Joint

[sugarray]

My friend who was on treatment for 50 weeks said the only way she made it thru was by smoking a joint.  She had never smoked before but this gave her relief.  So who knows????????????

[cougareyes]

That is the main point, if you can stay the course of tx. I considered it when I was close to pulling the plug. I was in so much pain and nausea.
The study I read concerning smoking pot and it progressing fibrosis was so screwed I wouldn't trust any of results. From the choice of test subjects to the way the progression was monitored. Never seen anything that compares pot smoking with svr. Can't be more dangerous than procrit, neupogen, pain meds, anti-depress, etc., etc. to keep us on tx.  Peace

[cougareyes]

The study I read took subjects of questionable lifestyles. People who also used other recreational drugs and even drank alcohol. The biopsies showed no differences in fibrosis that would not be found in the differences of taking two different samples from different parts of the liver. The differences in fibrosis also wasn't any different from the difference in opinions from different pathologist reading the same samples. These are just the two main points that make me think this study has not much weight.
All the drugs we take during tx has some potential sx and risk. Whether it be to the liver, the heart, the kidneys, on and on. Many doctors recommend tylenol, tylenol is notorious for aiding liver problems. Of course that's when it's being abused. I hardly doubt that occasional mj used over the course of tx would in any way compromise one's liver function. Just one man's opinion.  Peace   Oh and by the way I don't smoke marijuana.

[new-sojourn]

Living in a 'hip' or is that 'hippy' college town in a state that is 5th in the nation for outdoor growing, many people use marijuana.

Being a highly rated University, there are always people passing thru.  Of the people I've known or 'heard about', the majority have achieved svr, no matter the stage or genotype. and the majority of those smoked marijuana.  Very few of us even took the AD's Rx'd or even filled the Rx.

I would believe the report if they had used a couple doz educated health freaks living in the mts in humble b/decent circumstances.  Not a bunch of Paris junkies.  I know some Paris junkies, they hang outside the jazz clubs my partner plays @!

There is absolutely no comparison between lifestyles.  none.

As we have seen in the aftermath of the hurricanes, etc., people w/ a more wholesome lifestyle fare better under all circumstances.

It's never the bits b/all the bits and pieces that tell the whole story.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

[cuteus]

I think the "gateway" theory is loosing followers. A person chooses the "medication" that suits them best. For some is MJ and nothing else, for others heroin but not coke, etc. Those that have not found their "call" will try the list, but I don't think one leads to the other. What if I try heroin but find MJ to my liking more? Is heroin then the gateway to MJ?

[PasoPerson]

As a former alcoholic and drug addict, I have to tell you that for ME just drinking booze led to my smoking pot.  And from there it WAS the gateway to everything else.  Except if it involved needles or downers, 'cause I HATED needles & hated downers, still do ... ironic isn't it?!  :)

Pot led to speed, cocaine, meth, LSD and lots of other stuff.  Of course, back then cocaine was not "addictive".  LOL, oh to know then what I know now.

I think each person has to determine this for themselves.  For me, a basic addictive personality, I did not have a "favorite" drug.  I loved drugs, period.  I liked being high.  If it made me high, I would take it.  

And although I've been straight since 1979, I would no more smoke pot again now than the man in the moon.  Would I become addicted again?  God only knows.  Am I stew-pit enough to try it and find out?  Nope.  Not anymore.

[DebbieDo]

Hey there fellow pot smoker
I have always smoked pot. I quit for a yr following the discovery of having HepC.  I would say about 12 wks into TX after having my 12 wk and being clear at that point. Well, with all the stress from work and just daily life I thought things would be much better with some pot.  I approached my GI and told him that I didnt want any drugs, like sleeping pills or AD's, and that i thought smoking some pot in the evening would help cut the edge off things.  He said if that works for you, and he said it wouldnt hurt TX....or the ending results
SO, I did and what a relief....I'm 1b and cleared at 6 mo post TX and im waiting to have my yr done the end of this yr...
I feel great and i believe that smoking pot did make TX more tolerable. So, do what you have to do......
AND, i never was an IV user or heavy into drugs or alcohol, ever...I just smoked ..........and i read alot of articles relating to smoking pot, tx and the liver before i approached my doc........Best Wishes..........and HELLO EVERYONE
              Deb

[NYgirl]

Sorry for jumping on but I have an important question (to me) and the darn medical office isn't picking up.

Do I have to inject myself with this procrit? I've never done a REAL injection just the ready pen?

I guess maybe I should call the pharmacy but the site says a nurse or doctor needs to do it. I'm all confused!

[cuteus]

I did it myself. It was no different than my Pegasys

[Wasabi Pea]

Never tried pot until after I had my first treatment discontinued due to sx (about six months ago).  Still was too scared to drink alcohol.  Will probably neer drink alcohol again.  Was never big into it to begin with.  Never tried any drugs my entire life.  Wasn't in any of the risk groups.  No tats, no piercings (beyond ears), no sharing of razors, et cetera.  

So I thought, "What the hell?"  I never participated in any risky behaviors that would have led to me becoming infected.  I'll never drink again.  I'm here with my husband.  I'm a grown woman.  I'm depressed over getting cut off from tx with no indication of being able to try again.  I would like to have fun.

It was okay.  Definitely mellowed me out.  Smoked a few times here and there.  Kind of fun.  Not a big deal.  Probably too motivated to get stuff done to make it a habit.  Once I got a second opinion and knew I would be able to restart tx, I decided not to smoke it again until after tx.

I've been on tx now since February of this year.  I have had a constant struggle with my extremely conservative health care providers (doctor and nurse practitioner).  I've constantly had to fight to stay on the meds, while trying to manage the sx...most dramatic, the drop in hgb.  I'm at 9.3 at last count, which is pretty good.  I had dropped as low as 7.6.  They've increased my riba from 200 mg a day to 400 mg, two whole pills...but if my hgb is affected, they'll drop it again.  Not sure how this will affect my previously undetectable level.

I think the worst sx I've suffered is the tremendous anger and rage that hits me here and there.  Granted, I commute four hours a day total.  Granted, my husband and I have the rigors and stresses of running a restaurant/bar.  Granted, the meds are known to make people suffer from "riba rage."

But I have to say, one of the most debilitating feelings I suffer from is dealing with my health care practitioners.  The feeling that nobody's listening to me, any research I've come up with is dismissed, that I shouldn't even have been treated to begin with because of my biopsy results, yada, yada, yada....combined with a second opinion from an outside doctor who tells me, "If you don't get rid of this virus, you're looking at liver cancer down the road because of your genetic thalassemia."  Then having my HMO tell me, nah, thalassemia's nothing.  You'll be fine.

I have dropped a significant amount of weight from this tx, just like I did the first time.  At least four or five times a day I'm overcome with the urge to puke for no reason.  My appetite's hit the toilet, and nothing sounds like it'll taste good.  

I'm a court reporter, and this past week a juror brought in M&Ms.  Cool.  Snagged one and tossed it in my purse.  Why not?  My NP tells me to carry crackers in my purse.  I smile brightly and say, "Oh, I've got M&Ms."  I'm not a big candy eater by any means.  I was just momentarily proud I had a source of glucose handy.  What I got was a HUGE lecture about how I can't eat that kind of stuff, I've got fatty liver (which was confirmed when I was 30 pounds heavier), la, la, la.

If I sound bitter, maybe it's because I am.  I will most likely switch insurances this month and go with the doctors that actually believe that my case isn't to be treated in a cookie-cutter fashion.  

But because of the riba and because of having to butt my head against the wall when it comes to my healthcare, I threw caution to the wind this past month.  I'm sick of being angry and tired and lacking in appetite and unhappy.  I refuse to be put on any sort of anti-depressant.  I realize it works for many.  It's not for me.  I don't want it.

So this past month, I've both ingested and smoked pot, usually once a week or every two weeks.  The feeling of "Hey, everything will eventually work out," seems to last me a good, long time.  My nausea goes away.  My anxiety relaxes.  Aches and pains disappear.  I'm able to sleep.  My marriage looks like it may just survive the duration of this tx.  Before I wasn't sure.

My husband threw his arm out throwing a football and was groaning in bed.  He hates marijuana himself, but he decided to try a bit of marijuana brownie...and was astonished at how it not only made his arm pain go away, but it improved his chronic back complaints over the next day or so.

I understand the stigma of marijuana use.  Hell, after being shamed for M&Ms, there's no chance in hell I'd feel open enough to share my occasional pot use with my nurse.  And I admit I have spent most of my life turning my nose up at the stuff, assuming that everyone who does it is a greasy-haired loser who says "dude" in response to everything.

As I get older, I'm starting to feel more open-minded about things and starting to scrutinize any sort of propaganda.  I regret some of the pro-cannabis literature out there because it often comes off as a bunch of party-ers trying to get their high on.  I also regret that there's not a greater number of legitimate, non-biased studies conducted regarding the use of this herb...because although I believe cannibis has a many, many benefits, there could also be hidden risks.  I'd like to see more research in this regard.

Let me just say, though, that for some people, it is clear it is a gateway drug.  I know people who claim to have tried crack and never figured out what the big deal is about it.  There are others that try it once and ruin their lives.  I think the same goes for any type of substance, whether that be alcohol, pot, heroin, et cetera.  Some people will abuse it, and others won't.  

And working in the restaurant business, I can tell you that there are so many folks out there who are never NOT high.  So although I'd love to see it legalized, but I realize that legalizing it will cause a whole host of problems by the people who abuse it and misuse it.

Anyway, this is an issue that many people feel strongly about one way or the other.  I didn't expect to write such a long post...nor did I expect to feel so upset.  I guess I'm tired of being on tx.  I want to have a normal life again.

It's my own opinion that the biggest risk of pot is smoking it because of the resulting fumes and toxins.  Eating it makes it harder to figure out a reasonable amount, but it's better.  

Other than that, right now, I do the best I can.  I go to work every day, 6-7 days a week, and I try to be a good person.  If this helps me not yell at someone, not puke, and not feel completely hopeless, then it can't be all that bad.

And in a way, it makes me so sad that I have to resort to a substance, any substance, whether it be legal or illegal, in order to feel half-normal.  I thought I was stronger than this.

[Wasabi Pea]

Sorry my rant was so long.  I didn't realize how long I rambled.  Thank you to anyone who read that for "listening."  :)

And NYGirl, yes, procrit's injected.  It's not so bad.  Just ask your doctor to write an rx for small needles.  I can't remember the size I have.  I'll have to try to remember and post you later.  But if you can get diabetic-sized needles, even better.  You hardly feel them.

[GoofyDad]

I remember you had anxiety about the redi pen. If you can, I'd try to have a nurse help with the first one. If you can't, we can give detailed instructions. Like everything else, its the anticipation that gets you. It's really no big shake.

[dammitjanet]

Very well said.  Whatever gets you thru the night.  Best of luck with your tx.  DJ

[Wasabi Pea]

Thanks, Janet.  I really appreciate your well wishes.  Now must go blow my nose and get back to work. <sniff> <g>

[friole]

That was very well said.  I forget about that option, and , at this point, don't even know where I would "score."  But I do have anxiety and stress and can envision that pot might work - better than pharmaceuticals (which I have not had to use yet).  THanks for your point of view. And I agree about the part that dealing with this medical system is one of the worst and most anxiety ridden parts of tx.

[jmjm530]

Easy to inject yourself, but like Goof said, let someone show you the first time. The insulin syringes are a good idea but if you end up with a  1ML syringe, just be very careful not to pull the plunger out too far or some of them will definitely pop out. Don't ask how I know. :)

A few tips on injection prep.

Keep everything sterile -- wash hands, etc. Take out of fridge. Let sit till warm or about 30 minutes. Don't shake. Pop orange cap and wipe rubber barrier with alcohol wipe. Unpack and/or assemble syringe. Pull plunger back about half way. Hold Procrit vial upright (syringe needle pointing down) and inject the empty plunger into the AIR above the Procrit, not into the fluid itself. This "pressurizes" the vial so the Procrit will draw easier.

Next, INVERT vial (now upside down with needle pointing up) and push needle through rubber and into liquid. SLOWLY draw back syringe barrel just a little. Stop and tap a few times to get air bubbles out and continue drawing back.

At some point you may notice a lot of air in the syringe. The trick to getting rid of it is to re-inject enough Procrit back into the vial to get rid of the air. Do this SLOWLY so as not to create bubbles. Keep repeating this procedure until all the Procrit is out of vial. Sort of like doing it over but it's OK.

Keep an eye on fluid level as you get near the bottom and slide needle downward so it  stays in fluid as the level drop in vial. Otherwise you will end up drawing air into the syringe again.

Don't worry if you have a little foam left at the end. That's pretty normal and it doesn't represent very much drug.

Inject Sub-Q according to your nurse's instructions. Some people "draw back" a little before injecting to make sure they haven't hit a vein. A lot of people don't. If you have a 1ml syringe, pulling back can be very tricky.

It's really very easy in spite of the long-winded instructions. :) However, if you run into a snag they might be helpful in trouble shooting the reasons why. And speaking of Procrit, now I'm going to do my own shot.

-- Jim

[jmjm530]

When I said "Pull plunger back about half way" I was referencing a 1ML syringe, in other words pull back about 1/2 ML. Keep this in mind if you have bigger syringe (2ML for example) where you would only pull back a quarter of the way. BTW the Procrit instructions tell you to pull back an amount equal to the volume of the Procrit which is actually 1ML but I personally finds this over-pressurizes the vial. Boy something simple really sounds complicated but once you actually do it, it's a breeze. :)

-- Jim

[LvdByGod]

okay here's one for ya..."mescaline" was my gateway drug!!! when offered pot i just freaked out and asked myself should i do this? i decided yes i will....so mescaline in 1973 and then on to the evil pot in 1975! but after that anything went...and shooting up cocain started in 1979! then dropping out of college in '82...and loosing my dream plan of being a commercial artist! man that so sucks!!!  then onto suicidal thoughts in '83...


***thank"God"literally that it ended in 1984 with HIS help!**

life on drugs = completely screwed up!

life off drugs = sanity returns but slowly!

finding i have hep c around 2002, consequences of risky living...

[annainitaly]

hi rev,

how are you these days?
I don't recognize myself in your portrait of the pot smoker. I DID smoke, a couple of decades ago, in fun and easyness. never thought of trying anything else, nor became an alcoholic, or any of the like. I gave up because at a certain point it used to cause me anxiety, and sometimes it caused my blood pressure fall - I had to lie down to avoid fainting. for these reasons, sure I don't miss it. what I miss is the social context: friends, laughter... grass just used to be an excuse for having a good time together. now the times have changed, smoking wouldn't recall that climate any more. you want to know my weak point, my powerful temptation, my most likely addiction? condensed, sugared milk. honest.
"vale", scott.
a dear hello and a wish of complete, easy recovery to all
a.

[Healed24]

Hey, Jim's instructions were right on. One thing is to remember when you put the needle in the vial to draw out the drug, remember to keep the needle under the liquid. It's a small tip but the first time I did the Procrit I kept the needle about the liquid and I didn't know why I wasn't getting any of the meds (all I was getting was air). It was a disaster, but once you get it down, your set. Also Procrit stings like crazy so when you inject the meds make sure you do it really really slowly (I can't stress the slow part). I also try and pinch the area of skin (I use my stomach so that I don't have to pull it back and make sure that I haven't hit a vein) that I am going to inject in, so that it doesn't hurt, but to honest once you've done it, its no big deal. You can definately do it yourself, but it might be more comforting to have someone do it for you the first time. Hope that helps. Good luck with the shot, and be sure to let me know how it goes. I'll be praying for you.

Brooke
GOD BLESS

[MerrieJane]

I'm new.  15 out of 18 on the Knodell score.  Week 6 of tx.
What a lively discussion re: marijuana.  I would be so interested in the results of studies that are guaranteed unflawed.  There is so much unwarranted hysteria about pot.  My thoughts are that alcohol is the "gateway" drug...if there is such a thing. I have never done anything I regretted the next day after using pot.(Can't say the same about alcohol.)  Also, pot doesn't make you loose your inhibitions. It is not a substance that makes you wild and crazy.  Ever seen the movie "Reefer Madness?" In many ways, pot is a scapegoat.  

I know this...it helps majorly with the appetite/nausea/good night's sleep.

MerrieJane

[MerrieJane]

I'm not so sure that pot can be classified in with drugs like mescaline and cocaine. Lots of people only smoke pot.  It isn't all drugs or no drugs.  Caffeine can blow me away as much as pot.  Close down the Starbucks!!

If the goverment said coffee was illegal, would you still drink it?

[LvdByGod]

WOW,DUDE... I REALLY LOVED YOUR STORY MAN...THANKS FOR SHARING THAT...IT WAS FAROUT MAN!!! SOOO COOL. WOW MAN!!! OH WOW... I ALREADY SAID THAT!!!  BYE WASABI PEA DUDE!!!

;0) GOTTA GO WASH MY HAIR! YOU???

HEEHEEHEE!

ALL IN FUN WUV, SANDI

[LvdByGod]

no, i wouldn't drink coffee if it was illegal. i really try to obey the laws...and no i don't agree with all the laws either...

now those who know me, know i would'nt find a problem for sick folks taking medical pot if it was legal and dr suggested and monitored...as long as it was a prescription with warning lables, testing and etc...from dea, just like vicodin and the others...i feel it would be safer to have it monitored so it does'nt get into the wrong hands as easily...

it can "in my opinion" really mess up folks lives if abused or used improperly...and "in my opinion" and what i witnessed in all my friends back then, it did lead to other drug use...for many!!! me included...

funny you mention caffine...actually i did take "no doz or vivrin" at school before the mescaline event, given to me by my girlfriend...so i guess it was the caffine that was the gateway drug! never take 6 no doz!!! bad idea...if ya do carry a bucket to school!!!

but ya know i was just giving my own personal story up there so.... it is just my own personal story and feelings...i though thats what we were all doing...no? by the way no one loved drugs more than i did...i lived for them and would do anything for them...i would try any drug...and it lead to real problems and suicidal thoughts because i messed up my life so much from it...  

THANK GOD, i gave my whole life over to God and became a Christian. i gave it all up...my life completely changed for the better.  there is no comparison to life with drugs and a life without drugs...for me!!!

and no i don't distingish a difference between pot and other naturally grown medicines perhaps even put here by God for these medical reasons...like the opium poppy, codine, morephine, heroin, mescaline, mushrooms, pyote, ergot (lsd), cocaine, and even alcohol...it all messes with your brain and has serious implications if taken wrongly or abused...

but if used correctly can be a medical miracle...can you imagin surgury without moraphine??? so these plants should be dr monitored and used only when needed medically...legally! it's always been ok to use plant matter for medicines...but if not regulated folks can become adicted cause they take too much if left to there own devices...we see this with alcohol poisoning...

i suppose there is some very disciplined and careful persons  out there who would not let this abuse or non medical use happen...

can you even believe that in my grandma's time that lsd, moriphine, codine, herioin, and opium was'nt monitored but freely bought...it messed up a whole bunch of folks...folks didn't know it was adictive, dangerous, and dangerously mind altering. people were hooked and it was sad...thats why they developed the dea...opium smoking single handedly almost ruined china...

so there is "my" opinion alone...thats all it is... you are certainly just as intitled to your own opinion and i certainly would never judge you for that opinion...that's what makes the world so great!!! even if we disagree on an opinion...i still luvs ya marijane...and you're just one sweet girl!!!

your friend,
sandi

[new-sojourn]

I agree that alcohol is the main gateway drug.  It's harder on the body, mind and soul than pot.

I sure enjoy the Amsterdam way of dealing w/pot.  Just nice little shops, shops that cater to all types.  Biker shops, gay shops, regge shops, yuppie shops.  Shops situated right in the middle of the University of Amsterdam where students and prof would meet and study.

What I don't like is the smell of all those quait streets from all the drunks peeing where ever they want to.  You don't see the pot smokers peeing all over the city!  Barfing all over the city...fighting and whoring and yelling late @ nite.  B/you see the beer drinkers doing all that all the time day and night.

Unless you have been in a place where both drugs are tolerated, you really can't see the damage done by alcohol and the contrast to the peaceful, quiet pot smokers!

B/marijuana is a very helpful tool for some of us and hep c is a qualifier in most states.  And then you can grow your own and be in your own little Amsterdam.