Is this unusual??

[bahamasnut]

My husbands vl was 10million  after taking some supplements 5weeks later he got a mother blood draw to see what the supplements were doing if anything and his vl was 8.8 million.  Does the viral load fluxuate that much. ????? Please need help

[bahamasnut]

Thanks will

[bahamasnut]

What were the name of the supplements you we're taking ??

[orphanedhawk]

You said that Bill explained how without a link, rumors can easily be spread.
I was told by my renown hepatologist in S.F. to take vitamin D.
( He said no to vitamin E)

Here's a link~ where's yours?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21793032
epatology. 2011 Jul 25.

Vitamin-D: An innate antiviral agent suppressing Hepatitis C virus in human hepatocytes.

Molecular Hepatology Research Laboratory, Felsenstein Medical Research Center, Sackler School of Medicine, Tel-Aviv University.

Abstract

Vitamin-D supplementation was reported to improve the probability of achieving a sustained-virological-response when combined with antiviral treatment against Hepatitis C Virus (HCV). Our aim was to determine the in-vitro potential of vitamin-D to inhibit HCV infectious virus production and explore the mechanism(s) of inhibition. Here we show that vitamin-D(3) remarkably inhibits HCV production in Huh7.5 hepatoma cells. These cells express CYP27B1, the gene encoding for the enzyme responsible for the synthesis of the vitamin-D hormonally active metabolite, calcitriol. Treatment with vitamin-D(3) resulted in calcitriol production and induction of calcitriol target gene CYP24A1, indicating that these cells contain the full machinery for vitamin-D metabolism and activity. Notably, treatment with calcitriol resulted in HCV inhibition. Collectively, these findings suggest that vitamin-D(3) has an anti-viral activity which is mediated by its active metabolite. This anti-viral activity involves the induction of interferon signaling pathway resulting in expression of interferon-β and the interferon-stimulated gene, MxA. Intriguingly, HCV infection increased calcitriol production by inhibiting CYP24A1 induction, the enzyme responsible for the first step in calcitriol catabolism. Importantly, the combination of vitamin-D(3) or calcitriol and interferon-α synergistically inhibited viral production. Conclusion: This study demonstrates for the first time a direct anti-viral effect of vitamin-D in an in-vitro infectious virus production system. It proposes an interplay between the hepatic vitamin-D endocrine system and HCV, suggesting that vitamin-D has a role as natural anti-viral mediator. Importantly, our study implies that vitamin-D might have an interferon sparing effect thus improving antiviral treatment of HCV-infected patients. (HEPATOLOGY 2011.).

Copyright © 2011 American Association for the Study of Liver Diseases.

[Bill1954]

I believe Bahamasnut’s husband is genotype 3; the triple therapy isn’t likely to be an effective option for him. Additionally her husband is stage 2 by liver biopsy several years ago.

--Bill

[jules2551]

            "Vitamin D and vitamin E can be toxic to liver, also."

        ************************************************************************

Where did you find that Vit D was toxic to your liver?

[BoceprevirGal]

It's not a good idea to attempt to "cure" yourself, with vitamins. Better to have get the biopsy, and if he is still at stage 1, he is still fine. If he is stage 2, he may want to be treated. If he is stage 3 or 4, then he should treat soon, as the new triple therapy has a good chance for cure.
   My doctor had me go off all my vitamins and herbal supplements, because my liver enzymes were so high. Vitamin D and vitamin E can be toxic to liver, also. The gelatin capsules that the supplements came in, also made me sick. Water solubale vitamins, in a liquid form, with a dropper, at a half dose, is the safest thing, if vitamins are to be taken. Getting vitamins from food is the best source.
   It's not the Hepatitis C that hurts the liver, it;s our body fighting off the Hep C, that scars the liver. So, a high viral load has really no significance. Mine jumped around. When I was pregnant the fourth time it was 6,000,000, but a couple yrs later, it was 60,000. Then a few yrs later, it went to 200,000, then, this year, 700,000. But my elevated enzymes and low plateletes were more of a sign that my liver had scarring~
  

[orphanedhawk]

I still have never heard of a mother blood draw.

[rivll]

Lol! Hare's ear and Semen Cassius
Thanks for the belly laugh

[Bali05]

no , it is not unusual

[rivll]

BTW, in total agreement w/ posters about the fluctuating VL. Mine also went down on the supps. and my liver enzymes improved too, however it is NOT a cure.

[rivll]

I was on probably the same supplements. Yes, they really do help, but of course they don't kill the virus. I took them while waiting to restart the study and after a few weeks felt much better.
For newbies-does not really mean anything that I felt better in regard to real TX Don't. don't, don't think supplements can stop the virus. What they can do if they are the proper ones is help support a liver in healing after TX or just support the liver before TX. Don't take them during TX as they may interfere with the antivirals.
Stefano from Italy is on the Hep B forum and he has also had success  after he finished TX
He like myself was cirrhotic. .

[flcyclist]

My mistake.  A mother blood draw .
---------------------------------------------------------
Is there when vampira takes multiple samples of 5 or 6 tubes and you feel light headed afterward??? ;-)

[willbb]

Thank you the supplements are very expensive and no his doctor doesn't know
----------------------------------------
Hi bahamasnut...been awhile since we have seen you ..hope all is well

Please be very careful with any supplements that your hubby is taking. Not only can they be expensive many of them (especially the Herbal variety can be injurious to the liver to tag on to Bills. advice above.

At the Hep clinic and teaching hospital I attend there is a big sign on the wall when you walk in that reads: ( as copied below  if you are intersested in having a look or anyone else.)


HERBAL REMEDIES  that can be TOXIC to the LIVER
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Artemisia                                      Ma Huang
Atractylis                                       Margosa
Black Cohosh                              Misletoe
Cameellia sinensis                      Noni (Moinda citrifolia)
camphor                                       Oil of cloves
cascara sagrada                           Onshido
Chaparral Leaf                              Paeonia
Chaso                                            Pennyroyal
Chrysanthemum                            Plantango
Comfrey                                         Pulegium
Compositae                                   Radix Polygoni Multiflori
Crotalaria                                       Radix Tripterygii
Dai-saiko-to                                    Red Pony root
Fructus Toosendan                        Rhizoma Dioscoreae Bulbiferae
Frutus Xanthii                                 Sassafras
Gardenia                                         Saw Palmetto
Germander                                     Scolopendra
Greater Celandine
Hares'ear   (my comment   who the hell would eat a hare's ear?? )
Heliotropium                                      
Herba Polygalae                             Semen Cassiae (my comment..????? )
Hydroxycut                                      Senecio
Impila                                               Senna
Isabgol                                             Sho-saiko-to
Jin bu huang                                    Shou-wu-pian                                  
KavaKava                                        Skullcap
Liv.52                                               Valerian Root

If anyone doesn not agree with  what is listed here,please don't shoot the messanger.or ask me what may of these are  :)

Will

                                  

[nygirl7]

I have the same problem with my Ipad once it put the word Afghanistan in a sentence and I was like what..........??????????????

[bahamasnut]

His vl was 19 million. Then went to 8.8 million the last test

[bahamasnut]

I'm on a iPad to I make mistakes all the time

[bahamasnut]

My mistake.  A mother blood draw

[nygirl7]

LOL > Hawk...you've seen my texting and typing on the Ipad...to me it reads perfectly sensibly!  :)

[ninjamonkey]

Until i started treatment I took milk thistsle and though it didn't clear the virus amid did make me feel better and my ast and alt numbers finally we.t back to the normal range and when i stop taking them they jumped right back up so i think as long as Dr approves ymhe should continue and you should keep an eye on all his other test, if he feels better on them that's good for him, or o thought it was for me. Just my opinion.
Cas

[orphanedhawk]

I want to know what a mother draw is.

[bahamasnut]

Thank you the supplements are very expensive and no his doctor doesn't know.He is getting ready to start tx for the second time in about a month.First go around he was und from week 2-23. Of 24 wks. Geno 3 the doctor said he had a breakthrough. I hope it will be different this time......

[Bill1954]

It’s probably best to step back for a second and look at how large some of the numbers involved are. HCV, unhindered, is thought to replicate at an astonishing rate; roughly 1,000,000,000,000 (1 trillion, or 10^12) copies per patient day:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepatitis_C_virus#Replication

Obviously our immune response checks that figure, typically leaving patients with much lower viral loads such as your husband’s results, measured in the millions.

Given these very large numbers frequent changes are understandable. I believe most knowledgeable physicians don’t feel changes in viral load are significant unless they exceed a 1 log-10 change.

A significant change for your husband’s viral load might be from say, 8,800,000 (eight million eight hundred thousand) to 880,000 (eight hundred eighty thousand); this represents a 1 log-10 reduction. While this might have some significance, there’s still no evidence that that rate of decline will continue, unfortunately.

With all this said, hopefully hubby’s doctor is on board with his herbal/supplemental regimen and has offered his approval.  

Good luck-

--Bill

[nygirl7]

Watch his liver enzymes while taking supplements, especially if they are Chinese herbs or anything like that. VL doesn't matter it's basically the same number as hrsepwrguy already explainned.

[Sentinel13]

I agree with hrsepwrguy. Viral load is described by a logarithmic function, which means it's linear when plotted on log paper. Technical way of agreeing that there is not much difference in the two figures you provided. Cheers, GB