Aa
kinda rotten (and ciao to HR)
you know I just got back from CA, met with my new hepatologist, I had a mean 24 hour turn around trip, got family coming for Christmas, got work to do for 4 people, I'm feeling good physically, couldn't wait to get back to the board to update all on what my new doc said and ask some questions here about biopsy and let you all know what I was doing with Franco to help verify some of his work etc and after reading a few posts I just have an I don't care attitude right because of the 'vibe' here like Jimmy or whoever that was asking where I was, and making rude remarks about Franco, like I have to document my every move or like I was trying to hide, I WAS IN CA SEEING MY NEW HEPATOLOGIST OK? I really don't care if some here think that homeopathic is bs or not, that is not the point.
This condescending attitude does nothing but turn me off, you guys just want to attack and bash. That's OK. I'm a good person, wanted to contribute, I will not engage in fighting, I want to give my way a chance to heal. My hepatologist was " very puzzled" as to why my viral lode had dropped so much.
HepResearcher I was working on getting you and your assoc. to speak with Franco and I still want to do that, it's just that this board is making it real difficult to even engage in a positive arena.
I'll be around, got alot to do, and certainly will not be subjected to this childish cr@p that I see here right now.
Later, Jane... (HR maybe we can e-mail each other ? PS I was in Pasadena, CA, Huntington Memorial hospital area, the HMRI Liver institute there, Dr. Edward Mena, familiar at all? )
This condescending attitude does nothing but turn me off, you guys just want to attack and bash. That's OK. I'm a good person, wanted to contribute, I will not engage in fighting, I want to give my way a chance to heal. My hepatologist was " very puzzled" as to why my viral lode had dropped so much.
HepResearcher I was working on getting you and your assoc. to speak with Franco and I still want to do that, it's just that this board is making it real difficult to even engage in a positive arena.
I'll be around, got alot to do, and certainly will not be subjected to this childish cr@p that I see here right now.
Later, Jane... (HR maybe we can e-mail each other ? PS I was in Pasadena, CA, Huntington Memorial hospital area, the HMRI Liver institute there, Dr. Edward Mena, familiar at all? )
wow! what happened to MH? You are gone for a few days and find that the house was remodeled?
homeopathy; I see a lot of desperate people reaching out for straws that have not been proven effective and safe, based only on a good, kind older drs' words to another desperate, vulnerable soul. All I want to see is the actual proof, nothing else, to believe in its effectiveness, words are not enough, show us the actual labwork for the viral count. Simple.
Wishing all health and HCV free life.
homeopathy; I see a lot of desperate people reaching out for straws that have not been proven effective and safe, based only on a good, kind older drs' words to another desperate, vulnerable soul. All I want to see is the actual proof, nothing else, to believe in its effectiveness, words are not enough, show us the actual labwork for the viral count. Simple.
Wishing all health and HCV free life.
wow! what happened to MH? You are gone for a few days and find that the house was remodeled?
homeopathy; I see a lot of desperate people reaching out for straws that have not been proven effective and safe, based only on a good, kind older drs' words to another desperate, vulnerable soul. All I want to see is the actual proof, nothing else, to believe in its effectiveness, words are not enough, show us the actual labwork for the viral count. Simple.
Wishing all health and HCV free life.
homeopathy; I see a lot of desperate people reaching out for straws that have not been proven effective and safe, based only on a good, kind older drs' words to another desperate, vulnerable soul. All I want to see is the actual proof, nothing else, to believe in its effectiveness, words are not enough, show us the actual labwork for the viral count. Simple.
Wishing all health and HCV free life.
wow! what happened to MH? You are gone for a few days and find that the house was remodeled?
homeopathy; I see a lot of desperate people reaching out for straws that have not been proven effective and safe, based only on a good, kind older drs' words to another desperate, vulnerable soul. All I want to see is the actual proof, nothing else, to believe in its effectiveness, words are not enough, show us the actual labwork for the viral count. Simple.
Wishing all health and HCV free life.
homeopathy; I see a lot of desperate people reaching out for straws that have not been proven effective and safe, based only on a good, kind older drs' words to another desperate, vulnerable soul. All I want to see is the actual proof, nothing else, to believe in its effectiveness, words are not enough, show us the actual labwork for the viral count. Simple.
Wishing all health and HCV free life.
wow! what happened to MH? You are gone for a few days and find that the house was remodeled?
homeopathy; I see a lot of desperate people reaching out for straws that have not been proven effective and safe, based only on a good, kind older drs' words to another desperate, vulnerable soul. All I want to see is the actual proof, nothing else, to believe in its effectiveness, words are not enough, show us the actual labwork for the viral count. Simple.
Wishing all health and HCV free life.
homeopathy; I see a lot of desperate people reaching out for straws that have not been proven effective and safe, based only on a good, kind older drs' words to another desperate, vulnerable soul. All I want to see is the actual proof, nothing else, to believe in its effectiveness, words are not enough, show us the actual labwork for the viral count. Simple.
Wishing all health and HCV free life.
I agree Jane, all it does to split it up is confuse everyone or cause them to not post because it isn't "scientific" or they are afraid of being chastised for posting "wrong" or attacked and put down for it being in the wrong place.
It's sad because I feel the discussion around here is born out of people asking questions about having HCV or treating it and that is what evolves into the discussions and sharing of info and research material.
You can't separate the two I don't think, new people will not get it and a "chit chat" board seems like a waste of bandwidth.Plus calling patient to patient personal support "chitchat" is sort of a put down.
Now people won't know what to post or where to post it and they will be more intimidated than ever. I bet what happens is the forum will have a lot less input, period.
It seemed to have a real icy effect on the forum the minute the announcement was made.
Plus it seems like a push aside to the "guests" here to add a new board and kick people off this board and say to all those who are here "hey, move over there, we are going to clean this place up of your "chitchat" and don't feel it is informational enough" if they wanted to add an area just for "research and info" then have those interested move to the new spot rather than everyone in the room moving. If someone has a question about a side effect is that chitchat or informational? It's just too hard to pick apart your posts like that. It is the free flow of info. that CREATES the context for the "research and informational" content. Someone asks a question, others provide info to address their question. So we are suppossed to go over there to say "how are you feeling?" but come here if we want to know what others think of our HGB level?
It's going to goof up the ebb and flow of the place big time.
I think it's easier to deal with a few silly posts than dealing with the disjointedness brought on by this misguided effort to "fix" things. I think what will happen is people will still post like always, others will respond like always and hopefully it will get back to the way it was before this came about or people will find new boards to visit that they can just post freely on not having to sort out what goes where.
The other site is cumbersome and the post box is tiny, it's like they say come visit over here, but you can only say two words. I don't see it as progress at all.
It's sad because I feel the discussion around here is born out of people asking questions about having HCV or treating it and that is what evolves into the discussions and sharing of info and research material.
You can't separate the two I don't think, new people will not get it and a "chit chat" board seems like a waste of bandwidth.Plus calling patient to patient personal support "chitchat" is sort of a put down.
Now people won't know what to post or where to post it and they will be more intimidated than ever. I bet what happens is the forum will have a lot less input, period.
It seemed to have a real icy effect on the forum the minute the announcement was made.
Plus it seems like a push aside to the "guests" here to add a new board and kick people off this board and say to all those who are here "hey, move over there, we are going to clean this place up of your "chitchat" and don't feel it is informational enough" if they wanted to add an area just for "research and info" then have those interested move to the new spot rather than everyone in the room moving. If someone has a question about a side effect is that chitchat or informational? It's just too hard to pick apart your posts like that. It is the free flow of info. that CREATES the context for the "research and informational" content. Someone asks a question, others provide info to address their question. So we are suppossed to go over there to say "how are you feeling?" but come here if we want to know what others think of our HGB level?
It's going to goof up the ebb and flow of the place big time.
I think it's easier to deal with a few silly posts than dealing with the disjointedness brought on by this misguided effort to "fix" things. I think what will happen is people will still post like always, others will respond like always and hopefully it will get back to the way it was before this came about or people will find new boards to visit that they can just post freely on not having to sort out what goes where.
The other site is cumbersome and the post box is tiny, it's like they say come visit over here, but you can only say two words. I don't see it as progress at all.
thank you sunspot, and I will post as I know 'stuff' and will post on my homeo progress. I had a couple of minutes, blew through the posts and saw this 'new board' thing that is being concocted, I find it confusing, one board for med stuff and one board for communication about our med stuff? sheesh. as if our lives aren't devastating enough.
Please keep us informed of your progress. You sound like a nice person and I wish the best for you.
Thanks for your post; I am interested in more data on homeopathic treatment with Franco.
I just had my
I just had my
Hi, and thanks for your input. You know I keep hearing about all these 'non-responders' like you and it's sad and it's scary.
Yea, I kinda took the 90% with a grain of salt, and you aren't the first person to tell me that it was kinda weird of this doc to be puzzled about the VL drop. Between some of these screwball doctors, he's my second 'specialist', and this shot in the dark treatment, I don't know... I know people here think I am some wild renegade mustang who is bucking the tried and true system, but so far I just don't see it. Should I really be surprised when these 'doctor's' roll their eyes and tell me I'm nuts not to dive into this vat of interferon? Again, I do not claim to know it all, but I do know what I have learned thus far.
I will do my biopsy, I will allow that result to help me make further plans, but for now, it's homeopathic with Franco. This is a major uphill battle for me right now because the consensous in the medical arena is very homeo-phobic.
Ciao for now, Jane.
Yea, I kinda took the 90% with a grain of salt, and you aren't the first person to tell me that it was kinda weird of this doc to be puzzled about the VL drop. Between some of these screwball doctors, he's my second 'specialist', and this shot in the dark treatment, I don't know... I know people here think I am some wild renegade mustang who is bucking the tried and true system, but so far I just don't see it. Should I really be surprised when these 'doctor's' roll their eyes and tell me I'm nuts not to dive into this vat of interferon? Again, I do not claim to know it all, but I do know what I have learned thus far.
I will do my biopsy, I will allow that result to help me make further plans, but for now, it's homeopathic with Franco. This is a major uphill battle for me right now because the consensous in the medical arena is very homeo-phobic.
Ciao for now, Jane.
I agree with your comments 100% - but they do SOUND like your being snitty. I often come across that way when I'm trying to make a solid point...it's the internet so nobody can tell for sure exactly how you are saying something or not.
It's gotten me into arguments before - when I was being sarcastic and people thought serious or something like that.
It's important that people know there is NO homeopathic cure for HCV. There is no herbal cure for HCV. There is no cure for HCV except the crappy drugs we can take now.
I worry about the propoganda too - people dont need false hope just because it's easier it doesn't make it work.
If there was a miracle cure the person with it would be a billionaire right? But some people just don't WANT to listen to LOGIC. I've seen it happen before on here many times - it ain't pretty.
But post some smilies or something maybe... :) while reminding people that it AINT real medicine and it DOESNT work as a cure.
That way - nobody can say nothing!
Says me - the one who's ALWAYS ALWAYS putting her foot in her mouth! :)
Politely said there is no real science to it. People often get confused and believe herbal or supplemental alternatives and Homeopathy but they are not one and the same. They are not. Homeopathy is a specific premise that has the appearance of being "science" in the true sense, but there is no valid science to it. The premise of Homeopathy lacks in scientific integrity.
That is not to say there are not alternative treatments and substances that show they have some legitimate positive effect on those with HCV that do warrant attention but they are not "homeopathy" they are "alternatives" to traditional medicine.
Some think if they are taking these things they are taking a homeopathic approach, they are taking an alternative approach.
Here is a blurb about it:
Homeopathy: The Ultimate Fake
Stephen Barrett, M.D.
Homeopathic "remedies" enjoy a unique status in the health marketplace: They are the only category of quack products legally marketable as drugs. This situation is the result of two circumstances. First, the 1938 Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act, which was shepherded through Congress by a homeopathic physician who was a senator, recognizes as drugs all substances included in the Homeopathic Pharmacopeia of the United States. Second, the FDA has not held homeopathic products to the same standards as other drugs. Today they are marketed in health-food stores, in pharmacies, in practitioner offices, by multilevel distributors [A], through the mail, and on the Internet.
Basic Misbeliefs
Samuel Hahnemann (1755-1843), a German physician, began formulating homeopathy's basic principles in the late 1700s. Hahnemann was justifiably distressed about bloodletting, leeching, purging, and other medical procedures of his day that did far more harm than good. Thinking that these treatments were intended to "balance the body's 'humors' by opposite effects," he developed his "law of similars"
That is not to say there are not alternative treatments and substances that show they have some legitimate positive effect on those with HCV that do warrant attention but they are not "homeopathy" they are "alternatives" to traditional medicine.
Some think if they are taking these things they are taking a homeopathic approach, they are taking an alternative approach.
Here is a blurb about it:
Homeopathy: The Ultimate Fake
Stephen Barrett, M.D.
Homeopathic "remedies" enjoy a unique status in the health marketplace: They are the only category of quack products legally marketable as drugs. This situation is the result of two circumstances. First, the 1938 Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act, which was shepherded through Congress by a homeopathic physician who was a senator, recognizes as drugs all substances included in the Homeopathic Pharmacopeia of the United States. Second, the FDA has not held homeopathic products to the same standards as other drugs. Today they are marketed in health-food stores, in pharmacies, in practitioner offices, by multilevel distributors [A], through the mail, and on the Internet.
Basic Misbeliefs
Samuel Hahnemann (1755-1843), a German physician, began formulating homeopathy's basic principles in the late 1700s. Hahnemann was justifiably distressed about bloodletting, leeching, purging, and other medical procedures of his day that did far more harm than good. Thinking that these treatments were intended to "balance the body's 'humors' by opposite effects," he developed his "law of similars"
I feel it is better to present your science and your argument without devolving into personal or snide attack.
You catch a lot more flies with honey than you do with vinegar if you catch my drift.
The idea in a debate is to have your POV be so clear and well presented that it sways the opposing view to your side, the idea is not to bat the opposing viewer over the head with insults. No one listens that way, persuasive argument does just that, it persuades the other to think differently.
You catch a lot more flies with honey than you do with vinegar if you catch my drift.
The idea in a debate is to have your POV be so clear and well presented that it sways the opposing view to your side, the idea is not to bat the opposing viewer over the head with insults. No one listens that way, persuasive argument does just that, it persuades the other to think differently.
Thank you for sharing your information. It is helpful! If there are those who disagree then I wish they would politely agree to disagree rather than attack.
I am sorry but NOBODY has EVER cleared the virus using homeopathic measures.
NOBODY.
Don't waste your time. If it were possible it would be on the front page of every major newspaper in the land and we would all be doing it instead.
People are DESPERATE and willing to believe things that make no sense. If there is proof that ANYONE EVER was cured - NOBODY has ever seen it.
NOBODY.
Don't waste your time. If it were possible it would be on the front page of every major newspaper in the land and we would all be doing it instead.
People are DESPERATE and willing to believe things that make no sense. If there is proof that ANYONE EVER was cured - NOBODY has ever seen it.
I sure would love to give you my e-mail address in case you ever need to vent off the forum. Sorry, I can't.
Bug
Bug
Hey Jane, I wish you the best with your new hepatologist, and I hope whatever route your chose it'll work for you.
You definitely have a place on this board, but I have a favor to ask you. Could you refrain from putting HR in the title if "kinda rotten" will do? That way, no one here (if they are looking for anything HR has to add) won't have to sift through all this rotten arguing trying to find out what HR had (or didn't have in this case) to contribute.
Thanks. Wishing you the best.
You definitely have a place on this board, but I have a favor to ask you. Could you refrain from putting HR in the title if "kinda rotten" will do? That way, no one here (if they are looking for anything HR has to add) won't have to sift through all this rotten arguing trying to find out what HR had (or didn't have in this case) to contribute.
Thanks. Wishing you the best.
No loss on either side. There was never a 'logical' debate to get involved with. If you don't agree with someone's views move on to another thread and offer support to someone you might agree with. Jane never solicited your opinion and has been very kind to strangers on this website. You have ridiculed her and continued to taunt her when she doesn't respond.
Maybe you can go find a playground and steal some kid's lunch money if you're bored.
Bug
Maybe you can go find a playground and steal some kid's lunch money if you're bored.
Bug
Okay, brain fog has set in. I thought stage 4 was end stage liver disease, but I will pull out my paperwork and check for you. No spider veins, etc., but have the typical dark pigmentation on my face, severe pain in my liver at times, and doc is sorting out tests to make sure I don't have an esophogeal varices developing, big bulging vein around base of neck. Starting to have some real trouble at times with my swallowing and crazy things happen when I lay down. Part of what the weirdness is....I never drank. Ever. But got the virus about 30 years ago. Took about 5 years to go from stage 2 to early stage 3. Doc emphasized EARLY.
No biopsy, three cat scans tho and a day in the hospital for some other tests. They didn't hurt. Biopsy is due in January or February of 07. The first two I had hurt like hell, so I'm not in a hurry.
Hope this helps. I'm eating dinner and trying to type. Lost the thread of what you asked. Hope this helps.
Willow
No biopsy, three cat scans tho and a day in the hospital for some other tests. They didn't hurt. Biopsy is due in January or February of 07. The first two I had hurt like hell, so I'm not in a hurry.
Hope this helps. I'm eating dinner and trying to type. Lost the thread of what you asked. Hope this helps.
Willow
kittyface, I am going to be in touch with HR soon, I am going to do what I can to help 'verify' Dr. Franco. HR is a blessing and God send, the fact that he offered to 'get involved', I'm very happy, very honored, so I think that the logical thing to do would be to wait til I can get through Christmas. I will be speaking to Franco this month, we will talk about how he can help, I know he will want to help. And whoever was the person that said that Dr. Franco only looks at alt's and ast's, please stop posting false info, you don't have a clue what you are talking about, why would you say that, that is a lie.
Kittyface we'll be posting/talking here regarding this very controversial topic so if and when you want to try, I'll be here, OK?
Kittyface we'll be posting/talking here regarding this very controversial topic so if and when you want to try, I'll be here, OK?
I don't know why he said that, about the cirrihosis, he was so calm, so kind, and yes good point, IF he had thought I was cirr he would have pushed for the biopsy, that thought made me feel better, whether it's true or not I don't know but it feels good thinking that today I'll tell you. He hooked at my neck, and at the palm of my hands, and he checked out my abdomin, and he kept saying good, good. So you think good??
And no, no website for OTIS, and no links for what I am taking, sorry, we'll get more info out there, I am pleased to say the least to have met HR on this board, what an honor and gift.
OK, got to get back to work, our home business has been exploding over the past few years.
Ciao for now, Jane.
And no, no website for OTIS, and no links for what I am taking, sorry, we'll get more info out there, I am pleased to say the least to have met HR on this board, what an honor and gift.
OK, got to get back to work, our home business has been exploding over the past few years.
Ciao for now, Jane.
hi willows hope you dont mind me asking a few questions. you posted about your doc looking at your finger nails, what was he looking for and see? also the alt/ast, what was your ratio? did you have any other symptoms like spider anginoma, red palms, etc? you said the doc put you at stage 3, early cirhosiss, i have never heard of stage 3 being cirhosiss, i thought that was stage 4? did you ever have a biopsy to see if he was right? thanks and wish you well
My apologies if anything I posted about homeopathy was harsh or condescending. I don't wish to put unneeded stress on anyone in the middle of diagnosis and treatment. I hope we can agree to disagree. My experience with this form of treatment has all been negative. My issue - not yours.
My prayer is that all become sustained responders and that no one ever again needs IFN. That Roche and S-P can devote their energies to producing other types of medicine and that the company that holds the 'patent' on HCV (obscene notion) never receives another dime from researchers just so they can do their work.(Olive branch extended - soapbox dismount.)
My prayer is that all become sustained responders and that no one ever again needs IFN. That Roche and S-P can devote their energies to producing other types of medicine and that the company that holds the 'patent' on HCV (obscene notion) never receives another dime from researchers just so they can do their work.(Olive branch extended - soapbox dismount.)
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