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Hepatitis Researcher importance of TH1 response
I aked you before in a previous post what, if any, your thoughts were in regards to SVR and a vigorous TH1 favored immune response. I'm started to beleive that it is exactly this shift from the dominating Th2 response to a more 'viral hungry" TH1 response which determines svr at the end of treatment. In other words, people who acheive svr are also maintaining a strong Th1 response at the end of treatment which in turn may be keeping any viral remnants in check. People who fail to acheive svr maybe reverting back to the old virally favorable TH2 arm of the immune system when the drugs are removed from their systems. Do you think my hypothesis is credible?
I hear what you are saying. People all respond in different ways to interferon, and some who did short courses end up having more post-tx problems than some who extended. Its a 'crapshoot' because we all react differently. I know you have a number of different variables that 'you think' could be responsible for the post-tx problems. That's fine.
The one thing that seems to be similar though in the post-tx cases, is that the real problems begin right after using interferon. Not due to having had the virus for 20 or 30 years, for many people. Many who develop these post treatment problems have felt fine with the virus for decades. Any observer would easily note that the one changing variable is the interferon.
This is logically the variable that you would explore...just like lung cancer and cigarette smokers. Their lung cancer MAY have come from other behaviors, but those three packs a day for thirty years sure warrant some attention, as a cause.
When doctors, researchers, and post-tx SVR's recognize interferon as a likely cause of these problems, your voice can be the opposing view representing those who cannot believe that interferon could do all these things. Maybe you are right. Maybe doctors and treaters that we hear from don't know what they are talking about.
But I seriously doubt it.
DoubleDose
The one thing that seems to be similar though in the post-tx cases, is that the real problems begin right after using interferon. Not due to having had the virus for 20 or 30 years, for many people. Many who develop these post treatment problems have felt fine with the virus for decades. Any observer would easily note that the one changing variable is the interferon.
This is logically the variable that you would explore...just like lung cancer and cigarette smokers. Their lung cancer MAY have come from other behaviors, but those three packs a day for thirty years sure warrant some attention, as a cause.
When doctors, researchers, and post-tx SVR's recognize interferon as a likely cause of these problems, your voice can be the opposing view representing those who cannot believe that interferon could do all these things. Maybe you are right. Maybe doctors and treaters that we hear from don't know what they are talking about.
But I seriously doubt it.
DoubleDose
i would think that getting sick more before tx was because of the HCV running rampant in your system. your immune system was so taxed trying to fight the hcv that it was left wide open for other infections. just a thought
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
A very astute observation and explanation.
Indeed, the imprint of Interferon long term provides a basic long lasting intensification of general responsivness. Not always a good thing - because autoimmunity syndromes are also enhanced.
Here is the nutshell explanation: the immune system as a whole is a gigantically complex system of potential reactivity and contains hundreds of feedback cycles aimed at quickly reducing exagerated responses as well. Mathematically this would equate to an overall equation of signaling mechanisms that would define a floating state of multiple balanced responses and subsystems with cytokines and surface bound receptor and agonist molecules and cell numbers being the variables and certain constants and terms defining the current "steady state" towards which the subsystems tends to selfregulate.
THESE CONSTANTS ARE PERMANENTLY CHANGED BY LONG TERM INTERFERON OR ANY LONG TERM EXPOSURE TO IMMUNOGENIC ANTIGENS/stimulation.
Thus the systems now seek a new equilibrium, react e.g. faster/more intense towards early damage signaling from a rhinovirus ( a common cold), thus limits viral spread more efficiently and - bingo you have your milder cold....
Indeed, the imprint of Interferon long term provides a basic long lasting intensification of general responsivness. Not always a good thing - because autoimmunity syndromes are also enhanced.
Here is the nutshell explanation: the immune system as a whole is a gigantically complex system of potential reactivity and contains hundreds of feedback cycles aimed at quickly reducing exagerated responses as well. Mathematically this would equate to an overall equation of signaling mechanisms that would define a floating state of multiple balanced responses and subsystems with cytokines and surface bound receptor and agonist molecules and cell numbers being the variables and certain constants and terms defining the current "steady state" towards which the subsystems tends to selfregulate.
THESE CONSTANTS ARE PERMANENTLY CHANGED BY LONG TERM INTERFERON OR ANY LONG TERM EXPOSURE TO IMMUNOGENIC ANTIGENS/stimulation.
Thus the systems now seek a new equilibrium, react e.g. faster/more intense towards early damage signaling from a rhinovirus ( a common cold), thus limits viral spread more efficiently and - bingo you have your milder cold....
I would prefer my yearly one or two pre-tx "colds" over the post treatment symptons many here report perhaps due to an altered immune system. As to the virus taxing our immune system pre-treatment, I always found my frequency of colds pretty much correlated to my physical condition. If I was exercising on a regular basis, eating well, etc, I would have fewer colds. Conversly, when I smoked, ate badly and didn't exercise, I had more colds.
Speaking of colds, every year or so, John what's his name on 20-20? has his "myth buster" series which usually includes the "myth" that you don't get a cold by being wet and cold, with some Havard study being cited. Yes, I know colds are caused by viruses and not cold water, but I'd certainly like to see John hosed down with cold water in 20 degree weather and stand around for awhile. If he's like me and most everyone I know he will get sick.
For the record, I have gotten one minor "cold" since I stopped treatment and six months of skin problems. Next year I will be happy to have a couple of extra colds and fewer skin problems. Nothing wrong with my immune system before I dated MS Interferon and will be more than happy with a permanent break up.
-- Jim
Speaking of colds, every year or so, John what's his name on 20-20? has his "myth buster" series which usually includes the "myth" that you don't get a cold by being wet and cold, with some Havard study being cited. Yes, I know colds are caused by viruses and not cold water, but I'd certainly like to see John hosed down with cold water in 20 degree weather and stand around for awhile. If he's like me and most everyone I know he will get sick.
For the record, I have gotten one minor "cold" since I stopped treatment and six months of skin problems. Next year I will be happy to have a couple of extra colds and fewer skin problems. Nothing wrong with my immune system before I dated MS Interferon and will be more than happy with a permanent break up.
-- Jim
Our posts crossed but we seem to be in the same ballpark here.
Speaking of an altered immune systems, what is your take on TCM, specifically Chinese herbs and acupuncture, to help get the immune system back in "balance" post interferon treatment?
I do understand from previous posts that you may not want to get too specific, but would love to hear whatever take your're comfortable with.
BTW I emailed a couple of my "top docs" regarding the dental work and one responded so far. TopDoc didn't think it was an issue at all at this late point, however he did say if I was uncomfortable I might wait a while. Reading between the lines, I sensed he was not dismissing the idea of waiting outright. Right now I'm nine months post treament and considering putting off the elective procedure another 3-6 months, but like with most decisions hep C, feel like I'm groping in the dark.
All the best,
-- Jim
Speaking of an altered immune systems, what is your take on TCM, specifically Chinese herbs and acupuncture, to help get the immune system back in "balance" post interferon treatment?
I do understand from previous posts that you may not want to get too specific, but would love to hear whatever take your're comfortable with.
BTW I emailed a couple of my "top docs" regarding the dental work and one responded so far. TopDoc didn't think it was an issue at all at this late point, however he did say if I was uncomfortable I might wait a while. Reading between the lines, I sensed he was not dismissing the idea of waiting outright. Right now I'm nine months post treament and considering putting off the elective procedure another 3-6 months, but like with most decisions hep C, feel like I'm groping in the dark.
All the best,
-- Jim
Wanted to clarify a little my response to you yesterday regarding a prophalactive short-course of Interferon pre dental procdure. It occured to me that my answer to you may have seemed bluntly dismissive and it was. Not because I didn't think it might have some theoretically merit, but because of the significant side effects I experienced during my 54 weeks of treatment.
Like some other here, based on my treatment experience, I would have to be convinced of very plausible and serious health consequences before ever taking interferon again. IMO it is a crude and vicious drug whose benefits have to be very carefully weighed against any potential benefits.
-- Jim
Like some other here, based on my treatment experience, I would have to be convinced of very plausible and serious health consequences before ever taking interferon again. IMO it is a crude and vicious drug whose benefits have to be very carefully weighed against any potential benefits.
-- Jim
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