Research supported antifibrotics - do they exist?

[Hepatitis Researcher]

The problems of treatment failure for SOC/IFN nonresponders and the possibility of reducing future supercombo-SVRchances by introducing archived resistance mutations when using "Pseudomonotherapy" - (that is here defined as using  a single  antiviral agent that is not protected against resistance development by its combo with an IFN/riba component (IFN by definition in this scenario is not sufficiently effective in reducing viral replication so that all the burden to tame the adaptive quasispecies evolution falls on the antiviral)) together with the 61% and 65% SVR rates for the latest triple modality in Geno 1s, have raised concern and the awareness for the need for alternate/additional treatment modalities in many HCV patients and their health care providers. Waiting for future antiviral developments is one route frequently recommended, but for the patients  in current need, our repertoire of additional meaningful approaches needs to be carefully reevaluated. Using antifibrotics to halt fibrosis progression is one concept not proven in large trials but it might well be effective in many, because the mechanisms for fibrosis generation are not intrinsically linked to HCV persistence, but rather to secondary response mechanisms evoked in the chronically inflamed liver, with the stellate cell activation holding center stage in this scenario. The following is one of several possible add on modalities.

[mremeet]

I think the metabolic stress HR refers to is partially associated with obesity, overeating, smoking, drinking etc, lack of exercise and consumption of sugar or things that result in elevated blood sugar. The usual suspects. I seem to remember him discussing that, but obviously he should be the one to clarify.

The search function on this site leaves a lot to be desired. But I found a few links where HR discussed antifibrotics, although in my cloudy tx addled memory banks I think he posted a "seminal work" on the matter that I couldn't find. If anyone else has it please post it. This is fabulous info, we should be grateful to have access to it...I mean where else are we gonna get this stuff?? HR you rock man, HUGELY DUDE! Thanks again...

http://www.medhelp.org/forums/hepatitis/messages/44507.html

http://www.medhelp.org/forums/hepatitis/messages/44136.html

http://www.medhelp.org/forums/hepatitis/messages/44654.html

[scratchinghead]

So I google that long name:
"Polyunsaturated phosphatidylcholine" and got a ton of good links.
Only clicked on this one, and it is chock full of stuff. I guess that big word can be reduced to the word "choline":
http://www.woodmed.com/Phos%20Choline.htm

I remember years ago, when most of you were no taller than your mommie's knee :-() Dirk Pearson talked about the only way to take choline was in liquid form because it deteriorated in air when in powder form. He application was for brain fuel and weight reduction but here is the stuff on the Life Extension Foundation website. (it used to be only Twin Labs had it, now they don't). It's really cheap.
http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00541.html

Now, maybe I'm making big illogical jumps here, instead of big logical jumps. I could be way off and so tell me if I'm wrong:
PPC is choline is best taken as a liquid.

[scratchinghead]

and. . . for those whose computers are broken, here is a couple extracts from thiis link:
http://www.woodmed.com/Phos%20Choline.htm

Forms
• Choline is available as a soluble salt, most commonly as either choline bitartrate, citrate, or chloride, or as phosphatidylcholine in lecithin.

• Most commercial forms of lecithin contains only 10-20% phosphatidylcholine.

• Most supplements labeled as "phosphatidylcholine" contain only 35 percent.

• Some newer and more potent preparations contains up to 98 percent phosphatidylcholine. These more pure forms of phosphatidylcholine are preferred since they are associated with fewer gastrointestinal side effects. This is particularly true in the treatment of those conditions that require large doses of phosphatidylcholine (i.e., 15 to 30 grams) because low-concentration forms such as lecithin would be required in such large amounts that side effects would be nearly inevitable.

Intravenous form is also available. The liver is the largest organ of the body and receives the first flush of PC from an infusion. However an exchange of lipids is systemic with every organ, every neuron, every cell sharing the increased PC and the higher performing lipids (HUFAs). It should be expected that improved metabolic performance would also be systemic.

and last but not least:
Appendix: Food Sources of Choline

Choline and Choline Phospholipid Content of Selected Foods, in Milligrams per Serving Free



Food                            Serving                         Choline             Lecithin            Total Choline

Apple                           1 medium                     0.39                 29.87               4.62

Banana                         medium                        2.85                 3.26                 3.52

Beef liver                      3.5 oz                           60.64               3362.55           532.28

Beef steak                    3.5 oz.                          0.78                 466.12             68.75

Butter                          1 tsp.                            0.02                 6.80                 1.18

Cauliflower                   1/2 cup                         6.79                 107.06             22.15

Corn oil                        1 tbsp.                          0.004               0.13                 0.03

Coffee                          6 oz.                             18.59               2.05                 19.29

Cucumber                    1/2 cup                         1.18                 3.06                 1.74

Egg                              1 large                          0.22                 2009.80           282.32

Ginger ale                     12 oz.                           0.07                 1.11                 0.34

Grape juice                   6 oz.                             8.99                 2.11                 9.37

Human milk                  1 cup                            2.10                 27.08               10.29

Iceberg lettuce 1 oz.     8.53                             2.86                 9.06

Infant formula   1 oz.     0.818                           2.97                 1.38

Lecithin supplement      1 tbsp., 7.5 g.               NA                  1725                250

(commercial, powdered)

Milk whole                   1 cup                            3.81                 27.91               9.64

Orange                         1oz.                              13.24               107.35             27.91

Potato                          1                                  5.95                 25.97               9.75

Tomato                        1v                                5.50                 4.94                 6.58

Whole wheat bread      1 slice                           2.52                 6.57                 3.43

                        

(USDA: Composition of Foods. USDA handbook # 8. Washington DC, ARS, USDA, 1976-1986)

[Hepatitis Researcher]

No. its NOT just choline, very far from that. It is a polyunsaturated fatty acid attached to phosphatidyl-choline. I do not like to mention any brand names here, but this is too important to let it go into nowhere. Check the brand name hepatopro. This is exactly that PPC compound mentioned in the article above.

[scratchinghead]

whoa! I just looked at the food sources of choline and coffee (that's C-O-F-F-E-E) has more choline than anything but beef liver (bleah).

Starbucks, here I come!

[scratchinghead]

aha, thank you for setting me straight.
would it be safe to say that the choline in food would also have this fatty acid even though not an exact science?

Heading off to google "hepatopro"

thanks again