you know how we forget everything,,,She had remote, reading glasses everything right by her so she was set to go. Before starting tx,,,and reading her stories,,,I was in shock that we may actually turn into a veggie on the sofa and have to drink so much water.  I could always relate to her posts after starting tx....If I lost something,,,I would get so overworked just looking for simplest things...You know how it is!  Well anyways,,,you just joined the secret club for awhile and can relate so enjoy and laugh at yourself,,,Makes time go faster!

Scruffy,,,,lol How funny!  Great Idea,,,I told him tonite dinner was on him since he was feeling great!!

Thanks Susan for the good wishes!

Twotells,,,you are right,,,I think if you can make it to 3 month ok,,,then 6 month shouldn't be as bad!  Good Luck on the 6 but sounds like you already are clear!!

[stc1993]

I was kind of like you described. doctor gave me zanax calmed me down & helps you sleep.

Honey,

Congratulations to you & your husband. We need all the good news we can get.

Monte

[donAlfonso]

That's such great news!!  Congrats to you both.  And relax and forget about those odds for a while!

dA

[Califia]

HONEY,  wonderful wonderful wonderful wonderful!  

LAIKA,  we _are_ playing it rather close to the vest right now, no lurid descriptions of  weird emotional states and physical disintegration....I know, just no fun.  Worry not, it gets as bad as all that and then a few weeks later you're on the other side of it--ah yes, THAT's how I look, I remember now....

Embrace your inner speed freak, sez New Sojourn.   Great advice, because I think you'll find the high is rather short-lived.   The overall drug effect reminds me of a gray winter's day I spent in the Everglades:  flat gray water, flat gray sky, with an occasional burst of pink flamingo wings shattering the monotony.   And of course the relentless buzz of mosquitoes in the background--NNNNnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.

Brian's great "rest and think" story reminds me of an old walrus-like Russian who was holding court at the shallow end of a swimming pool.  This guy had been reprimanded many times before for slowing the progress of the lap swimmers.   So as I made my approach, this enormous man made a courtly bow indicating his willingness to remove his huge bulk from my path, and inquired sweetly, "You svwim? You rest?"  

This is a time for more resting than svwimming,  I think.  Da?   But first you get to bounce around for a while.

[Califia]

Susan, I can't think of any reason why doubling up with St. John's Wort and Sam-e would be a problem.  I hope it gives you some relief.

[honey1616]

Chev,,,Thanks!!  And yes,,,,Oh Happy Days!!  

Cuteus,,,Yes,,,he is so happy! He has called our daughters and told them that this is definitely good news but still have 2 more tests to conquer...6 and year.  They were literally screaming! ha  Its relief at this very moment and we just never know what kind of a toll this takes on our other family members. Our girls have been worried sick since last year and if anything,,,,I want for them to be able to have a break or peace of mind...
I wanted to ask you,,,,what does that up chances of making it to the 3 month?  Isn't it 80 or 85%?  

Thanks again to you all as seeing the highs and lows that we are all going through and still hanging in here and helping so many!!  I really don't know what I would have done with out all of you!

[hepcgetlost]

What you describe is definitely within the realm of tx sides, and as you can see from the other posts, many of us relate to what you're experiencing. Since you asked, I've been on lexapro since a few months before starting treatment. At first I balked, never having taken ADs and not wanting to. But I did try it, and after about 4 weeks, I felt better. When I was into treatment and lexapro for a year, I tried to cut down the lexapro from 20 mg to 10 mg, and it was a disaster. Went back to 20 mg and I'm much better now. I would hate to think what these last 66 weeks would have been like without the lexapro. I have 6 weeks to go before I'm done, and after that I'll deal with weaning myself off the lexapro. Take in what we all have to say, get some good medical advice, and listen to your own body. Each of us reacts differently to all these meds, so what works for me, may not work for you and vice versa. Good luck with everything.  Judi :-)