Aa
Red Rice Yeast Extract/ Cholesterol Lowering Drugs
I've posted this before, but maybe some new members will chime in, and maybe some older members can update their progress.
Anyone here tried Red Yeast Rice Extract to lower cholesterol?
If so, which brand, and what dose did you take? What was your total cholesterol, LDL, HDL, and Tri's, before the Red Yeast and what was it after? Any side effects?
Also, curious if anyone has taken both a statin and Red Yeast (at different times of course) and which worked best for them.
Ina's (Eisbein) post yesterday (she eats like a Monk now) got me going a bit, but since I don't have her discipline, it's time for some intervention.
As background, I have a family history of cardiac issues including high LDL and genetically low HDL, somewhat resistant to exercise. I did try Lipitor (starting dose) a few months ago. Got good results. But stopped taking it to see if some symptons (muscle soreness/fatigue) I was experiencing was related to the Lipitor. Experiment inconclusive so far.
In any event, I'll be back on Lipitor, another stain or Red Yeast pretty soon.
Thanks for any help you may have to offer.
-- Jim
Anyone here tried Red Yeast Rice Extract to lower cholesterol?
If so, which brand, and what dose did you take? What was your total cholesterol, LDL, HDL, and Tri's, before the Red Yeast and what was it after? Any side effects?
Also, curious if anyone has taken both a statin and Red Yeast (at different times of course) and which worked best for them.
Ina's (Eisbein) post yesterday (she eats like a Monk now) got me going a bit, but since I don't have her discipline, it's time for some intervention.
As background, I have a family history of cardiac issues including high LDL and genetically low HDL, somewhat resistant to exercise. I did try Lipitor (starting dose) a few months ago. Got good results. But stopped taking it to see if some symptons (muscle soreness/fatigue) I was experiencing was related to the Lipitor. Experiment inconclusive so far.
In any event, I'll be back on Lipitor, another stain or Red Yeast pretty soon.
Thanks for any help you may have to offer.
-- Jim
i too have troubles with RYR. Just started but since i drink occasionally, i think it is causing me a lot of headaches, chills, slight fever, muscle pains, neck pains, muscle twitching, will stop for a while and see how it goes. no alcohol and RYR for a while.
while I scrape the egg off my face, really a little jittery yesterday, and I was wrong about this (it happens lol) what I thought you were talking about for some idiotic reason is rice bran, never tried this stuff...but I know people who have...
Atr the risk of being a smart @rse may I suggest that if you want to lower your choleresterol then catch yourself HCV-G3a. This will almost certainly lower your cholesterol to apx half the LLN. Cause you will have a Fatty Liver as a side effect. But then you cant have everything.
CS
CS
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
The myopathy can be most reliably monitored with total CK levels. Even without myopathy, a lowering of Q10 levels could bring other problems, like less protection for the LDL particles that rely on a combination of Vit E and Q10 for protection against oxidation.Shiel laboratory in New York BTW now routinely measures oxidized LDL, considered the most dangerous form of LDL, because it cannot be degraded in the endothelium. Q10 functions a a key component of the mitochondrial electron transport chain ,and, independently, as a lipophilic antioxidant, where it eg recharges spent Vit E that has attained the form of the toxic tocopheryl radical. It also has numerous other functions as chaperone of critical biochemical processes.
Testing for Q10 while off supplementation will give you a baseline for your endogenous synthesis capacity. When on statin, you can see it shift downwards, when adding it as a supplement you will know how much to take to lift it into the proper range.Testing can be done by Kronos laboratory in Phenix or by Metametrix lab A large reference population has been tested, so you will know your personal place in that range is relevant.. For supplementation starters 200mg of the now available "Ubichinol" should be quite sufficient. LEF has that form. Resorption is often a problem. Testing would show you that you indeed absorp/supplement enough.
i would take neither a statin nor yeast extract before exhausting all the other avenues. For your low HDL problem intense exercise plus 1000mg of Niacin are important measures.
A more detailed analysis of your Lipid profile using VAP and NMR for particle classes, particle numbers and particle size is recommended for the very pragmatic reason that it will allow you to see if your measures are effective on the LDL/HDL subclass that truly matters ( small LDL particle number, large HDL particle concentration). At the same global LDL/HDL concentration you could have a dramatically different subprofile, that you WERE able to improve without ever knowing it and therefore not persuing what could have helped your risk profile.
Testing for Q10 while off supplementation will give you a baseline for your endogenous synthesis capacity. When on statin, you can see it shift downwards, when adding it as a supplement you will know how much to take to lift it into the proper range.Testing can be done by Kronos laboratory in Phenix or by Metametrix lab A large reference population has been tested, so you will know your personal place in that range is relevant.. For supplementation starters 200mg of the now available "Ubichinol" should be quite sufficient. LEF has that form. Resorption is often a problem. Testing would show you that you indeed absorp/supplement enough.
i would take neither a statin nor yeast extract before exhausting all the other avenues. For your low HDL problem intense exercise plus 1000mg of Niacin are important measures.
A more detailed analysis of your Lipid profile using VAP and NMR for particle classes, particle numbers and particle size is recommended for the very pragmatic reason that it will allow you to see if your measures are effective on the LDL/HDL subclass that truly matters ( small LDL particle number, large HDL particle concentration). At the same global LDL/HDL concentration you could have a dramatically different subprofile, that you WERE able to improve without ever knowing it and therefore not persuing what could have helped your risk profile.
Forsee: think you would look cute in a Friar's Tuck's outfit along with Ina...don't forget the full hood and tie belt though...leave it to you as far as any undergarments and what they are...
-------------------
Maybe you should post your supplement list again. It appears to be having a rather unusual (but interesting) affect on the way your brain-synapses are firing :)
-------------------
Maybe you should post your supplement list again. It appears to be having a rather unusual (but interesting) affect on the way your brain-synapses are firing :)
Hi HR,
Thanks for the response.
My little off (and maybe on again) experiment was inconclusive as to the myopathy (muscle soreness issues) but my guess is that I my muscles were more sore on the Lipitor than when off of it. I will know better if/when I go back on Lipitor and will try to keep the same, steady exercise level to see if the muscle soreness is from the statin or not.
As to the Q10, yes, I did take some, but only after around a couple of weeks into the Lipitor. Again, inconclusive as to what was causing what because the soreness was specfic to the muscle groups I was working out at the time, and the fatigue could have been anything including the Cozaar I was then taking.
A few questions:
(1) The literature talks a lot about "myopathy" but it's unclear whether a little xtra muscle soreness on a statin (with or without Q10) is reason for concern. In other words, as long as I don't have significant muscle issues on a statin, is there a problem continuing?
(1) Right now I'm off Q10. Do you sugggest I test for it while not taking it, or when on it. Or doesn't it matter. Do you have any dosage recommendation for Q10 or brand?
(2) What is the name that tests Q10 in serum?
(3) I'm familiar with many of the study points re Red Yeast versus a statin ,but my thinking was maybe less toxcity and maybe I can dose lower.
Not to put you on the spot, but if you were in my shoes, what would you take -- a statin or Red Yeast -- and if a statin, which one? I had good results with Lipitor (low dose) but was thinking of taking perhaps a yeast-based statin like Lovastatin instead of a synthetic like Lipitor. That said, I heard a lot of docs take Lipitor, but what do they know, right :)
(4) If you went with Red Yeast, which brand and what starting dose? My brother took Nature's Plus which is a time release.
Thanks again for responding and for taking the time to pop in here every once and awhile with your valuable insights.
All the best,
-- Jim
Thanks for the response.
My little off (and maybe on again) experiment was inconclusive as to the myopathy (muscle soreness issues) but my guess is that I my muscles were more sore on the Lipitor than when off of it. I will know better if/when I go back on Lipitor and will try to keep the same, steady exercise level to see if the muscle soreness is from the statin or not.
As to the Q10, yes, I did take some, but only after around a couple of weeks into the Lipitor. Again, inconclusive as to what was causing what because the soreness was specfic to the muscle groups I was working out at the time, and the fatigue could have been anything including the Cozaar I was then taking.
A few questions:
(1) The literature talks a lot about "myopathy" but it's unclear whether a little xtra muscle soreness on a statin (with or without Q10) is reason for concern. In other words, as long as I don't have significant muscle issues on a statin, is there a problem continuing?
(1) Right now I'm off Q10. Do you sugggest I test for it while not taking it, or when on it. Or doesn't it matter. Do you have any dosage recommendation for Q10 or brand?
(2) What is the name that tests Q10 in serum?
(3) I'm familiar with many of the study points re Red Yeast versus a statin ,but my thinking was maybe less toxcity and maybe I can dose lower.
Not to put you on the spot, but if you were in my shoes, what would you take -- a statin or Red Yeast -- and if a statin, which one? I had good results with Lipitor (low dose) but was thinking of taking perhaps a yeast-based statin like Lovastatin instead of a synthetic like Lipitor. That said, I heard a lot of docs take Lipitor, but what do they know, right :)
(4) If you went with Red Yeast, which brand and what starting dose? My brother took Nature's Plus which is a time release.
Thanks again for responding and for taking the time to pop in here every once and awhile with your valuable insights.
All the best,
-- Jim
going this afternoon...that's prop why I'm on here, I'm nervous....lol...
HR: whew!
HR: whew!
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
Red rice yeast extract contains a statin similar to lovastatin. Dosage and standardization might be problematic. Most likely some mold toxins are included in the extract that are not desirable, but we cannot rule out that it is the combo of additional substances that even enhances its activity compared with the pure statins.
The problems with myopathy are just as real as with statins and are at least partly related to the blockage of Coenzyme Q10 synthesis that uses the same pathway as cholesterol. When you took Lipitor did you supplement with Q10 to counteract this effect as recommended by many? Do you know that you can measure your levels of Q10 in serum, which would help to decide that you indeed have a preventable deficiency, particularly while on treatment with statins, which could most easily be compensated for with exogenous Q10, allowing the important statin therapy to continue?
Here are two pertinent abstracts re red rice yeast extract:
National Research Centre in Complementary and Alternative Medicine (NAFKAM), University of Tromso, Tromso N-9037, Norway. Jianping.***@****
Extracts of Chinese red yeast rice (RYR, a traditional dietary seasoning of Monascus purpureus) contains several active ingredients including lovastatin, and several trials of its possible lipid-lowering effects have been conducted. This meta-analysis assesses the effectiveness and safety of RYR preparations on lipid modification in primary hyperlipidemia. We included randomized controlled trials testing RYR preparation, compared with placebo, no treatment, statins, or other active lipid-lowering agents in people with hyperlipidemia through searching PubMed, CBMdisk, TCMLARS, the Cochrane Library, and AMED up to December 2004. Ninety-three randomized trials (9625 participants) were included and three RYR preparations (Cholestin, Xuezhikang and Zhibituo) were tested. The methodological quality of trial reports was generally low in terms of generation of the allocation sequence, allocation concealment, blinding, and intention-to-treat. The combined results showed significant reduction of serum total cholesterol levels (weighted mean difference -0.91 mmol/L, 95% confidence interval -1.12 to -0.71), triglycerides levels (-0.41 mmol/L, -0.6 to -0.22), and LDL-cholesterol levels (-0.73 mmol/L, -1.02 to -0.043), and increase of HDL-cholesterol levels (0.15 mmol/L, 0.09 to 0.22) by RYR treatment compared with placebo. The lipid modification effects appeared to be similar to pravastatin, simvastatin, lovastatin, atorvastatin, or fluvastatin. Compared with non-statin lipid lowering agents, RYR preparations appeared superior to nicotinate and fish oils, but equal to or less effective than fenofibrate and gemfibrozil. No significant difference in lipid profile was found between Xuezhikang and Zhibituo. RYR preparations were associated with non-serious adverse effects such as dizziness and gastrointestinal discomfort. Current evidence shows short-term beneficial effects of RYR preparations on lipid modification. More rigorous trials are needed, and long-term effects and safety should be investigated if RYR preparations are to be recommended as one of the alternative treatments for primary hyperlipidemia.
Acute administration of red yeast rice (Monascus purpureus) depletes tissue coenzyme Q(10) levels in ICR mice.
School of Pharmaceutical Science, Taipei Medical University, Taipei, Taiwan.
In this study, we attempted to evaluate the effect of administration of a high quantity of red yeast rice on coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10) synthesis in the tissues of ICR mice. Eighty-eight adult male ICR mice were housed and divided into control and experimental groups for red yeast rice treatment. Animals were gavaged with a low (1 g/kg body weight) or a high dose (5 g/kg body weight, approximately five times the typical recommended human dose) of red yeast rice dissolved in soyabean oil. After gavagement, animals of the control group were immediately killed; mice of the experimental groups (eight for each subgroup) were killed at different time intervals of 0.5, 1, 1.5, 4 and 24 h. The liver, heart and kidney were taken for analysis of monacolin K (liver only) and CoQ10 analysis. Liver and heart CoQ10 levels declined dramatically in both groups administered red yeast rice, especially in the high-dose group, within 30 min. After 24 h, the levels of hepatic and cardiac CoQ10 were still reduced. A similar trend was also observed in the heart, but the inhibitory effect began after 90 min. The higher dose of red yeast rice presented a greater suppressive effect than did the lower dose on tissue CoQ10 levels. In conclusion, acute red yeast rice gavage suppressed hepatic and cardiac CoQ10 levels in rodents; furthermore, the inhibitory effect was responsive to the doses administered.
The problems with myopathy are just as real as with statins and are at least partly related to the blockage of Coenzyme Q10 synthesis that uses the same pathway as cholesterol. When you took Lipitor did you supplement with Q10 to counteract this effect as recommended by many? Do you know that you can measure your levels of Q10 in serum, which would help to decide that you indeed have a preventable deficiency, particularly while on treatment with statins, which could most easily be compensated for with exogenous Q10, allowing the important statin therapy to continue?
Here are two pertinent abstracts re red rice yeast extract:
National Research Centre in Complementary and Alternative Medicine (NAFKAM), University of Tromso, Tromso N-9037, Norway. Jianping.***@****
Extracts of Chinese red yeast rice (RYR, a traditional dietary seasoning of Monascus purpureus) contains several active ingredients including lovastatin, and several trials of its possible lipid-lowering effects have been conducted. This meta-analysis assesses the effectiveness and safety of RYR preparations on lipid modification in primary hyperlipidemia. We included randomized controlled trials testing RYR preparation, compared with placebo, no treatment, statins, or other active lipid-lowering agents in people with hyperlipidemia through searching PubMed, CBMdisk, TCMLARS, the Cochrane Library, and AMED up to December 2004. Ninety-three randomized trials (9625 participants) were included and three RYR preparations (Cholestin, Xuezhikang and Zhibituo) were tested. The methodological quality of trial reports was generally low in terms of generation of the allocation sequence, allocation concealment, blinding, and intention-to-treat. The combined results showed significant reduction of serum total cholesterol levels (weighted mean difference -0.91 mmol/L, 95% confidence interval -1.12 to -0.71), triglycerides levels (-0.41 mmol/L, -0.6 to -0.22), and LDL-cholesterol levels (-0.73 mmol/L, -1.02 to -0.043), and increase of HDL-cholesterol levels (0.15 mmol/L, 0.09 to 0.22) by RYR treatment compared with placebo. The lipid modification effects appeared to be similar to pravastatin, simvastatin, lovastatin, atorvastatin, or fluvastatin. Compared with non-statin lipid lowering agents, RYR preparations appeared superior to nicotinate and fish oils, but equal to or less effective than fenofibrate and gemfibrozil. No significant difference in lipid profile was found between Xuezhikang and Zhibituo. RYR preparations were associated with non-serious adverse effects such as dizziness and gastrointestinal discomfort. Current evidence shows short-term beneficial effects of RYR preparations on lipid modification. More rigorous trials are needed, and long-term effects and safety should be investigated if RYR preparations are to be recommended as one of the alternative treatments for primary hyperlipidemia.
Acute administration of red yeast rice (Monascus purpureus) depletes tissue coenzyme Q(10) levels in ICR mice.
School of Pharmaceutical Science, Taipei Medical University, Taipei, Taiwan.
In this study, we attempted to evaluate the effect of administration of a high quantity of red yeast rice on coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10) synthesis in the tissues of ICR mice. Eighty-eight adult male ICR mice were housed and divided into control and experimental groups for red yeast rice treatment. Animals were gavaged with a low (1 g/kg body weight) or a high dose (5 g/kg body weight, approximately five times the typical recommended human dose) of red yeast rice dissolved in soyabean oil. After gavagement, animals of the control group were immediately killed; mice of the experimental groups (eight for each subgroup) were killed at different time intervals of 0.5, 1, 1.5, 4 and 24 h. The liver, heart and kidney were taken for analysis of monacolin K (liver only) and CoQ10 analysis. Liver and heart CoQ10 levels declined dramatically in both groups administered red yeast rice, especially in the high-dose group, within 30 min. After 24 h, the levels of hepatic and cardiac CoQ10 were still reduced. A similar trend was also observed in the heart, but the inhibitory effect began after 90 min. The higher dose of red yeast rice presented a greater suppressive effect than did the lower dose on tissue CoQ10 levels. In conclusion, acute red yeast rice gavage suppressed hepatic and cardiac CoQ10 levels in rodents; furthermore, the inhibitory effect was responsive to the doses administered.
I've been taking a little of this in a protein powder I use, who knows if it's helped me or not in that regard, never had any problems there ...yeah, make sure you monitor your enzymes...don't think it could hurt you, why not try it to see if it lowers it a little?
I think you would look cute in a Friar's Tuck's outfit along with Ina...don't forget the full hood and tie belt though...leave it to you as far as any undergarments and what they are...
I think you would look cute in a Friar's Tuck's outfit along with Ina...don't forget the full hood and tie belt though...leave it to you as far as any undergarments and what they are...
Oh, yes, a little obligatory Hep C content might be needed :) Statins are processed in the liver and some are therefore told not to take them. The liver specialists I spoke to said Statins should not be a problem although I should monitor liver enzymes just to be sure. Certainly the agreement was that any potentially small risk is outweighed by the rewards of lowering cholesterol.
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