Aa
article about folic acid with tx
It is possible that adding folic acid to help the anemia, could cause other problems. I thought I'd throw this out to see what yExperimental Biology and Medicine 233:38-47 (2008)
doi: 10.3181/0703-RM-59
© 2008 Society for Experimental Biology and Medicine
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ORIGINAL RESEARCH ARTICLE
Moderately High Folic Acid Supplementation Exacerbates Experimentally Induced Liver Fibrosis in Rats
Judit Marsillach*, Natàlia Ferré, Jordi Camps*,1, Francesc Riu*, Anna Rull* and Jorge Joven*
* Centre de Recerca Biomèdica, Hospital Universitari de Sant Joan, Institut de Recerca en Ciències de la Salut, Reus, Spain; Department of Clinical Biochemistry and Molecular Genetics, Hospital Clínic Universitari, Barcelona, Spain
1To whom requests for reprints should be addressed at Centre de Recerca Biomèdica, Hospital Universitari de Sant Joan, C. Sant Joan s/n, 43201 Reus, Catalunya, Spain. E-mail: ***@****
Under certain clinical circumstances, folic acid can have undesirable effects. We investigated the following: (i) the effects of moderately high folic acid supplementation on the course of liver impairment in CCl4-treated rats and (ii) the influence of folic acid supplements on the hepatic recovery following the interruption of the CCl4-induced toxic injury. Four experimental groups of rats were used: CCl4-treated rats (0.5 ml of CCl4 twice a week ip) fed standard chow for up to 12 weeks (Group A); treated rats fed chow supplemented with 25 mg/kg folic acid from weeks 6 to 12 (Group B); treated rats fed a standard diet but with CCl4 discontinued after 6 weeks to allow for tissue recovery over 4 weeks (Group C); rats as Group C but fed a diet supplemented with 25 mg/kg folic acid from weeks 6 to 10 (Group D). Liver and blood samples were obtained for biochemical, histological, and gene expression analyses. Animals that received the supplement had a higher content of collagen, activated stellate cells, and apoptotic parenchymal cells in biopsy tissue at weeks 8 and 10 of treatment and more extensive alterations in serum albumin and bilirubin concentrations (Group B vs. Group A). In some of the time periods analyzed, alterations were observed in the expression of genes related to apoptosis (B-cell leukemia/lymphoma 2, inhibitor of apoptosis 2) and to fibrosis (procollagen I, matrix metalloproteinase 7). In the recovery period (Groups C and D), folic acid administration was associated with increased hepatic inflammation and apoptosis and with a decrease in the tissue inhibitor of metalloproteinase-3 expression following 1 week of recovery. We conclude that folic acid administration aggravates the development of fibrosis in CCl4-treated rats. Follow-up studies are needed to determine whether folic acid treatment would be contraindicated in patients with chronic liver diseases.
Key Words: apoptosis • fibrosis • folic acid • gene expression • nutrition
ou all thought. There is more to the article but here is the abstract:
doi: 10.3181/0703-RM-59
© 2008 Society for Experimental Biology and Medicine
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ORIGINAL RESEARCH ARTICLE
Moderately High Folic Acid Supplementation Exacerbates Experimentally Induced Liver Fibrosis in Rats
Judit Marsillach*, Natàlia Ferré, Jordi Camps*,1, Francesc Riu*, Anna Rull* and Jorge Joven*
* Centre de Recerca Biomèdica, Hospital Universitari de Sant Joan, Institut de Recerca en Ciències de la Salut, Reus, Spain; Department of Clinical Biochemistry and Molecular Genetics, Hospital Clínic Universitari, Barcelona, Spain
1To whom requests for reprints should be addressed at Centre de Recerca Biomèdica, Hospital Universitari de Sant Joan, C. Sant Joan s/n, 43201 Reus, Catalunya, Spain. E-mail: ***@****
Under certain clinical circumstances, folic acid can have undesirable effects. We investigated the following: (i) the effects of moderately high folic acid supplementation on the course of liver impairment in CCl4-treated rats and (ii) the influence of folic acid supplements on the hepatic recovery following the interruption of the CCl4-induced toxic injury. Four experimental groups of rats were used: CCl4-treated rats (0.5 ml of CCl4 twice a week ip) fed standard chow for up to 12 weeks (Group A); treated rats fed chow supplemented with 25 mg/kg folic acid from weeks 6 to 12 (Group B); treated rats fed a standard diet but with CCl4 discontinued after 6 weeks to allow for tissue recovery over 4 weeks (Group C); rats as Group C but fed a diet supplemented with 25 mg/kg folic acid from weeks 6 to 10 (Group D). Liver and blood samples were obtained for biochemical, histological, and gene expression analyses. Animals that received the supplement had a higher content of collagen, activated stellate cells, and apoptotic parenchymal cells in biopsy tissue at weeks 8 and 10 of treatment and more extensive alterations in serum albumin and bilirubin concentrations (Group B vs. Group A). In some of the time periods analyzed, alterations were observed in the expression of genes related to apoptosis (B-cell leukemia/lymphoma 2, inhibitor of apoptosis 2) and to fibrosis (procollagen I, matrix metalloproteinase 7). In the recovery period (Groups C and D), folic acid administration was associated with increased hepatic inflammation and apoptosis and with a decrease in the tissue inhibitor of metalloproteinase-3 expression following 1 week of recovery. We conclude that folic acid administration aggravates the development of fibrosis in CCl4-treated rats. Follow-up studies are needed to determine whether folic acid treatment would be contraindicated in patients with chronic liver diseases.
Key Words: apoptosis • fibrosis • folic acid • gene expression • nutrition
ou all thought. There is more to the article but here is the abstract:
I thought the virus was back (8 weeks post tx) was having some
pre-tx symptoms pop up. Anyway I went to my PCP, and he ran some blood.
Turns out myALT and AST are lower than EOT reading which wa good news, glucose is still a bit high but bloodwork showed I'm not diabetic BUT my thyroid is out of wack, it went hypo. (It flip-flopped during tx)
I started synthroid ( Levothroxine-I got generic which I found out was a mistake but it's too late now)
today but what I wanted to mention searching the web last night is that -
if your homocysteine level is too high it can play a part in heart conditions, PSORIASIS and HYPOTHYROIDISM.
Folic acid -B6 and B-12 help reduce levels of homocysteine (which is a amino acid in the blood). There is also a blood test for your levels of homocysteine.
Is it possible to lower the homocysteine levels and not have to take another pill for thyroid or meds for the psoriasis (especially plaque)? Curious if anyone knows as I just started reading about this, maybe someone out there knows.
I also reading last night that if you have interferon induced hypothyroidism, it could resolve on it own during a 1.5 year post tx period. If the thyroid doesn't produce by 1.5 years, it probably won't and you'll need to take the synthroid every morning for the rest of your life. Not a huge price to pay for obtaining a SVR but all the same more meds to take. (I'm sick of pills-and NEEDLES!)
enigma
pre-tx symptoms pop up. Anyway I went to my PCP, and he ran some blood.
Turns out myALT and AST are lower than EOT reading which wa good news, glucose is still a bit high but bloodwork showed I'm not diabetic BUT my thyroid is out of wack, it went hypo. (It flip-flopped during tx)
I started synthroid ( Levothroxine-I got generic which I found out was a mistake but it's too late now)
today but what I wanted to mention searching the web last night is that -
if your homocysteine level is too high it can play a part in heart conditions, PSORIASIS and HYPOTHYROIDISM.
Folic acid -B6 and B-12 help reduce levels of homocysteine (which is a amino acid in the blood). There is also a blood test for your levels of homocysteine.
Is it possible to lower the homocysteine levels and not have to take another pill for thyroid or meds for the psoriasis (especially plaque)? Curious if anyone knows as I just started reading about this, maybe someone out there knows.
I also reading last night that if you have interferon induced hypothyroidism, it could resolve on it own during a 1.5 year post tx period. If the thyroid doesn't produce by 1.5 years, it probably won't and you'll need to take the synthroid every morning for the rest of your life. Not a huge price to pay for obtaining a SVR but all the same more meds to take. (I'm sick of pills-and NEEDLES!)
enigma
I just went to the doc's on Wednesday, and the NP told me I should be taking vitamins and folic acid (after ten weeks) because the folic acid does help to generate blood cells. Well, sometimes this is all so confusing. I'm so tired lately but blood levels don't require any rescue drugs yet. A shot of B-12 or anything else that would get me off the sofa sounds wonderful right about now lol.
Wilful
Wilful
LOL...take that all you broccoli huggers!!
danged if we do, danged if we don't....
oh, well, belly up to the crispy creme's boys!!!! Your vindication has arrived!!!
; )
danged if we do, danged if we don't....
oh, well, belly up to the crispy creme's boys!!!! Your vindication has arrived!!!
; )
LOL....how about checking the folic acid and B12 levels instead?
Naaa....too simple....LOL
Yes it is simple so WHY isnt it done.
Second this only works for when you start Tx
You would also have to monitor them during Tx as well. Seeing as our tastes chance so that we consume all the good food groups. You know everything with Sugar Salt and Fat.
Thirdly They cheap and if you dont need them you will get rid of them.
Whats the problem
CS
Naaa....too simple....LOL
Yes it is simple so WHY isnt it done.
Second this only works for when you start Tx
You would also have to monitor them during Tx as well. Seeing as our tastes chance so that we consume all the good food groups. You know everything with Sugar Salt and Fat.
Thirdly They cheap and if you dont need them you will get rid of them.
Whats the problem
CS
My naturopath put me on high folic acid and super B6/B complex prior to tx to help build healthy red blood cells but he said not to continue with the folic acid (super high potency) during tx but to continue with the B-complex (which has some folic acid in it anyway).
My specialist okayed me taking the supplement. (I note here that everyone is different and every specialist is different)...
I was already taking a B-complex (not so high potency), because I had been diagnosed some years ago with border-line low B12 deficiency (not sure whether this is liver related but I think it may be).
B12 is the ONLY vitamin which will not be absorbed in our bodies without the release of a substance (called the "instrinsic factor") from a gland in our stomachs. In elderley people or those with health problems, sometimes the intrinsic factor stops working and they, therefore, need to have B12 injections for life to stop pernicious anemia which is life threatening (I believe it does have to do with nerve damage but it was so long ago that I looked it up - sorry - you'll have to google..)
I had 2 injections before the nurse realised she had read the form incorrectly and my stomach was still able to produce this greebly intrinsic factor!!!. However, the B12 injections made me feel GREAT and got rid of my sciatica pain within hours - honest!!!!(googled that later and found I wasn't making it up :-). After that, I took B-complex regularly, and if I missed for long, my leg aches told me. My father-in-law has to take injections and apparently it's quite common.
I googled Red Blood Cells and B12/B6 and it looks as though they do help the body produce RBC.... I'm on a high dose Riba with no rescue meds available and I'm hoping it's being helpful - now, gotta go and lie down lol!!!!
In mega doses (despite it being water soluable) B-complex can be toxic but my naturopath said it had to be millions greater than what I'm taking; I'm checking it out with my private specialist (my 2nd opinion guy because my med nurse is past her use by date) next week and will let you know any update.
BTW since the beginning of tx a thought keeps going through my head...
"Pity the lab rat" (I'll let y'all know if my fribrosis worsens!!!)
My specialist okayed me taking the supplement. (I note here that everyone is different and every specialist is different)...
I was already taking a B-complex (not so high potency), because I had been diagnosed some years ago with border-line low B12 deficiency (not sure whether this is liver related but I think it may be).
B12 is the ONLY vitamin which will not be absorbed in our bodies without the release of a substance (called the "instrinsic factor") from a gland in our stomachs. In elderley people or those with health problems, sometimes the intrinsic factor stops working and they, therefore, need to have B12 injections for life to stop pernicious anemia which is life threatening (I believe it does have to do with nerve damage but it was so long ago that I looked it up - sorry - you'll have to google..)
I had 2 injections before the nurse realised she had read the form incorrectly and my stomach was still able to produce this greebly intrinsic factor!!!. However, the B12 injections made me feel GREAT and got rid of my sciatica pain within hours - honest!!!!(googled that later and found I wasn't making it up :-). After that, I took B-complex regularly, and if I missed for long, my leg aches told me. My father-in-law has to take injections and apparently it's quite common.
I googled Red Blood Cells and B12/B6 and it looks as though they do help the body produce RBC.... I'm on a high dose Riba with no rescue meds available and I'm hoping it's being helpful - now, gotta go and lie down lol!!!!
In mega doses (despite it being water soluable) B-complex can be toxic but my naturopath said it had to be millions greater than what I'm taking; I'm checking it out with my private specialist (my 2nd opinion guy because my med nurse is past her use by date) next week and will let you know any update.
BTW since the beginning of tx a thought keeps going through my head...
"Pity the lab rat" (I'll let y'all know if my fribrosis worsens!!!)
"Taking B12 and Folic Acid just helps make sure that any anemia is caused by Riba and not some of the other causes. "
LOL....how about checking the folic acid and B12 levels instead?
Naaa....too simple....LOL
LOL....how about checking the folic acid and B12 levels instead?
Naaa....too simple....LOL
Even if the folic acid doesn't help the hemolytic anemia caused by riba, wouldn't it help to build new healthy cells to replace the bad ones?
My doc put me on Folic Acid and B12 for the anemia on tx .. I mentioned to him I'd read that it didn't help with riba-induced anemia and he said mostly not...but could in about 15% of the cases. Since I was trying to keep away dosage reductions, I took it for the 15% chance rather than zero chance. Can't say that it helped any .. but then again, I don't have a clue, only that it didn't improve but maybe kept it from getting that bit worse, who knows. Took it as another arrow in the quiver so to speak, even if it was a tiny one.
Trish
Trish
This is going to be one of those that just depends.
If you take TMG then you need the Folic Acid +B12 to make SAMe.
Which would then help undo some of the damage being done.
CoWriter
Not all anemia on Tx is caused by Riba
IFN causes about 2% of it and Pernicious anemia also occurs.
And having Low Iron wouldnt help either,
Taking B12 and Folic Acid just helps make sure that any anemia is caused by Riba and not some of the other causes.
CS
If you take TMG then you need the Folic Acid +B12 to make SAMe.
Which would then help undo some of the damage being done.
CoWriter
Not all anemia on Tx is caused by Riba
IFN causes about 2% of it and Pernicious anemia also occurs.
And having Low Iron wouldnt help either,
Taking B12 and Folic Acid just helps make sure that any anemia is caused by Riba and not some of the other causes.
CS
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