Aa
SOCIALIZED MEDICINE, will it help or hurt research
weigh in if you want to!! I think we'd set the clock back 50 years, but that's just me.
good points all. I've seen some footage on clinics in Russia, Cuba recently (not the one Castro wants you to see) and even England, more flawed than you can imagine. We have a gravy train by comparison. Yes HMO's are flawed. So are doctors, so are patients. the idea of managed care is a debatable one because A. the management tries to weed out over eager docs and patients, and B. without them you have mass abuses by both groups and PARTICULARLY blatant in the medicare areana where it's government supposedly supervising who get's what test. If medicare has found trillions in abuses, how does that speak to THEIR management skills or the idea that things will get better if they take over the whole system???
Besides which....I have family on medicare...and the old adage, oh but your on medicare, so that's not available is something I've heard for 20 years while caring for a now 85 year old.
the idea to cut back on basics....like giving her an MRI, or my HMO refusing to give me one after going through a windshield?????? Neither of these groups are GOOD at management.
the real truth is sometime you use the word "legal" because it's the only way to awaken the slumbering bored and too infrequently held accountable professionals (loosely pros).
the real truth is the system is only as good as the people in it. Our morals have taken a nose dive. Now it shows up in more corruption in every arena. No moral backbone, no excellence in service.
and yes, I object too to the excess corruption, only excess to us seems new, why; because a million isn't what it once was. read up on the corruption in NY or chicagos governments and companies 70 years ago, you'll see there's nothing new under the sun.
I want the fake loan guys in JAIL, not white collar jail either, and hopefully they will be, more have gone lately than ever before. still a drop.
If congress wasn't so busy trying to malign everyone GB appointed, and maybe got back to their JOB, making laws, maybe 5 times more would be going.
you have to ask though, what kind of idiot takes out an interest only loan, or doesn't understand a deal to good to be true or even the concept of prime, or variable rates, or even basic economics. At some point, all good will and charity aside, I'd have to say,
look, I'm sorry you bought snake oil, I'm sorry you all had to have a house that was twice as big as what your means could really afford. I still think, it's not our place to bail them out. Let them take what equity or lumps they must, and for God sakes do not deregulate the banks like they now suggest. Greed is inherent in human beings. Brokers. lawyers you name it....suddenly we think bankers will be an exception? right!!
what I don't get, and this is me being stupid maybe, but they can hold and trace and freeze whole countries assets and have. Why is the Enron B. sitting on billions? I mean, wouldn't it make more sense to say, you get caught, you go to jail AND we hunt down your wife and children's trust funds??
If an enron employee has zip in retirement, and some brats somewhere are sucking on their life's work...and can't be touched because Ken was good at spreading the wealth around, how is that fair?
there would be a lot less corruption if men knew that they couldn't hide it anywhere, and that their family as well would be ruined.
nut back to the new loan debaucle, if my kids spends to much on a car, he'll learn when he tries to trade up and can't cause he to high into it....if he forgets to put oil in it, it blows up. Do I buy him a new one, or let him buy a junker and learn a lesson? I let him buy the junker!! It's buyer beware!!!
Unfortunately, many parent abducated their responsibility to teach their kids basic economic, leaving it to an ever degrading public education system. We are now seeing the effects of this.
How many kids know today that 6 percent doubles their homes cost or more even?
socializing house payments is maybe what we ought to call it. Hey, I live in a 50's ranch, but I don't mind paying for your 3 story granite lined gullibility?? Actually I used to be a socialist. Now I see it as communism just bumped over one land group or two. We won't call it that, but there's darn little difference.
I like the guy who said it cost's me an extra 3.50 per hour per employee now. Try triple that if we socialize and bail out for another ten years. there's only so long we can borrow as a nation before reaching insolvency. there's only so much benefit you can pay per employee before you can't feed your own...small business is the biggest piece of our county pie, they get it, No one else seems to understand that today.
Servicing the debt, debt Loads, PE ratios, remember that stuff...well don't explain it to me, write your congressman and explain it to him, I'm expecting we'll try repackaging the same old tired promises and deliver no belt tightening in this decade either, regardless of who's elected. it's not in most nature's anymore to connect the dots!!
Unfortunate because I'm expecting a melt down of this bloated ice cube before any other.
Besides which....I have family on medicare...and the old adage, oh but your on medicare, so that's not available is something I've heard for 20 years while caring for a now 85 year old.
the idea to cut back on basics....like giving her an MRI, or my HMO refusing to give me one after going through a windshield?????? Neither of these groups are GOOD at management.
the real truth is sometime you use the word "legal" because it's the only way to awaken the slumbering bored and too infrequently held accountable professionals (loosely pros).
the real truth is the system is only as good as the people in it. Our morals have taken a nose dive. Now it shows up in more corruption in every arena. No moral backbone, no excellence in service.
and yes, I object too to the excess corruption, only excess to us seems new, why; because a million isn't what it once was. read up on the corruption in NY or chicagos governments and companies 70 years ago, you'll see there's nothing new under the sun.
I want the fake loan guys in JAIL, not white collar jail either, and hopefully they will be, more have gone lately than ever before. still a drop.
If congress wasn't so busy trying to malign everyone GB appointed, and maybe got back to their JOB, making laws, maybe 5 times more would be going.
you have to ask though, what kind of idiot takes out an interest only loan, or doesn't understand a deal to good to be true or even the concept of prime, or variable rates, or even basic economics. At some point, all good will and charity aside, I'd have to say,
look, I'm sorry you bought snake oil, I'm sorry you all had to have a house that was twice as big as what your means could really afford. I still think, it's not our place to bail them out. Let them take what equity or lumps they must, and for God sakes do not deregulate the banks like they now suggest. Greed is inherent in human beings. Brokers. lawyers you name it....suddenly we think bankers will be an exception? right!!
what I don't get, and this is me being stupid maybe, but they can hold and trace and freeze whole countries assets and have. Why is the Enron B. sitting on billions? I mean, wouldn't it make more sense to say, you get caught, you go to jail AND we hunt down your wife and children's trust funds??
If an enron employee has zip in retirement, and some brats somewhere are sucking on their life's work...and can't be touched because Ken was good at spreading the wealth around, how is that fair?
there would be a lot less corruption if men knew that they couldn't hide it anywhere, and that their family as well would be ruined.
nut back to the new loan debaucle, if my kids spends to much on a car, he'll learn when he tries to trade up and can't cause he to high into it....if he forgets to put oil in it, it blows up. Do I buy him a new one, or let him buy a junker and learn a lesson? I let him buy the junker!! It's buyer beware!!!
Unfortunately, many parent abducated their responsibility to teach their kids basic economic, leaving it to an ever degrading public education system. We are now seeing the effects of this.
How many kids know today that 6 percent doubles their homes cost or more even?
socializing house payments is maybe what we ought to call it. Hey, I live in a 50's ranch, but I don't mind paying for your 3 story granite lined gullibility?? Actually I used to be a socialist. Now I see it as communism just bumped over one land group or two. We won't call it that, but there's darn little difference.
I like the guy who said it cost's me an extra 3.50 per hour per employee now. Try triple that if we socialize and bail out for another ten years. there's only so long we can borrow as a nation before reaching insolvency. there's only so much benefit you can pay per employee before you can't feed your own...small business is the biggest piece of our county pie, they get it, No one else seems to understand that today.
Servicing the debt, debt Loads, PE ratios, remember that stuff...well don't explain it to me, write your congressman and explain it to him, I'm expecting we'll try repackaging the same old tired promises and deliver no belt tightening in this decade either, regardless of who's elected. it's not in most nature's anymore to connect the dots!!
Unfortunate because I'm expecting a melt down of this bloated ice cube before any other.
hmo's, lobbyist, endless conversations...lots of troubles there...medicare is more flawed.
the average person on medicare paid for 3 years coverage and gets 20 yrs with our "flawed" medicine in this country affording them ans extra 10-20 years we hadn't expected or planned for.
Medicare is broke, you and three or 4 other boys now pay for each senior, each month. Nothing is being laid aside for you but IOU'S.
rather than rectify this by cutting off the rich, certain income levels have NO business on medicare, they lay **** after **** on the middle class.....sure, Medicare D works, NOT.
we are so busy giving millions of illegal aliens who pay no taxes medicine, that we've decided every gramma needs to pay 5 grand more. Yup, that what my grannie pays more now.
the poorest get a free ride, the illegals get a free ride, the unemployed get cut off, and the grannies with a 20K income, cause they did save their skekels so as not to be a burden on their children, get stiffed for an extra 5 grand. Make sense of that one if you are.
It's called the donut hole through which half our elderly now jump. I see the problem as 2 fold, one, people don't take advantage of cobra, 2. companies have ways around providing or offering benefits. that has to stop. 3. there has to be a bill sent to mexico that they have to pay for the billions in services we now provide. you get sick, you sneak up here you get well. what incentive does Vincente have to stop corruption OR build decent hospitals when we are willing to do all the heavy lifting??
I got an idea, you cook dinner every night, and just before you sit down to eat it, I'll come over and remove a third of it.....same idea. How long before you say, wait a minute here, I worked for that, my kids are hungry, go get your own dinner, and YOU work for it. I don't see this an an immigration issue, it's an issue of coming in, ordering a big dinner with no intention of paying the tab. In most restaurants that's called robbery.......not charity. Charity is a whole other matter. People that come lefally, apply for citizenship are afforded the same rights and priveledges that come with being a tax payer......this is different.
the average person on medicare paid for 3 years coverage and gets 20 yrs with our "flawed" medicine in this country affording them ans extra 10-20 years we hadn't expected or planned for.
Medicare is broke, you and three or 4 other boys now pay for each senior, each month. Nothing is being laid aside for you but IOU'S.
rather than rectify this by cutting off the rich, certain income levels have NO business on medicare, they lay **** after **** on the middle class.....sure, Medicare D works, NOT.
we are so busy giving millions of illegal aliens who pay no taxes medicine, that we've decided every gramma needs to pay 5 grand more. Yup, that what my grannie pays more now.
the poorest get a free ride, the illegals get a free ride, the unemployed get cut off, and the grannies with a 20K income, cause they did save their skekels so as not to be a burden on their children, get stiffed for an extra 5 grand. Make sense of that one if you are.
It's called the donut hole through which half our elderly now jump. I see the problem as 2 fold, one, people don't take advantage of cobra, 2. companies have ways around providing or offering benefits. that has to stop. 3. there has to be a bill sent to mexico that they have to pay for the billions in services we now provide. you get sick, you sneak up here you get well. what incentive does Vincente have to stop corruption OR build decent hospitals when we are willing to do all the heavy lifting??
I got an idea, you cook dinner every night, and just before you sit down to eat it, I'll come over and remove a third of it.....same idea. How long before you say, wait a minute here, I worked for that, my kids are hungry, go get your own dinner, and YOU work for it. I don't see this an an immigration issue, it's an issue of coming in, ordering a big dinner with no intention of paying the tab. In most restaurants that's called robbery.......not charity. Charity is a whole other matter. People that come lefally, apply for citizenship are afforded the same rights and priveledges that come with being a tax payer......this is different.
Why make these kinds of leaps? What does having a socialized medical system have to do with taking down capitalism? Or living in Cuba? Or the USSR? With all it's problems, Medicare is a social program, anybody complaining about having Medicare? Should we put our old people on boats out to sea and set them afire, like the Vikings?
It's one social program among many, yet capitalism in America still thrives, virtually uncapped with very few controls....it helps out big Oil in so many ways, bless their hearts, so that Big Oil makes billions in profits, more then ever.....while the average joes are paying though the nose to fill up their tanks cause they aren't getting it anywhere else.....so do all the complaining you want on that front...
I've always been solvent, with good insurance, but I don't live in this country by myself. I won't live with that, "I got mine, screw you attitude". And excuse me, but I have heard of a lot of waiting in waiting rooms here, HMOs are famous for it.
If we would of had some kind of oversight on a flaming example of unbridled capitalism - the sub-prime loan disaster wouldn't have happened....these winner takes all companies wouldn't have been able to give loans to homeless people for God's sake, taking all that upfront money...now the govt will bail out these unethical top executives, while the middle class to poor people are being thrown out of their houses (because of mass foreclosures) at unprecedented rates....which might just drag us all into a mini-recession.
Don't worry, capitalism is alive and well in the U S of A. But the medical systems are going into free fall, we can't just "do nothing" as we have been doing, like I said.....if it continues on like this, at some point only the very well heeled will be able to even afford medical insurance. And OUR TAX DOLLARS, A LOT OF TAX DOLLARS will be paying for the people waiting in ERs, a supremely inefficient way to spend our tax dollars for medical care....I don't understand some of your points though, a Hollywood guy getting a face lift would be in a plastic surgeons office, a person getting a transplant is in a hospital, hopefully.
Unless we come to some decision to let people die where they stand (that will be nice and cheery)....Maybe we need people to fly en mass to other countries for their medical care (a phenomenon that is already beginning to happen) so demand will go down.... We have to implement some new ideas, because one thing is for certain and most agree with this, the present system is broken, or at least it's pretty dang ill.
I don't think the Canadian system is the best, but it does cover their citizens... my brother's family (who live in Toronto) are rather happy with it, there is triage there. Sure there are many sides to that story too.
like your points, yes advertising is up...reason, they only have 7 yrs to recoupe all cost or R & D (research and dvelopment)...after that, they have to pay for the equipment buildings chemists to make it etc etc. etc. Then at the end of 7 years they must share the info with the rest of the world.
ok so you work your butt off for 7 years, make some money, but then, then give it all away? Government says so. No more skate board for Willy Beamish!!! You likey??
It's a trade off dude, between capitalism and socialism really. The average drug that makes it to market costs over a billion dollars for the research, test, time and trial required...jumps through a hundred required FDA tests...in the end 1 in 100 are approved. you do the math.
People invest, not the government, in drugs i.e. companies that show promise. In the end, they make some profit, or lose some, not the taxpayers/government....so the company, well heck yeah they work hard to get awareness of their drugs out there in time to recoupe their loss, would't you?
Nobody tells Ford, or Gates, or Phil Knight they must give away their trade secrets every 7 years.
to me, this is as balanced as you can get without creating anarchy and utter discouragement. If you take away all chance at success or profit you will not get the best and brightest, in the real world, that just doen't happen. You ask a guy with 14 year education and kids to feed, how about you make 20K instead of 200....which way will he jump.....???????
and your chances of a cure now or in 3 years just took a nose dive into the idealist abyss of underinformed ignoramusville ala Lenin St.leftovers from the 60's.
hope that helps!
ok so you work your butt off for 7 years, make some money, but then, then give it all away? Government says so. No more skate board for Willy Beamish!!! You likey??
It's a trade off dude, between capitalism and socialism really. The average drug that makes it to market costs over a billion dollars for the research, test, time and trial required...jumps through a hundred required FDA tests...in the end 1 in 100 are approved. you do the math.
People invest, not the government, in drugs i.e. companies that show promise. In the end, they make some profit, or lose some, not the taxpayers/government....so the company, well heck yeah they work hard to get awareness of their drugs out there in time to recoupe their loss, would't you?
Nobody tells Ford, or Gates, or Phil Knight they must give away their trade secrets every 7 years.
to me, this is as balanced as you can get without creating anarchy and utter discouragement. If you take away all chance at success or profit you will not get the best and brightest, in the real world, that just doen't happen. You ask a guy with 14 year education and kids to feed, how about you make 20K instead of 200....which way will he jump.....???????
and your chances of a cure now or in 3 years just took a nose dive into the idealist abyss of underinformed ignoramusville ala Lenin St.leftovers from the 60's.
hope that helps!
o.k. just one more thing..our system at present takes superb care of those who can afford it...i am also insured and i am v glad that yu are too...but we presently have close to 50,000,000 uninsured citizens and they do not get superb care-how is this right?.....and as for the gov't running the program,heck they do a pretty decent job with medicare and the v.a. system use to be a great one...our gov't is fine, it's the dang politicians and lobbyists messing things up-IMHO
calling any of a variety of single payer systems 'socialized' medicine begs the question...bringing up cuba and the ussr is lowbrow fearmongering..our system could take the best ideas from many countrys-i will not list them all,but they include austrailia,japan,germany-and develop an inclusive model with low overhead,low administrative costs and become once again 'the best...cause right now our status is far from the best..our infant mortality rate falls somewhere around 140th in the world-not something to be proud of..we need to spend a great deal more on preventative alternatives-how can a "capitalist",for profit system care about that?..as for paychecks,the best figures put 2 or 3 million people employed just refusing or DENYING health care -surely there are more productive ways to earn a living...we will never agree about this issue,but the fact that the for profit industry can spend nearly half a billion dollars influencing(LOBBYING) this decision makes for a very corrupted debate...and by the way the drug companys now spend more money advertising then they do on research
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