Aa
self-reinfection while on TX
It is suggested that during initial phase of tx one should keep changing the tooth brush more frequently. what are other things to watch for to avoide self- reinfection. Any ideas/suggestions?
ouch you got me...
but seriously though, when my dentist admitted the possible dental exposures, which very few will EVER admit, and he added that blood becomes airborne with sonic cleaning and is inhaled by those around...
when a dentist tells you this you start to get scared.
Especially when he looks as sober as a hanging judge while he's telling you.
After all...we know colds and flu are spread through the air...right?
Doesn't take many inhale molecules to get sick either.
but have we ever considered that HCV and HIV are also made airborne in these offices?
How many virion must one inhale to become infected? One study said 20-40 virons only but currently, in vitro, the
Answer is still unknown, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to make a teaspoon an hour go airborne now does it?
Certainly didn't make sense to my dentist or hygenist...
I'm just assuming it's because they don't want our disease and have discovered something the NIH is not too keen on telling us...like that more of us got it from medical and dental procedures than from shagging or snorting something.
mb
but seriously though, when my dentist admitted the possible dental exposures, which very few will EVER admit, and he added that blood becomes airborne with sonic cleaning and is inhaled by those around...
when a dentist tells you this you start to get scared.
Especially when he looks as sober as a hanging judge while he's telling you.
After all...we know colds and flu are spread through the air...right?
Doesn't take many inhale molecules to get sick either.
but have we ever considered that HCV and HIV are also made airborne in these offices?
How many virion must one inhale to become infected? One study said 20-40 virons only but currently, in vitro, the
Answer is still unknown, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to make a teaspoon an hour go airborne now does it?
Certainly didn't make sense to my dentist or hygenist...
I'm just assuming it's because they don't want our disease and have discovered something the NIH is not too keen on telling us...like that more of us got it from medical and dental procedures than from shagging or snorting something.
mb
The post above just gave a viron size estimate based on current science.
Let’s go from there:
An HCV viron is estimated to have the length of between 30 and 40 nanometers.
Just an estimate there as these are too small for any device to really measure.
Some may be slightly bigger or smaller than others.
Current filtering devices can screen out most virions by using a 35 nm screening process so I’ll round up and say they maybe as big as 40 nm, the high end of the estimates.
Source is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanometre........
With me so far?
OK>>>> .. <<<<<<
ok, you see the 2 periods above right? That distance between the is approximately 1 millimeter. That millimeter contains a million nanometers. 1,000,000 nanometers.
Ergo one viron at say 40nm divided into 1,000,000 equals 25,000 virons in the space of one linear millimeter.
Look at the dots again. You can fit at LEAST 25,000 or more virons between those 2 dots.
Remember the thread called “what do you think of this scary study?” in Medhelp just days ago?
That study said viral infection could occur with as few as 20-40 virons.
20 to 40 virons, and you can fit 25,000 between those two dots above!
How small then is the amount of blood then needed to grind back into your gums to reinfect you?
Can you see it? Can you detect or comprehend it’s tiny size?
I mean, if an amount so small we cannot see, nor even begin to imagine if honest, is all it takes to give the virus a chance to live in a new host….or the same old host…us….then why would we want to take that chance?
WHY?
Once I went UND I went to Dollar Store, where they had 6 packs of very decent toothbrushes for a buck, and I changed them weekly. If I changed them DAILY the cost would have been 50 bucks for the year.
Compare that to the suffering, the sides, the relationships strained or ruined…how can we even go there?
There is no comparison!
Maybe one needs to think about the alternative as possibly more suffering??
Just a thought.
Hand brushing works if done right, and it would cost 20 cents not 30 bucks to replace each brush.
For this I’d give up any electronic gismos.
For that matter, even 30 bucks seems like small change if you think about the possibility of getting reinfected or needing a transplant. How pennywise and pound foolish that will seem to a relapser heeding no cautionary tales…
I don’t know. I don’t want to look in that mirror and think, maybe if I’d done this differently or that.
I’d rather do my best now in every aspect so that regardless of outcome I can say I gave SVR my best shot!
If this seems anal well then shoot me, but an amount of blood so small we can’t imagine is all it takes to infect so what harm can precaution possibly do here.
Ask yourself this question….knowing NOW, that it only takes a 20-40 viron exposure to see healthy cells become infected…
Would you let someone else brush your teeth with something that “might” have even a hundred virons on it??
Would you let them rub that into your gums knowing those tissue cells open up and bleed easier than anywhere else on your body?
Would one do that?
Then by all means keep using that old brush….
to save yourself a few lousy “bucks”
and call those who take precaution names.
Rolleyes.
Yet I will take my brand of squirrelly precautions over the nonchalant attitude any day.
We are not scientists, and we do not understand all the methods of transmissions, so until we do, SHOULD we NOT be on guard?
I remember the day they put me under, and gave me plasma against my wishes…
And when I woke up I was furious and they ASSURED my, there was no way I could get Aids or anything from plasma. That was 20 years ago. It seems only yesterday they were that dumb…and it wasn’t long ago!
I’m wondering what 20 more years will do to our knowledge base.
So go with your instincts, and I’ll go with the current science, which only hints at, but doesn’t say for certain…
it’s not much,
but it’s better than hunches.
mb
Let’s go from there:
An HCV viron is estimated to have the length of between 30 and 40 nanometers.
Just an estimate there as these are too small for any device to really measure.
Some may be slightly bigger or smaller than others.
Current filtering devices can screen out most virions by using a 35 nm screening process so I’ll round up and say they maybe as big as 40 nm, the high end of the estimates.
Source is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanometre........
With me so far?
OK>>>> .. <<<<<<
ok, you see the 2 periods above right? That distance between the is approximately 1 millimeter. That millimeter contains a million nanometers. 1,000,000 nanometers.
Ergo one viron at say 40nm divided into 1,000,000 equals 25,000 virons in the space of one linear millimeter.
Look at the dots again. You can fit at LEAST 25,000 or more virons between those 2 dots.
Remember the thread called “what do you think of this scary study?” in Medhelp just days ago?
That study said viral infection could occur with as few as 20-40 virons.
20 to 40 virons, and you can fit 25,000 between those two dots above!
How small then is the amount of blood then needed to grind back into your gums to reinfect you?
Can you see it? Can you detect or comprehend it’s tiny size?
I mean, if an amount so small we cannot see, nor even begin to imagine if honest, is all it takes to give the virus a chance to live in a new host….or the same old host…us….then why would we want to take that chance?
WHY?
Once I went UND I went to Dollar Store, where they had 6 packs of very decent toothbrushes for a buck, and I changed them weekly. If I changed them DAILY the cost would have been 50 bucks for the year.
Compare that to the suffering, the sides, the relationships strained or ruined…how can we even go there?
There is no comparison!
Maybe one needs to think about the alternative as possibly more suffering??
Just a thought.
Hand brushing works if done right, and it would cost 20 cents not 30 bucks to replace each brush.
For this I’d give up any electronic gismos.
For that matter, even 30 bucks seems like small change if you think about the possibility of getting reinfected or needing a transplant. How pennywise and pound foolish that will seem to a relapser heeding no cautionary tales…
I don’t know. I don’t want to look in that mirror and think, maybe if I’d done this differently or that.
I’d rather do my best now in every aspect so that regardless of outcome I can say I gave SVR my best shot!
If this seems anal well then shoot me, but an amount of blood so small we can’t imagine is all it takes to infect so what harm can precaution possibly do here.
Ask yourself this question….knowing NOW, that it only takes a 20-40 viron exposure to see healthy cells become infected…
Would you let someone else brush your teeth with something that “might” have even a hundred virons on it??
Would you let them rub that into your gums knowing those tissue cells open up and bleed easier than anywhere else on your body?
Would one do that?
Then by all means keep using that old brush….
to save yourself a few lousy “bucks”
and call those who take precaution names.
Rolleyes.
Yet I will take my brand of squirrelly precautions over the nonchalant attitude any day.
We are not scientists, and we do not understand all the methods of transmissions, so until we do, SHOULD we NOT be on guard?
I remember the day they put me under, and gave me plasma against my wishes…
And when I woke up I was furious and they ASSURED my, there was no way I could get Aids or anything from plasma. That was 20 years ago. It seems only yesterday they were that dumb…and it wasn’t long ago!
I’m wondering what 20 more years will do to our knowledge base.
So go with your instincts, and I’ll go with the current science, which only hints at, but doesn’t say for certain…
it’s not much,
but it’s better than hunches.
mb
The Particle Size Of Hepatitis C Virus Estimated By Filtration Through Microporous Regenerated Cellulose Fibre
Tazuko Yuasa1, Gen Ishikawa2, Sei-ichi Manabe2, Sadayoshi Sekiguchi3, Kenji Takeuchi1 and Tatsuo Miyamura1
1 Laboratory of Hepatitis Viruses II, Department of Enteroviruses, National Institute of Health, 2-10-35 Kamiosaki, Shinagawa-ku, Tokyo 141
2 Asahi Chemical Industries Co. Ltd., 1-1-1 Uchisaiwaicho, Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo 100
and3 Hokkaido Red Cross Blood Center, Yamanote 2-2, Nishi-ku, Sapporo 063, Japan
To estimate the particle size of hepatitis C virus (HCV), a major causative agent of post-transfusion non-A, non-B hepatitis, we filtered plasma or serum samples through microporous cellulose fibres with different pore sizes. The amount of HCV particles in samples before and after filtration was determined by a quantitative reverse transcriptase polymerase chain reaction (PCR) method. Since there is no quantitative biological assay for HCV, except for that in chimpanzees, the HCV titre obtained from the PCR method was used in an equation constructed previously for application to filtration experiments with a flavivirus which is distantly related to HCV. The particle was estimated to be between 30 and 38 nm in diameter, although the possibility remained that larger HCV particles or HCV aggregates with a diameter of more than 39 nm might exist. Double-step filtration through microporous cellulose fibres with a pore size of 35 nm reduced the HCV content to below levels detectable by our PCR method, indicating that it is possible to eliminate HCV particles by simple filtration techniques.
to be continued
mb
Tazuko Yuasa1, Gen Ishikawa2, Sei-ichi Manabe2, Sadayoshi Sekiguchi3, Kenji Takeuchi1 and Tatsuo Miyamura1
1 Laboratory of Hepatitis Viruses II, Department of Enteroviruses, National Institute of Health, 2-10-35 Kamiosaki, Shinagawa-ku, Tokyo 141
2 Asahi Chemical Industries Co. Ltd., 1-1-1 Uchisaiwaicho, Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo 100
and3 Hokkaido Red Cross Blood Center, Yamanote 2-2, Nishi-ku, Sapporo 063, Japan
To estimate the particle size of hepatitis C virus (HCV), a major causative agent of post-transfusion non-A, non-B hepatitis, we filtered plasma or serum samples through microporous cellulose fibres with different pore sizes. The amount of HCV particles in samples before and after filtration was determined by a quantitative reverse transcriptase polymerase chain reaction (PCR) method. Since there is no quantitative biological assay for HCV, except for that in chimpanzees, the HCV titre obtained from the PCR method was used in an equation constructed previously for application to filtration experiments with a flavivirus which is distantly related to HCV. The particle was estimated to be between 30 and 38 nm in diameter, although the possibility remained that larger HCV particles or HCV aggregates with a diameter of more than 39 nm might exist. Double-step filtration through microporous cellulose fibres with a pore size of 35 nm reduced the HCV content to below levels detectable by our PCR method, indicating that it is possible to eliminate HCV particles by simple filtration techniques.
to be continued
mb
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